Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

[NARLA24]

So, opinion seems to be very divided on here and other forums about Bruces future.
Does he stay or does he go?
Over to you lot.

[Dazzle]

From what I've witnessed thus far, his rolling contract would stop rolling this summer. There doesn't appear to be a vision in place, it's just been scraping from game to game and I don't like that. I'm all for giving things time, giving it a chance. BUT..........there has to be a small amount of evidence pointing to something better ahead, a ray of sunlight. There's been none. When you compare him to what people like Stam, Wagner, Carvahal etc have produced in small amounts of time then Bruce doesn't compare well. Many teams look far advanced and better than we do, and that's not good enough.

[Saunders82]

He needs to be given the summer to weed out the last of the tripe and bring in hopefully some fighters, once all that has taken place I'm sure things will settle down and we will see a difference.

[smetro]

From what I've witnessed thus far, his rolling contract would stop rolling this summer. There doesn't appear to be a vision in place, it's just been scraping from game to game and I don't like that. I'm all for giving things time, giving it a chance. BUT..........there has to be a small amount of evidence pointing to something better ahead, a ray of sunlight. There's been none. When you compare him to what people like Stam, Wagner, Carvahal etc have produced in small amounts of time then Bruce doesn't compare well. Many teams look far advanced and better than we do, and that's not good enough.

Agree - but they are at smaller clubs- much lower expectation. Bringing in a coach type manager, wouldn't work at Aston Villa. I believe weve tried it with Sherwood and Garde.
Would you in all honesty see Stam managing a successful Aston Villa next season. I can't be sure of this but thought Stam was getting a fair amount of grief for his style of play at Reading.
The only one of those possibly is Wagner - but that would be a massive gamble in my opinion.

[Guest]

"BUT..........there has to be a small amount of evidence pointing to something better ahead, a ray of sunlight. There's been none."

Didn't we just win 7 in a row or something? What's that then? Utter blackness?

[gaffer85]

I have to say I thought Bruce was a good appointment but he hasn't filled me with confidence since he came in yes he grinds out wins but that isn't good enough
We need to control games and we can't do that with Bruce as he doesn't believe in tactics
We actually played better under rdm but didn't put teams away
When we played at the start of the season we looked dangerous now we look void of ideas barring kodja doing something
We can't rely on one player the best TEAMS play as one unit
Bruce doesn't know what to do we have no style
The more you play the same system each week it will become second nature but he chops and changes every week there no continuity
Also how can you win more than you lose with less possession every week , this in my opinion is why we tire late in games as we've been chasing shadows all day
Bruce will be here next season but it doesn't mean its the right decision there is to many negatives to the way he plays
In my opinion no young manager that doesn't know villa won't be able to the job as the club is to big
We need a villa boy someone who knows the club and would give blood sweat and tears for this club
For me that would be dean smith or take a punt on Olaf mellberg he would certainly have the fans behind him and a united fanbase can't be a bad thing

[Wriggle]

If i was the owner i'd be asking Bruce for a list of his transfer targets at the end of the season, i'd then sit down with board and look at them to see if we all thought that was what's needed to get us out of the division next season. If not then i'd get rid of him.

There are some good footballing heads on the board that should be able to tell from his list what difference it would make.

[Wriggle]

Just noticed i'm still classed as a new member even though i joined in 2014... at what stage does this change??

[Villa_Dan]

Can't afford to take a gamble next season and Bruce is still proven. Despite the last 2 games we'd still be close to the playoffs if he'd been here since the summer and it was only last May he got Hull promoted so clearly the league hasn't moved on without him.

[AstonThriller]

"BUT..........there has to be a small amount of evidence pointing to something better ahead, a ray of sunlight. There's been none."  

Didn't we just win 7 in a row or something? What's that then? Utter blackness?

When one breaks down those wins, the majority were against some poor sides tbh. Wigan, Bristol city, Rotherham and QPR were all in the bottom half when we beat them. No doubt it was a good run, but when you spend as much as we have then we should be expected to beat those kind of teams imo.

