Villa's Youth Prospects - Sharing Names and Opinions

As a fan who doesn't get to enough first team games, let alone reserve or youth games, I wanted to open a topic for those who do have more idea to share their thoughts on younger players at the club who you might call 'future prospects'. We've all heard a fair bit about Carruthers, Grealish, Burke etc but it would be great to learn some more about these guys and also other players coming through. Particularly as it seems we will continue to be run on a very tight budget (let's hope this comment quickly looks out of date!)

With that in mind I thought we could invite posters to share a few things, such as:

1) Names of youth / reserve players who you are excited about for the future
2) When you think we might see see them emerge (i.e. a few games this season as an 90th minute sub, or one for our 2017/18 Champions League run....)
3) Strengths and weaknesses (we often hear about good prospects but without a good idea of what their attributes are)
4) Other players (can be non Villa) who they remind you of

But generally any thoughts on the future prospects at Villa, and where they might succeed where a succession of others have struggled, despite strong youth / reserve careers, would be much appreciated. Cheers.

Had the priv of having Watford under 16-17-and 18 yr old teams across here last week. Some very good young players they are too.
Keep an eye out for young Mr Merson Jnr, Pauls lad. The best stand out midfield player by a long way, very ,very good. He is still quite slight in his build and will need to bulk up a bit, but his skill level is fantastic. He is a very quiet lad, very respectfull and carries no chip on his shoulder at all. If i was Lambert or whoever i would have my eye on this lad, very promising indeed.

I used to be shit hot on our youth products & watched a lot of reserve & youth football, but since I moved to Devon, I have no idea other than what a friend tells me... He does the Villa data for Football Manager & is quite harsh/realistic about the players... I will try & get him on the forum.

Grealish, Graham, possibly Robinson & Donacian are players who could make the step up. All technically gifted, as all of our academy players are (its taught from a very young age with nothing but pass & move being taught at the age of 9), but Grealish & more likely Jordan Graham should become very good players. But then, I was convinced Nathan Delfouneso would make it as he was the youth player who impressed me most out of any player I have ever seen. Shame attitude let him down.

Funny story about Barry Bannan, I watched a reserve game against Reading when Bannan was 16. He worked his arse off all game & for some reason he ended up competing for headers with the giant that is Andre Bikey... Bannan kept at it though... Was hilariois watching this little but tenacious dwarf competing against a giant for balls in the air. Bikey saw the funny side too. Fair play to Bannan though. Back then he had a great attitude & its a shame he let it all go to his head...

One name pops when the senior youth coaches are asked about players most likely to make the grade is that of Daniel Johnson . And a reliable source said that he was the topic of discussion in the rumoured dispute between Sid & IC which ultimately lead to IC & GK being dismissed . And in fact the U21 team captain could potentially be the midfield general we currently lack , as he certainly has a footballing brain which enables him to read & anticipate the oppositions tactics .
One thing I would comment on as being a negative about the Villa youth set up is that I think they concentrate too much on skill & not enough on strength . And that's not to say skill is not good but if players are too easily knocked off the ball by players from more physical teams they don't win matches

I have never been that impressed by Johnson... Im certainly open to being proven incorrect however...

Andy_Villa wrote:I have never been that impressed by Johnson... Im certainly open to being proven incorrect however...

what you need to watch for are his off ball runs as he directs others to pick up on the ball . You'll then see that he anticipates where the ball might go, rather than where it is going, so that he can support attack /defence depending on which team has possession

Daniel Johnson seems a bit old now to make the breakthrough. He's 21, never played for us and only been on loan once at Yeovil and made just 5 appearances. Cant see it happening for him at Villa.

cgale wrote:

Andy_Villa wrote:I have never been that impressed by Johnson... Im certainly open to being proven incorrect however...

what you need to watch for are his off ball runs as he directs others to pick up on the ball . You'll then see that he anticipates where the ball might go, rather than where it is going, so that he can support attack /defence depending on which team has possession

Yea, I try to watch players off the ball. Bit more difficult at youth/reserve level when you are closer to the pitch compared to where I used to sit in upper Holte, but I still havent seen a potentially quality player in Johnson. Again, I reiterate, I genuinely hope he proves me wrong... Plenty have in the past & plenty will in the future ;-)

mickeywya wrote:Daniel Johnson seems a bit old now to make the breakthrough. He's 21, never played for us and only been on loan once at Yeovil and made just 5 appearances. Cant see it happening for him at Villa.

