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Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

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Bruce stays or Bruce goes?

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by AstonThriller on Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:02 pm

Yeah reading about Samba being asked to "stay on for our pre-season tour" suggests that Bruce will be stopping here for a while. Of course, the danger is if we flop in the first ten games again then the board will have to act again and as we've discovered this year it's a dangerous game when you're playing catch-up.

We will no doubt continue to be pragmatic under his leadership but we just have to hope that this next window gets us players who actually end up doing what "it says on the tin". We get two wingers who can give us ten goals each and a dominant midfielder who can both defend and attack, then I still believe we'll be hard to stop next season even with boring Bruce at the helm.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:55 pm

I'm not sure the Samba thing points to Bruce staying, in of itself. I know it points to Bruce making plans, but he's just training with the squad, it wouldn't cause any inconvenience if a new manger didn't want to sign him on, and Samba himself will be aware of that possibility.

The fact of the matter is that we've only lost three of the last twelve and won eight of those games, of course there's a bigger picture, but can't see the club being brave enough to sack him, with that backdrop. Maybe things will change if we lose the next two.

Wyness has said that next season promotion is the aim, and there will be no excuses for not achieving it, so I do think he'll have to get off to a flyer next season and constantly be in touch with the automatic spots. If we're struggling after say six games, I think he could go that early.


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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by AstonThriller on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:33 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I'm not sure the Samba thing points to Bruce staying, in of itself. I know it points to Bruce making plans, but he's just training with the squad, it wouldn't cause any inconvenience if a new manger didn't want to sign him on, and Samba himself will be aware of that possibility.

The fact of the matter is that we've only lost three of the last twelve and won eight of those games, of course there's a bigger picture, but can't see the club being brave enough to sack him, with that backdrop. Maybe things will change if we lose the next two.

Wyness has said that next season promotion is the aim, and there will be no excuses for not achieving it, so I do think he'll have to get off to a flyer next season and constantly be in touch with the automatic spots. If we're struggling after say six games, I think he could go that early.


Well HERE he talks about letting go of up to twelve players this summer and signing "four quality one's", so it certainly does look like the man is staying put for now.

As for who the four players could be. I suspect it's a keeper, central midfielder and two wingers. Although I think if we do let up to twelve players go then we'll need more than just four in.

The twelve I think will be..

Richards
Kozak
Elphick
Bunn
Amavi
Sanchez
Veretout
Gil
Gollini
Johnstone (back to United)
Mccormack
Cissokho

Not sure Mccormack will go tbh but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Trotters on Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:00 am

Looking at that list must make Xia want to cry. The shit players who are here are sucking wages and the players that are any good are on loan and not coming back.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:10 pm

If Bruce is still here next season then we won't go up, Round and Wyness should probably think about letting him go to save their own jobs.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by LVBrit on Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:18 pm

Was not a fan of Bruce when he was appointed but gave him the chance to prove me wrong. Have seen nothing to suggest he can get us promoted or even be remotely entertaining to watch. Dinosaur that belongs at the Natural History Museum and nowhere near Villa Park.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Joppe84 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:23 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:If Bruce is still here next season then we won't go up, Round and Wyness should probably think about letting him go to save their own jobs.

I think we will have a higher chance than him not being here.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by AstonThriller on Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:40 pm

@Joppe84 wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:If Bruce is still here next season then we won't go up, Round and Wyness should probably think about letting him go to save their own jobs.

I think we will have a higher chance than him not being here.

Not for me. He's a dinosaur who can't cope at a big club imo. It's ok when you're at Blues, Wigan, Hull etc, but the pressure is different here and that, along with his outdated philosophies, tells me he isn't the man to take us forward. TWELVE away defeats since Bruce came is quite staggering. If the board have any guts then they'll pull the trigger and get a man who can actually improve the players rather than blame them for everything and send them out with negative tactics.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Thinman on Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:16 pm

I think today's performance was typical of what we should expect from Bruce.

Let me have an inspired guess at how it's going to pan out.

Our destiny will be decided by decent, well-meaning men. Tony and Keith Wyness will, like the good ppl they are, stick with Bruce next season. They will support his summer clear out and provide the funds we need to buy 3/4 good new Championship players (sound familiar so far?).

I think a number of us will even get excited and optimistic with the squad as we approach August. Then the new season kicks off and despite grinding out a few narrow victories the slow, turgid and unconvincing football is still in evidence. Bruce is honest and says all the right things but is incapable of changing anything. Finally, with even the play offs looking like an unattainable dream, Tony accepts the inevitable and Bruce leaves. And so the pattern repeats itself and another season is wasted.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Thinman on Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:21 pm

Part 2 of my depressing post is that there is an alternative. Bite the bullet now - part with Bruce and invest in one of the new breed of young and exciting Championship managers who understand this league and can coach players to play with energy and tempo and on the front foot. Give a manager like that the financial support that other clubs around us can only dream of and the sky's the limit.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:33 pm

My only concern with sacking Bruce (but it's not a reason not to) is that we'll end up with someone like Moyes or Pardew, and so the cycle of outmoded styles of football setting the club back years, whilst others leave us behind, continues.

