Re: The Steve Bruce thread

[AstonThriller]

Have to give the man credit for sticking at it, because I was convinced if he'd lost against Derby he would have been in serious trouble.

[Trotters]

He said immediately after the Burton game that we're not playing very well and that there's a mental frailty about the side without Kodja. All things we know to be true but he didn't end the interview on any note of self-reflection.

I found that strange and I wonder if it was a shot at the coaching staff? After all, he's got the players that can certainly (easily) win this league, we've the best form in the league currently, we've a director of football who would have a "way" that he expects us to play yet for all that, the football is pretty grim.

It boils down to Kodjia knocking in a goal and the defence desperately ensuring nothing gets let in. As a team, there's no coherence, there no method or style. Quite bizarre if you look at the quality we have in our midfield.

We are, without doubt, significantly less than the sum of our parts. And that surely has to be on the shoulders of the coaching team? Yes, Bruce is obviously the overseer of that but if he's asked for certain styles of play to be implemented and it's not happened then I don't expect the coaching staff to be around for much longer.

He was going mad on the touch line according to Radio WM so clearly there's a disconnect between what he wants and what's being achieved.

Given that this season is finished, I'd not be surprised - in fact I'd encourage it - to see the coaching staff go and be replaced by people significantly better. Because surely Bruce realises that, despite this run of results, we're not actually much of a football team. I think he knows that next season will see the pressure ramped up exponentially and he'll want to give himself the best chance he can to keep his rolling contract rolling.

Our preparation for pre-season needs to start now.

[AstonThriller]

Like RDM this season, I think those first twelve games next season will be crucial for Bruce. If we fall behind then I have no doubts whatsoever that he'll be gone aswell. Needs a good pre-season and he needs to stack up that midfield with real quality. Especially in those wide areas. We can't go season after season with a midfield who can't hit a barn door while counting on one player to bail us out time and time again. We got away with it for three years when Tekkers used to save us because all we needed to do is win eleven games in the prem. But when you need to win 25 plus games then you need contributions from all over the pitch and we simply don't have that at the moment.

[The Utterer]

It is a concern this "playing crap" thing. We are clearly seeing SB's battling mentality being imprinted on the team but as he said himself this team needs "magic". It just fails to grab a game by the throat and dominate winning by 3, 4 or 5 goals which considering the players seems wrong somehow.

Very difficult to pinpoint but there is still a lot of work to be done to turn this side into promotion material.

Next season we will have Wolves, three of Derby, Leeds, Huddersfield, Reading & Fulham plus the three relegated teams with money to spend and most likely a surprise team or two to worry about so it'll be tough again.

[AstonThriller]

Seeing Norwich put seven past Reading and I just thought "Wow..we can barely score three, let alone seven". And it's true isn't it? Nine times out of ten we usually take the lead, but there seems to be a mental block that prevents us from going on and really putting teams to the sword. Fulham, Brentford, Preston, Norwich etc all have it. Hell even Sheff Wed put five past a team the other day. This is why I keep harping on about goals from midfield because this is the biggest weakness of the side and has been for a very long time. IF this is not addressed in the summer then we will be in for more heartache next season imo.

[achilles]

I fully expected Hourihane and Landsbury to have solved the goal scoring problem we had but unfotunately they have caught the Villa malaise of becoming nothing like the player they were at their previous clubs!

Why does this happen?

[AstonThriller]

I fully expected Hourihane and Landsbury to have solved the goal scoring problem we had but unfotunately they have caught the Villa malaise of becoming nothing like the player they were at their previous clubs!

Why does this happen?

With Hourihane I'm prepared to give him next season before making a full judgement on him because to his credit he has been getting in positions to score goals but just hasn't be able to put the ball in the back of the net. Against Rotherham he had several good chances, at Huddersfield he missed a one on one, against Sheff Wed he pulled a shot wide when well placed, against Norwich he hit the bar with a header etc. So that's where we can be encouraged. But Lansbury has barely got into the box has he? And this is why Jedinak's position should also be assessed because though he's been fantastic defensively he's offered absolutely nothing going forward. We need a central two who can contribute in box boxes and wide men who can score and create goals on a regular basis.

[The Utterer]

I'm hoping the team we are seeing at the moment was a reaction to the 9 defeat run we had before the winning run. That this is the embattled version so to speak to get us out of the mire and as a result of a crazy number of injuries we have had this season.

With a full pre season, lets not forget it'll be the 1st one for the manager and coaching staff, i hope to see a much more cohesive unit emerge next season, especially with a few more quality additions.

Maybe we are expecting too much too soon?

