Aston Villa v Chelsea

I think the way Gil plays means if he is on the pitch then it doesn't matter what Lambert tells him to do, he is creative and just goes with what he sees open, switches sides freely. He's too good for us, the way he ghosted past a couple of players in the Chelsea squad (Matic, Oscar etc) was something we just don't see nowadays

Agreed Dan.

Villa_Dan wrote:I think the way Gil plays means if he is on the pitch then it doesn't matter what Lambert tells him to do, he is creative and just goes with what he sees open, switches sides freely. He's too good for us, the way he ghosted past a couple of players in the Chelsea squad (Matic, Oscar etc) was something we just don't see nowadays

That's exactly what I said to one of my lads during the game today, "he's too good for us!" The most we can hope for is that he fetches top dollar.

Let's say probably on the optimistic side that we somehow survive and then Lambert gets the sack.
We now have a squad that a good manager would be excited to work with along with a small fund to improve it where he sees fit. Everyone can see the players are good enough but are being held back by the tactics. Disappointed we haven't got Sherwood but hopefully somebody will be available in the summer.

mefromhere wrote:Let's say probably on the optimistic side that we somehow survive and then Lambert gets the sack.
We now have a squad that a good manager would be excited to work with along with a small fund to improve it where he sees fit. Everyone can see the players are good enough but are being held back by the tactics. Disappointed we haven't got Sherwood but hopefully somebody will be available in the summer.

Mourinho was very complimentary about our players. The trouble is he plays mind games so often that I don't know whether he meant it, or whether it was a subtle dig at the way they are managed. Either way he highlighted that we have the players, we have the stadium and we have the fans .... he thinks that we should be doing better, and he's right.

villabromsgrove wrote:

mefromhere wrote:Let's say probably on the optimistic side that we somehow survive and then Lambert gets the sack.
We now have a squad that a good manager would be excited to work with along with a small fund to improve it where he sees fit. Everyone can see the players are good enough but are being held back by the tactics. Disappointed we haven't got Sherwood but hopefully somebody will be available in the summer.

Mourinho was very complimentary about our players. The trouble is he plays mind games so often that I don't know whether he meant it, or whether it was a subtle dig at the way they are managed. Either way he highlighted that we have the players, we have the stadium and we have the fans .... he thinks that we should be doing better, and he's right.

Totally trolling Lambert, but he's right, its no 'false narrative' is it? I have a feeling that silly line will come back to haunt Fox...

He's completely right. He basically said that everything was brilliant about our club including fans, stadium and players and the only problem is our tactics. Welcome to our world Jose!

GadgetMan wrote:

villabromsgrove wrote:

mefromhere wrote:Let's say probably on the optimistic side that we somehow survive and then Lambert gets the sack.
We now have a squad that a good manager would be excited to work with along with a small fund to improve it where he sees fit. Everyone can see the players are good enough but are being held back by the tactics. Disappointed we haven't got Sherwood but hopefully somebody will be available in the summer.

Mourinho was very complimentary about our players. The trouble is he plays mind games so often that I don't know whether he meant it, or whether it was a subtle dig at the way they are managed. Either way he highlighted that we have the players, we have the stadium and we have the fans .... he thinks that we should be doing better, and he's right.

Totally trolling Lambert, but he's right, its no 'false narrative' is it? I have a feeling that silly line will come back to haunt Fox...

I think the "false narrative " quote demonstrates that Tom Fox is thinking about Villa in terms of the story he's trying to write rather than addressing the cold hard facts of our current dilemma. The problem with having a cerebral approach to actual real problems is that while he's theorising and preparing his own narrative the things that could be rectified right now are being ignored, in favour of looking past them to the future.

Tom Fox is not a football man and he's probably only just beginning to understand that this bloody nuisance of a thing we call football, could actually derail all his carefully made plans.

Kind of sums Villa up when, in our household, we just looked at each other in complete shock when Okore scored.

And I think that goal just extended Lambert's lifeline. The bastard. I can just imagine all the shit he says to Lerner and Fox to get himself out of the blame for poor performances. Things like "Well of course Arsenal beat us 5-0. They beat Villa's best team ever 2-0 when the title was on the line so in perspective...." and "Abramovich will give his manager anything he needs to win and we matched them for long periods so...."

And they'll be buying it. I very much doubt that they're even looking at any kind of broader picture despite what they say in public. They'll be figuring that we'll fluke survival yet again and then rebuild to a limited degree in the off-season.

But the root problem remains.

I do honestly believe that had Mourinho been in charge of this Villa squad for a week and Lambert in charge of Chelsea for the same time, Villa would have won this game.

It's all so depressing and, should Hull turn us over, I do think this will be our year to go down.