If the club are brave and sack him then we'll be in a better place to replace him than when Di Matteo and he were appointed, as we'll have an whole pre-season ahead of us.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by Joppe84 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:56 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@Joppe84 wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:If Bruce is still here next season then we won't go up, Round and Wyness should probably think about letting him go to save their own jobs.

I think we will have a higher chance than him not being here.

Not for me. He's a dinosaur who can't cope at a big club imo. It's ok when you're at Blues, Wigan, Hull etc, but the pressure is different here and that, along with his outdated philosophies, tells me he isn't the man to take us forward. TWELVE away defeats since Bruce came is quite staggering. If the board have any guts then they'll pull the trigger and get a man who can actually improve the players rather than blame them for everything and send them out with negative tactics.

It's quite obvious he's trying to make us play good football, but the team is too shit to grasp it. This isn't a Bruce issue at all. This is an issue about settling a squad and getting rid of shite players that dragged us into the mud. Throwing a tantrum for another manager sacking is beyond fucking ridiculous. Give it time.

And for the record when he stays on and gets it right, I hope a lot on here reflect on their fickleness and that they don't deserve it when we're promoted.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by De Kuip on Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:13 pm

@Joppe84 wrote:
@AstonThriller wrote:
@Joppe84 wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:If Bruce is still here next season then we won't go up, Round and Wyness should probably think about letting him go to save their own jobs.

I think we will have a higher chance than him not being here.

Not for me. He's a dinosaur who can't cope at a big club imo. It's ok when you're at Blues, Wigan, Hull etc, but the pressure is different here and that, along with his outdated philosophies, tells me he isn't the man to take us forward. TWELVE away defeats since Bruce came is quite staggering. If the board have any guts then they'll pull the trigger and get a man who can actually improve the players rather than blame them for everything and send them out with negative tactics.

It's quite obvious he's trying to make us play good football, but the team is too shit to grasp it. This isn't a Bruce issue at all. This is an issue about settling a squad and getting rid of shite players that dragged us into the mud. Throwing a tantrum for another manager sacking is beyond fucking ridiculous. Give it time.

And for the record when he stays on and gets it right, I hope a lot on here reflect on their fickleness and that they don't deserve it when we're promoted.

I've always found it a good strategy to ignore your posts as they never contain anything I'd class as either something of interest or relate in any way to what I'd consider worth reading but I have to say this time you've excelled yourself. How anyone who posts such carping negativity time after time has the brass neck to call any other posters on this forum fickle displays a level of hypocrisy that I can only marvel at. We know the noses like to call us fickle so it's an insult that I find particulary anti-villa, which I've long suspected you are. Can you not just have an alternative view without rolling out the superior attitude ffs.
Sorry, I think I started to have a bit of a go at the poster not the post, so I'll concentrate on a critique of your post: it's bollocks..........
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by smetro on Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:46 pm

OK - Ive been a staunch defender of Bruce - however i have also said I won't just blindy back him - I judge him on results.

Todays result and performance has me wavering - his post match press conferences he always say 'not good enough' - but then we serve up the same.

One things that really holds me back from calling for change - is who do we realistically get ? - Sure if we could get Sean Dyche I d make the change - but taking a punt on inexperienced , or maybe overseas manager - to me thats to much of a gamble.

Disagree ? - provide me some names then

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by AstonThriller on Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:34 pm

@Joppe84 wrote:

It's quite obvious he's trying to make us play good football, but the team is too shit to grasp it. This isn't a Bruce issue at all. This is an issue about settling a squad and getting rid of shite players that dragged us into the mud. Throwing a tantrum for another manager sacking is beyond fucking ridiculous. Give it time.

And for the record when he stays on and gets it right, I hope a lot on here reflect on their fickleness and that they don't deserve it when we're promoted.
LOL oh no "it's not the manager's fault" that HIS TEAM play crap!!!..oh no the players train themselves, devise the tactics and give the team talks!!..Bruce has nothing to do with it at all Laughing .
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by De Kuip on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:14 pm

@smetro wrote:OK - Ive been a staunch defender of Bruce - however i have also said I won't just blindy back him - I judge him on results.

Todays result and performance has me wavering - his post match press conferences he always say 'not good enough' - but then we serve up the same.

One things that really holds me back from calling for change - is who do we realistically get ? - Sure if we could get Sean Dyche I d make the change - but taking a punt on inexperienced , or maybe overseas manager - to me thats to much of a gamble.