He's been on the bench a few times & didn't he go on the last trip to the USA? . Last summer there was talk that he needed to bulk up a little which he seems to have done without going to the excess that Gabby did when he bulked up . . And last season with the poor performances & the large number of new players in was not good for bringing through the youth players . But with fewer new signings expected this summer perhaps the youngsters will get their chances . , but we may know better once pre-season kicks off !

Incidentally live matches on AVTV can be a good way to watch the youth players as you tend to get a more elevated view than @ pitch side

Thanks all, really interesting to read your views so far. I wonder if Merse Junior would have any affinity to Villa via his Dad, not sure what the link is to Watford other than perhaps that's his local club? Wishful thinking perhaps.

It does seem the physical side is really important, but surely that can come with time as well. That said, I felt Bannan never looked comfortable on the ball when under pressure even after a couple of years in and around the first team, and would just ship it on / give it away when someone like David Luiz came marching in to challenge him (8-0 at Chelsea which I went to was a particular case in point for me, in fact the whole team were happy to pass anywhere when pressurised). But someone like Scholes who is of similar build was always prepared to mix it and take a knock or two. Maybe I am being harsh.

It strikes me that even a few years ago the likes of Bannan, Herd, Clarke and even Isiah Osborne were getting game time to at least try to prove themselves, but we are seeing fewer of the younger guys get time now.

How do you guys feel about Johnson, Graham, Robinson, Grealish etc when compared to previous generations such as the Moore brothers, Vassell, Byfield, Weimann... Are we talking a step above those levels (appreciate they all had different levels of success) based on what has been seen so far?

Can we sign Paul Mersons lad please. What a midfielder that lad is going to be, already is. Class.

Grealish & Graham are superior to those names mentioned. Grealish glides across the turf with the ball & Graham has stepovers to burn. I think that at this moment in time, they seem to have excellent attitudes, which for me, is 80% of the battle. You only have to look at Agbonlahor & Moore to see how a vastly inferior footballer has made it to a decent level, where the vastly superior ability player has disappeared due to lack of hunger... Whether Grealish & Grahams attitudes will change once they think they have made it, is another matter entirely, but as things stand, Im excited to see them break into the first team. I just hope the shitty tactics & low morale/confidence dont halt their progress...

Cheers Andy, very interesting. Grealish certainly looks a great prospect. I just hope the contract is sorted out soon. His brother's posts on VT suggest it's all a bit up in the air.

Do you think Grealish, Robinson and Graham are going to get many chances this year? Lambert has been pretty conservative so far on the youth side. It sounds like Grealish at least got some good first team experience at Notts last year and it would be a shame if he lost momentum.

I would like to see them slowly integrated into the first team... Rushing them straight in, like has happened to Baker, is not the right way to bring academy players into the first team...

Whether they get game time, & how it happens though, I have no idea... Lambert is a bit strange regarding that, & tbh, think he only uses them if he really has to...

If I was to second guess, I would say Donacian will get no time, Gardner & Robinson will get the odd game here & there & he will send Graham & Grealish on loan again...

I'd like to see Grealsih Carruthers, Robbinso and Gardner used a lot in pre season with them in mind to play a lot next season instead of 5 mins on the last day of the season which will be the case other Lambert. 5 at the the back, KEA Wiemann and Gabby all stating. No youngsters will be in sight

Can't believe Carruthers isn't getting much of a mention,

I know he is currently injured but every time i see this lad play he looks a defenders nightmare.

Would definitely like to see more of him and Gardener breaking through this season.

Andy_Villa wrote:I would like to see them slowly integrated into the first team... Rushing them straight in, like has happened to Baker, is not the right way to bring academy players into the first team...

Whether they get game time, & how it happens though, I have no idea... Lambert is a bit strange regarding that, & tbh, think he only uses them if he really has to...

