Aston Villa v Sunderland.

The question is, do we truly believe Lambert can turn this around and improve us going forward and I can honestly say I just can't see it.

We have a non scoring, non assisting midfield that play every match. We have two goal scoring, and assisting midfielders who just about make the bench.

Okore just about made the bench until Lambert was forced by multiple injuries to play him, and then he was superb for us. Grealish and Bacuna will probably have to wait until Lambert is forced to start them, before they get the chance they so obviously deserve.

Thinman wrote:I just don't get it. With 11 goals in 19 games, Lambert still has his supporters.

How, why? I genuinely want to know - then I can form a judgement over what kind of deluded idiot you are.

I'm trying to be optimistic, something I am in almost everything else I do and something I tend to be about 50% of the time when it comes to the Villa (and marriage).

Would I have another manager over Lambert? Yes. Would anyone we want want to come to manage Aston Villa? Er, no, which I think is where the problem lies (well, and if Lerner does want to stay he's holding out on changing manager until it's not his problem). Am I currently paying good money to spend a day coming to see Villa? No. If Lambert starts Grealish and Bacuna over Cleverley and N'Zog would I start again? Yes.

I - like most others - was very anti the 4-3-3, low possession game we saw every single time with a couple of shots on goal and match day evenings pissed off after another boring draw, poor loss or lucky win. Injuries and suspensions have ruled out various players so we finally saw what Okore and Clark, for example, can do and the football looks a lot better for it. There's still the hesitation though with the new formations we are seeing. Lambert seems to be making formation changes during matches (ignoring the enforced ones from red cards) but he still seems to be setting up the team to not lose rather than to go out to attack. I look at three defenders and two wing backs as an attacking formation but I can't help think Lambert is looking it as the chance to play an extra defender.

There are still underlying issues with Lambert (starting N'Zog, for example, or playing Weimann out wide especially when he's not in form, not getting the forward line moving around instead of standing by their markers, or playing Richardson when we clearly have better players and many many other reasons) but there's a very faint possibility the recent enforced changes to the squad might actually kick him up the arse a few more times and he might actually believe in his players and actually let them have a proper go at the opposition.

I'm afraid I'm still not going to watch a live match until Lambert either pulls his socks up and starts Grealish etc and gives us something to cheer about or we get in a new manager who understands that the supporters are there to be entertained, not just to prop up the bank balance after the TV money is taken into account.

avfc85 wrote:The question is, do we truly believe Lambert can turn this around and improve us going forward and I can honestly say I just can't see it.

No I am pretty sure he can't - But can he limp over the relegation line once again ? - I reckon he can.....

Just got a feeling that's the last we see of Delph in Villa shirt!

I get the impression that although we have started to play neater but still non risky passing football there is still one over riding instruction to our midfield .... "do not get goal side of the opposition's midfield", so that they can get back and cover when they inevitably lose the ball. It seems that only the wing backs are allowed to get into advanced positions (and then only one at a time).

Grealish and Bacuna were a breath of fresh air because they played in front of our wing backs and got in behind the opposition.

I'm sorry but a fear of the unknown isn't a good enough reason to keep one of the worst managers in our history.
Plenty of decent managers would snap lerner's hand of to manage us as they would all know they would get better results & play better football than this clueless prick!!!

Did anyone else think it was ridiculous bring on Grealish for Clev? I saw him on the sidelines and thought it'd be a great decision - Weimann off, Jack on, play 4-4-1 and use Bacuna and Grealish to get balls into the box for Benteke. Instead Lambo left us weaker in the middle!

villabromsgrove wrote:I get the impression that although we have started to play neater but still non risky passing football there is still one over riding instruction to our midfield .... "do not get goal side of the opposition's midfield", so that they can get back and cover when they inevitably lose the ball. It seems that only the wing backs are allowed to get into advanced positions (and then only one at a time).

Grealish and Bacuna were a breath of fresh air because they played in front of our wing backs and got in behind the opposition.

