Benteke-less! How can SID & PL get us scoring again?

It has become apparent that the Lion has lost it's teeth since Benteke got injured.

For me our survival could (Barring other teams losing etc) depend on whether or not SID & PL can find a way to make us threatening and get us scoring goals again!

It is no coincidence that our results have sunk to new depths since Benteke tore his Achilles. Our main threat all season has been our ability to break on teams quickly and intelligently (On occasion). We had the pace of Gabby, the physique and brains of Benteke and the endevour of Weimann but Benteke was the main threat by far and also the main brains in that threesome in my opinion so it is like we have lost three players up front... Our intelligent one, our targetman and our most lethal finisher!! No wonder we have struggled to score without him.

Teams have rumbled this and now know that if they attack our dodgy defence they will 90% of the time outscore us and this has resulted in the regular 4-1 hammerings we are suffering.

So what on Earth can SID & PL come up with to make us a threat again? If they can conjure something up we may just catch a team out whether it be Hull, City or Spurs as they will surely be going for our jugular... They need to find a way as our survival may well depend on it!

[u]Player name ---- Endevour-----Pace----Power-----Finishing-----Heading....Intelligence

Weiman...................8............6.........7............4 ............4............6
Gabby.....................7.............9.........7............5............4............4
Holt.......................6.............4.........8...........6............7..............6
Albrighton................8............6..........6...........3............4.............7

That's my take on our strikers and you can see we have little Ariel threat and have lost our pace a touch which severely affects our counter attacking ability also our finishing is very poor. The main things you need in strikers is surely Finishing ability, Heading ability & pace.. we are pretty weak on all of those now.

Now add Benteke

Benteke.................7...............7.........10...........8/9.........9..........8


Clear to see what has happened.

So any idea's to help our SID & PL? Maybe utilise the squad / young players?

Kozak was an unfortunate injury too, I thought he could do well for us this season.

Weimann causes trouble but has lost the ability to score. I'd start Robinson and Holt up front with Albrighton and let them have more of a free rein rather than sticking stringently to left, middle and right. 4-4-2 with Delph, Westwood, El Al and Albrighton and Robinson and Holt up front. Robinson has the movement I think Holt (and the four behind) can spot.

I still want to see Helenius, I thought he looked promising but he's clearly done something wrong. Maybe had he not taken the shot at goal with his shorts down he would have won a penalty and Lambert hasn't forgiven him? Who knows.

For me our problem is not in the striker department but in the midfield. Playing 3 in midfield while leaving 3 up top with little width is killing us IMO. Here is what I would play V Hull (from midfield onwards)

----------Westwood-----KEA--------

--Albrighton---------------------Gabby

-----------------Delph----------------

---------------Weimann/Holt---------

A 5 man midfield would start to make us a lot more competitive in the middle of the park. Albrighton and Gabby provide the width with KEA and Westwood staying in a more defensive position to help out the defence. KEA can then move forward just behind Delph when we start to attack. I would probably start Weimann up top purely for his workrate, however we can use Holt if we are using the channels more and are looking for a target man in the box. Put Bennett on the left mid if Gabby's delivery is an issue.

I will reiterate that the current 4-3-3 does NOT work. Weimann is out of position and ineffective and Albie if anything needs to be pushed further out wide with an opportunity to take on his man. The current system offers us no width whatsoever and opponents can easily read our attacks and nullify the threat. The formation I proposed gives us more options in the area of the pitch which really matters.

For me he has to play Weimann upfront. I know he's been playing pretty bad for a while now but the fact is he has not really been given a shot in his favoured position. Gabby when playing upfront on his own is not effective, he does not make the right runs he does not hold the ball up at all. He needs a partner to preoccupy the opposition defenders so he can sneak in behind the line. I know Weimann aint the type of striker who will hold up the ball and maybe is not the best foil for Gabby. But I feel like he gets in good positions when you least expect it and chances fall to him, like against Palace the other week. You also know he will work hard and press from the front which is something we are really lacking.

Holt is a waste of space, I would not even have him on the pitch.

Id play 4312 with Gabby and Weimann, Albrighton in a sort of 'free' role - hes not a no 10 but he can exploit either flanks when the opportunities arise.