If I was to second guess, I would say Donacian will get no time, Gardner & Robinson will get the odd game here & there & he will send Graham & Grealish on loan again...

To be able to slowly integrate the youngsters surely one 1st need a stable squad /team & with the mass of new players brought in over the last 2 seasons I 'd expect the managers priority would be to get the new players integrated into the squad before bringing on the youngsters .
Problem has been that creating stablity in the squad/team has not gone smoothly as results have shown . Why that should be has been much debated else where but with one of the smallest squads in the Prem & outside of the starting 11 many were not fit for purpose change did need to happen . But the changes happened too quickly & RL has held his hand up & accepted the blame for forcing through the changes
But this season should be different with fewer players coming in so this summers pre season training should be more about tactics than accustomising new players with the rest of the squad & as many of the youngsters train with the 1st team perhaps they will get a better chance of proving themselves worthy of doing more than sit on the 1st team bench

cgale wrote:

Andy_Villa wrote:I would like to see them slowly integrated into the first team... Rushing them straight in, like has happened to Baker, is not the right way to bring academy players into the first team...

Whether they get game time, & how it happens though, I have no idea... Lambert is a bit strange regarding that, & tbh, think he only uses them if he really has to...

If I was to second guess, I would say Donacian will get no time, Gardner & Robinson will get the odd game here & there & he will send Graham & Grealish on loan again...

To be able to slowly integrate the youngsters surely one 1st need a stable squad /team & with the mass of new players brought in over the last 2 seasons I 'd expect the managers priority would be to get the new players integrated into the squad before bringing on the youngsters .
Problem has been that creating  stablity in the squad/team has not gone smoothly as results have shown . Why that should be has been much debated else where but with one of the smallest squads in the Prem & outside of the starting 11 many were not fit for purpose change did need to happen . But the changes happened too quickly & RL has held his hand up & accepted the blame for forcing through the changes  
But this season should be different with fewer players coming in so this summers pre season training should be more about tactics than accustomising new players with the rest of the squad & as many of the youngsters train with the 1st team perhaps they will get a better chance of proving themselves worthy of doing more than sit on the 1st team bench

Good post that cgale, on the money for me.

cgale wrote:

Andy_Villa wrote:I would like to see them slowly integrated into the first team... Rushing them straight in, like has happened to Baker, is not the right way to bring academy players into the first team...

Whether they get game time, & how it happens though, I have no idea... Lambert is a bit strange regarding that, & tbh, think he only uses them if he really has to...

If I was to second guess, I would say Donacian will get no time, Gardner & Robinson will get the odd game here & there & he will send Graham & Grealish on loan again...

To be able to slowly integrate the youngsters surely one 1st need a stable squad /team & with the mass of new players brought in over the last 2 seasons I 'd expect the managers priority would be to get the new players integrated into the squad before bringing on the youngsters .
Problem has been that creating  stablity in the squad/team has not gone smoothly as results have shown . Why that should be has been much debated else where but with one of the smallest squads in the Prem & outside of the starting 11 many were not fit for purpose change did need to happen . But the changes happened too quickly & RL has held his hand up & accepted the blame for forcing through the changes  
But this season should be different with fewer players coming in so this summers pre season training should be more about tactics than accustomising new players with the rest of the squad & as many of the youngsters train with the 1st team perhaps they will get a better chance of proving themselves worthy of doing more than sit on the 1st team bench

It might be that with the likes of Okore, Benteke & Kozak, getting fit, along with Bent, N'Zogbia, etc, coming back into the picture, & also Cole & Senderos joining, that we find a bit of room for manouvre with youth integration. I hope so, as I dont want to see the talent we produced be broken like Baker.

Desperate Villan wrote:Can't believe Carruthers isn't getting much of a mention,

I know he is currently injured but every time i see this lad play he looks a defenders nightmare.

Would definitely like to see more of him and Gardener breaking through this season.

Hes decent enough. Never going to be a world beater, but he could do a job for us in our current state...

