Re: The Steve Bruce thread

by 4BetLite Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:31 am

We've tried flipping managers and players left right and centre, although I was anti Bruce before he came, I'm now for him and we haven't tried sticking with something till it clicks yet, so that's my shout.

As for Calderwood, plenty are pointing to him coming in as the point our form nosedived. Maybe a rethink there is the best bet.

by achilles Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:31 pm

AstonThriller wrote:He's on a rolling contract so sacking him wouldn't be hard financially that's for sure. My thinking right now is to see how he gets on until the end of the season. If the finish is a total disaster and we're in the bottom half then I think Xia and co will have to have a serious think about what to do next. If we finish in decent form then lets give him the first ten games of next season and go from there.

This is my feeling but the team has to show some cohesion and progress from the shit displayed last night before the end of the season.

by smetro Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:42 pm

I pushed heavily for a Bruce appointment, he has done this job in the past so hopefully he can still do it here. I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed though.

At first he came in and did exactly what I thought he would - he got more out of what we had.
However now he seems to have done what I hoped he wouldn't need to - making major changes mid season. I did hope any signings he made would sort of be icing the cake signings - to push us on. But it seems as if he is looking now for the new guys to steady the ship.

Why he went for another rookie keeper is beyond me.

I just wonder with all the new faces, Wyness, Round, Xia, Calderwood, Clemence - are there a few power struggles going on ?

Certainly you can pinpoint the decline down to the appointment of calderwood. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see him replaced by Mike Phelan as time goes by.

I seen an interview with Steve Round - who seemed to waffle on a lot - making simple things sound really complicated. Ive seen on other forums him likened to Tom Fox for that - and the comparison does seem apt

by Boldfinger Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:50 pm

Bruce has had one January window to try a strengthen a club that has been in freefall for 6 or 7 years, he hasn't yet bought in enough players to field a first 11 let alone a squad. If he's bought well then at least half of his signings will work out, it would be a miracle if they all did.

Its not easy to be patient after the shite we have all had to watch for so long but now is the time for patience and understanding, Bruce has a shed load of excuses, but will use none, he needs to be cut some slack and supported.

by deadbuzzardalive Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:34 pm

Most of the playing squad now are players who've had nothing to do with the last five or so seasons previous to this one. The players we've got are more than good enough to be doing much better than they are.

When Bruce took us over, McClaren took over Derby at the same time, they were below us in the league, now they're ten points ahead of us, Warnock also took over Cardiff at that time, since they've won more points than we have, with a much poorer squad.

I wouldn't sack him just yet as I think the next three games present an opportunity to turn our season around. But I'm sure that the club will be looking into replacements, because if things don't improve soon, then a losing rut will set in amongst the new players and that's not what we need at all, going into next season.

i know it's easier said than done but this club could do with a Wenger type to come in and revolutionize the whole club.

by big ming Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:50 pm

Truth is that the Championship is a roll-your-sleeves-up and get stuck in league. Nobody owes us a living and until SB gets that mentality into all the squad (new and old) we will continue to get our pants pulled down by teams that work harder and have better team spirit than us.

by deadbuzzardalive Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:16 pm

I'd say for the most part we've been out-classed by teams who play better football than us, and have better tactics and an actual gameplan. Getting stuck in is all well and good, but that alone won't get us anywhere.

by Saunders82 Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:30 pm

As it has been said before its a tough league and we all knew it, the players especially the old guard have not been ready to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in, but hopefully now we will see plenty of effort and MOVEMENT it wont happen straight away but the sooner the better for everyone, once we do I'm confident we will go on a run of winning games. Yes last night was after the lord mayors show, be honest we all thought that that team would do the business, it didnt but roll on Forest, lets put things right, what a difference a win will make.

by achilles Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:58 pm

A win would be nice but I have come to the conclusion that I want to see some improvement in our style of play.
The first half against Preston was probably the best we have played all season, the second half was probably the worse, that is something that Bruce has to address, why did that happen?
On paper this is the best side we have had for absolutely ages but unfortunately they have to translate that onto the pitch and that is were Bruce has to step up to the mark.
As @deadbuzzardalive has pointed out supposedly inferior sides to us have changed their manager and changed their fortune for the better with much less resources than Villa have at their disposal.
Bruce has to show that he can motivate and get these players performing on the pitch starting with Forest on Saturday, no more excuses after the match of fragile mentalities because it is utter bollocks, stand up and be counted or f**k off!

by Con Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:01 pm

It takes time for team chemistry to develop. Players need to get to know each other, play for each other.