This 'change' in footballing style is a huge facade and apart from passing for the sake of passing, is barely any different. We're the same sh*t side whether we tippy tappy in front of the oppositions defence or if Guzan punts it to Benteke to try and win. One just looks a little prettier and a few have been sucked in by that. As you say VB the onus is still largely on NOT losing and the midfield is an indicator of this. You quite rightly point out they never advance beyond the ball, because they're TOLD not too, its how we are set up. Sadly he is here to stay for this season now. Only a hiding by Palace could alter that (Even that probably won't be enough) They'll give him a few million in Jan and then we go again and he gets more time (again) in which to try and improve us)

I've seen people on twitter say it was a GREAT result?! WTF?! that is how low our expectations have no become.....Urrrghhh!

gdav wrote:I'm sorry but a fear of the unknown isn't a good enough reason to keep one of the worst managers in our history.
Plenty of decent managers would snap lerner's hand of to manage us as they would all know they would get better results & play better football than this clueless prick!!!

This for me..

GadgetMan wrote:

villabromsgrove wrote:I get the impression that although we have started to play neater but still non risky passing football there is still one over riding instruction to our midfield .... "do not get goal side of the opposition's midfield", so that they can get back and cover when they inevitably lose the ball. It seems that only the wing backs are allowed to get into advanced positions (and then only one at a time).

Grealish and Bacuna were a breath of fresh air because they played in front of our wing backs and got in behind the opposition.

This 'change' in footballing style is a huge facade and apart from passing for the sake of passing, is barely any different. We're the same sh*t side whether we tippy tappy in front of the oppositions defence or if Guzan punts it to Benteke to try and win. One just looks a little prettier and a few have been sucked in by that. As you say VB the onus is still largely on NOT losing and the midfield is an indicator of this. You quite rightly point out they never advance beyond the ball, because they're TOLD not too, its how we are set up. Sadly he is here to stay for this season now. Only a hiding by Palace could alter that (Even that probably won't be enough) They'll give him a few million in Jan and then we go again and he gets more time (again) in which to try and improve us)  

I've seen people on twitter say it was a GREAT result?! WTF?! that is how low our expectations have no become.....Urrrghhh!

Totally Agree - in some ways there is more hope with the long ball !!!! - (it might just fall to a villa player in the opponents penalty area !!) - people are saying tippy tappy is a workin progress - not for me - no matter how good you get at tippy tappy, if not hurting the opposition you won't score goals

A change of manager is not going to happen under Lerner, so we're going to have to make the most of what we've got. Let's see if PL learnt anything about his players today, and maybe tweaks things for the Thursday match against a struggling Palace.

villabromsgrove wrote:A change of manager is not going to happen under Lerner, so we're going to have to make the most of what we've got. Let's see if PL learnt anything about his players today, and maybe tweaks things for the Thursday match against a struggling Palace.

I don't see Mr Fox as someone who will stick around too long if he can't make critical business decisions and for what he is trying to achieve the football side of things will be the driver, so whilst I agree he won't go this season, unless he shows a LOT more between now and May, he will be given his marching orders end of season.

Let's see how he responds Thursday. Fully expect Gabby to go straight back in and possibly Bacuna to account for delph (If Westwood isn't fit)

Will be very interesting to see how January plays out. a few in the quality bracket as Sanchez will be bloody great.

I agree about Sanchez, he was quality in the world cup and looked totally comfortable on the ball. Now that he's up to speed we should be looking to build an exciting midfield around him.

Bacuna won't come in for Delph if Richardson is back

442 is still best for us with the diamond in the midfield.
Hutton and Aly. Vlaar and Okore.
Sanchez
Grealish and Bacuna.
Delph/Cleverley/Westwood/Cole (whoever available)
Benteke and a.n Other!

Even a 433 with Grealish and Bacuna around Benteke would make more impact. We don't have the ability to play pretty triangles around teams to create goals.
We do however have the ability to get the ball wide and let 2 wingers put ball after ball in the box to a genuinely world class striker.

Villa_Dan wrote:Did anyone else think it was ridiculous bring on Grealish for Clev? I saw him on the sidelines and thought it'd be a great decision - Weimann off, Jack on, play 4-4-1 and use Bacuna and Grealish to get balls into the box for Benteke. Instead Lambo left us weaker in the middle!