Time will tell

[Trotters]

Seeing Norwich put seven past Reading and I just thought "Wow..we can barely score three, let alone seven". And it's true isn't it? Nine times out of ten we usually take the lead, but there seems to be a mental block that prevents us from going on and really putting teams to the sword. Fulham, Brentford, Preston, Norwich etc all have it. Hell even Sheff Wed put five past a team the other day. This is why I keep harping on about goals from midfield because this is the biggest weakness of the side and has been for a very long time. IF this is not addressed in the summer then we will be in for more heartache next season imo.

I can't recall who on here that I had a similar conversation with, listing the sides that had scored 4 or 5 goals in one game. It seemed that most of the teams in this league had achieved it...even Blues have done it twice. Yet it seems beyond us to actually "click", play the full 90 minutes and give someone a proper spanking.

For the money spent, grinding out results with low possession and low quality is poor.

[DelboyVilla]

Seeing Norwich put seven past Reading and I just thought "Wow..we can barely score three, let alone seven". And it's true isn't it? Nine times out of ten we usually take the lead, but there seems to be a mental block that prevents us from going on and really putting teams to the sword. Fulham, Brentford, Preston, Norwich etc all have it. Hell even Sheff Wed put five past a team the other day. This is why I keep harping on about goals from midfield because this is the biggest weakness of the side and has been for a very long time. IF this is not addressed in the summer then we will be in for more heartache next season imo.

I can't recall who on here that I had a similar conversation with, listing the sides that had scored 4 or 5 goals in one game. It seemed that most of the teams in this league had achieved it...even Blues have done it twice. Yet it seems beyond us to actually "click", play the full 90 minutes and give someone a proper spanking.

For the money spent, grinding out results with low possession and low quality is poor.

It is beyond all logic and reason and I really think that if our manager and coaches got hold of the current Barca team that they would soon be playing the Villa brand of low possession and low quality and grinding out results?

[Trotters]

There's a loose screw somewhere.

[DelboyVilla]

There's a loose screw somewhere.

Is that the Agbonlahor family motto?

Or a description of Bruce's daughters morals?

[4BetLite]

Oh, the joys of being in a position of worrying about how we win.

[Guest]

There's a loose screw somewhere.

Pleases me to see a native English speaker knowing the difference between lose and loose.

[AstonThriller]

So the guy has been here for the majority of the season and can someone tell me what his style is please? Because I can't fathom it right now. I can't help but take my mind back to the Sherwood era when he first arrived and it was obvious the only tactics we had was to get it to Benteke as much as possible. And the same is true now with Kodjia isn't it?

I can't think of a single win under Bruce where we were completely dominant and bossed a game. And this is why I'm fearful about next season because the teams who get promoted have to win around 25 games in this league. But our "score and hang on" philosophy can only get you so far in this league.

After the season is done I hope the board sit down and have a serious think about the direction they want to take this club. Most of the teams in the top eight have foreign first team coaches. Leeds have a Spanish bloke, Toon have Spanish coaches, Brentford have coaches from Denmark and Poland, Sheff Wed Portuguese, Huddersfield German and Reading Dutch etc. And these guys are out on the training fields with their respective teams day in, day out. So is it any wonder they know how to keep the ball better than us?

Brentford's structure from top to bottom is brilliant!!..they are building a philosophy down there and we're seeing it bear fruit right now.

Wyness spoke about building "a team for promotion, then a team to stay up, and then a team to challenge the top six"...but wouldn't it be better to build a structure that can take us up the league without having to chop and change all the time? It's exactly what Swansea did and they ended up winning a trophy.

Bruce has had some good spells but I'm finding it hard to believe he's the right man to take us forward with the current methods he's using tbh...if he proves me wrong then great but I just get the feeling we'll be up and down again next season and it may cost us promotion in the end.

[achilles]

I must admit that I don't have much confidence in Bruce to take us forward, he doesn't have a clue really. Yesterday was a case in point, a strong side put out again but they played crap again especially as it was obvious Kodjia wasn't fully fit, he just seems like the only option at the moment! Bacuna at left back yesterday after Amavi went off, what the hell is that about?

Agree with @AstonThriller regarding the way forward, much prefer a structure in place rather than three sides for whichever stage of our 'progress'.

Next week could easily be the tipping point, if heaven forbid the worse was to happen!!

[smetro]

So the guy has been here for the majority of the season and can someone tell me what his style is please? Because I can't fathom it right now. I can't help but take my mind back to the Sherwood era when he first arrived and it was obvious the only tactics we had was to get it to Benteke as much as possible. And the same is true now with Kodjia isn't it?

I can't think of a single win under Bruce where we were completely dominant and bossed a game. And this is why I'm fearful about next season because the teams who get promoted have to win around 25 games in this league. But our "score and hang on" philosophy can only get you so far in this league.

