Re: Brigada 1874 and Standing - The Rant!

by Lazarus Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:25 pm

Villa_Dan wrote:Your ability to read and follow a train of thought is staggering so I'll break it down for you

Lazarus wrote:1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".
I am accepting that I received it 3rd hand and passed on, I haven't said it IS an exaggeration just that it might be. Learn the difference.

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.
Jeff has been told it from the person who claimed to be punched. That seems like a pretty fucking strong source.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.
Which demonstrates EXACTLY my point - it happened, the only dispute is that circumstances surrounding it. That is literally what I wrote.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I cna't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.
Only a few posts ago I told you I have no interested whatsoever in their political stances or actions. I was simply repeating what someone else posted on it

Now, does all that make sense?

Hence the use of the word "may" in the opening sentence, though you may have missed that. It's good that you've gone from accusing the group of being "women beaters" to admitting that your source for this may be exaggerated.

by Villa_Dan Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:36 pm

Lazarus wrote:Hence the use of the word "may" in the opening sentence

Which was a completely irrelevant inclusion as you opened the sentence claiming it was a lie.

All I did was accept the possibility that the exact event might not have occurred as relayed to me (that a woman got into a row with a Brigada member and was struck), I still believe it happened as you've offered nothing beyond "that's a lie" to convince me otherwise

by Lazarus Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:50 pm

Villa_Dan wrote:
Lazarus wrote:Hence the use of the word "may" in the opening sentence
Which was a completely irrelevant inclusion as you opened the sentence claiming it was a lie.

All I did was accept the possibility that the exact event might not have occurred as relayed to me (that a woman got into a row with a Brigada member and was struck), I still believe it happened as you've offered nothing beyond "that's a lie" to convince me otherwise

I get the impression that i'd need CCTV footage and a dozen wtiness statements to convince you that it didn't happen as from your statements it's quite clear that you're partial to believing any slur you hear in relation to the group, no matter how absurd.

by Villa_Dan Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Villa_Dan wrote:
Lazarus wrote:Hence the use of the word "may" in the opening sentence
Which was a completely irrelevant inclusion as you opened the sentence claiming it was a lie.

All I did was accept the possibility that the exact event might not have occurred as relayed to me (that a woman got into a row with a Brigada member and was struck), I still believe it happened as you've offered nothing beyond "that's a lie" to convince me otherwise

I get the impression that i'd need CCTV footage and a dozen wtiness statements to convince you that it didn't happen as from your statements it's quite clear that you're partial to believing any slur you hear in relation to the group, no matter how absurd.

Nope, nothing like that. Just anything tangible at all. I've had a conversation in person with someone who originally passed me the info, you've appeared on this forum with the sole intention to defend Brigada. See why I struggle to instantly accept your word?

by DaveAV1 Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:48 pm

I'll put my 14 pence worth in for what it's worth.

I struggle with the basic concept of organised passion. Truely passionate support is spontaneous in my opinion. I accept that the ultra movement is successful in some European countries, but I don't think that it works for us. And to be honest I think the idea of singing sections is naff and a tad embarrassing.

Regarding safe standing, I now believe there is broad support for it amongst most fans. Liverpool have their obvious objections but let's not get into that. Also increasingly clubs are coming round to the argument and I believe Villa are pretty much at the forefront of trying to introduce it at least as a trial. So I would imagine that the club must be scratching their heads at the stance of Brigada 1874, because they are basically saying, "Yes we agree with you".

I am therefore baffled as to what Brigada think they will achieve. The club can't just ignore the current laws of the land, even if they're opposed in principle to some of them. In fact standing as a form of protest is more likely to be counter productive. The argument from the powers that be could easily be that if we can't control our fans now, why would we think we can control safe standing?

by jeffvilla Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:52 pm

Nice one Dave Av 1

by exiled brummie Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:47 pm

Lazarus wrote:
jeffvilla wrote:Unfortunately DomAVFC I sit close to these so called supporters my lad and myself have been going to villa for the last 12 years, this is the first time I have had problems. They appeared at the start of the season and have been trouble since. To be honest I am sick of it. FFS why can they not behave like reasonable people.