Benteke is a huge player for Villa no doubt but he has been part of many poor performances this season also including 2 of the 3 4-1 defeats you have mentioned..
A lack of running off the ball and teams working us out is the main enemy here

Benteke turned the game against Norwich - had we lost that we would be as good as down by now- Weimann. Has done nothing to justify a regular place this season and gabby has lived on past reputation .

Eastie wrote:Benteke turned the game against Norwich - had we lost that we would be as good as down by now- Weimann.  Has done nothing to justify a regular place this season and gabby has lived on past reputation .

Weimann is a known drinker and it's caught up with him. Got his nice new contract and his application has dropped off badly this season yet Lambert keeps picking him. He is a good player but someone who is woefully out of form so should be rested. Still think Grealish would have been very useful this season and could have games under his belt by now in the Premiership.

Tomy-Flemba wrote:For me our problem is not in the striker department but in the midfield. Playing 3 in midfield while leaving 3 up top with little width is killing us IMO. Here is what I would play V Hull (from midfield onwards)

----------Westwood-----KEA--------

--Albrighton---------------------Gabby

-----------------Delph----------------

---------------Weimann/Holt---------

A 5 man midfield would start to make us a lot more competitive in the middle of the park. Albrighton and Gabby provide the width with KEA and Westwood staying in a more defensive position to help out the defence. KEA can then move forward just behind Delph when we start to attack. I would probably start Weimann up top purely for his workrate, however we can use Holt if we are using the channels more and are looking for a target man in the box. Put Bennett on the left mid if Gabby's delivery is an issue.

I will reiterate that the current 4-3-3 does NOT work. Weimann is out of position and ineffective and Albie if anything needs to be pushed further out wide with an opportunity to take on his man. The current system offers us no width whatsoever and opponents can easily read our attacks and nullify the threat. The formation I proposed gives us more options in the area of the pitch which really matters.

I think too much is made of formations, in modern football you have to be fluid in attack. As long as you keep your defensive shape it does not matter so much what the attacking formation is. 451 as you described with a slight adjustment is a 4231 with another slight adjustment is a 433. But you're right that we need bodies in the midfield, I dont think we do 442 well.

Kill@r33 wrote:

Tomy-Flemba wrote:For me our problem is not in the striker department but in the midfield. Playing 3 in midfield while leaving 3 up top with little width is killing us IMO. Here is what I would play V Hull (from midfield onwards)

----------Westwood-----KEA--------

--Albrighton---------------------Gabby

-----------------Delph----------------

---------------Weimann/Holt---------

A 5 man midfield would start to make us a lot more competitive in the middle of the park. Albrighton and Gabby provide the width with KEA and Westwood staying in a more defensive position to help out the defence. KEA can then move forward just behind Delph when we start to attack. I would probably start Weimann up top purely for his workrate, however we can use Holt if we are using the channels more and are looking for a target man in the box. Put Bennett on the left mid if Gabby's delivery is an issue.

I will reiterate that the current 4-3-3 does NOT work. Weimann is out of position and ineffective and Albie if anything needs to be pushed further out wide with an opportunity to take on his man. The current system offers us no width whatsoever and opponents can easily read our attacks and nullify the threat. The formation I proposed gives us more options in the area of the pitch which really matters.

I think too much is made of formations, in modern football you have to be fluid in attack. As long as you keep your defensive shape it does not matter so much what the attacking formation is. 451 as you described with a slight adjustment is a 4231 with another slight adjustment is a 433. But you're right that we need bodies in the midfield, I dont think we do 442 well.

Ball watching, being static hence leaving little to no options for the man on the ball has been and continues to be our main problem. We don't seem to understand that running off the ball gives options and drags defenders out of position. Our diabolical defending is the other main reason for our woes.. These are basics and we are not good at either hence 16 points from 21 games and the likes of Fulham doing the double over us.

Lambert doesnt seem to realise that Gabby > Weimann as LW and Weimann > Gabby as CF. It would be the easiest thing in the world for Lambert to just switch them around so why doesnt he? Does he have no faith in Gabby's defensively? I dont think anyone can say Gabby doesnt put a shift in when asked to do a job on the wing. Does he not trust Weimann upfront? Then why have him in the team at all? From an attacking point of view he offers very little on the left, a bit more on the right but he cant play there now Albrighton has found some sort of form.

