Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

by deadbuzzardalive Wed May 10, 2017 4:07 pm

Well I'm hoping they don't leave it until 10 or 12 games, if things aren't going well. In my opinion we should going for the title next season, no ifs or buts, we have to get off to a flying start.

I agree it's easier to change the manager now, just delaying the inevitable really. To be honest I'm still hoping that they're waiting for the play-offs to finish and they will go for either Wagner or Jokanović.

by Guest Thu May 11, 2017 8:07 am

deadbuzzardalive wrote:I actually think addressing the quality of our football, being more attack minded in games, and getting the players we already have to work as a cohesive unit, is more important to us having a good season than signing new players.

Which is why I thought the most important change to make would be a new manager, but that's not going to happen now. But I really think we should be looking to do the next best thing, which would be to bring in someone to help with the coaching, I guess Phelan would be the obvious shout, but not sure how realistic that would be, but we definitely need to change something, besides just throwing money at the problem.

I completely agree with the underlined bit, but I think you get it all wrong from there. We've had a club and squad now in utter turmoil for quite some time. We have signed wayyyy too many players from window to window, thus they never really gel as a unit. We've largely been a team of indidivuals instead of a cohesive unit (as you say).
If we were to get in another manager, that means new players, new formations, new rules and another year of being a team of individuals. This is exactly what we don't need.

You use the right numbers, but get the wrong answer so to speak. In my opinion.

by Dazzle Thu May 11, 2017 8:50 am

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Well I'm hoping they don't leave it until 10 or 12 games, if things aren't going well. In my opinion we should going for the title next season, no ifs or buts, we have to get off to a flying start.

I agree it's easier to change the manager now, just delaying the inevitable really. To be honest I'm still hoping that they're waiting for the play-offs to finish and they will go for either Wagner or Jokanović.

6-8 games should be enough to have seen what shape we're in next season, maximum. No excuses, we should be hitting the ground running next season and right in the mix of the top positions in the league. Bruce will have had a full pre-season and two transfer windows behind him, if we don't see a much improved team unit and results in those first 6-8 games of next season then we never will under Bruce.

by deadbuzzardalive Thu May 11, 2017 9:41 am

Joppe84 wrote:
deadbuzzardalive wrote:I actually think addressing the quality of our football, being more attack minded in games, and getting the players we already have to work as a cohesive unit, is more important to us having a good season than signing new players.

Which is why I thought the most important change to make would be a new manager, but that's not going to happen now. But I really think we should be looking to do the next best thing, which would be to bring in someone to help with the coaching, I guess Phelan would be the obvious shout, but not sure how realistic that would be, but we definitely need to change something, besides just throwing money at the problem.

I completely agree with the underlined bit, but I think you get it all wrong from there. We've had a club and squad now in utter turmoil for quite some time. We have signed wayyyy too many players from window to window, thus they never really gel as a unit. We've largely been a team of indidivuals instead of a cohesive unit (as you say).
If we were to get in another manager, that means new players, new formations, new rules and another year of being a team of individuals. This is exactly what we don't need.

You use the right numbers, but get the wrong answer so to speak. In my opinion.

We're going to be signing a number of players this summer whoever is in charge; Bruce has said himself that he's going to strengthen in every area and that he's going to 'wheel and deal' to give us a squad to challenge for promotion, so big changes are afoot, either way. In fact you could argue that Bruce would make more changes than a new manager would, because he (Bruce) has already proven to himself that he can't get the best out of the players we already have (something to his credit that he's admitted himself) whereas a new manager might feel he can work with current players with just a few changes. As for new formaton and new rules, well there hasn't been a set formation so far, and it would be nice for the team to have 'rules' at all, and being a team that relies on individual(s) is exactly what Bruce turned us into last season.

I guess what I'm saying is that Bruce offers us less stability than does bringing in a decent manager who can do better with the players already at the club, and has a definite plan.

by deadbuzzardalive Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Continuing the theme of having to sell to buy, but posting in here to stay on topic, didn't Bruce quit Hull last summer for that exact reason?

by smetro Mon May 15, 2017 1:15 pm

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Continuing the theme of having to sell to buy, but posting in here to stay on topic, didn't Bruce quit Hull last summer for that exact reason?

