Benteke...time to cash in?

FoxyAV wrote:

thegaffer6 wrote:I said this to my dad yesterday although I wouldnt sell him just yet. I'd bench him, and give Weimann a run for 3-4 games starting as a central striker as I think he's got a natural scoring ability and will get goals if played in the right position

I'm with you on this and posted about it on the Liverpool thread. Weimann is a striker, not a winger or wide player. He has goals in him and has scored in the past. The places Gabby and Weimann currently fill playing out of position alongside Benteke should be taken by Gil and one other, or use any two of Weimann, Benteke and Gabby as central strikers in a 4-4-2.

And it's nuts to consider selling Benteke.

Agee it would be nuts in selling Benteke, the problem is no competition, Weimann, Gabby are allways picked, Gil can now be the player we need to get the others motivated, I think the goals will come. We need to attack in the next two games, a all out attack. Cannot see why cleverly is still at villa ?
Also agree to start mixing it up at the front.

Army villain wrote:

FoxyAV wrote:

thegaffer6 wrote:I said this to my dad yesterday although I wouldnt sell him just yet. I'd bench him, and give Weimann a run for 3-4 games starting as a central striker as I think he's got a natural scoring ability and will get goals if played in the right position

I'm with you on this and posted about it on the Liverpool thread. Weimann is a striker, not a winger or wide player. He has goals in him and has scored in the past. The places Gabby and Weimann currently fill playing out of position alongside Benteke should be taken by Gil and one other, or use any two of Weimann, Benteke and Gabby as central strikers in a 4-4-2.

And it's nuts to consider selling Benteke.

Agee it would be nuts in selling Benteke, the problem is no competition, Weimann, Gabby are allways picked, Gil can now be the player we need to get the others motivated, I think the goals will come. We need to attack in the next two games, a all out attack. Cannot see why cleverly is still at villa ?
Also agree to start mixing it up at the front.

Another striker coming in this window would be just the job, Benteke needs another goalscorer to either push him on or to ease the burden of being the only likely match winner. In fact I'd say it's a priority to get another striker in. Come the summer the likelihood is that Benteke will be sold with two years remaining on contract, that's if the club want any decent return on a transfer fee. I would prefer a good signing or two in the remaining window that are good enough to push the team up the table with a stronger finish to the Season that might sway Benteke to considering a new deal at the club. A big ask considering the past few seasons, but one can only remain optimistic and dream!

Bloody hell lads lets get real here!!...

1. the man did not have a pre-season and when he was back he got banned...so he's effectively still playing catch up

2. His last three goals have come from his own individual brilliance!!.which has yielded us two wins and a draw...he also set up the winner vs Leicester

3. the boy is a PROVEN goalscorer!!..so why the hell are people talking about bloody "ings" when that boy is nowhere near Christian's class?

SMH people have short memories...if Lambert gets in a couple of wingers to go with Gil Tekkers will start banging them in again. It's not like he's not missing absolute sitters for God sake.

I don't like his attitude lately. It seems like every time one of his teammates tries to do something other than pass him the ball, he yells at them for it.

Maybe he is as frustrated as us, personally I think he is more frustrated than us fans, I know for a full fact that Benteke will not like been expected to create everything and carry the team while receiving bugger all service from his team mates, I can fully understand Bentekes attitude, seems he's the only one with real fight in him, the rest just go through the motions.

He just got lazy, its very sapping running channels or such like with no chance of the ball reaching you, after a time players think stuff it. Once Gil or anyone else for that matter starts getting the ball over he will wake up. We just need to add a couple more players it gives everyone a lift, especially the players.

We're lucky to have Benteke, I'd have no qualms in him leaving in the summer for about £30m for a better team, he's already more than repaid his transfer fee with the goals he's got for us over the past couple of years. Just a shame we never got to see him play up front with Bent, what a partnership that could have been.