With so many personnel changes what we need now is stability and as long as the players are making an effort we should give them time to become a unit.

by big ming Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:20 pm

All good points previously, but it all probably adds up the fact that we aint going up this year. In fact the club and the fans can take a lot of pressure off themselves by accepting that this is now an excercise in preparing for 2017 - 2018 and will be vital to getting off to a fast start and burning up the league next year. Of course,if we should suddenly click and get to the play offs, that would be a bonus.

by **De Kuip** Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:27 pm

Gotta be honest I think Bruce is out of his depth I really do. Just baffling managerial decisions time and again. Tactics, line-ups, in-game reactions, team selections. You name it, he''s baffled me with it.
I expected better from him, I really did.

by achilles Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:35 pm

Is this yet another manager who basically hasn't got a clue, words fail me!
As for Grealish don't get me started, just crawl into a hole and piss off!

by Thinman Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:36 pm

Yep, big questions about Bruce now. It's his team and it's crap.

by AstonThriller Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:54 pm

Today reminded me of RDM before his demise. 532 against Newcastle and Ipswich and though we got draws out of those games it just felt like he was running out of ideas. I was reluctant to back him for the job because It's well known that he's not a manager who coaches the players, he leaves that to others. So when things start going tits up how does he change it when he's not an influence on the training ground?

I sent the club a whole list of managers when they were doing their "search"...and Marco Silva was one of the names. I look at what he's doing at Hull right now and I just shake my head. It's also funny how Monk apparently made a play for the job but was turned down in favour of RDM.

I just don't see a philosophy at play with Bruce. And I don't see someone who is smart tactically or a man who is wise where subs are concerned.

We've now lost six out of the last seven away games? That's simply not good enough and I just get that sinking feeling with Bruce that I've had with the last four or five managers. Hey who knows, Maybe these new guys will start firing at Villa Park and we'll go on a run? But that's not how the script goes at this club these days right? When our manager is in hot water, he usually drowns.

by deadbuzzardalive Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:14 pm

I'd start thinking about replacing him now. But please not Rowett, we need someone to come in, and stamp a style of play on our team, doesn't have to be Barcelona style, but one where we can retain possession at least, and actually make use of our good players.

It might not have to be an obvious or fancy name, It could be someone like the Brentford manager or Warburton at Rangers.

It's just a question now of do we wait until the end of the season, when better, more suitable managers might be available, Wagner springs to mind. Or do we change now, in preperation for next season. Round needs to come up with something.

by Saunders82 Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:20 pm

I don't agree with moving on Bruce he has only just got his players in, we still have dross left from previous managers looks like the playoffs are a bridge to far this year, time for stability, game-time & getting it together, a few additions to a more stable team in the summer shouldn't cause too much disruption IMO Scarf Waving

by smetro Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:32 pm

still a case for more time - but as with RDM before him - Im seeing next to nothing. hopefully 2 home games can start us rolling.

what has happened to the coaching though. Chester and Baker looked world beater only a short while back - now look hopeless. Really think Bruce\Calderwood isn't a match made in heaven....enter Mick Phelan as no 2 ???

by big ming Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:01 pm

Can anyone who knows how the set up works at BMH tell me....
is Bruce a hands on Manager/Coach working with the players on a daily basis? or..... does he leave Training to the Coaching staff?
Do the first team play practice matches against the under 23's?
Is the emphasis on skills, fitness or teamwork?
Has Calderwood changed our methods since he arrived?
Why are we being given footballing lessons by the majority of Championship teams if things are ok at BMH?

by deadbuzzardalive Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:05 pm

He's reminding me of Tim Sherwood to be honest. Comes in and does well initially, but as the novelty of having him around wears off, there's not much left. He doesn't seem to have a game plan, or know what he's doing, evidenced by him suddenly changing to three at the back today, just making it up as he goes along until he stumbles onto something that works.

Yes we change managers too often, but only because we appoint unsuitable ones to begin with. Get it right in the first place and they wouldn't need sacking.

