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Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

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Bruce stays or Bruce goes?

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by smetro on Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:52 pm

@De Kuip wrote:I think what I was trying to say and not doing it very well is that Villa seem to have become a club where any managerial appointment seems like a gamble. Or at least that's what our more recent history seems to show. Appointing a new manager can be a gamble for any club, I get that, but feck me we seem to screw up on too many appointments. I know the club has been broken for a long time but I'm amazed at how little a succession of managers seem to have impacted on the needed turnaround. It felt for a while that we were speed dating our way to a perfect partner and that didn't work, so we went for the fat bird who was unspectacular but reliable. Turns out even she is a sad disappointment whose approach to improving the home is to constantly shift the position of the furniture.
I think it's time we went for a mail order Russian bride, cos I'm running out of inspiration here.

We are big club - but only in a division which attracts managerial hopefuls, - Sure some of the names touted have done well at small championship clubs + but some are more head coach than manager. To me managing a small club well in the championship , doesn't prepare you for managing Aston Villa.

The managerial merry go around at Villa looks worse than it is - because of the goddamn awful appointments  by lerner and Tom Fox. Sure XIa got it wrong with RDM. But quickly learnt and seemed to hand the decision over to Wyness. I know Bruce wasn't everyone's favourite - but it looked a reasonable appointment last November.

Lets not forget Aston Villa needs managing after around 6 years of no one giving a toss - Just appointing a head coach and letting him work with the first team isn't enough IMO. So who would I go for ?

Sean Dyche - Who I believe has done as much as he can at Burnley - and I reckon he would be getable.

Eddie Howe - a long shot but we have to aim high

I am not against an overseas manager - but it needs to be someone of a certain calibre , Slaven Billic, Benitez  (not necessarily them but someone of that bracket) - What I don't want is someone whose done reasonably well in some second tier overseas league - we  have tried that - if we did again I fear it will be equally disastrous.

My final thoughts are perhaps we should be a bit nasty - stick with Bruce until a big name become available- perhaps we should manage the evants rather than reacting to them.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:09 pm

At various stages we've had Agbonlahor, Gestede, McCormack, Ayew, Hogan and Kodjia pick from to play up front, some of the best goalscoring srikers to play in this division over the last few seasons; along with Adomah and Hourihane, between those two they've got 24 assists this season.

And yet we've only scored forty-six goals in forty-five games, that's pathetic. Bruce, Calderwood and Clemence hardly inspire confidence of fixing the problem.

Lansbury, Hourihane and Hogan have been shadows of their former selves since joining, and I'd say that McCormack and Grealish actually looked pretty decent at the start of the season.

Club need to do the right thing and then bring someone in who will change the whole culture of the club.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by DelboyVilla on Mon May 01, 2017 10:46 am

Well I know that Xia and Co want stability but with Bruce in charge that means consistently finishing in mid table in the Championship?

Round was brought in to change the culture of the club and all he has done is bring in Bruce? If that is his idea of cultural change then he needs to go back to the drawing board!!!

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Joppe84 on Mon May 01, 2017 6:04 pm

@De Kuip wrote:
@Joppe84 wrote:
@AstonThriller wrote:
@Joppe84 wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:If Bruce is still here next season then we won't go up, Round and Wyness should probably think about letting him go to save their own jobs.

I think we will have a higher chance than him not being here.

Not for me. He's a dinosaur who can't cope at a big club imo. It's ok when you're at Blues, Wigan, Hull etc, but the pressure is different here and that, along with his outdated philosophies, tells me he isn't the man to take us forward. TWELVE away defeats since Bruce came is quite staggering. If the board have any guts then they'll pull the trigger and get a man who can actually improve the players rather than blame them for everything and send them out with negative tactics.

It's quite obvious he's trying to make us play good football, but the team is too shit to grasp it. This isn't a Bruce issue at all. This is an issue about settling a squad and getting rid of shite players that dragged us into the mud. Throwing a tantrum for another manager sacking is beyond fucking ridiculous. Give it time.

