Will a foreign manager ever prosper at Villa?

With the recent appointment of Steve Bruce it almost seems like we've "returned home" so to speak. After having two young, fashionable foreign managers in Remi Garde and Roberto Di-Matteo. Who many had hoped would create a new culture at the Villa that would see exciting times return to B6. it just never worked out for them here. Southampton's last three managers have been foreign though and the club has never been better, Chelsea have had foreign manager after foreign manager walk through the doors and along with the backing of Roman they're enjoying the greatest period the club has ever had. Man City have also followed that philosophy while the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs are also enjoying success under foreign managers. And hey, who could forget what Ranieri achieved last season with little Leicester? But with the Villa it just doesn't seem to work.

We've had four foreign managers in our time and these are their records here.

Jozef Venglos

Games= 49
Won= 16
lost= 18
Drew= 15
Win Ratio= 32%

He was sacked after one year


Gerrard Houllier

Games= 34
Won= 12
Lost= 13
Drew= 9
Win Ratio= 35%

He left after one season due to illness


Remi Garde

Games= 23
Won= 3
Lost= 13
Drew= 7
Win Ratio= 13%

He was sacked before the season even ended


Roberto Di-Matteo

Games= 12
Won= 1
Lost= 4
Drew= 7
Win Ratio= 8%

Was sacked after spending over 50m and only winning one game

In hindsight maybe Houllier could have done well had he not fallen ill but tbh thinking back to that season for most of it we were dire. He then spends massive money in the January window and that's when things started to change a little. In truth though it just seems like foreign managers at this club simply haven't been able to make a big impact. Of course I'm sure we'd all love to see Pep, Poch, Mourniho and the like rock up at Villa park, but I get the feeling the British values that is so entrenched into this club's DNA just hangs over foreign managers heads like a dark cloud, rendering them futile from the start.

I dunno, maybe we've just picked the wrong ones? Who knows. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dramatic change in fortunes under big Steve though. It just seems like this boat needs a certain type of captain to lead it. An experienced British type who excels more in being an inspiration than writing tactics on a white board.

What transpires in the next few years remains to be seen. I really hope it works for Bruce, But I also hope that the examples shown above doesn't scare this club off going for another foreign manager either. Because I believe whilst the "British" way can get you promoted and even keep you up and give you the odd cup run. Coming across a quality foreign manager can have a profound impact on a club's entire history, see Cruyff and Barcelona for proof.

If we're to eventually achieve Xia's ambitions, or come even close, then eventually we're probably going to have to find one that works for us. As UK managers don't seem to cut it at the highest level, would be nice if Bruce could change that with us though. And obviously we haven't been in a position to attract the names that the likes of Chelsea, United ect have been able to.

If we were back in the Prem and had money to spend then, I see no reason why the top foreign names in the game couldn't do well with us. Which as I say is probably what will need to happen eventually unless Bruce proves to be better than most expect.

If we employed a good one he may prosper. continue to employ the dross listed above and - no.

There not failing because they are foreign - they fail because they are shit.

smetro wrote:
If we employed a good one he may prosper. continue to employ the dross listed above and - no.

There not failing because they are foreign - they fail because they are shit.

RDM had a 56% win ratio across his managerial career and aswell as achieving promotion he won trophies too. Remi Garde had three successful seasons at Lyon and had managed in the Champiions league and Europa league. Houllier had done very well at Liverpool and at previous clubs aswell. So they weren't "shit" before they came here at all.

AstonThriller wrote:

smetro wrote:
If we employed a good one he may prosper. continue to employ the dross listed above and - no.

There not failing because they are foreign - they fail because they are shit.

RDM had a 56% win ratio across his managerial career and aswell as achieving promotion he won trophies too. Remi Garde had three successful seasons at Lyon and had managed in the Champiions league and Europa league. Houllier had done very well at Liverpool and at previous clubs aswell. So they weren't "shit" before they came here at all.

But they were, RDM had been sacked everywhere he went. His managerial success was basically getting wba promoted. He took over a Chelsea team bursting with multi million pound players - and got em to win a few games culminating in the CL win. Ask yourself - where was RDM going if he hadn't been given the villa job ?

Lots of people have managed lyon to the same or better extent than Garde - that was never a qualification to manage Aston Villa - and so it proved.

All of those managers listed have one thing in common on appointment. Without exception they were described as 'Surprise choices' - which speaks volumes of there suitability for the post....

Now was Mourinho , or Klopp a surprise appointment for liverpool - chelsea - no - they were suited to the job....

Still not convinced ?

Ask yourself what of any of those managers done since ?

smetro wrote:

But they were, RDM had been sacked everywhere he went. His managerial success was basically getting wba promoted. He took over a Chelsea team bursting with multi million pound players  - and got em to win a few games culminating in the CL win. Ask yourself - where was RDM going if he hadn't been given the villa job ?

Lots of people have managed lyon to the same or better extent than Garde - that was never a qualification to manage Aston Villa - and so it proved.

All of those managers listed have one thing in common on appointment. Without exception they were described as 'Surprise choices' - which speaks volumes of there suitability for the post....

Now was Mourinho , or Klopp a surprise appointment for liverpool - chelsea - no - they were suited to the job....

Still not convinced ?

Ask yourself what of any of those managers done since ?