I don't know if Round was responsible for both Di Matteo and Bruce, I know he was said to be advising the club before he was officially appointed. If he was then questions might have to be asked about him, He talks a good game but I wonder if it was a mistake giving such an important job to someone with no experience in the role.

by UnclePanda Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:37 pm

Talk of getting rid of Bruce, for me, is crazy. We need stability at this club. We have hounded out so many managers over the last few years, and this is why we are where we are. I think we have to keep with Bruce until the end of next season at the earliest (unless the unthinkable happens and we get relegated this season). We cant keep changing managers everytime we go on a bad run. We will disappear into the abyss if we do.

by **De Kuip** Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:51 pm

I think the thing that has surprised me is that when Bruce was odds on, I wasn't overjoyed as I said at the time on this forum that his teams were a bit "meh", but the one thing I felt he would bring was stability, if not entertainment.
For me, that's one of the things that has been missing - we had it for a while when he came in, and I thought whilst we weren't going to set the world on fire, we'll be mid to upper table, nice steady ship, ready to consolidate for next season's push for promotion.
I can't tell if he's just rolling the dice - Sherwood like as someone above said, or if just as it looks like a player is ok for a role, they promptly fuck it up next time out.
It's so frustrating not knowing the inside story - again, as Big Ming says, what's the regime doing there. For all the public-facing words the new boys (from both of the last two windows) say when they sign, we seem to remove whatever made them what they were when we signed them, to looking like they've never performed as we know they all did prior to arriving at Villa.
So what the fuck is it? What is it about our club that is losing the very thing we bought each of these players for? Is it the coaching? Inconsistent tactics? Players playing out of position from when they were at other clubs and performed? Too many new faces in one go? Is it Bruce's interaction with players - does he have a clique? Is it residual poor attitude from the shit brigade?
It's something - something that is maybe undefinable for us mugs out in the real world, but maybe for those player on the inside, it's very evident, but that Cosa Nostra will never be open to us. I wonder if the new players ever go home to their wives and say"Fucking hell, it's nothing like I thought it would be at Villa - compared to (*insert former club name here) the training and tactics is a fucking joke. Ho-hum, at least I'm on £30k a week - can't be bad".
I'm sure I've painted it way blacker than it is, and if/when we click I'll wonder what all the worry was about, but right now it feels like a real low point, for both Aston Villa as a club, and for us as fans.

by **De Kuip** Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:54 pm

UnclePanda wrote:Talk of getting rid of Bruce, for me, is crazy. We need stability at this club. We have hounded out so many managers over the last few years, and this is why we are where we are. I think we have to keep with Bruce until the end of next season at the earliest (unless the unthinkable happens and we get relegated this season). We cant keep changing managers everytime we go on a bad run. We will disappear into the abyss if we do.

I agree - and whilst I've been critical of him very recently, I wouldn't advocate we get rid - he and the players need the breathing space to sort it - if everyone thinks that each game is the last one for them, that will not engender the measured approach we need right now. No, we need to stick with him, in order that he has the chance to meld these new additions together. I tell you what though, that's me right now. We continue to slide towards to relegation zone, I might not be so generous in my critique.

by deadbuzzardalive Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:55 pm

It's like I've said before, our downfall hasn't been sacking managers, it's appointing the wrong ones in the first place. And looks like we've made another poor choice with Bruce.

We can't stick with someone who isn't working and won't work, just for the sake of stability. Bruce for me is completely the wrong man for our particular needs. Our problem has been that we're rubbish on the ball, we're crying out for someone to come in to address that and give some identity to our play.

by smetro Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:56 pm

UnclePanda wrote:Talk of getting rid of Bruce, for me, is crazy. We need stability at this club. We have hounded out so many managers over the last few years, and this is why we are where we are. I think we have to keep with Bruce until the end of next season at the earliest (unless the unthinkable happens and we get relegated this season). We cant keep changing managers everytime we go on a bad run. We will disappear into the abyss if we do.

I agree - but nobody gets a blank cheque. The signing of Johnsone looked dodgy at the outset, i trusted SB to have sounded him out - we had funds, there was no need to bring in a loan keeper - thats an almighty bollock drop for all to see. What errors are going on that we don't see. Much as I wanted SB I can't blindly defend him...

just hope we put in some spirited performances over the next few weeks.

on the other side of coin, for all this talk of strategy, style of play, holding this, player x given a free role ........lets remember many years back, Peter Withe was brought in to play along side Brian Little - little got injured so Gary Shaw was promoted to the first team for the 80/81 season. So Bruce trying multiple formations, whilst it might look hap hazard ...chance plays a part.

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