The group would've stayed in L8 where they'd been for the previous 2 seasons had more seats been available there for others to join, however the club blocked 20-30 seats from sale each game due to people migrating over from other parts of the Holte. The group moved forward to L7 as it was also part of the "singing section" that the club established last season, I very much doubt they would've bothered had they known that the club had decided to abandon the idea. I'm not sure that standing up at the game should lead you to question their support though, surely it's an example of their support not something that disproves it?!

Why do they need to be a separate group from the rest of the Holte ?

by exiled brummie Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:52 pm

Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Admitting to being "long time friends" with an Anarchist group is not a wild accusation it's a fact.

by exiled brummie Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:56 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Villa_Dan wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I can't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.

Sabcat don't just make T-Shirts for Brigada , they are "long time friends" , so if Brigada have only been in existence for 4 years when did this "long time friendship" start ?

by exiled brummie Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:58 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Villa_Dan wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I can't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.

Sabcat do not make T-Shirts for "a range of of companies, charities and organisations" they make goods for left wing political organisations.

by exiled brummie Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:10 pm

I'm thinking of forming a group of Villa fans under the name of "Villa Patriots" , we'll go behind the goal in the Holte end with Union Flags and banners proclaiming "VILLA FANS SAY NO TO THE E.U." , see how things could get out of hand when you start proclaiming your political affiliations ?

Brigada say "oh we're not political , we're just anti-fascist" , so just what is a "Fascist in their eyes ? Conservatives ? UKIP ? Would they like UKIP campaigning on issues using the Villa name , colours and inside the Holte end ?

Mmmmm , Villa Patriots ... in the light of the Paris outrages maybe it would catch on ?

by Terry Derry Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:52 pm

Brigada 1874 and Standing - The Rant! - Page 3 Image12

I believe that Heroes and Villans Brigada 1874 and Standing - The Rant! - Page 3 1815562058

like Brigada.

by avfc85 Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:09 pm

As I've started the thread I feel I need to add to this debate, Dan's comments were spot on he endorses great support and atmosphere but also can see the problems Brigada have caused, unfortunately we have many fans with claret and blue glasses on here. I accept the atmosphere is dire at VP and has been for many years, but I will not promote a group that upsets the experience of other villa fans.

I have been a season ticket holder in K4, L4, B5 and L9 - the fans around me in the lower north were great, no problems - vocal, good banter and were very interactive, L4 - again really good, fans around me singing, good banter, but never any issues, B5, great view, atmosphere was dead, but never any issues. I then move to L9 with my wife - worst mistake - a group in front of us each week, constantly standing - blocking views, being aggressive - accusing other fans of being away supporters when they had been before, starting fights with own fans it was terrible, then behind us in L8 and L7, stewards constantly asking people to sit down, fans being aggressive with constant verbals towards the stewards and then police getting involved, this was nearly every game. What I will say was to move Brigada from L8 to L7 was the worst possible mistake the club should of realised that.

Joppe84, you have to realise everyone wants a good atmosphere and support, but as fans we all have to respect others, just because you pay for a season ticket, or a ticket does not mean when you enter VP, you can do as you please. You have an opinion about how to create an atmosphere unfortunately the club dictates what we are allowed to do and we must respect that otherwise don't go.

by avfc85 Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:13 pm

[quote="DomAVFC"]

Trotters wrote:

Nah lads, you've all got it wrong, this is my missus:

FIT AS F*CK Brigada 1874 and Standing - The Rant! - Page 3 50815218

by Lazarus Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:20 am

exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Villa_Dan wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I can't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.

Sabcat do not make T-Shirts for "a range of of companies, charities and organisations" they make goods for left wing political organisations.

They make them for companies as well mate, I don't think they'd be able to make a living simply selling t-shirts to lefty groups! Also, in terms of what constitutes fascist groups, it's pretty clear that the tories and ukip aren't fascist, the use of the term in this sense is with regards to groups like the EDL who were recruiting from football grounds at the times of Brigada's inception but who have since pretty much gone to the wall after Stephen Yaxley-Lennon let go of the reigns.

The only things mildly political that the group have done in 4 years are the "Je Suis Charlie" banner, the "refugees welcome" one both of which really boil down to basic empathy rather than a political statement. The only other one would be the "AVFC - Pay the Living wage" banner. There have been dozens of displays in support of the team aside from these, what are your opinions on these?