Well actually you're wrong again. RDM wasn't "sacked" from Mk Dons and he wasn't sacked from Schalke. He was sacked from Albion having just got them promoted and given them their best start to a season in the top flight for many years. At Chelsea he was sacked with them in 3rd place in the table too. So again I totally disagree with your notion and find it surprising that you'd ridicule his record and yet wanted Nigel Pearson to come here who has been a proven failure at every club he's been at bar a few seasons with Leicester.

As for Garde. Well he took over Lyon when they were on a downward spiral and had to reign in their spending. He promoted youngsters into the first team and still made them competitive despite having big spenders like PSG and Monaco as rivals. He certainly had a more proven track record than the likes of Tim Sherwood and even Wagner at Huddersfield who many fans wanted to come here.

I think Bruce falls into the same category manager as we always pick. A manager out of a job.

I really can't see us getting it right until we are willing to pay compensation for a manager on the up.

AstonThriller wrote:

smetro wrote:

But they were, RDM had been sacked everywhere he went. His managerial success was basically getting wba promoted. He took over a Chelsea team bursting with multi million pound players  - and got em to win a few games culminating in the CL win. Ask yourself - where was RDM going if he hadn't been given the villa job ?

Lots of people have managed lyon to the same or better extent than Garde - that was never a qualification to manage Aston Villa - and so it proved.

All of those managers listed have one thing in common on appointment. Without exception they were described as 'Surprise choices' - which speaks volumes of there suitability for the post....

Now was Mourinho , or Klopp a surprise appointment for liverpool - chelsea - no - they were suited to the job....

Still not convinced ?

Ask yourself what of any of those managers done since ?

Well actually you're wrong again. RDM wasn't "sacked" from Mk Dons and he wasn't sacked from Schalke. He was sacked from Albion having just got them promoted and given them their best start to a season in the top flight for many years. At Chelsea he was sacked with them in 3rd place in the table too. So again I totally disagree with your notion and find it surprising that you'd ridicule his record and yet wanted Nigel Pearson to come here who has been a proven failure at every club he's been at bar a few seasons with Leicester.

As for Garde. Well he took over Lyon when they were on a downward spiral and had to reign in their spending. He promoted youngsters into the first team and still made them competitive despite having big spenders like PSG and Monaco as rivals. He certainly had a more proven track record than the likes of Tim Sherwood and even Wagner at Huddersfield who many fans wanted to come here.

Pearsons not foreign is he ? - anyway if you want me to say I was wrong over Pearson - I will.

In answer to the post title - can a foreign manager succeed here. Provided we get a good enough one - 'yes' of course they can. (All IMO of course)

TBH - the blokes nationality isn't the issue - its the calibre of the guy we appoint that counts

OK so 4 foreigh managers didn't work. What about Billy McNeil, Graham Turner, and more recently McLeish, Sherwood etc. There have been plenty of crap British managers too so, sorry, I don't see the point. 4 is not a large enough sample to judge from.

I dare say Mourinho would do ok for us or Guardiola should they be given the chance.
Seriously, foreign managers can do well for us but its making the right choice of foreign manager and that is very tricky.

Nationality has got nothing to do with it, they are all individuals. Totally agree with the joppemeister............ We should get who we want, not who we can get.

I was ante bruce but without a ball being kicked he has gone up a little in my estimation. So im fully behind him and hope he proves a success.

Gordonsleftboot wrote:OK so 4 foreigh managers didn't work. What about Billy McNeil, Graham Turner, and more recently McLeish, Sherwood etc. There have been plenty of crap British managers too so, sorry, I don't see the point. 4 is not a large enough sample to judge from.

Er we're used to having British managers which is why the foreign ones are so few. So the British ones failing is not a surprise considering we've picked British managers 95% of the time. The point is though is that we've had three foreign managers over the last six years and none of them have been a major success. At other clubs though foreign managers prosper which is why I asked the question.

I think you've barked up the wrong tree with this stat, AT.

Agree with the others in that it's now to do with their nationality and more to do with shitness.

EDIT: Thinking on it, I reckon they'd come out in a similar order if you assigned them a scrabble score for their names. So we need to hire from one of those Baltic states that don't believe in using vowels in surnames.

smetro wrote:

Pearsons not foreign is he ? - anyway if you want me to say I was wrong over Pearson - I will.

In answer to the post title - can a foreign manager succeed here. Provided we get a good enough one - 'yes' of course they can.  (All IMO of course)

TBH - the blokes nationality isn't the issue - its the calibre of the guy we appoint that counts

No Pearson isn't foreign, but that wasn't my point was it? you said RDM was "crap" before he came here but his record was better than a person you were calling for (Pearson) which seems like a contradiction to me. Oh well it is what it is.

AstonThriller wrote:

smetro wrote:

Pearsons not foreign is he ? - anyway if you want me to say I was wrong over Pearson - I will.

In answer to the post title - can a foreign manager succeed here. Provided we get a good enough one - 'yes' of course they can.  (All IMO of course)

TBH - the blokes nationality isn't the issue - its the calibre of the guy we appoint that counts

No Pearson isn't foreign, but that wasn't my point was it? you said RDM was "crap" before he came here but his record was better than a person you were calling for (Pearson) which seems like a contradiction to me. Oh well it is what it is.

Once More....

I WAS WRONG OVER PEARSON.