[AstonThriller]

Can't afford to take a gamble next season and Bruce is still proven. Despite the last 2 games we'd still be close to the playoffs if he'd been here since the summer and it was only last May he got Hull promoted so clearly the league hasn't moved on without him.

If he'd been here the whole season his current points per game ratio would not have us in the top six. And next season we need to be aiming much higher than just a play-off spot. I'd also argue the league has moved on with many managers in the top half now playing possession based, creative football.

[Army villain]

Bruce has made a few mistakes, buying and playing in January a complete midfield, the new players did not have time to settle or gel, trying to get Gabby back to being a footballer!! . The board and Bruce need to get rid of all the dead wood, and over payed hangers on. Bruce needs to sit down with the board and owner and come up with a plan to get us out of this league, which I think they will be doing anyway. Brum game is a hard one, fans will be for his head if we lose, and we could, Bruce will park the bus and hope we can get a goal with a hoof ball to our lone striker. And agree this league has moved on with many managers playing good possession, and creative football, we do have a old style manager , just look at our team and the way we are playing, plus the subs are poor at times, rant over, just hope we win on Saturday UTV.

[smetro]

"BUT..........there has to be a small amount of evidence pointing to something better ahead, a ray of sunlight. There's been none."  

Didn't we just win 7 in a row or something? What's that then? Utter blackness?

When one breaks down those wins, the majority were against some poor sides tbh. Wigan, Bristol city, Rotherham and QPR were all in the bottom half when we beat them. No doubt it was a good run, but when you spend as much as we have then we should be expected to beat those kind of teams imo.

We did beat them.

[NARLA24]

Bruce has made a few mistakes, buying and playing in January a complete midfield, the new players did not have time to settle or gel, trying to get Gabby back to being a footballer!! . The board and Bruce need to get rid of all the dead wood, and over payed hangers on. Bruce needs to sit down with the board and owner and come up with a plan to get us out of this league, which I think they will be doing anyway. Brum game is a hard one, fans will be for his head if we lose, and we could, Bruce will park the bus and hope we can get a goal with a hoof ball to our lone striker. And agree this league has moved on with many managers playing good possession, and creative football, we do have a old style manager , just look at our team and the way we are playing, plus the subs are poor at times, rant over, just hope we win on Saturday UTV.

Sunday AV, Sunday

[deadbuzzardalive]

Not only were they all in the bottom half but they were also all on really bad runs, and Rotherham are perhaps the worst side to have been in this division for a while; we were lucky to play them all so close together; then there was the Wednesday and Norwich games in which they had men sent off.

Bruce hasn't done anything that any half decent manager couldn't have done results wise, with this team. We're so reliant on Kodjia because of the way that Bruce sets us up that I'm not sure how we'll cope if he leaves in the summer. He'll be hard to replace unless we drastically change the way we play.

[The Utterer]

I am of the opinion that we are merely seeing a team that was set up to avoid a relegation scrap again. Bruce knows that we made a humungous error in January by having way too many in comings and outgoings which put us in a very precarious position and led to that horrid losing streak which he struggled to stop actually, but stop it he did & that was a tough job, especially when you consider the deeply engrained losing mentality that was already prevalent amongst most of the playing staff from last season.

I actually think that with some more work on the squad and most importantly of all, time for Bruce and the new coaches to actually work with them over a full pre season, we will see a different animal next time out.

I also am intrigued to see what he can produce at a club such as ours which with all due respect to the other clubs he's managed, and in his own words, is the biggest club he has had an opportunity at. I don't forget that he was well groomed under one of the games greats and i just wonder, if given time, he can produce his best ever team with the resources we have.

I also think continuity is a key thing which we have not had in decades. All the great teams have it. Liverpool of the 70's & 80's, Man U under Fergie (which SB will be well aware of having been a part of it) and even teams like Arsenal under Wenger etc etc. You do not see these teams changing all the time.

