Next Villa Manager - Who WILL it be ?

Di matteos previous assistant atillio lombardo has already confirmed he will be going elsewhere. He's going wherever sinisa mihailovic goes. RDM will need someone new

De Kuip wrote:

AstonThriller wrote:

smetro wrote:
Like I say he knows what he's walking into. Promotion at the first attempt is the stated target of the owner. If he does that fine.

My concern is I don't believe he has done anything requiring such a big rebuilding job before.

I fear we will have a season of

"he needs better coaching staff'

"he walked into a mess'

"were only 4 points of the play offs"

"Lots of injuries"

"he didn't buy the players"

"to much interference from above"

Needs to get results pretty quickly.

Have to say I don't think hes right for us - sorry guys.

Well the fact is he's got experience of taking a club up at the first attempt..so why shouldn't he feel confident when 50m is apparently on the table as well? And you don't need to apologise!!..RDM is coming in whether you, me or anyone likes it or not...so people need to get used it and get behind the team now imo.

Tell you what Smetro, I totally get your point about the task in hand but I would say that's a massive challenge for anyone, regardless of who they are. I know 1987 was a root and branch rebuild but football is a different world now what with players salaries and agents, all sorts of financial rules and the stratosphere of the really big clubs. There would have to have been a star in the East when whoever takes charge was born as it needs a miracle to achieve anything at VP nowadays.  What I would say is that anyone who has played football at any amateur level knows players often go to a club because of the manager. Just because pros get a fortune they still often think that way. I reckon RDM would attract a different quality of player to NP, players that might be willing to play in the Championship for a season who would not previously considered it. I think RDM would bring that influence. Yes he needs the right team around him as well as the right team playing for him, I'm hopeful that will happen.
One thing I've learnt over the years supporting Villa is I've stopped trying to guess who is a good fit to manage Villa, we might as well just roll dice or flip a coin, cos it's a bloody mystery what will constitute a successful formula.

Really ? - I thought it was pretty easy to predict Sherwood and Garde wouldn't work. I don't think RDM will work either.

There seems to be a lot of inflating of actual reality in opinions between RDM and Nigel Pearson. When you actually look at what the new owner has said, and look at each candidates CV with a balanced and unbiased leaning, the neutral should be able to see a relatively clear preferred choice. For me, that would be Nigel Pearson. It depends what you want, what your outlook is. Either way, the new man will have me as a Villa supporter.
The new owner has clearly stated that he thinks RDM brings a more marketable profile, that he is a better "name" to promote the club in China and around the world. I'd have to agree with that. His record at a glance seems as good as we could wish for, but on closer scrutiny it does seem less good. For example, people talk of him winning the champions league with Chelsea, which as an actual fact in the history books is true, he was manager when they lifted the trophy. But the reality is that he took over in March from a deeply unpopular manager amongst the players in Villas-Boas. It could easily be argued that many manager could have been appointed at that time and the team would have seen the inevitable bounce that followed. It's not like Chelsea at that time had an average or poor squad and he magically turned them into winners, they were/are expected to challenge every single season.
He took over from a successful Paul Ince at MK Dons (Ince had landed the Blackburn managers job off the back of his work at Dons) and was there for a season before moving to WBA in place of Mowbray, again another quite unpopular figure after relegation. He guided them to 2nd in the championship behind Newcastle. His first game in the premiership was away at Chelsea and he lost 6-0. He was sacked by February of that season with the club in 17th position. Michael Appleton took over and the club finished in 11th position at seasons end.
He resigned from Schalke 04 in May last year after a run of 2 wins in 10 saw the club miss out on Champions League places.
So the actual facts are that RDM has never gone into a club and built anything from the ground up, he has generally taken over teams that are already set up and been relatively successful. He's never been at a club as a manager for longer than 19months. That should be a concern to anyone.
Let's have a look at Nigel Pearson. I have to start with his very first managerial flourish, which has its place in the history books because it was with Carlisle who he kept in the league on the last game of the season, with the goalkeeper he signed, Jimmy Glass, scoring the goal that kept them in the league! He served only 3 months at Southampton, keeping them in the championship before being replaced. He then took over at Leicester, winning the League 1 title with a record points total after having lost only 4 games in the season. The following season he guided Leicester to 5th in the championship, losing in the playoffs on a penalty shoot out. He left Leicester that summer after the then owner Mandaric invited another manager to watch the play off 2nd leg and gave permission to hull to talk to Pearson. So he left and was quickly replaced by Paulo Sousa, who had been the manger that Mandaric had been showing around. He left Hull in 11th to rejoin Leicester under their new owners. The rest I think everyone now knows.
So if you are looking for a candidate that knows how to win the lower leagues and goes on big unbeaten runs then you look no further than Pearson. If you want a candidate that is more showbiz and brings instant recognition to the club then it's Di Matteo.
I can't believe we seem to be letting Pearson slip through the net just to appoint a better known candidate. But it is the owners decision and he will stand or fall by that decision. Fact is that none of us know at this point, only time will tell. But nobody could looked surprised if in, say, a years time Di Matteo is not at Villa.

