Doug or Randy?

As some people are comparing the two eras which did you prefer - doug for all his faults or the current incumbent.

I hated Doug with a vengeance, but Lerner is currently making me question that hate. Two different guys though, one shrewd, the other naive.

I've gone neutral on it, but Doug edges it for his vindictiveness, ego, and the way he treated Tony Barton. Doug a genuine nasty piece of work.

Doug was much worse than Randy.

That said, he had longer to establish that!! If this takeover rumbles on for 12 months I might change my mind

My vote has gone to Doug , I know he was far from perfect but I enjoyed some great years under him as well as some shit times - I've never felt so low for so long as I do under randys tenure.

Both as bad as each other, but in different ways.

Doug as has been said, for his ego and general "i'm Mr Football and know everything attitude" and also penny pinching when some shrewd investment might well have won us something (Robbie Keane a good example).

Randy, started off well, but quickly illustrated his naivity in football and didn't appoint the proper people to run a football club or understand the concept of local rivalry (At least Doug would have never appointed Mcleish).

In some ways Randy is worse as he has taken bigger risks with the clubs future and Premier League survival and the penalities if we got relegated are far greater than under Doug.

Therefore about the same for me

Doug did oversee the destruction of the 1982 team and our relegation...

I have never and never would - give my endorsement to Ellis as he was always in it at the Villa to satisfy his own massive ego and had he carried on, would have bankrupt the club.

I welcomed Lerner with open arms and enjoyed the first couple of years of his tenure at Villa Park as he gave a lot of money to the manager (MON) who unfortunately, wasted an awful lot of it on excessive transfer fees and then inflated wages that never matched their ability..... with the odd exceptions of course like Milner, Petrov (took a while though to acclimatise to the speed etc of the Premier League) and Ashley Young.

That's why I am now bitterly disappointed with Randy in that he has lost interest in the club and has allowed Aston Villa to stand still and be overtaken by teams we used to leave in our wake.

Based on the above, it is very much "Both as bad as each-other" for me.

Villa_Dan wrote:Doug did oversee the destruction of the 1982 team and our relegation...

I believe also when doug returned he took over a team that had just finished 11th in the league , albeit having won the European cup .
His record on appointments was very hit and miss - some real dross like McNeill, turner, venglos, and so,e gems like big ron , brian little and graham taylor.

Randys appointments have been dire

Doug was the Chairman of AVFC not the owner, so comparisons have to take this into account. Doug was egotistical, self promoting and vain, but he was passionate about Aston Villa, and a shrewd penny pinching businessman. He was a ruthless and efficient boss, but never spent any of his own money on Villa. (In fact he made a nice living out of AVFC)

Randy owns AVFC and is a modest, decent individual who has sadly found himself out of his depth at Aston Villa and has acted rather like a rabbit caught in headlights in the past few seasons. Nice man but useless boss and incompetent club owner. He did however spend (waste?) multi millions of his own money on Villa.

Conclusion …. If Doug had half of Randy's money he would have made much better use of it, but been twice as arrogant as he was if that's at all possible.

villabromsgrove wrote:Doug was the Chairman of AVFC not the owner, so comparisons have to take this into account. Doug was egotistical, self promoting and vain, but he was passionate about Aston Villa, and a shrewd penny pinching businessman. He was a ruthless and efficient boss, but never spent any of his own money on Villa. (In fact he made a nice living out of AVFC)

Randy owns AVFC and is a modest, decent individual who has sadly found himself out of his depth at Aston Villa and has acted rather like a rabbit caught in headlights in the past few seasons. Nice man but useless boss and incompetent club owner. He did however spend (waste?) multi millions of his own money on Villa.

Conclusion …. If Doug had half of Randy's money he would have made much better use of it, but been twice as arrogant as he was if that's at all possible.

Fair comments.

Doug took us from Champions of Europe to the 2nd Division in under 8 years. Randy has took us from about 15th to about 15th!!! So Randy all day! Absence can make the heart grow fonder so ask me again in 200 years.