In terms of the allegation of beating up women Danny, I think that if this happened the person who got beaten up should definitely go to the police, however like i say i'm highly dubious about the allegations, especially if they came from the same group of people who told you that the group go around beating up people because they're Rangers fans.

by exiled brummie Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:13 pm

Lazarus wrote:
exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Villa_Dan wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I can't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.

Sabcat do not make T-Shirts for "a range of of companies, charities and organisations" they make goods for left wing political organisations.

They make them for companies as well mate, I don't think they'd be able to make a living simply selling t-shirts to lefty groups! Also, in terms of what constitutes fascist groups, it's pretty clear that the tories and ukip aren't fascist, the use of the term in this sense is with regards to groups like the EDL who were recruiting from football grounds at the times of Brigada's inception but who have since pretty much gone to the wall after Stephen Yaxley-Lennon let go of the reigns.

The only things mildly political that the group have done in 4 years are the "Je Suis Charlie" banner, the "refugees welcome" one both of which really boil down to basic empathy rather than a political statement. The only other one would be the "AVFC - Pay the Living wage" banner. There have been dozens of displays in support of the team aside from these, what are your opinions on these?

In terms of the allegation of beating up women Danny, I think that if this happened the person who got beaten up should definitely go to the police, however like i say i'm highly dubious about the allegations, especially if they came from the same group of people who told you that the group go around beating up people because they're Rangers fans.

From Sabcat's own web site ....."Sabcat Printing is a workers co-op founded in January 2010.It’s obvious to anyone who knows anything about political imagery that Sabcat is run by anarchists. As well as the t-shirts we sell on our own site we supply quality printed shirts and other items to organisations such as clubs, bands and community groups" . (don't see any companies there mate)

by exiled brummie Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:23 pm

exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Villa_Dan wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I can't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.

Sabcat do not make T-Shirts for "a range of of companies, charities and organisations" they make goods for left wing political organisations.

They make them for companies as well mate, I don't think they'd be able to make a living simply selling t-shirts to lefty groups! Also, in terms of what constitutes fascist groups, it's pretty clear that the tories and ukip aren't fascist, the use of the term in this sense is with regards to groups like the EDL who were recruiting from football grounds at the times of Brigada's inception but who have since pretty much gone to the wall after Stephen Yaxley-Lennon let go of the reigns.

The only things mildly political that the group have done in 4 years are the "Je Suis Charlie" banner, the "refugees welcome" one both of which really boil down to basic empathy rather than a political statement. The only other one would be the "AVFC - Pay the Living wage" banner. There have been dozens of displays in support of the team aside from these, what are your opinions on these?

In terms of the allegation of beating up women Danny, I think that if this happened the person who got beaten up should definitely go to the police, however like i say i'm highly dubious about the allegations, especially if they came from the same group of people who told you that the group go around beating up people because they're Rangers fans.

(1)From Sabcat's own web site ....."Sabcat Printing is a workers co-op founded in January 2010(What a coincidence so was Brigada)It’s obvious to anyone who knows anything about political imagery that Sabcat is run by anarchists. As well as the t-shirts we sell on our own site we supply quality printed shirts and other items to organisations such as clubs, bands and community groups" . (don't see any companies there mate)
(2)I've never seen the EDL or BNP inside Villa Park so why do we need an anti-fascist presence inside the ground to counter a non existent threat ?
(3) So you're happy for other supporters to display political banners during Villa games then , such as trying to influence support during the E.U. referendum , or the war in Syria ?
(4) Why choose the name "BRIGADA" rather than the English word "BRIGADE"
(5) "Je Suis Charlie" and "refugees welcome" are both subjective political statements which not everyone will agree with(see youtube video of the minutes silence for Paris bombings held at the recent Turkey match) you cannot coerce people into passive agreement by intimidation that's why ALL political statements should be barred from football grounds.

by Lazarus Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:36 pm

exiled brummie wrote:
exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Villa_Dan wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I can't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.

Sabcat do not make T-Shirts for "a range of of companies, charities and organisations" they make goods for left wing political organisations.