Totally agree, Dazzle.

Looks like RDM is coming in whatever we feel but I can't help thinking that we are merely adding a year to our PL return target. We'll no doubt give it our best shot but I would be surprised if we even got into the play offs.

Our best bet at a quick return would be Pearson IMHO but he would probably would not be a long term solution.

Jae1411 wrote:Di matteos previous assistant atillio lombardo has already confirmed he will be going elsewhere. He's going wherever sinisa mihailovic goes. RDM will need someone new

Eric Black anyone ?

Dazzle wrote:There seems to be a lot of inflating of actual reality in opinions between RDM and Nigel Pearson. When you actually look at what the new owner has said, and look at each candidates CV with a balanced and unbiased leaning, the neutral should be able to see a relatively clear preferred choice. For me, that would be Nigel Pearson. It depends what you want, what your outlook is. Either way, the new man will have me as a Villa supporter.
The new owner has clearly stated that he thinks RDM brings a more marketable profile, that he is a better "name" to promote the club in China and around the world. I'd have to agree with that. His record at a glance seems as good as we could wish for, but on closer scrutiny it does seem less good. For example, people talk of him winning the champions league with Chelsea, which as an actual fact in the history books is true, he was manager when they lifted the trophy. But the reality is that he took over in March from a deeply unpopular manager amongst the players in Villas-Boas. It could easily be argued that many manager could have been appointed at that time and the team would have seen the inevitable bounce that followed. It's not like Chelsea at that time had an average or poor squad and he magically turned them into winners, they were/are expected to challenge every single season.
He took over from a successful Paul Ince at MK Dons (Ince had landed the Blackburn managers job off the back of his work at Dons) and was there for a season before moving to WBA in place of Mowbray, again another quite unpopular figure after relegation. He guided them to 2nd in the championship behind Newcastle. His first game in the premiership was away at Chelsea and he lost 6-0. He was sacked by February of that season with the club in 17th position. Michael Appleton took over and the club finished in 11th position at seasons end.
He resigned from Schalke 04 in May last year after a run of 2 wins in 10 saw the club miss out on Champions League places.
So the actual facts are that RDM has never gone into a club and built anything from the ground up, he has generally taken over teams that are already set up and been relatively successful. He's never been at a club as a manager for longer than 19months. That should be a concern to anyone.
Let's have a look at Nigel Pearson. I have to start with his very first managerial flourish, which has its place in the history books because it was with Carlisle who he kept in the league on the last game of the season, with the goalkeeper he signed, Jimmy Glass, scoring the goal that kept them in the league! He served only 3 months at Southampton, keeping them in the championship before being replaced. He then took over at Leicester, winning the League 1 title with a record points total after having lost only 4 games in the season. The following season he guided Leicester to 5th in the championship, losing in the playoffs on a penalty shoot out. He left Leicester that summer after the then owner Mandaric invited another manager to watch the play off 2nd leg and gave permission to hull to talk to Pearson. So he left and was quickly replaced by Paulo Sousa, who had been the manger that Mandaric had been showing around. He left Hull in 11th to rejoin Leicester under their new owners. The rest I think everyone now knows.
So if you are looking for a candidate that knows how to win the lower leagues and goes on big unbeaten runs then you look no further than Pearson. If you want a candidate that is more showbiz and brings instant recognition to the club then it's Di Matteo.
I can't believe we seem to be letting Pearson slip through the net just to appoint a better known candidate. But it is the owners decision and he will stand or fall by that decision. Fact is that none of us know at this point, only time will tell. But nobody could looked surprised if in, say, a years time Di Matteo is not at Villa.