Andy_Villa wrote:

cgale wrote:

Andy_Villa wrote:I would like to see them slowly integrated into the first team... Rushing them straight in, like has happened to Baker, is not the right way to bring academy players into the first team...

Whether they get game time, & how it happens though, I have no idea... Lambert is a bit strange regarding that, & tbh, think he only uses them if he really has to...

If I was to second guess, I would say Donacian will get no time, Gardner & Robinson will get the odd game here & there & he will send Graham & Grealish on loan again...

To be able to slowly integrate the youngsters surely one 1st need a stable squad /team & with the mass of new players brought in over the last 2 seasons I 'd expect the managers priority would be to get the new players integrated into the squad before bringing on the youngsters .
Problem has been that creating  stablity in the squad/team has not gone smoothly as results have shown . Why that should be has been much debated else where but with one of the smallest squads in the Prem & outside of the starting 11 many were not fit for purpose change did need to happen . But the changes happened too quickly & RL has held his hand up & accepted the blame for forcing through the changes  
But this season should be different with fewer players coming in so this summers pre season training should be more about tactics than accustomising new players with the rest of the squad & as many of the youngsters train with the 1st team perhaps they will get a better chance of proving themselves worthy of doing more than sit on the 1st team bench

It might be that with the likes of Okore, Benteke & Kozak, getting fit, along with Bent, N'Zogbia, etc, coming back into the picture, & also Cole & Senderos joining, that we find a bit of room for manouvre with youth integration. I hope so, as I dont want to see the talent we produced be broken like Baker.

Bent off to Turkey are the rumours going around the press Andy.

Oh yea, I think I may have responded to that 'news' elsewhere...

Potentially scratch Bent off list...

mickeywya wrote:Daniel Johnson seems a bit old now to make the breakthrough. He's 21, never played for us and only been on loan once at Yeovil and made just 5 appearances. Cant see it happening for him at Villa.

You could be right but I'd like to see him out on loan at a championship club, Yeovil is a bit of a joke club, he would have been better going to Notts County.

I don't like to come over all Emperor's New Clothes here but how many top class players has our academy produced in the last, say, 15 years? We've always talked about the fantastic young talent we have at the academy but how many have ever broken through to become established premier league quality? Cahill? who else? Certainly none of the current first team who have come through the ranks are good enough. We seem to be a breeding ground for future Leicester, Albion and Wolves journeymen. Go back as far as Vassell, the Moores, Fonz etc - all touted as the next big thing -  and I wonder how much we've spent to get such an average crop.  

Other clubs seem to produce quality players out of their youngsters much more frequently over the same period - Everton, West Ham and Southampton being the obvious examples.

Is the current stable any different?

Villa Youth wrote:I don't like to come over all Emperor's New Clothes here but how many top class players has our academy produced in the last, say, 15 years? We've always talked about the fantastic young talent we have at the academy but how many have ever broken through to become established premier league quality? Cahill? who else? Certainly none of the current first team who have come through the ranks are good enough. We seem to be a breeding ground for future Leicester, Albion and Wolves journeymen. Go back as far as Vassell, the Moores, Fonz etc - all touted as the next big thing -  and I wonder how much we've spent to get such an average crop.  

Other clubs seem to produce quality players out of their youngsters much more frequently over the same period - Everton, West Ham and Southampton being the obvious examples.

Is the current stable any different?

perhaps your correct but just to turn your question round --- what makes a top class player ?
And why is it that Villa youth can win trophy after trophy yet not progress beyond U21 rankings ? Could it be that the youth setup is ??? fine yet the link to the seniors is broken ? Certainly just before MON was appointed I was told by supporters of Hibs & Celtic that with him in charge the youth would not do well .

Is that the problem , or do we set the youth on pedastles too soon just to watch them fail ?
There certainly seems to be a problem as why can Villa youth win @ National & European level yet not make it higher ?

Could it just be that playing @ Villa is the kiss of death to players careers , certainly there seems to be a problem as the youth can play yet the club does not seem to be able to progress them beyond that . Attitude certainly plays a part & perhaps a good example of how that can spoil a players career is to look @ the ex-player who is joining the Villa TV team for the latest US trip , Lee Hendrie .