On a slightly more positive side, the commentator really hammered home that everything is in place at Villa - the stadium, the fans, etc - but that the club is on it's knees. Hopefully if everyone from TV commentators and pundits through to radio and the printed media start to say the same then surely Lerner/Fox have to take notice?

It'll be a case of a day late and a dollar short though, I suspect.

villabromsgrove wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:I think the way Gil plays means if he is on the pitch then it doesn't matter what Lambert tells him to do, he is creative and just goes with what he sees open, switches sides freely. He's too good for us, the way he ghosted past a couple of players in the Chelsea squad (Matic, Oscar etc) was something we just don't see nowadays

That's exactly what I said to one of my lads during the game today, "he's too good for us!" The most we can hope for is that he fetches top dollar.

Yeah, me and my Dad were talking about how we're already worried he'll be gone in the summer. Which on paper is stupid, but, y'know... 

Thats right Mr Lambert , we got the ball wide , got to the byline , got a cross in & hey presto a GOAL !

FFS, at least try 442 please !

I am sick to the teeth of watching us lose , as the balloons said " Lambert Out"

Trotters wrote:Kind of sums Villa up when, in our household, we just looked at each other in complete shock when Okore scored.

And I think that goal just extended Lambert's lifeline. The bastard. I can just imagine all the shit he says to Lerner and Fox to get himself out of the blame for poor performances. Things like "Well of course Arsenal beat us 5-0. They beat Villa's best team ever 2-0 when the title was on the line so in perspective...." and "Abramovich will give his manager anything he needs to win and we matched them for long periods so...."

And they'll be buying it. I very much doubt that they're even looking at any kind of broader picture despite what they say in public. They'll be figuring that we'll fluke survival yet again and then rebuild to a limited degree in the off-season.

But the root problem remains.

I do honestly believe that had Mourinho been in charge of this Villa squad for a week and Lambert in charge of Chelsea for the same time, Villa would have won this game.

It's all so depressing and, should Hull turn us over, I do think this will be our year to go down.

On a slightly more positive side, the commentator really hammered home that everything is in place at Villa - the stadium, the fans, etc - but that the club is on it's knees. Hopefully if everyone from TV commentators and pundits through to radio and the printed media start to say the same then surely Lerner/Fox have to take notice?

It'll be a case of a day late and a dollar short though, I suspect.

Exactly what I feel as well even Mourinho sees what we need and its not players!

kimbo wrote:

villabromsgrove wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:I think the way Gil plays means if he is on the pitch then it doesn't matter what Lambert tells him to do, he is creative and just goes with what he sees open, switches sides freely. He's too good for us, the way he ghosted past a couple of players in the Chelsea squad (Matic, Oscar etc) was something we just don't see nowadays

That's exactly what I said to one of my lads during the game today, "he's too good for us!" The most we can hope for is that he fetches top dollar.

Yeah, me and my Dad were talking about how we're already worried he'll be gone in the summer. Which on paper is stupid, but, y'know... 

Not stupid at all. He didn't come to England to play in the Championship. He'll be gone with a whole bunch of them. Rats deserting a sinking ship with Captain Lambert tethered to the mast saying "I think this ship is absolutely brilliant, I really do".

Gil looks superb when he gets the ball, it's so refreshing to see someone consistently looking for the ball and getting himself into the space to receive it and then running at the opposition and usually beating them or making a good pass. He and Hutton are starting to look good together on the right.

I am unashamedly a fan of Grealish. I agree he's not quite there yet and is hopeless at tackling but he's like Gil, he wants people to pass to him and comes back to the defence to collect it from them and then goes on the attack. Where's he gone though? Is he training with Lowton and Bacuna for incurring the displeasure of Lambert? Now Sinclair is here is that it for Grealish, back in the reserves with him or off on loan somewhere?

I'm also a fan of Gabby but he's not working under this manager. Something to note about Okore's goal is that it's still over 11 hours since a Villa attacking player has scored a goal in the PL. Yes, there was some promising play around the Chelsea goal yesterday but our strikers still aren't striking. We may as well be playing a 4-6-0.

On reflection, I think my anger coloured my impression of the game and perhaps was a little unfair on the players.

The arguement of whether I/we expected to get anything from Chelsea is completely irrelevant, because in football as has been proven over and over you can't go into any game expecting anything. I think realistically the odds were against us, but I'd never watch a game expecting Villa to lose, that's not how supporting a club works for me.

I think Okore has probably handed Lambert a lifeline. I don't know how I feel about this. I cannot stand Lambert any more, I wouldn't've started the season with him (definitely not sign him on for another few years) but at this point in the season there are a number of facets to changeover that need to be weighed up carefully and I'm honestly not sure what the answer is as whilst we want his head on a pike there's work to be done to turn it round in his absence. I think it's quite a nasty place to be, as a Villa fan.