KMitch wrote:I don't like his attitude lately.  It seems like every time one of his teammates tries to do something other than pass him the ball, he yells at them for it.

Actually, on the complete contrary, I am quite enjoying seeing someone on the pitch who has some standards - because he also acknowledges the good passes when someone has actually tried something.

I would much rather Benteke complain and show some passion than someone like Gabby just going through the motions, laughing at himself for a mis-kick. Absolutely, every single day I would rather see the Benteke attitude.

My favourite Villa team since I have been going down was Big Ron's 92-93 team, and that team was full of people complaining; because they cared, and had passion. They wanted to win. All the best teams do. Great Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea teams of recent years - full of moaners. But they won a lot.

Bring on more people with standards, that's what I say - and sadly, that starts at levels higher than the players.

Mardybum72 wrote:Does anyone think we should try and cash in on Benteke if we receive an offer?

I ask because for some time now I have held the opinion that either A) he really believes he is a cut above and don't need to even try or B) he just don't wanna be here.

His lack of movement/work rate is a major problem for us, and is currently woeful in front of goal. Fans have been slating Lambert for weeks (understandably), but if you look at the chances Benteke has wasted recently...and he gets no stick from anywhere!
People say he needs the service...he's had the services, especially on Saturday....why is he trying to bring a ball down 4 yards from goal?...just volley the fucker!

I would love to see us bring in a striker in Jan...cos Benteke needs bombing out for a while at least....

Think selling him would be a huge mistake, his the only player currently who even looks like scoring, agreed his form is off at the moment but we need to remember his still a young player developing his skills in the prem.

Apart from sat the service his been recieving is shocking, i'd be extreemly suprised if any good stricker would be happy to work 110% not to be given decent service to make something happen. I'm sure with gill providing intelligent passes Benteke will score goals.

Unless the offer is stupid then possibly but I think its best for the club if we sell Benteke in a summer window, it gives the club chance to rebuild in January it would be pretty suicidal we need him!

avfc85 wrote:Unless the offer is stupid then possibly but I think its best for the club if we sell Benteke in a summer window, it gives the club chance to rebuild in January it would be pretty suicidal we need him!

Yeah. Even without playing well, he got a great goal against Man U that got us a point, capitalised on a mistake at Palace and scored a nice goal to give us the win, and smashed home the late winner in an otherwise awful affair against Blackpool.

I am genuinely astonished that anyone thinks we should be selling him - hell, I'm hoping a new owner arrives in time so that we can keep him for a long time.

kimbo wrote:

avfc85 wrote:Unless the offer is stupid then possibly but I think its best for the club if we sell Benteke in a summer window, it gives the club chance to rebuild in January it would be pretty suicidal we need him!

Yeah. Even without playing well, he got a great goal against Man U that got us a point, capitalised on a mistake at Palace and scored a nice goal to give us the win, and smashed home the late winner in an otherwise awful affair against Blackpool.

I am genuinely astonished that anyone thinks we should be selling him - hell, I'm hoping a new owner arrives in time so that we can keep him for a long time.

I think the original questioned I posted was "should we cash in"? Not, I think we should sell!

Yesterday's game highlighted the problem that is Benteke perfectly...the bloke just ain't interested at the moment...well that's not exactly right....but he is so low on confidence it's affecting everything. He is lacklustre, negative and is never....ever, in the box.

When strikers are going through a spell like this, the very least you expect is that they work their gonads off...he has to make something happen for himself. At the moment he is ploddin around with his arse in his hands, waiting for it to fall in his lap.....not good enough.

Personally unless we had an offer of £25m plus, I wouldn't consider letting him go....I know he is an awesome player when he's on song...but he is also still very young, and I think he needs leaving out for a while....the problem with that is we have no other option. Would love us to bring in a loan signing for 6 months to compete for that position....may be just what he needs.

Okay, well, taking your exact wording into account, I still find it equally as absurd that anyone suggests we should cash in on him.

