Re: Brigada 1874 and Standing - The Rant!

by exiled brummie Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:31 pm

Joppe 84 , That's exactly what they want you to think , "oh we're only interested in creating an atmosphere and campaigning for the right to stand up in the Holte and just look what those nasty stewards are doing to us" ... Nah mate , they've set out their intentions in their mission statement , to build an anti-fascist pressure group within Villa Park by hi jacking Villa fans natural love of the club to promote their own political agenda , be interesting to hear what their views are on AVFC England supporters ... mmmmm maybe a little bit too Nationalistic for them ..."cos we is non sectarian and we don't like yer flag of St George , it's a bit elitist an' might offend somebody ...innit"

by ErdingtonVilla Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:19 pm

Villa_Dan wrote:I'm a full advocate for safe standing and believe people should be standing and singing if sat in the Holte End or lower North next to the away fans. There's plenty of seats elsewhere if you want to sit and chill.

THAT BEING SAID, I'm not a supporter of Brigada at all. They've purposely blocked the views of kids behind them, assaulted OTHER VILLA FANS in the Holte who've asked them to sit down or move so kids could see, and I've known 1 occasion where one of their rabble punched a woman who objected to their behaviour. They are wannabe football hooligan gobshites. I remember once threatening to launch a self-described member of the Villa Youth through a window if he didn't fuck off and stop being a cnut in a boozer in town. I imagine all the Brigada lot to be of a similar ilk.

Safe standing and an atmosphere? YES!
Cunty Brigada woman-beaters? NO!

I heard they were responsible for the Paris attacks as well, maybe even Hiroshima.
'Not a supporter?' Bit of an understatement....You've just written a message of absolute bullshit. Which you know fully well you have no evidence to back up.
Also, before your pals on here chip in with 'It is true, I saw it?' I mean actual evidence. The lies are getting laughable.

by Villa_Dan Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:24 pm

ErdingtonVilla wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:I'm a full advocate for safe standing and believe people should be standing and singing if sat in the Holte End or lower North next to the away fans. There's plenty of seats elsewhere if you want to sit and chill.

THAT BEING SAID, I'm not a supporter of Brigada at all. They've purposely blocked the views of kids behind them, assaulted OTHER VILLA FANS in the Holte who've asked them to sit down or move so kids could see, and I've known 1 occasion where one of their rabble punched a woman who objected to their behaviour. They are wannabe football hooligan gobshites. I remember once threatening to launch a self-described member of the Villa Youth through a window if he didn't fuck off and stop being a cnut in a boozer in town. I imagine all the Brigada lot to be of a similar ilk.

Safe standing and an atmosphere? YES!
Cunty Brigada woman-beaters? NO!

I heard they were responsible for the Paris attacks as well, maybe even Hiroshima.
'Not a supporter?' Bit of an understatement....You've just written a message of absolute bullshit. Which you know fully well you have no evidence to back up.
Also, before your pals on here chip in with 'It is true, I saw it?' I mean actual evidence. The lies are getting laughable.

Hi there MOMS

What evidence do you want? Statements from people who were there or DNA samples?

Jog on lad, you're only 1 post in and are already fucking boring

by Villa_Dan Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:40 pm

Just to be clear, I've not witnessed these events but been informed of them by other Villa fans. I do KNOW that a Brigada member GLASSED another Villa fan who was unarmed over an argument about Rangers. Fucking jokers.

by ErdingtonVilla Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:01 pm

Villa_Dan wrote:
ErdingtonVilla wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:I'm a full advocate for safe standing and believe people should be standing and singing if sat in the Holte End or lower North next to the away fans. There's plenty of seats elsewhere if you want to sit and chill.

THAT BEING SAID, I'm not a supporter of Brigada at all. They've purposely blocked the views of kids behind them, assaulted OTHER VILLA FANS in the Holte who've asked them to sit down or move so kids could see, and I've known 1 occasion where one of their rabble punched a woman who objected to their behaviour. They are wannabe football hooligan gobshites. I remember once threatening to launch a self-described member of the Villa Youth through a window if he didn't fuck off and stop being a cnut in a boozer in town. I imagine all the Brigada lot to be of a similar ilk.