Anyway, as for the game, I thought Gil and Clark were our standout players. Really like how Clark is cementing himself in the back four and seems to have a good working relationship with Okore - I thought Okore was good too but he seems a bit of a loose cannon. Delph was brilliant as well, bar the odd couple of giveaways which I can forgive for the sake of the drive he has got. Weimann was ok.

As for the rest, Gabby doesn't deserve the captains armband and certainly didn't earn his starting place again. Sadly, Benteke did absolutely fuck all when he came on. At this point, Weimann looks the most hungry and the most likely to score each week, but apparently he has feet shaped like Toblerones (not sure who I'm quoting and am doing so out of amusement rather than a dig!) whilst Benteke is worth £30m. Go figure.

We looked statuesque for their first goal, like we hadn't really started. There were some good signs of attack, but as with recent weeks we're suffering on the delivery front and not converting chances into anything.

VTID85 wrote:Anyway, as for the game, I thought Gil and Clark were our standout players. Really like how Clark is cementing himself in the back four and seems to have a good working relationship with Okore - I thought Okore was good too but he seems a bit of a loose cannon. Delph was brilliant as well, bar the odd couple of giveaways which I can forgive for the sake of the drive he has got. Weimann was ok.

I think Okore works well playing with Vlaar on one side and Clark on the other, it allows Okore to drift out of position and push further forward into a defensive midfield position.

Clark has been playing really well, I see no reason for Senderos when fit to replace either Clark or Okore in the starting lineup. I'm not sure about Vlaar, does he replace Okore or should he only be used when we need three at the back? But then he does make a good captain when he does play.

I wonder if dropping Sanchez yesterday was simply because he's not been playing well and Westwood has or, like swapping Benteke for Gabby and playing a 4-5-1 formation, Lambert is finally trying out some different formations and trying to be slightly less predictable? Its difficult to tell, I hope a mixture of both.

I don't like Lambert and I don't like seeing Cleverley on the pitch (or Cole TBH) when we now have more and better choices but we are seemingly stuck with what we have for the rest of the season. Let's hope a new assistant is appointed or at least coaches able to get the players working properly (and together). There were promising signs in the the Chelsea match.

FoxyAV wrote:

VTID85 wrote:Anyway, as for the game, I thought Gil and Clark were our standout players. Really like how Clark is cementing himself in the back four and seems to have a good working relationship with Okore - I thought Okore was good too but he seems a bit of a loose cannon. Delph was brilliant as well, bar the odd couple of giveaways which I can forgive for the sake of the drive he has got. Weimann was ok.

I think Okore works well playing with Vlaar on one side and Clark on the other, it allows Okore to drift out of position and push further forward into a defensive midfield position.

Clark has been playing really well, I see no reason for Senderos when fit to replace either Clark or Okore in the starting lineup. I'm not sure about Vlaar, does he replace Okore or should he only be used when we need three at the back? But then he does make a good captain when he does play.

I wonder if dropping Sanchez yesterday was simply because he's not been playing well and Westwood has or, like swapping Benteke for Gabby and playing a 4-5-1 formation, Lambert is finally trying out some different formations and trying to be slightly less predictable? Its difficult to tell, I hope a mixture of both.

I don't like Lambert and I don't like seeing Cleverley on the pitch (or Cole TBH) when we now have more and better choices but we are seemingly stuck with what we have for the rest of the season. Let's hope a new assistant is appointed or at least coaches able to get the players working properly (and together). There were promising signs in the the Chelsea match.

But as I said earlier; there were positive signs when we were the better side against Spurs until the red card, there were positive signs in the draw against Man U when really we should have won, there were positive signs when we had a good second half spell for about 20 mins against Liverpool until they scored their second (which is basically all yesterday was) and there positive signs in an okay second half against Bournemouth reserves - and let's not sugarcoat it, that's essentially what they were.

I'm not denying there were positive signs yesterday, just saying they've happened before, but it turns out we're mostly just the worst team in the division. Not on paper of course, but hey, Lambo is working his magic.

To be honest, the only thing I hoped for in this game was:

1) To not get massacred 2 games in a row
2) Find the net and end this goal drought.

We accomplished both of those and actually looked threatening at points with Gil leading the attack. We could have grabbed a point there and I thought Ivanovic's goal was incredibly unlucky.

Agree KMitch great to see a villa goal and Delph was a hairs breath away from clearing the ball. We need just that bit of luck.
Of course the ref didn't help.  Also in the 90th mark merino started to shout at the chelski players and 3 went down with cramp?
   

VillaBill wrote:Thats right Mr Lambert , we got the ball wide , got to the byline , got a cross in & hey presto a GOAL !

FFS, at least try 442 please !