I do think people are massively overlooking that he had no pre-season so is playing catch-up whilst trying to be the pivotal point of a generally toothless attack.

I'll also flip the argument round. Look at that beautiful through ball he played for Ashley Westwood. Wouldn't it be entirely possible, that if Lambert instructed the men around Benteke to be passing and moving, dragging defenders out of the way, and generally being more dynamic in the final third, that it would help Benteke - or Kozak when he is back - as the head point of the front 6?

Benteke will be just fine, he's a major asset to the club and I for one will be gutted when he goes, regardless of whatever money we get for him.

When I think about Benteke's play it's his first touch that often let's him down, and his first touch was a real feature of his game when he was at his best for us. So I agree with Kimbo, he's got what it takes and when he has a bit of luck his confidence will come flooding back.

kimbo wrote:Okay, well, taking your exact wording into account, I still find it equally as absurd that anyone suggests we should cash in on him.

I do think people are massively overlooking that he had no pre-season so is playing catch-up whilst trying to be the pivotal point of a generally toothless attack.

I'll also flip the argument round. Look at that beautiful through ball he played for Ashley Westwood. Wouldn't it be entirely possible, that if Lambert instructed the men around Benteke to be passing and moving, dragging defenders out of the way, and generally being more dynamic in the final third, that it would help Benteke - or Kozak when he is back - as the head point of the front 6?

Benteke will be just fine, he's a major asset to the club and I for one will be gutted when he goes, regardless of whatever money we get for him.

I'm not being argumentative....honest, and don't take this the wrong way....but if any of my under 16s couldn't have made that pass to Westwood I would have been gutted....he basically passed a ball 20 yards into an empty half of the pitch....there was little ability required.

Yes, it was a good pass and yes it set Westwood away, but it wasn't in the same league as Bacuna's pass to Hutton for the Weimann goal for instance!

The point you make about no pre-season is a valid one, but we are now into February pretty much....the lack of pre-season was a far stronger argument last October/November.

We need a player to come in and push for that shirt....competition for a start will be the kick up the arse he needs.

kimbo wrote:Okay, well, taking your exact wording into account, I still find it equally as absurd that anyone suggests we should cash in on him.

I do think people are massively overlooking that he had no pre-season so is playing catch-up whilst trying to be the pivotal point of a generally toothless attack.

I'll also flip the argument round. Look at that beautiful through ball he played for Ashley Westwood. Wouldn't it be entirely possible, that if Lambert instructed the men around Benteke to be passing and moving, dragging defenders out of the way, and generally being more dynamic in the final third, that it would help Benteke - or Kozak when he is back - as the head point of the front 6?

Benteke will be just fine, he's a major asset to the club and I for one will be gutted when he goes, regardless of whatever money we get for him.

...and one other thing, sorry.

Your point about lack of movement...spot on.

Problem is, Benteke's movement is the most important of thse front 6....the players in behind him can go wherever they like...but if Benteke continues to basically take root in the middle of the pitch....then so do the opposing defenders.....he has to be the one that drags the centre backs out of position for the likes of Gil, Cleverley, Weimann to exploit....

Bringing in a coach to work on his movement would be a shrewd move, cos the bloke just hasn't got a clue....since we stopped pumping endless long balls to him, he's been totally ineffective, and it's down to his lack of movement...I reckon I could mark him at the moment...he's a standing target.

His movement previously was very good - he'd drop wide and short to collect the ball and carry it forwards. He's not doing this now, he's stood waiting for the ball to be given to him. Is this an attitude problem? Lack of confidence? What he's being told to do by the manager?

Villa_Dan wrote:His movement previously was very good - he'd drop wide and short to collect the ball and carry it forwards. He's not doing this now, he's stood waiting for the ball to be given to him. Is this an attitude problem? Lack of confidence? What he's being told to do by the manager?