Safe standing and an atmosphere? YES!
Cunty Brigada woman-beaters? NO!

I heard they were responsible for the Paris attacks as well, maybe even Hiroshima.
'Not a supporter?' Bit of an understatement....You've just written a message of absolute bullshit. Which you know fully well you have no evidence to back up.
Also, before your pals on here chip in with 'It is true, I saw it?' I mean actual evidence. The lies are getting laughable.

Hi there MOMS

What evidence do you want? Statements from people who were there or DNA samples?

Jog on lad, you're only 1 post in and are already fucking boring

Swing and a miss Danny Dyer.
Any evidence at all would be a start. Which again you are showing you clearly have none.
As for the pub incident you are referring to which I saw 1st hand... Im rather confused by your interpretation of events (making it sound like an ambush on defenceless child. In reality, turning up with a mob (after saying you are going to do so) and looking for a fight tends to end in a fight. Not pleasant and didn't achieve anything, but the 'poor victim' angle is once again laughable.

by Lazarus Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:07 pm

Some of the accusations on here vary from the absurd to the defamatory.

Aggressive behaviour towards stewards - no one has been aggressive and no one has been chucked out for being aggressive, they've been chucked out for standing and have always begrudgingly complied with stewards wishes.

Beating up women - this is ridiculous, if you're going to make accusations like this then I suggest some evidence is provided because otherwise it just sounds like you're trying to smear someone.

Recruitruiting agents of the UAF - this is hilarious, have you got any proof that any members are part of the UAF? I know a few of them and they aren't the placard waving types!

As for the incident in the pub, as has been mentioned, if a mob of lads turn up at the pub you drink in with the stated intention to attack you then this is the kind of thing that can happen, it's not big and it's not clever.

by Villa_Dan Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:13 pm

You can no more disprove rumours than I can prove them. It's all opinions, of which you guys seem entirely unwilling to accept some disagree with yours.

by Villa_Dan Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:17 pm

BTW I love how you've both made accounts (assuming it is 2 different people) solely to dispute a discussion on an entirely unofficial forum which has little impact beyond person opinion. No comments on any other topics except this one, great input lads...

by Lazarus Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:34 pm

Villa_Dan wrote:You can no more disprove rumours than I can prove them. It's all opinions, of which you guys seem entirely unwilling to accept some disagree with yours.

We're not talking about opinions here, we're talking about accusations. If you make an accusation then you should back it up. This is how law works, the burden of proof lies with those making the accusations, not those being accused. Otherwise we could all go round making absurd statements. I could say I saw a unicorn painting Paul McGrath's portrait with a brush made from one of Christian Karembeu's dreads and demand you produce proof that I didn't, but that would of course be ridiculous.

by Villa_Dan Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:18 pm

Actually this isn't a matter of law as we are discussing rumour. Which does not require any burden of proof. Unless you wish to suggest it is slanderous, in which case the burden of proof lies on you to disprove it as I believe discussions about Brigada fall under the remit of public interest, therefore defending my statements and shifting said burden to yourself.

If you want to lawyer things up it helps to have a law background.

So yes, it is all rumour, conjecture, and opinion. I have had conversations on Brigada with other fans who have witnessed these events and have formed my opinion based upon these conversations - rumour and opinion. Unless you can present evidence to the contrary then your own opinions are also based on rumour.