DN1982 wrote:Doug took us from Champions of Europe to the 2nd Division in under 8 years. Randy has took us from about 15th to about 15th!!! So Randy all day! Absence can make the heart grow fonder so ask me again in 200 years.

Yes we were champions of Europe but we had just finished 11th in the league - sometimes it can appear misleading and people think we must have been a top 2 or 3 club at the time but the slide was beginning to set in - not to in anyway take away from the achievement of winning the European cup of course.

Tony Barton was treated very badly but the appointment of a Shrewsbury boss was a huge mistake and to result in a dramatic slide.

It could be argued randy took us from a regular top 6 side to a regular bottom 6 side in 3 years also - a similar drop of 10 places.

Doug had an ego that was out of control. His penny pinching was just ridiculous and it cost us big time. Had he pushed the boat out a few inches more, who knows what may have been.

Then there's the nasty streak to add in.

Randy's only real fault is/was his naivety. Had he not bowed down to MoN and got rid of the people that new how to run a sporting franchise then the austerity measures of the last few years may not have been necessary.

But he kept making the same mistakes over and over and over. When Abramovich bought Chelsea, he learned everything he could about the game so he didn't get fucked over. Randy left a call centre manager in charge of things.

Add to that his divorce, rumoured depression and you can understand why he's had a gut-full.

If we can somehow stay in the top flight until we get a new owner then I think I'll look back on the Lerner years and feel a bit sorry for him because he's the one that will be paying massively for his mistakes. He gave us a huge boost when he came in but, ultimately, the "bright future" thing was all built on sand.

If we do sink this season though, I'll not look on him with much respect because we won't be coming back in a hurry. It'll truly fuck this mighty club.

So...Randy for me all day long. I can frown upon a man who is nasty but I can't hold too much venom for a bloke that gave it a go but didn't have the know-how to carry it off.

Eastie wrote:

DN1982 wrote:Doug took us from Champions of Europe to the 2nd Division in under 8 years. Randy has took us from about 15th to about 15th!!! So Randy all day! Absence can make the heart grow fonder so ask me again in 200 years.

Yes we were champions of Europe but we had just finished 11th in the league - sometimes it can appear misleading and people think we must have been a top 2 or 3 club at the time but the slide was beginning to set in - not to in anyway take away from the achievement of winning the European cup of course.

Tony Barton was treated very badly but the appointment of a Shrewsbury boss was a huge mistake and to result in a dramatic slide.

It could be argued randy took us from a regular top 6 side to a regular bottom 6 side in 3 years also - a similar drop of 10 places.

Not misleading really as that season our focus was on the European Cup. It was the same side that won the league and was dismantled under his Chairmanship as his ego couldn't handle it. I'm sure the players from that era would back that assessment up. How can you say slide when that was the pinnacle for that team and even though very different times we should have had a platform to build on not collapse. That was the story of Ellis reign for me and time and again he failed to build on solid foundations only for them to collapse. I still,think Ellis is worse but I'm sure if you took both records and found the average pts/positions they'd be extremely close as that's been our habit for years we get close then fade away.

Yeah, that's pretty much nailed it for me, DN1982. Small squad, lots on it's plate as Eastie says but the chairman was certainly being malicious/stupid/penny pinching by not enhancing the squad when we were in a position of strength to do so. And, yes, it was the hallmark of his chairmanship.

His ego certainly had a lot to do with it all.

Fair comments, it's often been a case of if only ....

If we had got sheringham rather than his partner cascarino, if we had got Robbie Keane and juninho - so many times we were so close but didn't take that final step - I can see the arguments you have made , no doubt - the last 3 yrs have been sustained misery for me and that's why I have plumped for randy - both had good points and both bad .

I think Randy is a decent person deep down with modern business ideas that just didn't work in the football world.

I think dear old Doug has a very vile side with a cornershop mentality that would definitely NOT work in todays football world as it barely worked back then.

Eastie wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:Doug did oversee the destruction of the 1982 team and our relegation...