HH 8166 wrote:

Kill@r33 wrote:

Tomy-Flemba wrote:For me our problem is not in the striker department but in the midfield. Playing 3 in midfield while leaving 3 up top with little width is killing us IMO. Here is what I would play V Hull (from midfield onwards)

----------Westwood-----KEA--------

--Albrighton---------------------Gabby

-----------------Delph----------------

---------------Weimann/Holt---------

A 5 man midfield would start to make us a lot more competitive in the middle of the park. Albrighton and Gabby provide the width with KEA and Westwood staying in a more defensive position to help out the defence. KEA can then move forward just behind Delph when we start to attack. I would probably start Weimann up top purely for his workrate, however we can use Holt if we are using the channels more and are looking for a target man in the box. Put Bennett on the left mid if Gabby's delivery is an issue.

I will reiterate that the current 4-3-3 does NOT work. Weimann is out of position and ineffective and Albie if anything needs to be pushed further out wide with an opportunity to take on his man. The current system offers us no width whatsoever and opponents can easily read our attacks and nullify the threat. The formation I proposed gives us more options in the area of the pitch which really matters.

I think too much is made of formations, in modern football you have to be fluid in attack. As long as you keep your defensive shape it does not matter so much what the attacking formation is. 451 as you described with a slight adjustment is a 4231 with another slight adjustment is a 433. But you're right that we need bodies in the midfield, I dont think we do 442 well.

Ball watching, being static hence leaving little to no options for the man on the ball has been and continues to be our main problem. We don't seem to understand that running off the ball gives options and drags defenders out of position. Our diabolical defending is the other main reason for our woes.. These are basics and we are not good at either hence 16 points from 21 games and the likes of Fulham doing the double over us.

Correct from both of you. But keeping in mind that this has been happening all season do you really think they are suddenly going to be able to manage it on Saturday? Keeping this in mind I put more men in midfield in the vain hope that it may give us more options but like you said without players willing to make runs and mix it up a bit we will always struggle to score goals.

Because of how the team has been built we need to play with a target man and a forward who has pace. I would stick Tonev on the left and Albrighton on the right

Guzan
Bacuna/Lowton Vlaar Baker Bertrand

Clark. Westwood

Albrighton. Holt. Tonev

Gabby


I put Clark in because he is a big lad who can tackle and pass, when he played DM before i thought he looked alright.

Baker is in by default i give him maximum points for effort and blocking and tackling he just cannot pass and has zero composure on the ball.

I would play Holt or Bowery simply because the team has been built around Benteke and the team look lost without a target man. We lost a lot of balls against Southampton because Guzan was hoofing it and our forward line were too small.

Morgan that looks very interesting. We need to change, the 4-3-3 is gone stale.

I have always maintained that Gabby is a brilliant lone striker. He was lethal there under MON. With support behind him he can cause all sorts of problems running onto through balls.

The thing is Hull will most definitely put bodies behind the ball and ask the question 'can you break us down?'. This is where Villa has struggled most this season so cant see it being any different this time around. Hull have been playing 352 away for the most part which is effectively 5 a the back when defending like that. There will be no space and getting wide will be difficult. To the point that the only way we can go wide is with our fullbacks and that makes us rife to the counter attack which Hull are decent at with Long upfront.

Our best chance to score is if we get lucky or something falls for us. Failing that if we counter their counter, almohamady has a tendency to get caught up the pitch so we can exploit that left back area.

Farrell_10 wrote:Morgan that looks very interesting. We need to change, the 4-3-3 is gone stale.

I have always maintained that Gabby is a brilliant lone striker. He was lethal there under MON. With support behind him he can cause all sorts of problems running onto through balls.

Holt or Bowery knocking on balls for Gabby would put us in a better position of attack.

Feel Tonev played well against Fulham and deserves a shot in the team he has a really good cross on him as well. With him and Albrighton attacking with the support of the full backs i feel we could get a result from the game. We have a better chance if Lambert is no where near VP i just feel he has lost the support of everyone. If had any dignity he would resign, seems strange how when he arrived he wanted players who were not flash and money orientated to play for the club yet he is holding out for a big payment that would ruin his career. I digress

Set us up to attack, unless we score we are fucked and we really need more than one as we can't defend.

Morgan Villa wrote:

Farrell_10 wrote:Morgan that looks very interesting. We need to change, the 4-3-3 is gone stale.

I have always maintained that Gabby is a brilliant lone striker. He was lethal there under MON. With support behind him he can cause all sorts of problems running onto through balls.

Holt or Bowery knocking on balls for Gabby would put us in a better position of attack.