I wouldn't dumb down a CL win. Its a great a achievement whatever the circumstances. However how does that skill set serve him at Aston Villa.

Think you have hit the nail on the head as to why he has been appointed - he's higher profile and more decorated than anyone else in the frame. Very much like the Houllier appointment - impressive CV on paper - but it didn't work out.

Dazzle wrote:There seems to be a lot of inflating of actual reality in opinions between RDM and Nigel Pearson. When you actually look at what the new owner has said, and look at each candidates CV with a balanced and unbiased leaning, the neutral should be able to see a relatively clear preferred choice. For me, that would be Nigel Pearson. It depends what you want, what your outlook is. Either way, the new man will have me as a Villa supporter.
The new owner has clearly stated that he thinks RDM brings a more marketable profile, that he is a better "name" to promote the club in China and around the world. I'd have to agree with that. His record at a glance seems as good as we could wish for, but on closer scrutiny it does seem less good. For example, people talk of him winning the champions league with Chelsea, which as an actual fact in the history books is true, he was manager when they lifted the trophy. But the reality is that he took over in March from a deeply unpopular manager amongst the players in Villas-Boas. It could easily be argued that many manager could have been appointed at that time and the team would have seen the inevitable bounce that followed. It's not like Chelsea at that time had an average or poor squad and he magically turned them into winners, they were/are expected to challenge every single season.
He took over from a successful Paul Ince at MK Dons (Ince had landed the Blackburn managers job off the back of his work at Dons) and was there for a season before moving to WBA in place of Mowbray, again another quite unpopular figure after relegation. He guided them to 2nd in the championship behind Newcastle. His first game in the premiership was away at Chelsea and he lost 6-0. He was sacked by February of that season with the club in 17th position. Michael Appleton took over and the club finished in 11th position at seasons end.
He resigned from Schalke 04 in May last year after a run of 2 wins in 10 saw the club miss out on Champions League places.
So the actual facts are that RDM has never gone into a club and built anything from the ground up, he has generally taken over teams that are already set up and been relatively successful. He's never been at a club as a manager for longer than 19months. That should be a concern to anyone.
Let's have a look at Nigel Pearson. I have to start with his very first managerial flourish, which has its place in the history books because it was with Carlisle who he kept in the league on the last game of the season, with the goalkeeper he signed, Jimmy Glass, scoring the goal that kept them in the league! He served only 3 months at Southampton, keeping them in the championship before being replaced. He then took over at Leicester, winning the League 1 title with a record points total after having lost only 4 games in the season. The following season he guided Leicester to 5th in the championship, losing in the playoffs on a penalty shoot out. He left Leicester that summer after the then owner Mandaric invited another manager to watch the play off 2nd leg and gave permission to hull to talk to Pearson. So he left and was quickly replaced by Paulo Sousa, who had been the manger that Mandaric had been showing around. He left Hull in 11th to rejoin Leicester under their new owners. The rest I think everyone now knows.
So if you are looking for a candidate that knows how to win the lower leagues and goes on big unbeaten runs then you look no further than Pearson. If you want a candidate that is more showbiz and brings instant recognition to the club then it's Di Matteo.
I can't believe we seem to be letting Pearson slip through the net just to appoint a better known candidate. But it is the owners decision and he will stand or fall by that decision. Fact is that none of us know at this point, only time will tell. But nobody could looked surprised if in, say, a years time Di Matteo is not at Villa.

Fabulous post mate.

I hate these fortune-telling debates - all "IF's", "BUT's" & "MAYBE's".

NP's previous (highly-regarded) no. 2 is still doing nicely at Leicester (funny, that) so it's not as if he'd have been coming here with the same team.

Managers can lose their touch just a quickly as they can suddenly find a winning formula.

Let's just RDM in & get on with it so we can start debating properly about his prowess.

The fact is that whoever we appoint, no one out there has the experience of having to tackle this particular job, an entirely different prospect then anything anyone has ever done before.

The biggest club to ever grace the championship with a sick squad, with no backroom, no upper management to mention of and a new unknown owner to boot.

It literally is a game of roulette. No disrespect to Leics or Claudio but, it really is a blind luck fluke sometimes and all the pieces of the jigsaw just luckily fit and it works but most often does not.

Anyway, tier by 10k and the change on 1 and 6, spin the wheel, lets get lucky.