I believe also when doug returned he took over a team that had just finished 11th in the league , albeit having won the European cup .
His record on appointments was very hit and miss - some real dross like McNeill, turner, venglos, and so,e gems like big ron , brian little and graham taylor.

Randys appointments have been dire

McNeill and Turner yes (although, I bet there's a number of Hereford fans now, who wish Turner had stayed involved there) but Dr Jo in my opinion was just the wrong era, he was unfortunately a few years ahead of his time with regards english football, don't forget Wenger turned up at Arsenal a few years later with the exact same ideas but unfortunately for Venglos, you try telling the likes of God etc etc... to do a warm down after the game when the bars open

With regards the original question, it's a tough one for me, as much as I hated Ellis (which I pretty much told him in a Q&A onboard HMS Illustrious ) and the breathe of fresh air that Lerner was in the early days, i'm afraid it's all gone a bit Pete Tong over the last 4 seasons and his naivety and loss of interest is really showing now!!
I'm still sitting on the fence (which says more about Lerner than Ellis) at the moment!!!

I actually moonied Doug at Fulham :twisted: 

Doug Ellis set this club back a million years. Belive it or not, we had more trophies in the cabinet than Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal when he first became involved with Villa.  On his watch, one by one, they all pegged us back and took over us - his ego was such that that he was blind to our faltering status and lowering of standards.  As long as he was being talked about in the local press or getting his mug on the TV he was happy. A small time man.  Compare and contrast him to the likes of real, progressive football industry men like David Dein.

Pray that real winners take us over and get us back where we should be.

Doug had many ups and downs during his spells at the Villa, and like every chairman he appointed some poor managers but he also backed his managers the best he could financially in the transfer market.

Roncrete wrote:Doug had many ups and downs during his spells at the Villa, and like every chairman he appointed some poor managers but he also backed his managers the best he could financially in the transfer market.

Even to the point of over riding his manager's on occasion!

whiteensign wrote:

Eastie wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:Doug did oversee the destruction of the 1982 team and our relegation...

I believe also when doug returned he took over a team that had just finished 11th in the league , albeit having won the European cup .
His record on appointments was very hit and miss - some real dross like McNeill, turner, venglos, and so,e gems like big ron , brian little and graham taylor.

Randys appointments have been dire

McNeill and Turner yes (although, I bet there's a number of Hereford fans now, who wish Turner had stayed involved there) but Dr Jo in my opinion was just the wrong era, he was unfortunately a few years ahead of his time with regards english football, don't forget Wenger turned up at Arsenal a few years later with the exact same ideas but unfortunately for Venglos, you try telling the likes of God etc etc... to do a warm down after the game when the bars open

With regards the original question, it's a tough one for me, as much as I hated Ellis (which I pretty much told him in a Q&A onboard HMS Illustrious ) and the breathe of fresh air that Lerner was in the early days, i'm afraid it's all gone a bit Pete Tong over the last 4 seasons and his naivety and loss of interest is really showing now!!
I'm still sitting on the fence (which says more about Lerner than Ellis) at the moment!!!

So this with regards to Venglos - so many used to scratch their heads at the things he suggested or tried to implement, yet 5 - 10 years later they were being viewed as revolutionary and cutting edge.

I think in the cold light of day if we are sold within 12 months and have caring, investing, footballing owners - then we would view it in abstract and say Doug was way worse with his egotistical self centred ways. However currently it's difficult to go past the sheer sense of negativity and confusion surrounding anything to do with Villa, and that is basically down to Lerner. So I got to vote both as bad as each other.

Interesting  split looking at the voting with Doug ahead at the moment .
Some quality debate though -I must say looking at several threads this morning we have got some really good posters on this forum and its a pleasure to be a mod on here - great reading and a really decent bunch of people - roll on the new season !

I am not old enough to experience any of the good times under Doug really, so the early success we had under Randy probably edges it for me. Plus Doug drove the fans to protest on a regular basis, something that I cannot remember happening with Lerner.

I also feel the league is a lot harder to be competitive these days under Lerner's reign. The amount of money being thrown around at the moment is amazing.