And for the record when he stays on and gets it right, I hope a lot on here reflect on their fickleness and that they don't deserve it when we're promoted.

I've always found it a good strategy to ignore your posts as they never contain anything I'd class as either something of interest or relate in any way to what I'd consider worth reading but I have to say this time you've excelled yourself. How anyone who posts such carping negativity time after time has the brass neck to call any other posters on this forum fickle displays a level of hypocrisy that I can only marvel at. We know the noses like to call us fickle so it's an insult that I find particulary anti-villa, which I've long suspected you are. Can you not just have an alternative view without rolling out the superior attitude ffs.
Sorry, I think I started to have a bit of a go at the poster not the post, so I'll concentrate on a critique of your post: it's bollocks..........

Really doesn't bother me whether you think this or that about, as I'm not 14 or insecure. Trying some kinda suppression technique as I'm supposed to be a nose though, that's funny.  If you have an issue with what I contribute with, why don't you simply ignore me. It's an option on this forum and quite easy to take into use. You'd probably do us both a favour to be fair.

Regarding what I wrote it's been an issue in modern football for a while, well ever since the  media paradigm shift, which essentially is the Premier League era to date. And it's very noticeable and a huge issue for our club. New managers come into this club and it's all amazing, we sign new players and people are happy. We win a match and we are going the right way, it's euphoric. We do well for 3-4-5 matches in a row and we're going to get back to win trophies. We lose or do bad a few matches in a row, and we need to sack the manager. Same shit every season. Under MON we didn't play sexy enough, we didn't use the right subs, we didn't buy the right foreign stuff and what not. Lambert got more shit than I feel comfortable going into, which is awful considering how well he did on a championship budget. McLeish never had a chance. Sherwood, Garde, RDM and now Bruce were turned on faster than they could find a house. It's just how it is, and people need to stop it. So yes, people are fickle. Fans of this club are fickle. Arguably worse than with a lot of other clubs cause a lot of old farts grew up with us winning the league and the EC, and still think we have some divine right to be up there.

Fact is that we are shit. We have an awful football team with a big following, with high expectations . And we like to moan when we don't win. Thus we go through a ton of managers that never gets to settle a system with the players they want. Continuity is key.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Mon May 01, 2017 8:16 pm

Bruce is doing a poor job, with no indication that things are going to improve, for the simple reason he's not the right man to fit the club's wrongs.

As for our previous managers getting the sack that's because they failed, not because of fans moaning on the internet.

Everyone's sick of having to change managers, but that in itself is no reason not to get rid of one, that's failing. As has been said many times, our problem isn't sacking managers, it's hiring the wrong ones in the first place.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Dazzle on Tue May 02, 2017 9:45 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Bruce is doing a poor job, with no indication that things are going to improve, for the simple reason he's not the right man to fit the club's wrongs.

As for our previous managers getting the sack that's because they failed, not because of fans moaning on the internet.

Everyone's sick of having to change managers, but that in itself is no reason not to get rid of one, that's failing. As has been said many times, our problem isn't sacking managers, it's hiring the wrong ones in the first place.

Not much I can disagree with here. It's my belief that Bruce will be kept on into the new season and given every opportunity to make it work, I just happen to believe that it won't work. We've essentially just wasted 2/3 of a season, as I don't think anybody could seriously say they can see a noticeable improvement in that time having spent a good deal of money on some of the Leagues purported top players. I hope for a much improved team next season and to be proven wrong, however I will dampen my expectation levels to suit the current climate. We're really not very close to being good at all, certainly no closer than we were last summer.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by DelboyVilla on Tue May 02, 2017 10:00 am

Bruce has been with since November and had 35 games in control of this team and his record to date is 15 wins, 14 losses and 6 draws. If these were all league games we would have accumulated an average of 1.46 points per game which over a season would give us a total of 67 points and currently 8th place and well outside the playoffs (by 10 points). To get automatic promotion we need to be averaging over 2 points per game. Going on the current season Bruce needs to take his win ratio from 42% to 62%.