If you look at Man U as a decent example look what happened when Fergie left & disruption to the management happened...They still haven't recovered even now and that is the wealthiest club in the World!

[Saunders82]

Fantastic post Utterer, you have put it all in a nutshell, lets relax and lets see what he can do.

[Guest]

Seconded. Good post.

I 100% agree with you on the continuity bit, as I've pointed out on here before. But playing the devils advocate here, one could argue that the reason they stay so long in their jobs and achieve continuity is because they achieve success. It's hard to explain to people who don't understand it, how important the continuity bit really is.

[De Kuip]

Just noticed i'm still classed as a new member even though i joined in 2014... at what stage does this change??

Hi mate - I've had a look at how to change things but not 100% sure and I don't want to mess something up behind the scenes, so I'll leave to trotters to sort. I'll make sure he tells me how so I can do in future. Not sure if it's tied into dates or number of posts tbh.

[AstonThriller]

"BUT..........there has to be a small amount of evidence pointing to something better ahead, a ray of sunlight. There's been none."  

Didn't we just win 7 in a row or something? What's that then? Utter blackness?

We also went nine games without a win, including five defeats in a row. So we all can play that game. The fact is people aren't happy with the man's style and tactics. I've said already I don't think anyone would be on his back now if we saw some kind of philosophy. But the truth is the man seems to be approaching each game with hope rather than a plan.

[AstonThriller]

I am of the opinion that we are merely seeing a team that was set up to avoid a relegation scrap again. Bruce knows that we made a humungous error in January by having way too many in comings and outgoings which put us in a very precarious position and led to that horrid losing streak which he struggled to stop actually, but stop it he did & that was a tough job, especially when you consider the deeply engrained losing mentality that was already prevalent amongst most of the playing staff from last season.

I actually think that with some more work on the squad and most importantly of all, time for Bruce and the new coaches to actually work with them over a full pre season, we will see a different animal next time out.

I also am intrigued to see what he can produce at a club such as ours which with all due respect to the other clubs he's managed, and in his own words, is the biggest club he has had an opportunity at. I don't forget that he was well groomed under one of the games greats and i just wonder, if given time, he can produce his best ever team with the resources we have.

I also think continuity is a key thing which we have not had in decades. All the great teams have it. Liverpool of the 70's & 80's, Man U under Fergie (which SB will be well aware of having been a part of it) and even teams like Arsenal under Wenger etc etc. You do not see these teams changing all the time.

If you look at Man U as a decent example look what happened when Fergie left & disruption to the management happened...They still haven't recovered even now and that is the wealthiest club in the World!

But what about united NOW? Moyes? Van gaal and now Mourinho!!..you call that continuity? What about Chelsea? City? Watford? etc etc. The continuity argument is only valid when the masses can see something decent on the horizon. But right now many don't because Bruce is a leopard who will not change his spots. And I don't buy this "pre-season" excuses. What's he gonna do that's so different from now? Tell them to play Tikki Takka? By season's end he will have had almost a whole season with the players, so if he isn't getting his ideas across now then when will he?

If people think that somehow we're gonna see a dramatic change next season under this manager and coaches then they will be in for a rude awakening imo. Calderwood and Clemence are typical British coaches, they aren't gonna do anything new and neither is Bruce. The only hope is getting some better quality in the hope that his "score and then defend for your lives" tactics can garner a few more results than they have already which might be enough for the play-offs. But automatic? Not for me.

[smetro]

I am of the opinion that we are merely seeing a team that was set up to avoid a relegation scrap again. Bruce knows that we made a humungous error in January by having way too many in comings and outgoings which put us in a very precarious position and led to that horrid losing streak which he struggled to stop actually, but stop it he did & that was a tough job, especially when you consider the deeply engrained losing mentality that was already prevalent amongst most of the playing staff from last season.

I actually think that with some more work on the squad and most importantly of all, time for Bruce and the new coaches to actually work with them over a full pre season, we will see a different animal next time out.