After the season is done I hope the board sit down and have a serious think about the direction they want to take this club. Most of the teams in the top eight have foreign first team coaches. Leeds have a Spanish bloke, Toon have Spanish coaches, Brentford have coaches from Denmark and Poland, Sheff Wed Portuguese, Huddersfield German and Reading Dutch etc. And these guys are out on the training fields with their respective teams day in, day out. So is it any wonder they know how to keep the ball better than us?

Brentford's structure from top to bottom is brilliant!!..they are building a philosophy down there and we're seeing it bear fruit right now.

Wyness spoke about building "a team for promotion, then a team to stay up, and then a team to challenge the top six"...but wouldn't it be better to build a structure that can take us up the league without having to chop and change all the time? It's exactly what Swansea did and they ended up winning a trophy.

Bruce has had some good spells but I'm finding it hard to believe he's the right man to take us forward with the current methods he's using tbh...if he proves me wrong then great but I just get the feeling we'll be up and down again next season and it may cost us promotion in the end.

Think youre overthinking this one AT.

we started the season with a foreign coach - as did wolves and nottinham forest and I am sure there are others. Brighton look set to finish top with an english guy in charge.
When you say build a structure what precisely do you mean ? - Xia is the owner , Wyness is CEO , Bruce is the manager. If results are not good enough we change the manager. What is it about that structure that differs from (for example) Brentford - If Brentfords results are poor what will they do with that structure ?. From what I gather Steve Round heads up matters non 1st team. Should Bruce go - I imagine that structure will remain in place.

A big whack of our problems come from poor choice of managers. Since MON IMO there have only been 2 managers that didn't look doomed from day 1. Lambert and Bruce- all the others looked very long shots to succeed. I've been disappointed in Bruce, I thought he would get us to the play offs. that said dumping him now and taking a punt on some overseas manager with a fancy name would be a disastrous move IMO. I thinking managing Aston Vila is vastly different to managing Reading, Huddersfield, etc - the weight of expectation is so much greater for one thing.
Bruce has next season and possibly the one after to get us promotion, and Im fine with that. I don't see who we could with a better record in this division. I don't jetting an overseas coach right now would acheive anything.

[AstonThriller]

Think youre overthinking this one AT.

we started the season with a foreign coach - as did wolves and nottinham forest and I am sure there are others. Brighton look set to finish top with an english guy in charge.

Firstly Di Matteo is a manager who's coaching methods have been moulded in England. Also who held the training sessions? Steve Clark and Kevin Bond..BOTH BRITISH. And though you may be right about Brighton, I'd argue they don't actually keep possession as well as the other teams I named and are pretty much the "Leicester" of this division. They get by with great organisation and hitting teams on the counter. We'll see how they cope next season in the prem, personally, I think they might struggle.

When you say build a structure what precisely do you mean ? - Xia is the owner , Wyness is CEO , Bruce is the manager. If results are not good enough we change the manager. What is it about that structure that differs from (for example) Brentford - If Brentfords results are poor what will they do with that structure ?. From what I gather Steve Round heads up matters non 1st team. Should Bruce go - I imagine that structure will remain in place.

A structure is having a philosophy/Style you play, and then putting the coaches in place from the youth levels to the u23s and then the senior level. Which means any youngster who progresses through the ranks will be in the mould of players we need at the senior level and also the head coaches you employ must have a style that fits in with the philosophy of our choice. To go from RDM to Bruce suggests there's no philosophy or structure in place. Brentford have it, Southampton have it, Swansea had it etc.

A big whack of our problems come from poor choice of managers. Since MON IMO there have only been 2 managers that didn't look doomed from day 1. Lambert and Bruce- all the others looked very long shots to succeed. I've been disappointed in Bruce, I thought he would get us to the play offs. that said dumping him now and taking a punt on some overseas manager with a fancy name would be a disastrous move IMO. I thinking managing Aston Vila is vastly different to managing Reading, Huddersfield, etc - the weight of expectation is so much greater for one thing.
Bruce has next season and possibly the one after to get us promotion, and Im fine with that. I don't see who we could with a better record in this division. I don't jetting an overseas coach right now would acheive anything.

Well you don't seem to like foreign managers do you? Which is why you was against RDM and backing Pearson for the job. Both of them ended up getting sacked. And your line of thinking is what will hold this club back if the board subscribe to similar views. Marco Silva has gone into Hull and look at what he's done there? Dinosaur British managers aren't prospering in the premiership and it's not a coincidence. Football is changing and we need to catch up, and fast. Southampton hiring Poch was the best thing they ever did, then they got Koeman in!!..look at both managers now?

I think Bruce's position will be determined by the finish we have to this season!!..lose another five on the spin then he'll be gone imo. If he does ok then he'll get the first ten games of next season. If you think he'll still be here by Christmas if we're lagging behind I think you'll end up being very disappointed.