Disagree ? - provide me some names then


No I agree with you and posted a couple of pages back exactly that dilemma. If I could name a few absolute shoo-ins I'd  be crying out for them now, but the only ones I'd have are either well established at their clubs like wagner or Houghton,  prem managers who wouldn't come to us or foreign managers who would be a gamble.  
It's a bit like me and Mrs DK are always talking about moving house (in fact she claims I've completed Rightmove) but every time we list all the different attributes we're looking for, the answer seems to always be where we are now.
Mind you to be fair I'm not looking for our house to get Villa into the Prem, but there again I can guarantee you our place is more entertaining in a Saturday than anything Bruce puts out.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:43 pm

There must be dozens of managers out there that could do a job for us, as long as one's prepared to look beyone the usual 'experienced' championship bores. Don't really get the aversion to foreign managers either, of the top six sides Brighton are the only team to have a manager from the UK; Garde and Houllier failed somewhat but then so have all our british managers recently so that doesn't tell us much.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:54 pm

Perhaps slightly ambitious but Cesare Prandelli is available and a Villa fan, also plays good football. If he's got nothing else on, he'd might just be open to giving it a go.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by AstonThriller on Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:52 am

@smetro wrote:OK - Ive been a staunch defender of Bruce - however i have also said I won't just blindy back him - I judge him on results.

Todays result and performance has me wavering - his post match press conferences he always say 'not good enough' - but then we serve up the same.

One things that really holds me back from calling for change - is who do we realistically get ? - Sure if we could get Sean Dyche I d make the change - but taking a punt on inexperienced , or maybe overseas manager - to me thats to much of a gamble.

Disagree ? - provide me some names then


OSCAR GARCIA. Has Championship experience having been at Brighton and Watford. And also has champions league experience after winning titles in Isreal and Austria respectively. His coaching philosophy was developed in the Barcelona system so his style is very much pleasing on the eye.

MARCELO GALLARDO
is gonna be the next big thing too and there's a chance we could tempt him as I'm not sure the big guns will take him yet.

There is also the prospect of two of Stam, Wagner and Jokanovic being available in the summer time too. So the options are plentiful if the club are brave enough to go for it.

On December 10th 2016 I want to remind everyone that we were THREE POINTS behind 6th place with TWENTY-SIX games to go. Since then we spent another 20m and look at us? sixteen points behind and in danger of not even finishing in the top half...it's simply not good enough and I just don't believe Bruce can turn this around with his outdated philosophies.

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by DelboyVilla on Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:07 am

I am wavering less and less and I am sure I want this guy gone from our club. Another poor performance and result against a side we should be beating at a stroll. With the resources and games Bruce has had it is a disgrace that we are sat in mid-table stagnating and heading for the same finish next year!

As for replacements? With our current stock and reputation we can attract all but the very elite managers but another year of mid table mediocrity and we will be swimming with the likes of dodgy 'arry and co? Luckily it is not my job to find the replacement but I hope we do more than just a few statistical calculations by eggheads who have never watched any sport in their lives past the odd game of chess?

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by De Kuip on Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:46 am

I think what I was trying to say and not doing it very well is that Villa seem to have become a club where any managerial appointment seems like a gamble. Or at least that's what our more recent history seems to show. Appointing a new manager can be a gamble for any club, I get that, but feck me we seem to screw up on too many appointments. I know the club has been broken for a long time but I'm amazed at how little a succession of managers seem to have impacted on the needed turnaround. It felt for a while that we were speed dating our way to a perfect partner and that didn't work, so we went for the fat bird who was unspectacular but reliable. Turns out even she is a sad disappointment whose approach to improving the home is to constantly shift the position of the furniture.
I think it's time we went for a mail order Russian bride, cos I'm running out of inspiration here.
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by DelboyVilla on Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:51 am

Well DK according to the emails I get spammed with regularly the net can also be broadened to Brazilian Beauties????

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:19 am

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but this reads like advocating sticking with Bruce for the sake of consistency to me.

Dr. Tony Xia‏Verified account @Dr_TonyXia
Stay hungry,stay mediocre. There is not such talented thing for most ppl, only consistent devoted hard working can bring real confidence.


Rongtian also talk about stability on twitter...

Rongtian He‏ @VillansHo Apr 28
Will be a much better planned summer transfer window, some key additions, need more stability. #UTV



And here Wyness seems to be pointing the finger at the players rather than Bruce...

keith wyness‏Verified account @retsub12 14h
I dont think i have ever been so angry about a performance from a team i work with , unacceptable as SB said

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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by De Kuip on Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:58 pm

@DelboyVilla wrote:Well DK according to the emails I get spammed with regularly the net can also be broadened to Brazilian Beauties????

