Villa fans backlash

Eastie wrote:The poster in question has been spoken to and is aware this is not acceptable-

Just to add once more -

Can we try not to refer to other issues or individuals please on other forums - we have worked hard to try and get TBAR into a friendly environment and don't really need to be making reference to other sites - thanks !

But the post itself still remains!

Not anymore !

Eastie wrote:Not anymore !

Thank you

LV, what you consider abuse and what someone else considers abuse are two different things. You've read Howard's pieces in here and maybe on twitter. Does he sound like an abusive man to you? Yet the club decided that he was out of order enough to be turfed out of the exec area.

Some people can tolerate being told to fuck off and it's water off a ducks back, other people go into meltdown at the sight of a bloke eating a sandwich in a less than gentlemanly manner.

The intent of the club here is petty clear - they will not tolerate criticism. Although much of it has been covert, the club has gone to some length in many areas to try to ensure that criticism of the management are silenced. This is just another attempt to ensure that the boat isn't rocked. And the Lions Club chairmen obviously feel it's a pretty transparent attempt and aren't having it.

Trotters wrote:LV, what you consider abuse and what someone else considers abuse are two different things. You've read Howard's pieces in here and maybe on twitter. Does he sound like an abusive man to you? Yet the club decided that he was out of order enough to be turfed out of the exec area.

Some people can tolerate being told to fuck off and it's water off a ducks back, other people go into meltdown at the sight of a bloke eating a sandwich in a less than gentlemanly manner.

The intent of the club here is petty clear - they will not tolerate criticism. Although much of it has been covert, the club has gone to some length in many areas to try to ensure that criticism of the management are silenced. This is just another attempt to ensure that the boat isn't rocked. And the Lions Club chairmen obviously feel it's a pretty transparent attempt and aren't having it.

This is very much my view on it all.

Some people like to take isolated points to try and hold up their particular view. Me? I add all the bits and pieces together, to form a wider view.

This latest announcement, by the 'powers that be', just solidify the view that the Randy and co hate any form of criticism whatsoever - even when it is totally justified, and for the long term good of the club.

Randy might not give a shit about our club any more, but don't you dare try and criticise it in any way. As, afterall, that might reflect badly on HIM. Which is what it is all about, isn't it?

In the last few years, I've gone from;
"What a nice chap. He should do our club proud"
to
"This nice chap doesn't seem to have a clue!"
to
"This chap is fucking clueless and a total bellend!"

How wrong we all were.

Was Ian Taylor abusive?

The one part we have not been privy to, is the consultation with the various Lions club representatives and the party I believe 6 of them which were somehow picked to represent all the various supporter parties, but for some one like the VST not to sign, as they believe it will take away some of their independence to be critical away, would suggest there is more to this than meets the eye and it may have been verbally communicated exactly what would be counted as abuse with rule 7.

Loyalvillan wrote:Criticism can be made in a civil manner, and do you not agree that Chairman of Lions Clubs should be capable of making points without being abusive.

Your worries are based entirely on assumption and IF you are proved right i will then agree, but i think Chairman SHOULD act in a manner befitting the role they are in and those they represent

Codes of Conduct are really big in banking aren't they? Really worked a treat over the last ten years.

Those who could afford to not sign were clearly looking at what happened with -
Howard Hodgson
Ian Taylor (does he still have a job at the club?)
Mat Kendrick
On top of which, to try and extend it to personal accounts just gives the game away, as well as being totally unenforceable eg "prove it's my account."

The no abuse clause refers to AVFc Staff - so that would mean they can't the m,anager 'clueless' which is not necessarily abuse but a fact

Has anyone seen the latest statement put out clarifying the code of conduct??


In the wake of reports about the Aston Villa Lions Clubs' code of conduct, we feel compelled to put the record straight.

The Club enjoys a fantastic relationship with our network of Lions Clubs worldwide.

Out of 20 points contained within the code of conduct, 17 of these have comprised the terms and conditions for Lions Clubs for several years.

The three additional points were prompted by comments from various Lions Clubs and have been implemented after being approved by a steering group comprising of six Lions Club chairmen selected at random and representative of the group overall.

These have been introduced to eliminate actions such as illegal ticketing and the online abuse of individuals.