Gotta be honest and disagree. Cleverley is pointless. He is tidy. He is NOTHING else.

Some people think Gary Gardner will never make it. He might not. But there is nothing that Cleverley does that he couldn't do.

Sorry, I have tried to be okay about Cleverley. I know some people still have a wank (not you Dan!) over the fact that he played for Man U and England but he is pointless. Utterly pointless. I really wanted him to be good because obviously a lot of people had already written him off before he did anything. I had my doubts, I tried to be open minded, but no, my doubts weren't even right enough. He does nothing of value. He is taking up a space in the team that could be put to much better use by someone who does something. Literally anything. Passing good balls, getting on the end of things, even just defending. There is nothing to Cleverley. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

I will be beyond disgusted when we spunk £8m on him next month. Completely and utterly disgusted with Aston Villa and everyone involved in this bull shit deal.

We had 10 men on the pitch and the midfield was far better without Cleverley even when we had 11 men. Why? Sanchez defends well but still passes the ball forward. Grealish passes and moves in areas and ways that actually affect things. Bacuna makes decent forward runs and looks to create things. Even Weimann, who should be nowhere near the Premier League, or at least a club like Villa, still does things in a forward momentum and may grab a goal.

Tom Cleverley is yet another footballer making millions and it's fucking disgusting. It makes me sick that such an average player will never have to worry about money again unless he is a complete idiot, despite contributing nothing other than sidewards passes and the occasional tackle. Put Shay Given in there and he'd probably do the fucking same.

This isn't an over the top rant, this is just me fed up of yet another piece of nonsense under Paul Lambert. But even though most of his reign has been an extreme list of nonsense, I can still at least see why arguments have been made for most of it, regardless of completely disagreeing with it. But there is no justification for Cleverley, for signing him, for him being here. Nothing. There is no redeeming features about him and I am dreading a good portion, maybe all - despite the rumours - of our transfer budget being wasted on someone who offers nothing that most footballers could not offer.

LaMbert must go or I'll hit him with my tickling stick.

kimbo wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:Did anyone else think it was ridiculous bring on Grealish for Clev? I saw him on the sidelines and thought it'd be a great decision - Weimann off, Jack on, play 4-4-1 and use Bacuna and Grealish to get balls into the box for Benteke. Instead Lambo left us weaker in the middle!

Gotta be honest and disagree. Cleverley is pointless. He is tidy. He is NOTHING else.

Some people think Gary Gardner will never make it. He might not. But there is nothing that Cleverley does that he couldn't do.

Sorry, I have tried to be okay about Cleverley. I know some people still have a wank (not you Dan!) over the fact that he played for Man U and England but he is pointless. Utterly pointless. I really wanted him to be good because obviously a lot of people had already written him off before he did anything. I had my doubts, I tried to be open minded, but no, my doubts weren't even right enough. He does nothing of value. He is taking up a space in the team that could be put to much better use by someone who does something. Literally anything. Passing good balls, getting on the end of things, even just defending. There is nothing to Cleverley. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

I will be beyond disgusted when we spunk £8m on him next month. Completely and utterly disgusted with Aston Villa and everyone involved in this bull shit deal.

We had 10 men on the pitch and the midfield was far better without Cleverley even when we had 11 men. Why? Sanchez defends well but still passes the ball forward. Grealish passes and moves in areas and ways that actually affect things. Bacuna makes decent forward runs and looks to create things. Even Weimann, who should be nowhere near the Premier League, or at least a club like Villa, still does things in a forward momentum and may grab a goal.

Tom Cleverley is yet another footballer making millions and it's fucking disgusting. It makes me sick that such an average player will never have to worry about money again unless he is a complete idiot, despite contributing nothing other than sidewards passes and the occasional tackle. Put Shay Given in there and he'd probably do the fucking same.

This isn't an over the top rant, this is just me fed up of yet another piece of nonsense under Paul Lambert. But even though most of his reign has been an extreme list of nonsense, I can still at least see why arguments have been made for most of it, regardless of completely disagreeing with it. But there is no justification for Cleverley, for signing him, for him being here. Nothing. There is no redeeming features about him and I am dreading a good portion, maybe all - despite the rumours - of our transfer budget being wasted on someone who offers nothing that most footballers could not offer.