Think you're probably right.

To be honest though most clubs in the championship don't have massive budgets for players, do don't really think he can have too many complaints.

by AstonThriller Mon May 15, 2017 4:13 pm

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Well I'm hoping they don't leave it until 10 or 12 games, if things aren't going well. In my opinion we should going for the title next season, no ifs or buts, we have to get off to a flying start.

I agree it's easier to change the manager now, just delaying the inevitable really. To be honest I'm still hoping that they're waiting for the play-offs to finish and they will go for either Wagner or Jokanović.

That's my hope too. We'll only really know that Bruce is certain to stay when we start making signings. Until then, I still think there's a chance he could be off. Three out of Stam, Jokanovic, Carhalhal and Wagner will be available after the play-offs and for me it could be our "Pochettino" moment. The worry is Wyness and Round...are they brave enough to make such a bold decision like Cortese was all them years ago? I'd be lying if I said I was confident.

Wagner was said to be very high on Round's list before we got Bruce so at least we know his thinking is in the right place.

by AstonThriller Mon May 15, 2017 4:15 pm

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Continuing the theme of having to sell to buy, but posting in here to stay on topic, didn't Bruce quit Hull last summer for that exact reason?

The difference is Bruce has waxed lyrical about Xia's "incredible plans" for the club and how this job is "the chance of a lifetime" for him. So there's simply no way I see him walking away from this I'm afraid.

by deadbuzzardalive Mon May 15, 2017 8:42 pm

Yes at Hull he had squad that were pretty much guarunteed to struggle, whilst here he's got one of the best, if not the best squad of players in the division. The more I think about it, the more I convince myself that something might be going on in the background.

by deadbuzzardalive Mon May 15, 2017 10:02 pm

Rumours gathering pace that Wolves are set to part ways with Lambert.

by deadbuzzardalive Tue May 16, 2017 11:58 am

Carlos Carvalhal's job said to be under threat at Wednesday, whether they get promoted or not.

by AstonThriller Tue May 16, 2017 3:37 pm

Other rumours suggest Norwich will try to go for Wagner if Huddersfield don't go up. Can't see them being able to compete with us if we were to make a move aswell.

Also RE the Wolves situation. Nothing confirmed yet but the talk is Karanka could be the guy to replace Lambert. IF they get him AND spend a lot of money then they could be a threat tbh. But I doubt they'll spend that much.

by smetro Tue May 16, 2017 3:56 pm

AstonThriller wrote:Other rumours suggest Norwich will try to go for Wagner if Huddersfield don't go up. Can't see them being able to compete with us if we were to make a move aswell.

Also RE the Wolves situation. Nothing confirmed yet but the talk is Karanka could be the guy to replace Lambert. IF they get him AND spend a lot of money then they could be a threat tbh. But I doubt they'll spend that much.

Don't get the hype for Wagner - his huddersfield side were nearly relegated last season - sure he has them flying them high now - but not much to me to suggest he is up to managing a big club. Even if Bruce did go I don't think he would be very on the radar of Aston Villa.

by deadbuzzardalive Tue May 16, 2017 4:33 pm

Pretty sure that Wagner was heavily linked before Bruce got the job. I think he'd be very much under consideration, along with the likes of Jokanović, Dean Smith. Although by the time Bruce leaves, I'm sure there will be new names being talked about.

It would be incredibly hard to attract a manager to the championship, who's proven that he's up to managing a big club succesfully though. I sometimes think that's what we need though, someone like Ralph Rangnick, who'd offer both a progressive managerial style and bring with him the experience of managing some big clubs; he'd also have most fans on board which would create a bit of a feel good factor, and bring a lot of hope.

by AstonThriller Tue May 16, 2017 7:15 pm

smetro wrote:

Don't get the hype for Wagner - his huddersfield side were nearly relegated last season - sure he has them flying them high now - but not much to me to suggest he is up to managing a big club. Even if Bruce did go I don't think he would be very on the radar of Aston Villa.