I think he's genuinely confused by the lack of space. If you think about it, in all the time he's been at Villa we've played hoof ball or to be a bit kinder we played a long ball game. He had acres of space up front on his own and to his credit he often "owned" that space.

When we switched to possession football he still had some space around him because Lambert wasn't allowing the midfielders to get in front of the ball.

Now we mix up early ball with possession, and Lambert has told the midfielders to get forward and make runs into the box, so there's a bit of a free for all going on when it comes to positional play in the box and Benteke seem's to be the one who's struggling to adjust.

He's a good, potentially great striker and I'm sure he will adjust, it just seems to be taking him some time to do so.

Fair enough, maybe the pass just looked a lot better from the Holte, I haven't watched the highlights yet. My general point about movement though is that while Benteke isn't at his best, that's likely down to him and hopefully just a temporary issue. Where as the midfielders not getting past the strikers... well in all fairness to Lambert, that's been a problem pretty much since John feckin' Gregory was in charge! Genuinely, and I'm going off on a tangent here, since Ian Taylor, how many midfielders have we had that ran past the forwards and got on the end of things? I suppose Sidwell did it a bit, Milner to an extent, Barry sort of but he wasn't quick enough to be overly effective at it, Gary Gardner isn't bad at it, but generally, we haven't had anywhere near enough of midfielders doing it. 

Anyway, back on topic - yes Benteke isn't helping himself but I'd say his movement isn't *more* important when you take into account that he has three midfielders behind him standing in a row and two wide men playing in bloody tram lines, then he could be running around like a blue arsed fly and it wouldn't really matter. Which maybe he's come to realise, and that is the problem.

On another tangent - that is why Carles Gil is a breath of fresh air.

Back again, and we're never going to agree on this, which is fine, we don't have to, life would be boring if we did! To me, we have a player who has enormous talent, didn't have a pre-season - and I have seen plenty of players down the years struggle all season after not having a pre-season, so again we won't be seeing eye to eye on it, which is also fine. The lad is someone we should be looking to build around if we have any ambition, and I stand by my original point - I find the idea that we should be cashing in on him to be an absurd one.

One, if we had a better chairman, I'd trust it to be reinvested. But I don't.
Two, if we had a better manager, I'd trust him to invest what he was given wisely and develop the squad. But I don't.
Three, if I believed there were enough gettable options out there I'd be more relaxed about him leaving. But I don't.
Four, alternatively, if I believed we had enough quality in our squad to handle him leaving, I'd be more relaxed about it. But I really, REALLY don't!
Five, and finally, I think we have a hell of a talent on our hands, and I don't want any 'helluva talent' level players to go anywhere, simple as that really.

Anyway it's cool man, I don't think you're being argumentative at all bud, I think you're debating your point like an adult, which is all I want to see on here, so it's all good  

nice one kimbo.....good points raised my friend.

Benteke isn't dropping wide and short to get the ball because he's finding Weimann or Gabby in his space therethere and so a defender is also there meaning there isn't space to simply take the ball, turn, and run at the defence.

I do wonder if a large part of it is that teams have learned how to nullify him a lot better thus pushing him into new territory as a player which he is clearly struggling with. If we had another big threat up front instead of a bunch of players who score once every 8 to 10 games it would be a big help as it would if we had midfielders who score more than once a year...

Benteke has to work harder to find the ball yes teams will double up but he has the physique to bully. I am a big fan but lately he is not working hard enough needs to get back to when he first started scoring.

mefromhere wrote:Benteke isn't dropping wide and short to get the ball because he's finding Weimann or Gabby in his space therethere and so a defender is also there meaning there isn't space to simply take the ball, turn, and run at the defence.

Disagree. That may happen occasionally, but Gabby and Weimann drop deep into midfield when we don't have the ball....then when we do retrieve it, Benteke is usually on his own up the pitch....but he doesn't move....so no early ball forward is on, therefore the likes of Cleverley and Westwood have to come inside and any momentum is lost