If continuity is keeping Bruce and finishing outside the top 2 or even the lottery that is the top 6 then I say no thanks to continuity!

We need a manager who can give us automatic promotion! IMO that's not Bruce!

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by NARLA24 on Tue May 02, 2017 10:43 am

Anyone think that Xia and his team will pull the plug or will Bruce still be with us for the start of next season?
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Tue May 02, 2017 10:56 am

Everything seems to be pointing towards him being here at the start of next season, and to let us know as such, I can see Xia and Wyness tweeting something along the lines of how they're looking forward to working with him in the summer.

But then again who knows, Wyness wasn't best pleased after Blackburn, and I think it's pretty unusual for him to go public on such matters.

Either way I've a feeling it will be a busy summer.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Dazzle on Tue May 02, 2017 11:04 am

@NARLA24 wrote:Anyone think that Xia and his team will pull the plug or will Bruce still be with us for the start of next season?

I'm assuming Bruce will be retained, but Xia does bring that element of surprise from what we've seen so far. I didn't think Bruce was the direction we should have taken at the time, I am less sold on him now than I was then! I think Xia is the type of guy who operates on opportunity, and if he thinks he can get someone better than the current sitting manager/coach then he'll not hesitate to replace. Doesn't matter if you are RDM, Bruce..........even a Mourinho, if Xia can get what he sees as better then you're gone. As I said a few days back, it's my belief that Bruce has already failed in his first target of reaching the playoffs. A club doesn't buy what we bought in January and expect to go on a two month losing streak and end up further away from the playoffs.............and we're finishing with a whimper. Nobody will convince me Xia is anything other than apoplectic about how this season has panned out since the start of 2017.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by AstonThriller on Tue May 02, 2017 5:57 pm

Just reading THIS article about Bruce's time at Sunderland and boy does it bring up some interesting points

Shortly after taking charge at Sunderland Steve Bruce was asked if he had considered experimenting with a Christmas Tree formation. "I'm not really into tactics," he replied. At the time that response was easy to interpret as a deliberately flippant or, perhaps, a self-deprecating means of avoiding answering the question. As the seasons passed, though, the suspicion grew that the former Manchester United captain had simply been honest.

Arguably one of the principal reasons Bruce is no longer in charge at the Stadium of Light concerns his apparent inability to tweak formations or tactics during matches. Whenever a rival manager re-configured his system mid-game, Bruce invariably failed to come up with a countermeasure.

In recent months Alan Pardew, Mark Hughes, Roy Hodgson and, most recently, Roberto Martínez have all seemingly out-thought him as Sunderland dropped points against supposedly weaker sides they really should have beaten.

If he failed to cut it as a tactician, the 50-year-old did not seem much of a strategist either. Including loans, 30 players were signed – several of whom have subsequently been moved on – during Bruce's two-and-a-half years on Wearside. That represents an unsettling "churn" factor and hardly proved conducive to developing either a clear playing philosophy or strong team spirit.

Always rather amorphous, if not downright scrappy, Sunderland's high-tempo style lacked creativity, not to mention control, in central midfield. Unable to dictate play, the team frequently failed to press home early advantages.

In many ways Bruce's decision to make the hot-headed, yellow card-prone Lee Cattermole his captain proved emblematic of a rather gung-ho reign during which players such as David Meyler were rushed back from serious injuries only to suffer further complications, the idea of hiring a sports psychologist was dismissed and the manager boasted about his inability to send an email. While Bruce – who did finally learn how to log on last summer when the club issued him with an iPad – may well argue this lack of computer literacy was hardly relevant, many of his peers spend countless hours checking out the latest sports science innovations, researching transfer targets and analysing Prozone statistics on their increasingly indispensable laptops.