In representing Lions Clubs, chairpersons are discouraged from being abusive, which is right and proper and standard practise.

Russell Jones, Villa's head of marketing and communications, said: "There have been suggestions that we have forced the code of conduct on Lions Clubs to prevent criticism of Aston Villa.

"That's not true. Constructive criticism is always welcome and debate around team selection, tactics and players is what makes being a football fan special.

"However, while voluntary, being a Lions Club chairman is a responsible and ambassadorial role.

"In keeping with our values as a family club, both the Club and the steering group agreed that we shouldn't tolerate abuse of individuals - either chairmen of other Lions Clubs or members of staff.

"For clarity, abuse is defined as targeted bullying with the intention to cause distress.

"This isn't about the club dictating it is quite the opposite. Collectively we want to make the Lions network a great experience for all clubs and supporters.

"The most pertinent fact which appears to have got lost is that the vast majority of Lions Clubs have signed up and we look forward to working with them on an ongoing basis."

The club imo are paranoid, sensitive, vacuous and deserve all the flak they get. I think they're not without credit either, they do some great work with Acorns and other community projects. All in all though their approach is rather bizarre for a football club. Ask the local press what they think about dealing with the club and you might get a better and clearer understanding than it simply being negative fans having a moan. There's something not right at our great club right now.

Lets hope for better

Russell Jones, Villa’s head of marketing and communications, said: “There have been suggestions that we have forced the code of conduct on Lions Clubs to prevent criticism of Aston Villa.

“That’s not true. Constructive criticism is always welcome and debate around team selection, tactics and players is what makes being a football fan special. However, while voluntary, being a Lions Club chairman is a responsible and ambassadorial role.”

Constructive??????? - like Howard and Tayls were - BOLLOCKS Charirman Kim IL Lerner rules!

"For clarity, abuse is defined as targeted bullying with the intention to cause distress"

In which case, the club has abused its supporters for the last 4 years.

thegaffer6 wrote:Has anyone seen the latest statement put out clarifying the code of conduct??


In the wake of reports about the Aston Villa Lions Clubs' code of conduct, we feel compelled to put the record straight.

The Club enjoys a fantastic relationship with our network of Lions Clubs worldwide.

Out of 20 points contained within the code of conduct, 17 of these have comprised the terms and conditions for Lions Clubs for several years.

The three additional points were prompted by comments from various Lions Clubs and have been implemented after being approved by a steering group comprising of six Lions Club chairmen selected at random and representative of the group overall.

These have been introduced to eliminate actions such as illegal ticketing and the online abuse of individuals.

In representing Lions Clubs, chairpersons are discouraged from being abusive, which is right and proper and standard practise.

Russell Jones, Villa's head of marketing and communications, said: "There have been suggestions that we have forced the code of conduct on Lions Clubs to prevent criticism of Aston Villa.

"That's not true. Constructive criticism is always welcome and debate around team selection, tactics and players is what makes being a football fan special.

"However, while voluntary, being a Lions Club chairman is a responsible and ambassadorial role.

"In keeping with our values as a family club, both the Club and the steering group agreed that we shouldn't tolerate abuse of individuals - either chairmen of other Lions Clubs or members of staff.

"For clarity, abuse is defined as targeted bullying with the intention to cause distress.

"This isn't about the club dictating it is quite the opposite. Collectively we want to make the Lions network a great experience for all clubs and supporters.

"The most pertinent fact which appears to have got lost is that the vast majority of Lions Clubs have signed up and we look forward to working with them on an ongoing basis."

Well thanks for that.

I think the treatment of a WM reporter last season and of Ian Taylor a few weeks back, tells us more than anything the club say. They have been caught with their pants down and its simply damage limitation.

My Old Man wrote:

thegaffer6 wrote:Has anyone seen the latest statement put out clarifying the code of conduct??


In the wake of reports about the Aston Villa Lions Clubs' code of conduct, we feel compelled to put the record straight.

The Club enjoys a fantastic relationship with our network of Lions Clubs worldwide.

Out of 20 points contained within the code of conduct, 17 of these have comprised the terms and conditions for Lions Clubs for several years.