Yeah sorry mate I'll stop sending them.....
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Re: Bruce stays or Bruce goes. All in here thread.

Post by AstonThriller on Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:54 pm

A list of Bruce's post-match comments after diabolical performances

Norwich away

Aston Villa manager Steve Bruce:

"I can accept getting beat, what I can't accept is players not putting their boots on, not turning up.

"We did not do enough with the ball or without it and we got exactly what we deserved from the game - nothing. I can't remember a chance, I can't remember a cross going into their box, and the number of times we gave the ball away was totally unacceptable.


"Everything was set up for us after our late winner against Wigan at the weekend and I thought we would go into the game bouncing, but it never happened.

"Norwich were on the back of a tough run but we didn't put them under any pressure at all. You have got to play at a certain level if you want to play for Aston Villa and they didn't come anywhere near to reaching that.

"Having seen that I can see why the club decided to make a change and bring me in."



Cardiff away

Aston Villa manager Steve Bruce: "It was a slow start - it was that slow that we stopped.

"That's two or three times we've done that now and the first half was nowhere near the performance required. The only thing I can put it down to is mentality.

"We're arguably the biggest club in this division and that makes us a scalp but if we don't find the right mentality, we won't achieve what we want."



Wolves away

Bruce on Wolves defeat

"If that’s as good as we’ve got then it’s going to be a long and difficult winter.

We haven’t done enough and we’re going to have to question ourselves.

We’ve created very little and showed no cutting edge in the last three or four weeks if I’m being honest. It’s a bit of a problem.

We’ve got one or two players away but we’ve got to have a little bit more quality than what we’ve shown because that wasn’t good enough.

It concerns me all round, not just a lack of goals.

The initial honeymoon period of three or four months is over. We’ve got a big job on our hands to turn it around.

We thought there were shoots of recovery but there’s been too many bad performances now. I can’t accept it.

You can never say never in the Championship.

When I arrived we were in a relegation fight because we were in the bottom three. I’m not concerned about that.

We’ve got to be a club of our stature and look at what we’re trying to achieve at the other end of the table.

But, too many of them are used to getting beat and unfortunately it’s a bad habit to have.

We had some momentum going into the Christmas period and unfortunately we’ve lost back-to-back away games which isn’t good".



Brentford away

Aston Villa manager Steve Bruce: "We started brightly enough and had chances. Then we had to be better for the next 60 minutes, but we were poor all over the pitch both offensively and defensively against a very good Brentford side."

"We can't just keep thinking we are going to buy our way out of it. We have to look like a team and do the basics and in this division if you don't do the basics right, you have horrible nights like this.

"As soon as we conceded we went all over the place and didn't do a job at all. We have to question ourselves because it has to be a mentality we have to try to find away from home, where we are too easily beaten."



Barnsley at home

Aston Villa boss Steve Bruce told BBC WM:

"It's not good enough. That's for sure. We started off all right for the first 25 minutes and had a few chances but, as has happened over the last four or five weeks, we didn't take them, we make a mistake, we get punished and it goes round in a vicious circle. Confidence drains away, it takes over everything and it ends up being one of those ugly nights.

"We have to go back to the basics of what we were and how we changed things round when we first came in four months ago. We have to cut out the silly mistakes. We handed them two goals.

"The reason why we've got one of the biggest wage bills in the Championship is we've got to deal with the mentality and expectation. That's why they get paid more than anyone else in this division.

"But I'm convinced they are made of the right stuff and can get better, and it's my responsibility to make them better."



Reading at home

Aston Villa boss Steve Bruce: "I don't like getting beaten and I don't like getting beaten by sloppiness. I thought that was a thing of the past, a performance like that.

"I couldn't fault their effort but it was how they handled making a mistake, if you're going to play for a big club like this you've got to be able to handle that.

"We made more individual errors than we have done in the past three months. We have been punished and given really, really bad goals away."



Blackburn away

Aston Villa boss Steve Bruce:

"That's arguably the worst we've played since I've been here, but a big club like ours, away from home, four wins all season, is nowhere near good enough to where we should be.

"Too many times I've seen us play the way we did today, where we haven't done enough in every department.

"We were absolutely hopeless. Hopeless. And unfortunately away from home I've seen that too many times. Not good enough and I've been here the best part of six months and too many times I've come away like that and thought, 'Dear oh dear, that was inept'."


Bruce can yap on about "it wasn't good enough" all day long!!..but when are the board gonna realise that the main one who "isn't good enough" is actually the manager himself? Rolling Eyes TEN away defeats in seventeen games tells it all....three points away from the top six in December and now we'd be lucky if we make the top half!!!..it's time for change otherwise we will spend half of next season playing catch-up once again I fear.
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