Unashamedly old school, Bruce believed that motivation was the key to management but the influx of overseas coaches has raised the Premier League's technical bar and despite his relative youth, he has begun to look suspiciously like a man whose era has passed.

Unlike many modern managers he did not coach the team himself, delegating that job to his assistant, Eric Black. While Bruce's undoubtedly engaging, humour-suffused, personality had a broad appeal, he fell out with quite a few players, most notably Kenwyne Jones, now at Stoke, and Anton Ferdinand, now at QPR and who had by common consensus finally emerged as Sunderland's outstanding defender when he was sold in August.

Shortly afterwards Sunderland's manager was badly let down by Titus Bramble, who faces a crown court trial on sexual assault charges in January. Other bad buys included Matthew Kilgallon, Christian Riveros, Marcos Angeleri and Paulo Da Silva. Meanwhile Craig Gardner, bought from Birmingham for £6m, has barely figured in the first team.

There were some good purchases along the way, too, such as Lorik Cana, Asamoah Gyan and, above all, Darren Bent . Unfortunately Bent had become desperate to leave Sunderland six months before his eventual move to Aston Villa in January. Cana headed to Turkey after just a year while Gyan has newly gone to United Arab Emirates on loan. Money evidently played a big part in all these deals, but it does not represent the entire behind-the-scenes story.

Something was clearly wrong because, as last season's promising beginning subsided into a post-new year collapse, managerial excuses increasingly became a recurring, if self-destructive, theme.

Sound familiar guys? We've seen he is tactically inept, We've seen how he has no philosophy, We've seen how his teams can't control a game, We've seen the new year collapse also!!!...Not to mention he still leaves the training stuff to his assistants. it's just the same old story isn't it? Just look at the league table and there's not a single "old school" manager in the top eleven places. All of them are pretty modern managers with philosophies that are lightyears ahead of Bruce. All FIVE foreign managers currently managing in the championship occupy the top six!!..that just says it all really.


Last edited by AstonThriller on Tue May 02, 2017 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Dazzle on Tue May 02, 2017 6:53 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:Just reading THIS article about Bruce's time at Sunderland it boy does it bring up some interesting points

Shortly after taking charge at Sunderland Steve Bruce was asked if he had considered experimenting with a Christmas Tree formation. "I'm not really into tactics," he replied. At the time that response was easy to interpret as a deliberately flippant or, perhaps, a self-deprecating means of avoiding answering the question. As the seasons passed, though, the suspicion grew that the former Manchester United captain had simply been honest.

Arguably one of the principal reasons Bruce is no longer in charge at the Stadium of Light concerns his apparent inability to tweak formations or tactics during matches. Whenever a rival manager re-configured his system mid-game, Bruce invariably failed to come up with a countermeasure.

In recent months Alan Pardew, Mark Hughes, Roy Hodgson and, most recently, Roberto Martínez have all seemingly out-thought him as Sunderland dropped points against supposedly weaker sides they really should have beaten.

If he failed to cut it as a tactician, the 50-year-old did not seem much of a strategist either. Including loans, 30 players were signed – several of whom have subsequently been moved on – during Bruce's two-and-a-half years on Wearside. That represents an unsettling "churn" factor and hardly proved conducive to developing either a clear playing philosophy or strong team spirit.

Always rather amorphous, if not downright scrappy, Sunderland's high-tempo style lacked creativity, not to mention control, in central midfield. Unable to dictate play, the team frequently failed to press home early advantages.

In many ways Bruce's decision to make the hot-headed, yellow card-prone Lee Cattermole his captain proved emblematic of a rather gung-ho reign during which players such as David Meyler were rushed back from serious injuries only to suffer further complications, the idea of hiring a sports psychologist was dismissed and the manager boasted about his inability to send an email. While Bruce – who did finally learn how to log on last summer when the club issued him with an iPad – may well argue this lack of computer literacy was hardly relevant, many of his peers spend countless hours checking out the latest sports science innovations, researching transfer targets and analysing Prozone statistics on their increasingly indispensable laptops.