The three additional points were prompted by comments from various Lions Clubs and have been implemented after being approved by a steering group comprising of six Lions Club chairmen selected at random and representative of the group overall.

These have been introduced to eliminate actions such as illegal ticketing and the online abuse of individuals.

In representing Lions Clubs, chairpersons are discouraged from being abusive, which is right and proper and standard practise.

Russell Jones, Villa's head of marketing and communications, said: "There have been suggestions that we have forced the code of conduct on Lions Clubs to prevent criticism of Aston Villa.

"That's not true. Constructive criticism is always welcome and debate around team selection, tactics and players is what makes being a football fan special.

"However, while voluntary, being a Lions Club chairman is a responsible and ambassadorial role.

"In keeping with our values as a family club, both the Club and the steering group agreed that we shouldn't tolerate abuse of individuals - either chairmen of other Lions Clubs or members of staff.

"For clarity, abuse is defined as targeted bullying with the intention to cause distress.

"This isn't about the club dictating it is quite the opposite. Collectively we want to make the Lions network a great experience for all clubs and supporters.

"The most pertinent fact which appears to have got lost is that the vast majority of Lions Clubs have signed up and we look forward to working with them on an ongoing basis."

Well thanks for that.

I think the treatment of a WM reporter last season and of Ian Taylor a few weeks back, tells us more than anything the club   say. They have been caught with their pants down and its simply damage limitation.

plus 1 and spot on mate.

@MatKendrick: Eight supporters' clubs removed from Villa Lions' Club website after snubbing code of conduct #avfc http://t.co/ys8dyZTXGJ

@Villa_Trust: @MatKendrick make that NINE. We were removed from Unique clubs.

MODS, not sure about copyright issues regarding me putting this here, but its a shocking indictment as to the people in charge of our great club. I dont think Vital will mind since it gets a wider audiance as to the running of this club.

Vital Villa

Well, I`ve seen some stupid and insulting things whilst following football over the years but this one really is up there amongst the very worst, petty and spiteful ways to treat fans that I`ve ever had the misfortune to witness.

This has been rumbling on for a while, Chairmen of the Aston Villa Lions Clubs were sent an email in early June with a new code of conduct and informed if they didn`t sign it, they would be in danger of being removed as Chairmen. Democracy in action...? Nope!

Please see the bottom of this article for the code. As one Chairmen said to me last night, "Shame it's come to this.. Some of the code is acceptable but the majority of points are to try to keep us in line and restrict our communal voice.. They even get the impression we are ticket touts...FFS"

We`ve been talking about it in the forum but after The Birmingham Mail covered the article, I decided as that article covered all the points there was no point me front paging this particular issue unless it developed.

Well, it`s developed and quite pathetically.

The following clubs have been removed from the Lions websites for refusing to sign the new agreement and the way it was imposed on them:

Gloucestershire.
Sutton Coldfield.
Cannock.
Somerset.
Pheasey.
North Walsall.
Stafford.
Swindon & Wilts..

Some of those Clubs I have friends amongst, top top Villa fans, people who have raised money for Charity, bring coaches of fans to games, work tirelessly for their members and travel all over the world, literally, to follow Villa.

Two, Sutton Coldfield`s Mark Goodwin, and Pheasey`s Kevin Cooper were former Chairmen of the year for goodness sake. Honestly, you couldn`t praise the guys that run these Clubs more if you tried, they are 'us` they are Villa through and through and this treatment is just shoddy. How dare this rudderless ship of a Club treat fans like this?

I don`t think the Mail will mind me quoting as their article is a week or so old now:

Bob Moore, head of the Somerset Lions, "We are virtually being told that if you don`t sign that`s it, you`re out. They are treating us like children and forgetting that we are volunteers, not employees of Aston Villa FC. I just feel cheated and disgusted. The tone is very dictatorial, like the kind of customer practice you would expect in North Korea or Russia. Under the new terms I can`t pass on tickets to other people if members can`t attend a game for whatever reason. I need to be flexible, but they are taking that away. I`ve not signed it and I know a lot of other chairmen were planning to do the same."