Feel Tonev played well against Fulham and deserves a shot in the team he has a really good cross on him as well.  With him and Albrighton attacking with the support of the full backs i feel we could get a result from the game.  We have a better chance if Lambert is no where near VP i just feel he has lost the support of everyone. If had any dignity he would resign, seems strange how when he arrived he wanted players who were not flash and money orientated to play for the club yet he is holding out for a big payment that would ruin his career. I digress

Always been an inconsistent hypocrite.. Booted Holman out for saying in Jan 2013 we needed experience then a year later in Jan 2014 what does our genius manager say.. "We need experience". Lerner is a fool keeping him in the fold for this critical game.

Farrell_10 wrote:Morgan that looks very interesting. We need to change, the 4-3-3 is gone stale.

I have always maintained that Gabby is a brilliant lone striker. He was lethal there under MON. With support behind him he can cause all sorts of problems running onto through balls.

Most the time he was playing with Carew? I remember him playing there on a few occasions eg against Man Utd away when he had a blinder and scored the winning goal. On those occasions he had the service from Young and Milner and also the through balls from Petrov and Barry, we dont have anything like that quality nowadays.

Personally I dont like him as a lone striker as 1) he cant hold the ball up 2) he doesnt make enough runs, and is almost static as if he is expected to stay in a certain area of the pitch. I definitely prefer him wide on the left because he can make use of that pace esp on the counter, and will get up and down the wing all day.

Kill@r33 wrote:

Farrell_10 wrote:Morgan that looks very interesting. We need to change, the 4-3-3 is gone stale.

I have always maintained that Gabby is a brilliant lone striker. He was lethal there under MON. With support behind him he can cause all sorts of problems running onto through balls.

Most the time he was playing with Carew? I remember him playing there on a few occasions eg against Man Utd away when he had a blinder and scored the winning goal. On those occasions he had the service from Young and Milner and also the through balls from Petrov and Barry, we dont have anything like that quality nowadays.

Personally I dont like him as a lone striker as 1) he cant hold the ball up 2) he doesnt make enough runs, and is almost static as if he is expected to stay in a certain area of the pitch. I definitely prefer him wide on the left because he can make use of that pace esp on the counter, and will get up and down the wing all day.

I feel Gabby will turn up on Saturday. Thought Wiemann looked great last year this year he has only performed well when he was a sub. I am still getting over the miss against Newcastle at the start of the season. He was my sons favourte player until that miss, he has not been mentioned since lol

Lerner is a fool and he is proving that by keeping Lambert on.

Morgan Villa wrote:Lerner is a fool and he is proving that by keeping Lambert on.  

I think he proved his football credentials when he employed McLeish and made him to 20th highest paid manager in world football.

as Mike Bassett would say  "four four fuckin two "

Aren't Agbonlahor & Wiemann centre forwards not wide forwards , stuff Hulls formation , let these two keep a minimum 3 defenders occupied , we need width, we need tempo, we need pace , we need to be brave enough to try & win the game, not try and contain for a draw !

How often to we keep a clean sheet, we will need to score at least two to have any chance of winning Saturday !

---------------------------- Guzan------------------

Lowton--------------Vlaar---------Clarke---------Luna

Marc---------------Westwood-------Delph---------Bertrand

----------------Wiemann----------Gabby

VillaBill wrote:as Mike Bassett would say  "four four fuckin two "

Aren't Agbonlahor & Wiemann centre forwards not wide forwards , stuff Hulls formation , let these two keep a minimum 3 defenders occupied , we need width, we need tempo, we need pace , we need to be brave enough to try & win the game, not try and contain for a draw !

How often to we keep a clean sheet, we will need to score at least two to have any chance of winning Saturday !

---------------------------- Guzan------------------

Lowton--------------Vlaar---------Clarke---------Luna

Marc---------------Westwood-------Delph---------Bertrand

----------------Wiemann----------Gabby

Unless we score one which means we need to score 5...

On another note I heard from a friend that a certain Danish centre forward gets nowhere near the first team due to a stinking attitude " the worst attitude ever seen at VP " allegedly !

VillaBill wrote:On another note I heard from a friend that a certain Danish centre forward gets nowhere near the first team due to a stinking attitude " the worst attitude ever seen at VP " allegedly !

On the level of Nicolas 'Im one of the best strikers in the world' Bedtner?

Great job by the scouting team.