Unashamedly old school, Bruce believed that motivation was the key to management but the influx of overseas coaches has raised the Premier League's technical bar and despite his relative youth, he has begun to look suspiciously like a man whose era has passed.

Unlike many modern managers he did not coach the team himself, delegating that job to his assistant, Eric Black. While Bruce's undoubtedly engaging, humour-suffused, personality had a broad appeal, he fell out with quite a few players, most notably Kenwyne Jones, now at Stoke, and Anton Ferdinand, now at QPR and who had by common consensus finally emerged as Sunderland's outstanding defender when he was sold in August.

Shortly afterwards Sunderland's manager was badly let down by Titus Bramble, who faces a crown court trial on sexual assault charges in January. Other bad buys included Matthew Kilgallon, Christian Riveros, Marcos Angeleri and Paulo Da Silva. Meanwhile Craig Gardner, bought from Birmingham for £6m, has barely figured in the first team.

There were some good purchases along the way, too, such as Lorik Cana, Asamoah Gyan and, above all, Darren Bent . Unfortunately Bent had become desperate to leave Sunderland six months before his eventual move to Aston Villa in January. Cana headed to Turkey after just a year while Gyan has newly gone to United Arab Emirates on loan. Money evidently played a big part in all these deals, but it does not represent the entire behind-the-scenes story.

Something was clearly wrong because, as last season's promising beginning subsided into a post-new year collapse, managerial excuses increasingly became a recurring, if self-destructive, theme.

Sound familiar guys? We've seen he is tactically inept, We've seen how he has no philosophy, We've seen how his teams can't control a game, We've seen the new year collapse also!!!...Not to mention he still leaves the training stuff to his assistants. it's just the same old story isn't it? Just look at the league table and there's not a single "old school" manager in the top eleven places. All of them are pretty modern managers with philosophies that are lightyears ahead of Bruce. All FIVE foreign managers currently managing in the championship occupy the top six!!..that just says it all really.

Yep, that's what I'm seeing. Hourihane seems to have become the fall guy for us over the last month or so, and its glaringly obvious that, actually, there was no thinking behind players bought in January to slot into a position.............you'd almost think they were bought to please Villa fan forums! And we've undoubtedly gotten worse as time has gone on. I'm sorry but for me Villa have to turn to somebody else this summer, we'll not make top 2 under Bruce I'm afraid.

I'd sooner have Dean Smith here
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by AstonThriller on Tue May 02, 2017 7:02 pm

@Dazzle wrote:
Yep, that's what I'm seeing. Hourihane seems to have become the fall guy for us over the last month or so, and its glaringly obvious that, actually, there was no thinking behind players bought in January to slot into a position.............you'd almost think they were bought to please Villa fan forums! And we've undoubtedly gotten worse as time has gone on. I'm sorry but for me Villa have to turn to somebody else this summer, we'll not make top 2 under Bruce I'm afraid.

I'd sooner have Dean Smith here

The game in the championship has progressed this season and dinosaurs like Bruce have been left behind. Two of his promotions were with teams who he'd taken down so they still had premiership quality within the squads. While his first promotion with Hull was a team Nigel Pearson had built. I just cannot see any reason to believe next season will be any different to the crap he has served up in these 30 odd games he's had this year. This summer we're gonna see how brave and ambitious Wyness, Round and Xia really are.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by FoxyAV on Tue May 02, 2017 9:19 pm