Mark Goodwin, who has chaired the Sutton Coldfield branch since 1992, posted: "I don`t need some jumped up person to tell me or my members what to do. We support the club because we love it and it`s a way of life and, above all, it`s our choice! We are customers of the greatest football team in the world, in my opinion, and not employees. They should be welcoming us with open arms, especially after what we have had to put up with on the pitch for the past four years! Sutton ain`t signing."

John Holder, boss of the Gloucester Lions, said: "I for one will not be dictated to by AVFC on how we run our branches and, at the grand old age of 65, will not be told to work hard for the club. My 30 years of service counts for nothing. We do the job for love. We are volunteers who put in many hours of time and effort to do the best for our members."

The insulting thing is exactly as many have said, they are FANS not employees.

The reaction from the Club shows the attitude, they talk about it as a way to stop touting. Well, when I as a Chairman (I closed the Vital Villa Lions Club at the end of last season, I didn`t feel we as a Club offered enough to be taking a ticket allocation whilst these guys ran coaches and did many events, with my drop in health I`d not got the time or energy to do events, plus some people were taking advantage of the ticket scheme! That said, it did serve the nice purpose of raising £5500 for Acorns, so all was not lost) not once did anyone even hint at charging a profit to fellow fans for tickets, you don`t need to be told that it is illegal, none of us were there to rip off members and for some of the guys who run these Clubs and have done for three decades or more in some cases (before the Lions system was set up) is just plain nasty.

Aston Villa media chief Brian Doogan said to The Birmingham Mail

"The Code of Conduct for the chairpersons of Lions Supporters` Clubs was drafted on an entirely consultative basis. Every Lions Club had the opportunity to apply to be on the steering committee." He then explains they had six on the committee adding the terms were brought into place in 2008.

"Some of the safeguards are self-explanatory. For instance, it is not a decree by Aston Villa Football Club that match tickets should not be forwarded to anyone other than the supporter who purchases them, or for whom they have been purchased. It is simply an attempt to prevent ticket touting, which is against the law. The Code of Conduct is designed to assist Lions Clubs` chairpersons and to remind them of what is expected from them in carrying out their responsibilities. The Club is extremely grateful for the work carried out by the vast majority of Lions Clubs` chairpersons on this basis, and the benefits associated with their efforts and those of their members are a source of pride for the Club."

Mark Goodwin on Facebook informed his members:

Further to yesterdays comments of not signing the 'Code of Conduct' The Sutton Coldfield Lions have been removed from the Lions Club website already, which is also totally against the 'Code of Conduct' as we were told we had 3 opportunities to sign (see Point 15).

15. Any Branch not corresponding with the Football Club will be notified in writing and if non responsive to three attempts of contact the Branch will be removed from the website and assumed vacant. There is already a new Facebook page set up so please do not hesitate to join up. https://www.facebook.com/groups/49115532201/


The code is as below, talking to good honest GROWN MEN telling them they shouldn`t steal or falsify Lions documentation for personal gain for example, or lecturing them to be courteous etc. Does that sound like the sort of way you`d want to be talked to as a volunteer?

So there you have it, you can make your own mind up, I`m personally gutted for the Chairmen of the Clubs as above, they are and always will be more AVFC through and through. What an embarrassment.

Lions Club Chairman Code of Conduct

1. You will always be courteous, polite and respectful when dealing with anyone associated in anyway with Aston Villa FC (other supporters, Lions Club members, fellow Lions Club Chairmen/Chairwomen and all Club employees).

2. You will always be courteous, polite and respectful when dealing with third parties on behalf of your Lions Club i.e. when booking transport, venues, accommodation, etc.

3. The Chairperson shall comply fully with the Data Protection Act 1998 including, without limitation, the use of data of members of the Supporters' Club and their client reference numbers; This data and reference numbers must only be used for the persons to whom they relate.

4. The Chairperson SHALL NOT, in any capacity whatsoever, sell or distribute tickets to the Club's home or away games to the general public or to any person other than the member of the Supporters Club who the tickets were originally purchased for. These tickets MUST NOT, under any circumstances,, be advertised for sale on any form of social media.