I also am intrigued to see what he can produce at a club such as ours which with all due respect to the other clubs he's managed, and in his own words, is the biggest club he has had an opportunity at. I don't forget that he was well groomed under one of the games greats and i just wonder, if given time, he can produce his best ever team with the resources we have.

I also think continuity is a key thing which we have not had in decades. All the great teams have it. Liverpool of the 70's & 80's, Man U under Fergie (which SB will be well aware of having been a part of it) and even teams like Arsenal under Wenger etc etc. You do not see these teams changing all the time.

If you look at Man U as a decent example look what happened when Fergie left & disruption to the management happened...They still haven't recovered even now and that is the wealthiest club in the World!

But what about united NOW? Moyes? Van gaal and now Mourinho!!..you call that continuity? What about Chelsea? City? Watford? etc etc. The continuity argument is only valid when the masses can see something decent on the horizon. But right now many don't because Bruce is a leopard who will not change his spots. And I don't buy this "pre-season" excuses. What's he gonna do that's so different from now? Tell them to play Tikki Takka? By season's end he will have had almost a whole season with the players, so if he isn't getting his ideas across now then when will he?

If people think that somehow we're gonna see a dramatic change next season under this manager and coaches then they will be in for a rude awakening imo. Calderwood and Clemence are typical British coaches, they aren't gonna do anything new and neither is Bruce. The only hope is getting some better quality in the hope that his "score and then defend for your lives" tactics can garner a few more results than they have already which might be enough for the play-offs. But automatic? Not for me.

I just don't see a foreign coach being the cure for all ills.

Bruce may fail in due course. But I don't think that sacking him now because you think he might fail in the future is a good move.

I also don't think you're going get expansive football in the championship - well not to any great extent.

[AstonThriller]

I just don't see a foreign coach being the cure for all ills.

Well you wouldn't of course because you don't appear to like foreign managers. But the fact is in the current top seven teams FIVE of them have foreign managers...so why couldn't it work at Villa?

Bruce may fail in due course. But I don't think that sacking him now because you think he might fail in the future is a good move.

Well tbh he's already failed at his first task. He came in and the task was simple..get us into the play-off positions. So in that regard he hasn't shown us that there should be any faith in him moving forward imo.

I also don't think you're going get expansive football in the championship - well not to any great extent.

Have you seen Fulham? Huddersfield? Reading? Brentford? They all play that way.

[deadbuzzardalive]

I've yet to see a compelling argument for keeping Bruce, the continuity thing is overplayed, why would we want to continue as we have been, a shift in apprach is needed. All Bruce is doing is continuing the outmoded dinosaur tactics that our previous managers have employed and failed with.

And in a strange way if we stick with Bruce I feel we'll need to sign more players than if we brought in someone like Wagner. As a Wagner type is more likely to get more out of the players we've already got, as he or someone like him would get them playing as a team with attacking intent, whereas Bruce is just all about defending and 'passion' meaning a lot of the time we're relying on moments of individual brillance to get us goals. At the moment we've only got Kodjia who can do that on a regular basis, and we might not even have him next season. If Bruce stays we'd need to fill the attacking positions with match winners like him to stand a chance, and they cost a lot of money and are hard to come by in the championship.

Sticking with Kodjia he's our top scorer with 19 goals then next it's Grealish with 4 goals, also we've only won one game when he hasn't played.

As for expansive football, compared to us most teams in this divison play expansive football, even Luton put us to shame in that regard.

All that said he won't be going anywhere.

[AstonThriller]

I think Bruce's future depends on these last three games. Win them all then I can't see the board doing anything. But if we finish with a whimper then you'd have to imagine they will sit down and consider his position? They'd have nothing to lose with him being on a rolling contract and the season over. But if he wins the next three then we'll be going into next season with the dinosaur and as DeadBuzz says we'll need to bring in some top class attackers to have any chance of promotion.

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