Can't disagree with your rant. But today, having lost Delph, and struggling to keep a shape and formation, we ended up with Bacuna seemingly trying to cover the entire midfield so Grealish could push on and create something while Andi ran about like a headless chicken. Keep Clev on, tell him and Sanchez to keep things tidy in midfield, let Bacuna and Grealish bomb the wings and whip balls into Benteke. Lambo just hasn't got any tactical nouse. He throws players on wherever like a retard playing football manager. Playing 4-4-1 might've isolated Benteke but he can bully defenders and would win his share of the crosses, and we would've been balanced.

As for Clev, he's a tidy little player living off the fact that he played for United. I had great hopes that he could come here with a point to prove and stick 2 fingers up at the United fans, but he just hasn't done anything of note. He doesn't do anything wrong though either. He's the footballing equivalent of the colour beige.

My mate used the beige analogy the other day, ha!

Yeah I was surprised he kept Weimann on. I just felt we still did more with Bacuna in the middle.

Also, and I can't be arsed to type another rant   but N'Zogbia. Why? Just... why?!

Nzogbia is a lazy fat fuck, I was a big fan of his but he's a useless cnut lately and needs dropping. Into a gym.

Villa_Dan wrote:Nzogbia is a lazy fat fuck, I was a big fan of his but he's a useless cnut lately and needs dropping. Into a gym.

I posted this about him in the Man U match thread after everyone had stopped reading it 

"I keep reading from people that N'Zogbia is nothing like he was at Wigan but I really disagree. He's always been a shower of shit; what happened was he had a run of good games towards the end of one season, scored a couple of important goals and they stayed up.

That's it. Rest of his time at Wigan, and at Newcastle, and probably anywhere else, he has, in the main, been utter tripe. He's just one of many footballers that has stolen a career. The fact that this bloke is one of so many undeserving, painfully average footballers who earn more money in a week that some people do in a year makes me want to vomit to the point where I haemorrhage, thus causing my memory to forever block out anything to do with modern day professional footballers and their completely disgusting and unjustifiable wages."

I don't think footballers should be on the money they are on, in case anyone hasn't worked that out

N'Zogbia & Weimann were pants yesterday , but you could tell from about minute 10 we were about to witness a 0-0.
Yesterday was as bad as anything i have witnessed this season , no pace , no guile , no skill & i still cant see Mr Lamberts tactics !
For instance, the entire time Benteke has been injured , Guzan has been playing the long ball up to Gabby / Weimann , now he is fit we play out to the centre halves near our own corner flags , WTF ?
I am sure this is to improve our possession stats , fcuk that , there is only one stat that matters !
We have one of the best players in the air in the league Mr Lambert, swallow some pride , add some width & pace (ie a winger or two) and give our only class player some service !

Cleverley is so ordinary I feel a new word should be invented to describe him.
N'zogbia reminds me of that allien in men in black that has squeezed himself in a humans skin.
Weiman cant even control a ball that's rolled at him along the floor (my 2 year old can collect a pass easier)
Agbonlahor would not even be a professional footballer if he couldn't run so quick.
And Delph who is tidy enough will NEVER be a game changer apart from changing it for the worse with his horrendous tacking.
The lot of them can sod off as far as I'm concerned.

VillaBill wrote:N'Zogbia & Weimann were pants yesterday , but you could tell from about minute 10 we were about to witness a 0-0.
Yesterday was as bad as anything i have witnessed this season , no pace , no guile , no skill & i still cant see Mr Lamberts tactics !
For instance, the entire time Benteke has been injured , Guzan has been playing the long ball up to Gabby / Weimann , now he is fit we play out to the centre halves near our own corner flags , WTF ?
I am sure this is to improve our possession stats , fcuk that , there is only one stat that matters !
We have one of the best players in the air in the league Mr Lambert, swallow some pride , add some width & pace (ie a winger or two) and give our only class player some service !

Thats pretty much as I see it - However a lot of people are claiming this is progress and are taken by the change in tactics - I don't know of any team playing the ball so slowly, thats ever done anything - the whole thing needs speeding up - and some width as you say...