Yeah, I don't think there's any manager who you can point at and say they've gone through something like Villa. I'd say (through claret and blue tinted glasses) that there hasn't been a club as big as Villa relegated within the recent managerial careers of most managers. Maybe Leeds, but it's not like we can find the guy who took them back up again, is it.
()

I think Pearson gets a bit of a bad rap for nearly taking Leicester down, and he did keep them up with 7 wins in 9.

I think RDM did a good job at Schalke, and although he had a bad run at the end, he improved on the previous manager, and still had the fans onside. He left them in 6th place, and they're now in 5th place. And he resigned, because he didn't agree with their vision.

I wish some of our previous managers had this kind of integrity (clicky link!)

I don't think there is a PERFECT manager for this. I think you could look at Mourinhio and say he'd struggle, because he's never faced the situation ahead of us before. (re-structure, must win league, new owner, totally disrupted team needs rebuilt)

I am happy we're looking at Pearson / RDM type candidates, rather than looking at the perennial mediocrity the likes of Bruce, Allardyce, McClaren, and from which pool we also plucked McLeish, and to a lesser degree Mumbles Lambert.

Either one is fine. Neither is perfect, we still have a massive job ahead of us. Much rather pick a high calibre manager who has a shot than a steady eddy who can make us the next Leeds.

4BetLite wrote:The fact is that whoever we appoint, no one out there has the experience of having to tackle this particular job, an entirely different prospect then anything anyone has ever done before.

The biggest club to ever grace the championship with a sick squad, with no backroom, no upper management to mention of and a new unknown owner to boot.

It literally is a game of roulette. No disrespect to Leics or Claudio but, it really is a blind luck fluke sometimes and all the pieces of the jigsaw just luckily fit and it works but most often does not.

Anyway, tier by 10k and the change on 1 and 6, spin the wheel, lets get lucky.

Every experience is a new one, if you're looking for a manager who 100% fits the club at this moment in time you'll never find him. What any proper business/structure should do is to filter out the risks and see what's left, and choose from there. There'll always be risk of a certain %, but it's the risk/reward balance that wins through. Like I said earlier, it's Tony's club now and he can do as he pleases, which can't be any worse than Lerner. It's simply my opinion that the best way to promote the club is to have it back in the Premiership being shown around the world competing against the Man Utds, Liverpools etc. To best achieve that I feel it would be better to get down to the nitty gritty of Pearson rather than the showbiz (and it is only showbiz) of Di Matteo. The stats and records tell us that, Di Matteo brings more risk than Pearson. I hoped that Xia would bring a more pragmatic approach than he is currently showing, but that's not to say it won't work, I truly hope it does and Di Matteo goes down in the history books as a Villa legend.

echo that, RDM, NP and DM are as good as it gets for us right now and either will get my backing, I worry about the volatile atmosphere the chosen one will face and a no nonsense guy would cope better then a one of the guys type, but, hey ho, lets hope it works.

smetro wrote:

Really ? - I thought it was pretty easy to predict Sherwood and Garde wouldn't work. I don't think RDM will work either.

Sherwood was looking good at the end of the season. Then it all fell to shit and we now know why. He came out and said that the buck stoppee with him, they're his players and it's up to him to make it work.

As it turned out, he was being highly professional in playing along with the official line. A line we all now know was bullshit.

After that, the club could have hired any manager in the world and it wouldn't have mattered as he was going to be stunningly undermined.

So easy to predict? Sure.

I'm not so sure how you can predict that RDM will go the same way considering the subtle change in the club over the last few weeks.

It's being reported that Eddie Newton might be joining up with RDM again. He was his assistant all the way up to Chelsea so they have a good long association. He's also been coaching the Chelsea youth teams so he might be able to coax one or two to come our way.

smetro wrote:

De Kuip wrote:

AstonThriller wrote:

smetro wrote:
Like I say he knows what he's walking into. Promotion at the first attempt is the stated target of the owner. If he does that fine.

My concern is I don't believe he has done anything requiring such a big rebuilding job before.

I fear we will have a season of

"he needs better coaching staff'

"he walked into a mess'

"were only 4 points of the play offs"

"Lots of injuries"

"he didn't buy the players"

"to much interference from above"

Needs to get results pretty quickly.

Have to say I don't think hes right for us - sorry guys.