I've only been to two matches this season, the Reading (lucky) win and the Fulham match last month. I was so pissed off with Bruce who, when we went down to 10 men, didn't make a single change. Hogan was useless the entire match, with no one getting the ball to him and with every single one of their outfield players inside our half. We needed to dump the 3-5-1 formation and change to a 4-5, packing out the midfield with Hourihane and Lansbury ahead of Jedi, with (IIRC) Grealish on one side and Adomah on the other. Every time we had the ball we did a Guzan-Benteke and the goalie hoofed it forward to Hogan, who was completely isolated up front and lost the ball. Replacing Amavi with Audrey was ridiculous, why go to a 3-4-2 with no one but Grealish down the left? The team selection and formation from the start were incorrect, the tactics seemed to be hoof to the two strikers and that's it and nothing changed throughout the match to adapt to the loss of Kodjia and the way they were playing. Bruce did nothing whatsoever to try to win that match. I don't understand what he's there for if he doesn't coach the players and then blames them when he selects who plays and how and it doesn't work. I'm not interested in someone like that at our club. How long before he completely loses the dressing room?
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed May 03, 2017 11:51 am

Christophe Galtier leaving Saint-Étienne at the end of the season. Turned us down when Sherwood was fired, but only because he didn't want to leave his club in the middle of the season. Don't know much about him to be honest, but might be someone who'd come in to contention should Bruce leave.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Fpuppys on Fri May 05, 2017 4:01 pm

From the looks of this picture, it appears the DR has gone all Bruce Lee on him. I trust that will work wonders on our style of football.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by UnclePanda on Fri May 05, 2017 6:44 pm

Heard rumours Bilic future will be decided in the future. If he left, I wouldnt mind him taking over.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri May 05, 2017 7:04 pm

I think there's little to no chance of Bruce getting fired anytime soon. And when he does eventually go, I'm not sure that Round and Wyness will go for the 'progressive manager' that many, myself included, feel that we need. I mean so far we've under their running of the club, the candidates for the managers job have been Bruce, Pearson, Moyes, Clarke, Di Matteo and apparently Dyche.


Last edited by deadbuzzardalive on Fri May 05, 2017 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong thread)

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by De Kuip on Fri May 05, 2017 7:36 pm

@Fpuppys wrote:From the looks of this picture, it appears the DR has gone all Bruce Lee on him. I trust that will work wonders on our style of football.

apparently Bruce and Gabby both turned up at Ali Kebabas just as it was closing and there was only 1 kebab left.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by big ming on Fri May 05, 2017 9:28 pm

My prediction for the Brighton game is as follows:

Yet another fine footballing team will arrive at Villa Park and procee to show us how the beautiful game can be played both attractively and effectively whilst we boot the ball out of defence in a panic and fail to retain possession either in midfield or upfront.


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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Saunders82 on Fri May 05, 2017 11:08 pm

@big ming wrote:My prediction for the Brighton game is as follows:

Yet another fine footballing team will arrive at Villa Park and procee to show us how the beautiful game can be played both attractively and effectively whilst we boot the ball out of defence in a panic and fail to retain possession  either in midfield or upfront.


On the other hand the Villa could turn on the style and show us what we could have been watching all season and next, we live in hope hey. lol!
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Villa_Dan on Sat May 06, 2017 11:06 pm

Anyone know what actually happened with Bruce's boat race?

I'm hearing the Hutton rumour (and he's got a couple of broken ribs) and a GG rumour.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Jae1411 on Sun May 07, 2017 2:15 am

He had moles removed apparently

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by DelboyVilla on Sun May 07, 2017 8:40 am

@Jae1411 wrote:He had moles removed apparently

Why would anyone want to spy on the most one dimensional team in the league? Drumroll Please

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Villa_Dan on Sun May 07, 2017 9:18 am

@Jae1411 wrote:He had moles removed apparently

Yeah I ain't buying that. I've had more than 1 mole removed and 1. Haven't got incisions like he has not the number of stitches and 2. Both his eyes are swollen too which is more likely if someone popped him.

No way it was just having moles removed IMO
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Villa_Dan



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