Tim Sherwood: Villa reject

Is the Mirror article an insight into what's really going on, an explanation as to all the chopping and changing - and the reason behind his comments about not knowing his best team?

If players were to be brought in for him he must have known that this when he took the job but I wouldn't put it past the arrogant twat to think he would get his own way (with transfers) and because he didn't he's behaving like a spoiled brat deliberately fucking everything up to 'prove' that he was right.

It make sense out of something that is otherwise unfathomable.

He really does have to go very quickly - before the damage that he's doing gets beyond repair for this season.

Tim did say that he had the final say on all transfer dealings!
Therefore he might not have actually scouted them but he has accepted them, if that makes any sense!

What doesn't make any sense to me is the teams he's picking, the tactics he's deploying, the fact that he says he doesn't know his best team and the lack of thought behind his substitutions - he's either a total numpty or he's deliberately trying to screw it up!

Either way we should get shot.

So Allardyce in at Newcastle. A man who consistently avoids relegation - who wouldn't be interested in him ? - Well not Tom Fox for one.
Today we signed our relegation death note

Is he getting in his 'beyond my control' excuse before he is sacked?

I normally ignore red top speculation but the same story is in the Telegraph so ..........

Hopefully we win both of these matches, but we all know we most likely will lose them both. So who's the new manager then? Brenda? I'd rather have Rodgers than Moyes that's for damn sure.

He's also blaming the players as not being ready for the premier league.

It's all over for him now. No more newbies, no more managers who have had good records at little clubs; what we need is a manager who's been there and done it at big clubs with big names.

Sam would have done nicely and, whilst I'm no huge fan of Rodgers, I won't cry if we get him.

Interesting that not one person who voted in the poll said Sherwood needs a full season. Not even as a wind-up. I don't even think LLDLLLLambert sank that low.

We need to get in a successful manager, I am sick to death of being linked to managers who have been recently sacked. We have constantly shown our lack of ambition by the managers we have gone for.

It's kinda hard to do that when you are arguably the worst team in the league.

Liverpool picked up Rodgers when he was at Swansea IIRC? We can't do that, because we got fuck all to offer. We got an owner that doesn't invest, stadium we can't fill for toffee, and we are utter shit. Why would any successful PL manager come to us?

Rodgers is even a pipe dream at this stage I reckon.

And to be fair, thinking of it, I'm not sure I want Rodgers either. He will probably not shut up about Liverpool this and Liverpool that through every fucking interview.

Might as well go for a solid championship manager.

Joppe84 wrote:It's kinda hard to do that when you are arguably the worst team in the league.

Oh, I don't think we're the worst team in the league, Sherwood just seems to have sucked all the enthusiasm out of them.

First goal at Liverpool, you don't get to see it, but there's no celebration. None. Nada. We're 2-1 at Liverpool away and are back in the game and no one wants to be there:

If we sacked Sherwood and got Rodgers it would go a long way to proving Fox is a cunning and convincing motherfucker, and probably a good liar!!!

It's about time we had someone like that incharge Dan :)

Villa_Dan wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tim-sherwood-given-two-games-6610295

I don't give credence to one aspect of that story, that being him having been told he has two games to save his position. I don't doubt that might be the reality, as in that's what was concluded at board level crisis talks. "OK, so we are all agreed? Give him the next two games to bag at least one win - realistically we 're targeting our home game against Swansea - or we have to go with plan B. Plan B being contract termination and a replacement. Let's agree now on our list of targets for that replacement, should it become necessary"

Seems funny using the term crisis talks this early in the season but that's where we are. Liverpool and Sunderland acknowledged that for them, crisis time had arrived, albeit their respective "crises" are against somewhat different expectation levels. However, in both cases, as with us, the point is the results simply aren't good enough - whether it be threat of relegation or threat of mid-table - and change is necessary.

Anyway, I would be more inclined to think he has been told something along the lines of,"everyone wants things to improve quickly, we'll support you as much as we can". That, essentially, tells him things have to get better but leaves them the latitude to pull the trigger whenever they chose - when they can't support him any longer.

The only scenario I can imagine he would have been given some kind of target is if he is being subjected to a performance management process prior to possible dismissal. I've had to do it myself as a manager because it was part of the company procedures to ensure they don't fall foul of tribunals. Meetings, performance reviews, highlighting behaviours or performance to be improved upon, setting targets and reviewing again, fucking warnings, official warnings, final warnings, etc etc. An interminable process in many companies just to stop some waster or neurotic bitch from gouging the company for £10k for unfair dismissal. It costs more than that in management manhours to do all that crap but I get the impression in the world of football management the process is a little different. Despite that little shitehawk MON taking AVFC to court, severance seems to be usually relatively straightforward.