5. With the exception of when you are buying official merchandise from the Club shop or official online store (ie the Club merchandising department), the Chairperson SHALL NOT sell any merchandise to any members of the Supporters Club nor to the general public which includes the official Aston Villa Club logo nor the logo of any official Club Partner and furthermore shall not attach any other logo or device to such merchandise. The Club badge/logo MUST NOT be altered or edited in anyway nor should it be added to your own Lions Club merchandise.

6. The chairperson shall NOT seek personal gain from the sale of merchandise and tickets.

7. You will not partake in any abusive conversations towards anyone associated with the Club in any public forum, whether this is on a page that is personal to you and bears your name OR on a page that bears the name of your Lions Club (including social media, Facebook, Twitter, etc).

8. Whilst attending away games, you will comply with all rules and regulations set by the away Club and treat everyone with respect and courtesy, and without harassment.

9. Whilst attending away games, you will comply with all rules and regulations set out by the Football Liaison Officer and his team and treat them and anyone associated with them with respect and courtesy, and without harassment.

10. You will not steal or falsify any Lions Club documentation for personal gain.

11. Whilst representing your Lions Club, you will not use any form of inappropriate or discriminatory language (sexist, racial or any other discriminatory or disparaging comments).

12. Whilst representing your Lions Club, you will not partake in any violent activity or behave in an aggressive manner towards any other person(s).

13. The Lions Club should be run as a non- profit making organization. ANY profit made should be used for the benefit of the branch and its members.

14. The Chairperson MUST keep in regular contact with the Supporters Club Coordinator and must treat him with respect and courtesy, and without harassment at all times.

15. Any Branch not corresponding with the Football Club will be notified in writing and if non responsive to three attempts of contact the Branch will be removed from the website and assumed vacant.

16. The fact that Supporters' Clubs play a huge part in the perception of Aston Villa at home and abroad means that the Chairperson shall at all times use best endeavors to ensure that all members of the Supporters Group behave reasonably, appropriately and lawfully when attending any football match or function/event which they may attend to support or represent Aston Villa.

17. When attending Lions Club Chairman`s meetings, you will respect the opinion and views of all other attendees and treat them respectfully at all times.

18. Above all, you will work hard to grow the fan base in your geographic area and behave in a way that upholds the values, integrity and good reputation of Aston Villa Football Club.

19. In the case any Chairman is deemed out of line, the Steering Group will recommend any action to be taken against that individual.
The Steering Group will review the offence and vote as to whether the offender is given a warning about their conduct or asked to step down.
The decision by the Steering Group will then be forwarded to the Clubs Liaison Officer for Aston Villa Football Club to approve the decision.

20. In the event that a Chairman is asked to step down the Football Club reserve the right to advertise that Branch has "vacant possession" and seek new Chairmanship

Failure to adhere to the Chairman`s code of conduct may result in you being asked to step down.



Read more: http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7517204#ixzz39c9nH7dc

Well, now we know what the club think of it's fans. Fucking disgrace to treat people like that.
What do the club think they are doing ?
What a kick in the bollocks for all those who have put so much effort over so many years.
Sorry, but this is so wrong on so many levels. Disgusting stuff from the club and they should be ashamed.

My Old Man wrote:MODS, not sure about copyright issues regarding me putting this here, but...

As long as you credit the site and pop a link up as a courtesy (which is what you've done) it's fine.

Can this club sink much lower?
If this was any other club we would readily be taking the piss, it really is embrassing!

Dear Lord!!

Some of the comments on here having at go at Villa are quite frankly disgusting and a massive over reaction!

The club has clarified its position and i personally feel that rule 7 (which is the main issue) is a reasonable request from he Club!!

any opportunity to have a go at!

So what exactly are the 8 chairman moaning about? Not being allowed to abuse people? Not making money on tickets? I'm baffled as to what number they disagree with. Is it more a case of them not happy with where the clubs at? Not one condition is IMO unacceptable. I've no idea how the final decision was signed off but apparently some Chairman was involved in drawing up the conditions. It seems to me it's just another reason for some to have a go when there's nothing actually there. I hope the Birmingham Mail do a follow up after the club clarifying the situation after it was misquoted but I doubt it.

Loyalvillan wrote:Dear Lord!!

Some of the comments on here having at go at Villa are quite frankly disgusting and a massive over reaction!