They make them for companies as well mate, I don't think they'd be able to make a living simply selling t-shirts to lefty groups! Also, in terms of what constitutes fascist groups, it's pretty clear that the tories and ukip aren't fascist, the use of the term in this sense is with regards to groups like the EDL who were recruiting from football grounds at the times of Brigada's inception but who have since pretty much gone to the wall after Stephen Yaxley-Lennon let go of the reigns.

The only things mildly political that the group have done in 4 years are the "Je Suis Charlie" banner, the "refugees welcome" one both of which really boil down to basic empathy rather than a political statement. The only other one would be the "AVFC - Pay the Living wage" banner. There have been dozens of displays in support of the team aside from these, what are your opinions on these?

In terms of the allegation of beating up women Danny, I think that if this happened the person who got beaten up should definitely go to the police, however like i say i'm highly dubious about the allegations, especially if they came from the same group of people who told you that the group go around beating up people because they're Rangers fans.

(1)From Sabcat's own web site ....."Sabcat Printing is a workers co-op founded in January 2010(What a coincidence so was Brigada)It’s obvious to anyone who knows anything about political imagery that Sabcat is run by anarchists. As well as the t-shirts we sell on our own site we supply quality printed shirts and other items to organisations such as clubs, bands and community groups" . (don't see any companies there mate)
(2)I've never seen the EDL or BNP inside Villa Park so why do we need an anti-fascist presence inside the ground to counter a non existent threat ?
(3) So you're happy for other supporters to display political banners during Villa games then , such as trying to influence support during the E.U. referendum , or the war in Syria ?
(4) Why choose the name "BRIGADA" rather than the English word "BRIGADE"
(5) "Je Suis Charlie" and "refugees welcome" are both subjective political statements which not everyone will agree with(see youtube video of the minutes silence for Paris bombings held at the recent Turkey match) you cannot coerce people into passive agreement by intimidation that's why ALL political statements should be barred from football grounds.

1. Sabcat will do t--shirts for anyone, company, club or peripheral left wing groupling
2. At the time Brigada started there was a definite attempt by the EDL to organise at football grounds, I don't think it was particularly succesful but it was the case.
3. I think if Brigada started doing banners saying "Vote Corbyn" or "kick turkey out of NATO" then i'd agree it'd be bollocks, but the ones that have been done have either been linked to football in the case of the living wage one or have been in relation to human tragedies and not political campaigns as such.
4. You'd have to ask the person who came up with the name on that one. I guess the logic was that "Brigada 1874" sounded better than "The 1874 Brigade"
5. I don't think anyone is trying to coerce anyone into doing anything. Some Turkish fans boo'd the minutes silence for those killed in the bombing in ankara, that just highlights the fact that some sugarbags attend football. There are elements of "politics" that are always going to be in football, from the "kick racism out of football" campaign to the campaign for lower ticket prices or against sky sports control over kick off times, people don't leave their opinions at the turnstile.

by jeffvilla Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:09 pm

I cannot believe the controversy.
Its so simple. Go to the match, enjoy the game as best you can, be respectful to others and go home knowing your team has won drawn or lost, and you were at the event that took place.
Try not to piss off the stewards, block peoples views and do as asked by the employees that encourage a safe area for all.
It seems that the brigada want to upset as many people as possible, and when the hens come home to roost blame everyone else or completely denies the blatant facts. Grow up ffs Scarf Waving

VTID

by Thinman Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:04 pm

jeffvilla wrote:I cannot believe the controversy.
Its so simple. Go to the match, enjoy the game as best you can, be respectful to others and go home knowing your team has won drawn or lost, and you were at the event that took place.
Try not to piss off the stewards, block peoples views and do as asked by the employees that encourage a safe area for all.
It seems that the brigada want to upset as many people as possible, and when the hens come home to roost blame everyone else or completely denies the blatant facts. Grow up ffs VTID

Spot on. I'm lucky where I am (DE Upper), its quite peaceful up there.

Away matches can be more troublesome particular when you find yourself in a group of pissed up fans who invariably turn up late and spend the whole game exchanging 'pleasantries' with opposing fans, never sit down and lurch around uncontrollably if Villa score (not that this is a problem these days).

by DaveAV1 Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:28 pm

Sounds pretty straightforward to me too Jeff!

by exiled brummie Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:16 pm

Lazarus wrote:
exiled brummie wrote:
exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Villa_Dan wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I can't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.