I have no opinion either way on their political leanings whatsoever. Merely their behaviour towards other fans, I've mentioned many times on here than I am a massive opponent of Villa fans attacking other Villa fans, physically or verbally, as I believe we should all be pulling in the same direction.

by jeffvilla Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:56 am

Ok here are the facts.!!!! as eye witnessed.
Since the brigada have moved in to the lower holt they have been a bloody nuisance. They stand up blocking view, upsetting other supporters, they will NOT sit down when the stewards ask them, which means that other stewards arrive blocking more of the view. One bloke was punched in the face. I know this for a fact because I talked to the bloke that was punched for asking them to sit down. These are the facts. !!!!!!!!
The quicker they feck off the better
Ok red mist has arrived, another thing when the rest off the holt are singing why are these Muppets chanting another song, can these people NOT join in or are they there just to cause trouble? I am sick of them , the stewards are sick of the them, the people that have the misfortune to sit behind them are sick of them and the bloody club is sick of them. Again this is a fact because I have reported them to the security people at Villa Park.
Why not just behave and when you get caught standing STOP shouting if you love villa stand up, because innocent people think they are doing it for the club, not for a mindless bunch of thugs. Brigada 1874 and Standing - The Rant! - Page 2 1015550615

Brigada 1874 and Standing - The Rant! - Page 2 1015550615

VTID

by Villa_Dan Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:30 am

jeffvilla wrote:Ok here are the facts.!!!! as eye witnessed.
Since the brigada have moved in to the lower holt they have been a bloody nuisance. They stand up blocking view, upsetting other supporters, they will NOT sit down when the stewards ask them, which means that other stewards arrive blocking more of the view. One bloke was punched in the face. I know this for a fact because I talked to the bloke that was punched for asking them to sit down. These are the facts. !!!!!!!!
The quicker they feck off the better
Ok red mist has arrived, another thing when the rest off the holt are singing why are these Muppets chanting another song, can these people NOT join in or are they there just to cause trouble? I am sick of them , the stewards are sick of the them, the people that have the misfortune to sit behind them are sick of them and the bloody club is sick of them. Again this is a fact because I have reported them to the security people at Villa Park.
Why not just behave and when you get caught standing STOP shouting if you love villa stand up, because innocent people think they are doing it for the club, not for a mindless bunch of thugs. VTID

Jeff, you've echoed the things I have heard about Brigada which just makes me believe it further. The same accounts coming from different places. And the handful of members who support them like those above, to me, just look overly defensive and try to deflect from these incidents.

They've assaulted fellow Villa fans for little to no reason. The glassing incident, dress it up how you like but not a single punch was thrown until a Brigada member glassed the lad, defend it how you like but that makes him a cnut.

I am sure there are a number of members who genuinely have decent intentions - to create a good atmosphere and drive the team on - but there are a significant number who just want to be dickheads, act like minor characters in Football Factory, or have read the old hooligan books and want to try to relive it.

by exiled brummie Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:23 am

Lazarus wrote:Some of the accusations on here vary from the absurd to the defamatory.

Aggressive behaviour towards stewards - no one has been aggressive and no one has been chucked out for being aggressive, they've been chucked out for standing and have always begrudgingly complied with stewards wishes.

Beating up women - this is ridiculous, if you're going to make accusations like this then I suggest some evidence is provided because otherwise it just sounds like you're trying to smear someone.

Recruitruiting agents of the UAF - this is hilarious, have you got any proof that any members are part of the UAF? I know a few of them and they aren't the placard waving types!

As for the incident in the pub, as has been mentioned, if a mob of lads turn up at the pub you drink in with the stated intention to attack you then this is the kind of thing that can happen, it's not big and it's not clever.

SABCAT (Anarchist Workers Co-operative) "We got into town at around 10am with our friends from Villa Antifascists and went for a look about ....We strolled past Risa down to the bottom of Broad St to the Golden Boys statue where the UAF and others had announced their intention to meet and try to prevent the EDL from reaching Centenary Square.....Some of our number managed to get caught in the UAF pen in Chamberlain Square... This t-shirt is a fundraiser for Brigada 1874 an Aston Villa Ultras group. They’re long time friends of Sabcat"

by DomAVFC Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:24 am

exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:Some of the accusations on here vary from the absurd to the defamatory.

Aggressive behaviour towards stewards - no one has been aggressive and no one has been chucked out for being aggressive, they've been chucked out for standing and have always begrudgingly complied with stewards wishes.

Beating up women - this is ridiculous, if you're going to make accusations like this then I suggest some evidence is provided because otherwise it just sounds like you're trying to smear someone.