I am sick to the teeth of watching us lose , as the balloons said " Lambert Out"

Jesus, did you actually watch the game?
"we got the ball wide , got to the byline" Not 'strictly' true is it?...We had a corner, Chelsea cleared it, it fell back in the corner to the kicker...yes he displayed tremendous skill and put in a great cross.....but we never 'got the ball wide' to him at all....be honest now, did we?

if we played 4-4-2 we would get totally destroyed, our midfield not good enough....not even Chelsea play with 2 in midfield....and they have some of the best midfielders in the world!

Wish people would stop going on about 4-4-2.....if we want to go with 2 up, we have to go with 3 at the back.

Personally thought there was nothing wrong with our shape on Saturday. Gil looked menacing from central areas, I would like to see him replace Cleverley in that midfield tomorrow night, play him ahead of Delph & Westwood and I would start Sinclair and Weimann either side of Gabby.

Mardybum72 wrote:

VillaBill wrote:Thats right Mr Lambert , we got the ball wide , got to the byline , got a cross in & hey presto a GOAL !

FFS, at least try 442 please !

I am sick to the teeth of watching us lose , as the balloons said " Lambert Out"

Jesus, did you actually watch the game?
"we got the ball wide , got to the byline" Not 'strictly' true is it?...We had a corner, Chelsea cleared it, it fell back in the corner to the kicker...yes he displayed tremendous skill and put in a great cross.....but we never 'got the ball wide' to him at all....be honest now, did we?

if we played 4-4-2 we would get totally destroyed, our midfield not good enough....not even Chelsea play with 2 in midfield....and they have some of the best midfielders in the world!

Wish people would stop going on about 4-4-2.....if we want to go with 2 up, we have to go with 3 at the back.

Personally thought there was nothing wrong with our shape on Saturday. Gil looked menacing from central areas, I would like to see him replace Cleverley in that midfield tomorrow night, play him ahead of Delph & Westwood and I would start Sinclair and Weimann either side of Gabby.

As a season ticket holder , of course I watched the game , my point being , its easier for a defender against Benteke for instance if CB has always got his back to him, if Benteke was attacking a cross at full pelt , what central defender would stop him every time ? Why would you not utilise our best chance of scoring ?

You are happy with our shape ?  You are happy our tactics never work ? You are happy Lambert always plays Wiemann or Gabby or both out of position ? 433 or 451 ,working ,  really ? How do you know we would get swamped playing 442 ?
Why would you not at least try something different ? Do you watch any games , because i know the current tactics / shape isnt working , and i know the players are better than they are showing at the moment !

And i still agree with the balloons ! And the name isn't Jesus !

You said "we got the ball out wide"...I was just saying, no we didn't!

I never mentioned tactics...I said the shape looked ok on Saturday...we had enough of the ball in key areas but couldn't deliver. If the shape was totally wrong, we would have been annihilated by Chelsea...but we weren't.

Benteke playing with his back to goal the whole time is down to him...you could playing 3 strikers, it wouldn't matter. He is easy to mark, because he never moves. He needs to work on that.
It's no surprise that his form has dipped since we started trying to pass the ball...that style of play requires movement, and a forward who is willing to put a shift in.
Gabby is useless, but he is willing to run...hence why we looked a little bit better on Saturday.
Noticeable how we looked poorer again when Benteke came on.

I would also like to point out that Benteke has played in every game since 18 October. He is as much to blame for our lack of goals as anyone.
As for 'attacking crosses at full pelt', he would have to get his arse in the box first....and when exactly was the last time he won a header in the box? He has had many, many chances to score goals since xmas...he gets service, but he also needs to make things happen for himself.
There is one of two things wrong with Benteke in my opinion, either he really don't wanna be here anymore and is playing for a move....or he isn't fit.
I said at the time he may never come back the same player after that Achilles injury, without doubt one of the worst injuries any athlete can suffer. Perhaps the injury has removed that little bit of zest...that extra inch of spring, half yard of pace? it makes all the difference.
Question is, will he ever regain the form he showed 18 months or so ago? He is capable of netting a dozen goals from now till end of season.....do you think he will though?

Who knows whats going on with Benteke , but my frustration in watching us loose week in,week out proves that the current tactic/shape is not working , at least try something else FFS , i am sure we would score more goals & create more chances than we are doing at the moment , what gets served up now is shit and it definitely isn't working , there is no denying that surely ?

isn't our shape part of his tactics  ? We should play to our strength and try and at least service the player who is still our best chance of a goal , but Lambert wont , i despair every time i hear Gabby & Wiemann are selected out of position, Wiemann should be in & around Benteke picking up his flick ons, knock downs etc, his position at the moment is a waste of a shirt !

My annoyance is that Weimann is a much better finisher than Gabby and is wasted out wide, whereas Gabby's pace could be useful out wide. Just switch the 2 of them

It's weird really, if Benteke was in any sort of form I'd expect him to be off at the end of the season no questions asked, but as he's playing currently, I'm not sure anyone will even come in for him.