Sabcat do not make T-Shirts for "a range of of companies, charities and organisations" they make goods for left wing political organisations.

They make them for companies as well mate, I don't think they'd be able to make a living simply selling t-shirts to lefty groups! Also, in terms of what constitutes fascist groups, it's pretty clear that the tories and ukip aren't fascist, the use of the term in this sense is with regards to groups like the EDL who were recruiting from football grounds at the times of Brigada's inception but who have since pretty much gone to the wall after Stephen Yaxley-Lennon let go of the reigns.

The only things mildly political that the group have done in 4 years are the "Je Suis Charlie" banner, the "refugees welcome" one both of which really boil down to basic empathy rather than a political statement. The only other one would be the "AVFC - Pay the Living wage" banner. There have been dozens of displays in support of the team aside from these, what are your opinions on these?

In terms of the allegation of beating up women Danny, I think that if this happened the person who got beaten up should definitely go to the police, however like i say i'm highly dubious about the allegations, especially if they came from the same group of people who told you that the group go around beating up people because they're Rangers fans.

(1)From Sabcat's own web site ....."Sabcat Printing is a workers co-op founded in January 2010(What a coincidence so was Brigada)It’s obvious to anyone who knows anything about political imagery that Sabcat is run by anarchists. As well as the t-shirts we sell on our own site we supply quality printed shirts and other items to organisations such as clubs, bands and community groups" . (don't see any companies there mate)
(2)I've never seen the EDL or BNP inside Villa Park so why do we need an anti-fascist presence inside the ground to counter a non existent threat ?
(3) So you're happy for other supporters to display political banners during Villa games then , such as trying to influence support during the E.U. referendum , or the war in Syria ?
(4) Why choose the name "BRIGADA" rather than the English word "BRIGADE"
(5) "Je Suis Charlie" and "refugees welcome" are both subjective political statements which not everyone will agree with(see youtube video of the minutes silence for Paris bombings held at the recent Turkey match) you cannot coerce people into passive agreement by intimidation that's why ALL political statements should be barred from football grounds.

1. Sabcat will do t--shirts for anyone, company, club or peripheral left wing groupling
2. At the time Brigada started there was a definite attempt by the EDL to organise at football grounds, I don't think it was particularly succesful but it was the case.
3. I think if Brigada started doing banners saying "Vote Corbyn" or "kick turkey out of NATO" then i'd agree it'd be bollocks, but the ones that have been done have either been linked to football in the case of the living wage one or have been in relation to human tragedies and not political campaigns as such.
4. You'd have to ask the person who came up with the name on that one. I guess the logic was that "Brigada 1874" sounded better than "The 1874 Brigade"
5. I don't think anyone is trying to coerce anyone into doing anything. Some Turkish fans boo'd the minutes silence for those killed in the bombing in ankara, that just highlights the fact that some sugarbags attend football. There are elements of "politics" that are always going to be in football, from the "kick racism out of football" campaign to the campaign for lower ticket prices or against sky sports control over kick off times, people don't leave their opinions at the turnstile.

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(1) You seem to know a lot about SABCAT even down to who the list of customers on their order book , are you connected to them ?
(2) Right wing political elements have always found football fans to be a rich source of potential members going back to the days of the NF and skin heads although this has declined in recent years and to say that the EDL started to organise is the reason why BRIGADA was formed is not true , as I said I have never seen any right wing activity within the ground .
(3) "Living wage" is a political issue to be decided by the government and the law not football fans and human tragedies (sad as they are) are dealt with by the club by usually having a minutes silence (applause) or the wearing of black armbands as on remembrance day and not by "Ultras" holding up banners.
(4) So who did come up with the name "brigada" and more to the point why ?
(5) I agree people do not leave their opinions at the turnstile but they should leave their banners at the turnstile.
(6) You seem to be very well informed about this group , are you a spokesperson or member of "BRIGADA"

by jeffvilla Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:05 am

I never thought I would post something like this but I would like to say thank you to the Brigada. I was at the Watford game sitting in my allocated seat, and I can say there was not a hint of trouble. This is the first time this season that they have behaved themselves. No stewards massing, no standing blocking others views no police videoing, it was just like last season, went to the match enjoyed the game (as best you can with the result) Happy days.

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