Well the fact is he's got experience of taking a club up at the first attempt..so why shouldn't he feel confident when 50m is apparently on the table as well? And you don't need to apologise!!..RDM is coming in whether you, me or anyone likes it or not...so people need to get used it and get behind the team now imo.

Tell you what Smetro, I totally get your point about the task in hand but I would say that's a massive challenge for anyone, regardless of who they are. I know 1987 was a root and branch rebuild but football is a different world now what with players salaries and agents, all sorts of financial rules and the stratosphere of the really big clubs. There would have to have been a star in the East when whoever takes charge was born as it needs a miracle to achieve anything at VP nowadays.  What I would say is that anyone who has played football at any amateur level knows players often go to a club because of the manager. Just because pros get a fortune they still often think that way. I reckon RDM would attract a different quality of player to NP, players that might be willing to play in the Championship for a season who would not previously considered it. I think RDM would bring that influence. Yes he needs the right team around him as well as the right team playing for him, I'm hopeful that will happen.
One thing I've learnt over the years supporting Villa is I've stopped trying to guess who is a good fit to manage Villa, we might as well just roll dice or flip a coin, cos it's a bloody mystery what will constitute a successful formula.

Really ? - I thought it was pretty easy to predict Sherwood and Garde wouldn't work. I don't think RDM will work either.

Yeah but by the same token I was convinced Lambert would do well.

De Kuip wrote:

smetro wrote:

De Kuip wrote:

AstonThriller wrote:

smetro wrote:
Like I say he knows what he's walking into. Promotion at the first attempt is the stated target of the owner. If he does that fine.

My concern is I don't believe he has done anything requiring such a big rebuilding job before.

I fear we will have a season of

"he needs better coaching staff'

"he walked into a mess'

"were only 4 points of the play offs"

"Lots of injuries"

"he didn't buy the players"

"to much interference from above"

Needs to get results pretty quickly.

Have to say I don't think hes right for us - sorry guys.

Well the fact is he's got experience of taking a club up at the first attempt..so why shouldn't he feel confident when 50m is apparently on the table as well? And you don't need to apologise!!..RDM is coming in whether you, me or anyone likes it or not...so people need to get used it and get behind the team now imo.

Tell you what Smetro, I totally get your point about the task in hand but I would say that's a massive challenge for anyone, regardless of who they are. I know 1987 was a root and branch rebuild but football is a different world now what with players salaries and agents, all sorts of financial rules and the stratosphere of the really big clubs. There would have to have been a star in the East when whoever takes charge was born as it needs a miracle to achieve anything at VP nowadays.  What I would say is that anyone who has played football at any amateur level knows players often go to a club because of the manager. Just because pros get a fortune they still often think that way. I reckon RDM would attract a different quality of player to NP, players that might be willing to play in the Championship for a season who would not previously considered it. I think RDM would bring that influence. Yes he needs the right team around him as well as the right team playing for him, I'm hopeful that will happen.
One thing I've learnt over the years supporting Villa is I've stopped trying to guess who is a good fit to manage Villa, we might as well just roll dice or flip a coin, cos it's a bloody mystery what will constitute a successful formula.

Really ? - I thought it was pretty easy to predict Sherwood and Garde wouldn't work. I don't think RDM will work either.

Yeah but by the same token I was convinced Lambert would do well.

Yes me to. He was the last manager I was enthused by on appointment. Didn't step up to the mark. Had to go in the end.

Right then; we can all agree that managers can surprise & disappoint us.

I want Dyche

I was disappointed by the surprising amount of pubes on MoN's head.

4BetLite wrote:I want Dyche

Well it's Friday night so you could get that and a mouthful of 50p pieces.

Dions_Bald_Head wrote:Right then; we can all agree that managers can surprise & disappoint us.

Of course.

Results are results - he has to get wins. He knows what he is walking into - he knows the remit - Season 1 promotion. No ifs or buts or excuses. Id say the same for anyone who came in.

smetro wrote:

Dions_Bald_Head wrote:Right then; we can all agree that managers can surprise & disappoint us.

Of course.

Results are results - he has to get wins. He knows what he is walking into - he knows the remit - Season 1 promotion. No ifs or buts or excuses. Id say the same for anyone who came in.

On top of this, if the Doctor walks the walk and gives the manager everything he needs and wants, then frankly the manager has no excuse.

Pearson gone to derby

Lewis Baker on loan anybody? Especially with RDM coming in I think he would be a very good signing.