[De Kuip]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say I don't believe we'll get back into the prem with Bruce at the helm. When he took over I posted on more than one occasion that his teams were always bang average and I could never see a style of play other than ultra conservative grind out a win/don't lose too heavily.
Nothing indicates to me that anything is much changed. As mentioned above, some of his team selections are plain odd and - injuries aside, I still think there are too many changes in personnel and position.
I'll support him if he remains at the helm, of course I will as I want success for us, but do I think he's the right manager for the job? No I don't,  but given what was available 10 games in to a season for a championship club, there wasn't a lot of choice.
I think the club will stick with him, so I really hope 3 or 4 player in the off season and a good start next year will see the improvements we need. If we can finish 3-4 wins behind the last playoff place this year after some of the dross we've seen, maybe I'm being too pessimistic about next year. Thing is would we want to scrape into the lottery of the play offs cos auto promotion looks a long way off where we are now, when you think how good Newcastle and Brighton have looked this year,  we'd have to be that good next year and I'm not sure I can see that level of improvement happening as things stand.

[smetro]

AT Wrote
"A structure is having a philosophy/Style you play, and then putting the coaches in place from the youth levels to the u23s and then the senior level. Which means any youngster who progresses through the ranks will be in the mould of players we need at the senior level and also the head coaches you employ must have a style that fits in with the philosophy of our choice. To go from RDM to Bruce suggests there's no philosophy or structure in place. Brentford have it, Southampton have it, Swansea had it etc."

How do you know that isn't happening already? - Steve round has only been here since September.
Did the swansea structure come up with the appointment of Bob Bradley ?
You say a structure is a philosophy and a style of play - but what does that mean in practical terms ? foreign coaches ? another punt at tippy tappy football ? all the teams from youth to first team playing the same way ?. sounds fine in theory but would it really have any impact - and our youth u23's seem to be doing pretty well at the moment.

sure if Bruce has an RDM style start to next season he will get the sack and rightly so. The same should apply to any future manager english or overseas - whether he has a philosophy that we like or not.

[Guest]

We need to give him a couple of seasons and a couple of windows.

[AstonThriller]

How do you know that isn't happening already? - Steve round has only been here since September.

Well having watched the u18s and u23s play it certainly doesn't look like anything has changed. and like I said before why appoint RDM, and then replace him with Bruce if there is a style of play the club want to adopt? Both of them managers are totally different.  

Did the swansea structure come up with the appointment of Bob Bradley ?

They are under American owners now which is why they are making mistakes. Before that they got Roberto Martinez, Brendon Rodgers, Michael Laudrup, Gary Monk etc!!..all of them like to keep the ball on the floor...see the pattern?

You say a structure is a philosophy and a style of play - but what does that mean in practical terms ? foreign coaches ? another punt at tippy tappy football ?

It doesn't have to be a foreign coach as Brendon Rodgers and Gary Monk have demonstrated with the style they are playing. And a philosophy can be anything from being "tippy tappy", to being a "physical and direct team", to being a side packed full of pace who likes to sit deep and play on the counter. We simply have no identity and that's what's killed us over the last five years imo...we rely on one player like Benteke and kodjia to bail us out, that's it.

all the teams from youth to first team playing the same way ?. sounds fine in theory but would it really have any impact - and our youth u23's seem to be doing pretty well at the moment.

The problem is our youth teams may do well but how comes so many are let go and thrive elsewhere? If we have a structure that teaches them the style of play our first team plays then it will be easier for youngsters to progress into the senior team.

sure if Bruce has an RDM style start to next season he will get the sack and rightly so. The same should apply to any future manager english or overseas - whether he has a philosophy that we like or not.

I think fans will be able to be more patient IF we see something special taking place. If we were playing great football under RDM and he had the same start I think he would have been afforded more time. But because we were quite uninspiring to watch and he was changing systems left, right and centre, he just came off as someone who didn't know what he was doing..so he had to go. But if someone comes in with the right approach, I think they'd get a little more time tbh. But next year we're gonna be under pressure to go up so whoever is managing us will be under the cosh from the start.

[deadbuzzardalive]

We're wasting our time with Bruce, if we stick with him for the sake of stability then next season will be another wasted season; the way he has us playing will never see us win enough games to get promoted.

[Saunders82]

I'm all for giving him the summer to weed out the rubbish still lying around the club, bring in a few key players to strengthen the squad and get a good preseason into everyone. This season we had too many changes not all of them good and we had an absolutely terrible start and were always chasing things from then on, if we get someone new in then it all has to start again, when Ron Saunders ( One of the best managers we have ever had) came to the club things didn't happen overnight same with Taylor, keep the faith.

[The Utterer]

He's had an unbelieveable number of injuries to negotiate around and a few pillocks too lest we forget!

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