Wagner went to Huddersfield when they weren't in the best of shape, he steadied the ship and now the fruits are started to bear. The same happened with Jokanovic at Fulham.

by deadbuzzardalive Tue May 16, 2017 9:46 pm

Ho's tweeted that he's in China until June, Xia's there as well, so can't imagine any big changes happening now.

by Guest Tue May 16, 2017 11:23 pm

McGrath no.

by smetro Wed May 17, 2017 8:38 am

AstonThriller wrote:
smetro wrote:

Don't get the hype for Wagner - his huddersfield side were nearly relegated last season - sure he has them flying them high now - but not much to me to suggest he is up to managing a big club. Even if Bruce did go I don't think he would be very on the radar of Aston Villa.

Wagner went to Huddersfield when they weren't in the best of shape, he steadied the ship and now the fruits are started to bear. The same happened with Jokanovic at Fulham.

Jokanovic I can see the attraction - I thought Fulham were dead certs to go up and I expect them to be strong next season. Wagner I feel will struggle from here onwards.

by Guest Wed May 17, 2017 9:12 am

AstonThriller wrote:
smetro wrote:

Don't get the hype for Wagner - his huddersfield side were nearly relegated last season - sure he has them flying them high now - but not much to me to suggest he is up to managing a big club. Even if Bruce did go I don't think he would be very on the radar of Aston Villa.

Wagner went to Huddersfield when they weren't in the best of shape, he steadied the ship and now the fruits are started to bear. The same happened with Jokanovic at Fulham.

So there is not patience for Bruce to establishment his side and bear fruits so to speak, but you use the very same argument to talk up Wagner. Right.

by deadbuzzardalive Wed May 17, 2017 11:42 am

All this talk of other managers is futile for the time being, as it stands I think Bruce is more likely to walk than be get the sack. We've just got to hope that he gets it right now. I'm not totally without hope, just not very confident, but at least he seems to know how our play needs to improve.

If we get off to bad start and make a change, I'm convinced we'll go for Dean Smith as long as he's not having a disaster at Brentford.

by smetro Wed May 17, 2017 12:37 pm

deadbuzzardalive wrote:All this talk of other managers is futile for the time being, as it stands I think Bruce is more likely to walk than be get the sack. We've just got to hope that he gets it right now. I'm not totally without hope, just not very confident, but at least he seems to know how our play needs to improve.

If we get off to bad start and make a change, I'm convinced we'll go for Dean Smith as long as he's not having a disaster at Brentford.

I think Bruce will limp on until at least October. By then Im sure one of the current managers seen to being doing well currently, will have been sacked......

Houghton, Dyche, Stamm, Carvallho etc....

by deadbuzzardalive Wed May 17, 2017 3:57 pm

I wouldn't actually want any of those managers as I don't think they'd offer a big enough shift from what we've seen in recent times. I think this club needs something radically different if it's going to progress in the long run.

This is looking like it's going to be one of the quietest summers at Villa in a long time, no takeover talks, no managerial search, coaching staff will probably stay as is, probably won't be many incoming transfers either...

by deadbuzzardalive Thu May 25, 2017 1:49 pm

We might not be changing managers but a lot of our rivals will be; Silva has left Hull, Monk has just resigned at Leeds, Norwich and Middlesbrough need new managers, Wolves are said to be replacing Lambert, Moyes quit Sunderland.

Will be interesting to see who they all bring in.

by big ming Thu May 25, 2017 5:33 pm

If he was going to be sacked, Bruce would be gone by now. If he walks Dean Smith would interest me. given his progressive brand of football plus being a fan would be a big plus in terms of "one of our own".
Gary Monk would also appeal from a style point of view and having a decent record, but I suspect he has been tapped up and a deal is already in place.

by deadbuzzardalive Thu May 25, 2017 5:50 pm

Both Xia and Wyness have said countless times now directly or indirectly that he's going nowhere. But Wyness has said that this

'There is going to be some pressure on. This is a key season for a number of players. We will make sure we are equipped and we are really going to do this right. We have done the whole route and branch side of the football operation which means they have a better support system than they have ever had. With the training regimes and the way we are going to do things, I am really sure we will get it right this year. It will be something unusual if we don't.'

As for Monk, I'm not convinced by him.

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