Villa_Dan wrote:If we sacked Sherwood and got Rodgers it would go a long way to proving Fox is a cunning and convincing motherfucker, and probably a good liar!!!

Really ? - It would confirm what already fear about Tom Fox - A fine record in the commercial world, but a complete novice as a CEO of a big premiership club.

He'd be replacing one manager who can't organise a defence - with another - Indeed I think Rodgers is the one manager that Tim out thought tactility last season - and now that very guy is being lined up as his replacement ........you couldn't make it up , you really couldn't...

Joppe84 wrote:It's kinda hard to do that when you are arguably the worst team in the league.

Liverpool picked up Rodgers when he was at Swansea IIRC? We can't do that, because we got fuck all to offer. We got an owner that doesn't invest, stadium we can't fill for toffee, and we are utter shit. Why would any successful PL manager come to us?

Rodgers is even a pipe dream at this stage I reckon.

And to be fair, thinking of it, I'm not sure I want Rodgers either. He will probably not shut up about Liverpool this and Liverpool that through every fucking interview.

Might as well go for a solid championship manager.

Goodness me put this on the KRO forum and i bet they'd be loving it . I simply cannot agree with such negativity. We've got a very talented squad that are simply being mismanaged..nothing more nothing less. Even behind the scenes now the club appears to have a decent structure  now with Fox, Reilly and Armsted. Something we never had in the past.

If Pardew can turn Palace around and Hughes can turn Stoke around why on earth couldn't a decent manager do the same with one this sleeping giant? If/when Tim goes my glass will most certainly be half full...and i suspect a lot of quality managers will see the young prospects we have here and want to get involved.

smetro wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:If we sacked Sherwood and got Rodgers it would go a long way to proving Fox is a cunning and convincing motherfucker, and probably a good liar!!!

Really ? - It would confirm what already fear about Tom Fox - A fine record in the commercial world, but a complete novice as a CEO of a big premiership club.

He'd be replacing one manager who can't organise a defence - with another - Indeed I think Rodgers is the one manager that Tim out thought tactility last season - and now that very guy is being lined up as his replacement ........you couldn't make it up , you really couldn't...

I think that's a tad harsh. This season thus far Liverpool have let in ten goals compared to Chelsea's seventeen who lets remember has the "defensive master" that is Mourinho. At Swansea his defensive record was perfectly fine aswell...i'm sure he would have been looking at the defence this season and putting things in place to tighten it but the bottom line remains that at Anfield he has a 50% win ratio. And at the end of the day winning is all that counts.

Are we really suggesting that we'd like Big Sam and Pulis? defensive coaches who've achieved nothing in the game? Rodgers took Liverpool within an inch of the title and along the way outwitted the likes of Wenger, Pellegrini, Moyes etc!!..so Tim winning one game against him is futile imo.

Like Ember, I'd be stunned if the board has decided recently to give Sherwood two games to get three points and alerted (leaked) the media to this.

It's more likely that, somehow, the terms of his employment have gotten out and those terms state that if we're in the relegation zone for x number of weeks, the manager will be fired.

Let's remember that Foxhad Lambert's contract re-written to reflect that exact scenario so there's no way - NO WAY - that Sherwood doesn't have a trap-door in his contract somewhere.

Having said that, if we suffer unlucky loses to both Chelsea and Swansea showing a massively improved level of flair and commitment from the players and a huge leap in professionalism from the management/coaching team, then I can see a stay of execution. But if his comments in the press are anything to go by, Sherwood knows he's a dead-man walking, has lost the changing-room and has no idea (nor will) to pull us out of it.

Rodger's tried to improve the Liverpool defence 3 times and each time their "Transfer Committee" rejected the players he wanted as they deemed them too old and with little resale value. 

I'm willing to give BR a lot more credence for what he did at Swansea than I take away for what happened at Liverpool

Trotters wrote:Like Ember, I'd be stunned if the board has decided recently to give Sherwood two games to get three points and alerted (leaked) the media to this.

It's more likely that, somehow, the terms of his employment have gotten out and those terms state that if we're in the relegation zone for x number of weeks, the manager will be fired.

Let's remember that Foxhad Lambert's contract re-written to reflect that exact scenario so there's no way - NO WAY - that Sherwood doesn't have a trap-door in his contract somewhere.

Having said that, if we suffer unlucky loses to both Chelsea and Swansea showing a massively improved level of flair and commitment from the players and a huge leap in professionalism from the management/coaching team, then I can see a stay of execution. But if his comments in the press are anything to go by, Sherwood knows he's a dead-man walking, has lost the changing-room and has no idea (nor will) to pull us out of it.

I would doubt there is any such clause.