The club has clarified its position and i personally feel that rule 7 (which is the main issue) is a reasonable request from he Club!!

any opportunity to have a go at!

So you agree with the "Shut the fuck up and whatever we do you will portray as being right, even though it is wrong." Sounds like the American influence has gone to fucking far in our club. I for one will not be told what to fucking think or do by an errant Yank or his minnions. So bollox pal, all respect for your point of view, but are we being run by fucking Homeland Security or what ?
When Football clubs start dictating what their fans can and cannot say then they can fuck off, big time.
Freedom of speech may be on the way out in Yank land , but never on the way out when it comes to this great club, Aston Villa, never.
So i take it you agree with the shit state we are in at the moment and you agree that we should just shut up and put up ?
Bollox. I am not questioning your integrity as a Villa fan at all, but, i am questioning whether you are part of this shit set up to disgustingly remove Lions clubs that have been going for years, 30 years plus, because they do not agree with this shitty, ridiculous set of rules that are designed to take away our fans right to complain when things are not right. In my view pal, if this is your stance, you are a disgrace to this clubs history, it's fans and to the rest of us who actually give a shit. I think, should you care to post the same drivel to the Lions clubs that have been removed from the official status, you will get the same response. I will stop now before i lose my temper. Utter bloody drivel and a lack of respect to thousands of members is what you are showing. Awful, truly awful. UTV.

PDC Lion wrote:

Loyalvillan wrote:Dear Lord!!

Some of the comments on here having at go at Villa are quite frankly disgusting and a massive over reaction!

The club has clarified its position and i personally feel that rule 7 (which is the main issue) is a reasonable request from he Club!!

any opportunity to have a go at!

So you agree with the "Shut the fuck up and whatever we do you will portray as being right, even though it is wrong." Sounds like the American influence has gone to fucking far in our club. I for one will not be told what to fucking think or do by an errant Yank or his minnions. So bollox pal, all respect for your point of view, but are we being run by fucking Homeland Security or what ?
When Football clubs start dictating what their fans can and cannot say then they can fuck off, big time.
Freedom of speech may be on the way out in Yank land , but never on the way out when it comes to this great club, Aston Villa, never.
So i take it you agree with the shit state we are in at the moment and you agree that we should just shut up and put up ?
Bollox. I am not questioning your integrity as a Villa fan at all, but, i am questioning whether you are part of this shit set up to disgustingly remove Lions clubs that have been going for years, 30 years plus, because they do not agree with this shitty, ridiculous set of rules that are designed to take away our fans right to complain when things are not right. In my view pal, if this is your stance, you are a disgrace to this clubs history, it's fans and to the rest of us who actually give a shit. I think, should you care to post the same drivel to the Lions clubs that have been removed from the official status, you will get the same response. I will stop now before i lose my temper. Utter bloody drivel and a lack of respect to thousands of members is what you are showing. Awful, truly awful. UTV.

I am actually laughing my arse off at your response!!    and you can help to male my point very well!!

I have highlighted some clear abusive and derisory comments about me personally! putting aside the fact you are a "founding father" this is in clear breach of TBAR rules!! and i quote

"Rule 5 of TBAR. Be civil. Personal differences should be handled through email or IM and not through posts displayed to everyone. Remember to debate the post and not the poster."

and i would not expect a Lions Club Chairman to communicate in this manner with the Club or Fans! as Chairman they must respect the role they are in and act in a manner fitting of the role! criticism how the club is ran etc is fully allowed but abuse directed at Club staff and the club itself is quite rightly unacceptable!!

now i have clarified my Position let me get to some of the quite unreal comments you made about me personally! i assume if i responded in the manner you respond to my post i would be banned forthwith! however, i will not stoop to your level and i accept your thoughts on the issue at hand!

I am a life long Villa Fan and ST holder who goes home and away! missed 6 games in all competitions last year! i love Villa with every ounce of my being and i do not feel the need or inclination to explain myself to you! but dont you dare question my loyalty/devotion/integrity! you dont know me and to be fair i have little interest in knowing someone like you if this is how you react to a differing point of view!

For the record i am friends with 2 Lions Club Chairman and although our opinions differ, we can still discuss it without being abusive to each other!

Just gobsmacked at your response!