I think most likley Tom Fox hasn't as yet been vocal in his suuport for Sherwood - loose the next 2 - that will be six on the bounce - people are assuming (rightly) that Tom Fox may pull the trigger at that point - I don't think there is anything more to it than that.

Villa_Dan wrote:Rodger's tried to improve the Liverpool defence 3 times and each time their "Transfer Committee" rejected the players he wanted as they deemed them too old and with little resale value. 

I'm willing to give BR a lot more credence for what he did at Swansea than I take away for what happened at Liverpool

But thats the world we live in- no manager will get all the players he wants. Its a forgotten fact that Peter Withe was only purchased because the board blocked the purchase of Mick Fergusson at the tail end of the previous season.

Sherwood will no doubt claim that he wasn't party to the players signed - and use that as an excuse - I don't totally buy it - Nor do I buy rodgers excuses at Liverpool - After all should Rodgers come to villa he will have 25 players he didn't buy. A good manager gets the best out of what he has at his disposal - accepting that this will be different to the group of players he would like.

Oh for the small details. Imagine if Randy had stuck with his original board and implemented a "Transfer committee". No one can say for certain where we'd be today, but I'm certain we wouldn't be in the shit state we're in now.

Liverpool, I suspect, is the other extreme and have too many checks and balances. Like Dan, I'd prefer to measure Rodgers by the job he did prior to Liverpool where the pressure was lower, the expectations not as delusional and the fan-base a little more forgiving.

I was going to ask what would it say about our club that a Liverpool reject is welcomed so quickly but then...... McLeish, Lambert hanging around to break every record and Sherwood.

Rodgers would almost certainly be an improvement. And, unlike a European manager, would likely hit the ground running. And we can ill afford someone taking a couple of months to find their way...by then we'd be so far adrift that it would take the mother of all turn-arounds to fix.

Which brings us to the one hundred million dollar question: what is the point of no return with Sherwood (assuming that his results don't change all that much)? Surely Xmas will be too late??

Trotters wrote:Oh for the small details. Imagine if Randy had stuck with his original board and implemented a "Transfer committee". No one can say for certain where we'd be today, but I'm certain we wouldn't be in the shit state we're in now.

Liverpool, I suspect, is the other extreme and have too many checks and balances. Like Dan, I'd prefer to measure Rodgers by the job he did prior to Liverpool where the pressure was lower, the expectations not as delusional and the fan-base a little more forgiving.

I was going to ask what would it say about our club that a Liverpool reject is welcomed so quickly but then...... McLeish, Lambert hanging around to break every record and Sherwood.

Rodgers would almost certainly be an improvement. And, unlike a European manager, would likely hit the ground running. And we can ill afford someone taking a couple of months to find their way...by then we'd be so far adrift that it would take the mother of all turn-arounds to fix.

Which brings us to the one hundred million dollar question: what is the point of no return with Sherwood (assuming that his results don't change all that much)? Surely Xmas will be too late??

Christmas would indeed be too late, if a decision is to be made it has to be done to leave any new manager time to work with the existing players and assess what might be required in January (and when i say January I mean the very first week, no pissing about until deadline day). Any new manager will need to liase with our "transfer committee " and come to agreement on what's required as a matter of urgency. That to me means if Sherwood is to go then it has to be end of October. Give the new man plenty of time leading up to January.

smetro wrote:

Trotters wrote:Like Ember, I'd be stunned if the board has decided recently to give Sherwood two games to get three points and alerted (leaked) the media to this.

It's more likely that, somehow, the terms of his employment have gotten out and those terms state that if we're in the relegation zone for x number of weeks, the manager will be fired.

Let's remember that Foxhad Lambert's contract re-written to reflect that exact scenario so there's no way - NO WAY - that Sherwood doesn't have a trap-door in his contract somewhere.

Having said that, if we suffer unlucky loses to both Chelsea and Swansea showing a massively improved level of flair and commitment from the players and a huge leap in professionalism from the management/coaching team, then I can see a stay of execution. But if his comments in the press are anything to go by, Sherwood knows he's a dead-man walking, has lost the changing-room and has no idea (nor will) to pull us out of it.

I would doubt there is any such clause.

I think most likley Tom Fox hasn't as yet been vocal in his suuport for Sherwood - loose the next 2 - that will be six on the bounce - people are assuming (rightly) that Tom Fox may pull the trigger at that point - I don't think there is anything more to it than that.

I agree with Trotter on this one and if Lamberk had that relegation place cause then I think Sherwood will have it too.

Even if we get 4 points out the next 2 games we are still going to be in the bottom 3 more than likely and 4 points is cloud cuckoo land at the moment. I have never seen a manager loose the fan base this quickly after been fairly popular at the start of the season. things must be really bad.