Recruitruiting agents of the UAF - this is hilarious, have you got any proof that any members are part of the UAF? I know a few of them and they aren't the placard waving types!

As for the incident in the pub, as has been mentioned, if a mob of lads turn up at the pub you drink in with the stated intention to attack you then this is the kind of thing that can happen, it's not big and it's not clever.

SABCAT (Anarchist Workers Co-operative) "We got into town at around 10am with our friends from Villa Antifascists and went for a look about ....We strolled past Risa down to the bottom of Broad St to the Golden Boys statue where the UAF and others had announced their intention to meet and try to prevent the EDL from reaching Centenary Square.....Some of our number managed to get caught in the UAF pen in Chamberlain Square... This t-shirt is a fundraiser for Brigada 1874 an Aston Villa Ultras group. They’re long time friends of Sabcat"

Do you have a link to the source of this? So far you've just put a conversation in quotation marks without saying where they said it.

by Villa_Dan Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:43 am

DomAVFC wrote:
exiled brummie wrote:
Lazarus wrote:Some of the accusations on here vary from the absurd to the defamatory.

Aggressive behaviour towards stewards - no one has been aggressive and no one has been chucked out for being aggressive, they've been chucked out for standing and have always begrudgingly complied with stewards wishes.

Beating up women - this is ridiculous, if you're going to make accusations like this then I suggest some evidence is provided because otherwise it just sounds like you're trying to smear someone.

Recruitruiting agents of the UAF - this is hilarious, have you got any proof that any members are part of the UAF? I know a few of them and they aren't the placard waving types!

As for the incident in the pub, as has been mentioned, if a mob of lads turn up at the pub you drink in with the stated intention to attack you then this is the kind of thing that can happen, it's not big and it's not clever.

SABCAT (Anarchist Workers Co-operative) "We got into town at around 10am with our friends from Villa Antifascists and went for a look about ....We strolled past Risa down to the bottom of Broad St to the Golden Boys statue where the UAF and others had announced their intention to meet and try to prevent the EDL from reaching Centenary Square.....Some of our number managed to get caught in the UAF pen in Chamberlain Square... This t-shirt is a fundraiser for Brigada 1874 an Aston Villa Ultras group. They’re long time friends of Sabcat"

Do you have a link to the source of this? So far you've just put a conversation in quotation marks without saying where they said it.

http://sabcat.com/product/brigada-1874-benefit-t-shirt/

by Lazarus Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:42 pm

May I suggest Dan that when you post rumours you mention that they're just that as opposed to stating them as fact. That would help qualify the fact that you are just reporting a rumour that you've heard and not stating something that actually happened.

Jeff, whenever the Holte sings Brigada join in with them, however they also fill the gaps in between. This has been the case for the last 4 years.

As for your sugegstion that "someone got punched" can I ask who punched who? There was a chap who attacked a young lad who was standing with our group, I think this was at the United game, but again this incident wasn't instigated by the group. It's also worth noting that the group didn't start the "stand up if you love villa" chant against Man City, that was started by fans around us who were pissed off with stewards throwing their weight about and it was nice to see the support from fellow Villans.

by jeffvilla Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:34 pm

I think you will find it was the brigada who started the "stand up" chant after the stewards told them to sit down. I am close enough to see and hear it. Also it was a fact that the bloke was punched for telling them to sit down. Unfortunately it appears that the brigada can do no wrong not us but someone else.

by Lazarus Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:02 pm

jeffvilla wrote:I think you will find it was the brigada who started the "stand up" chant after the stewards told them to sit down. I am close enough to see and hear it. Also it was a fact that the bloke was punched for telling them to sit down. Unfortunately it appears that the brigada can do no wrong not us but someone else.

The Brigada members were singing "supporting your team is not a crime" when others around them started singing "stand up if you love villa", you can see it on the video here.

Do you think that with the constant filming of the group that this person would've been picked up for supposedly punching someone who told him to sit down? Seeing as the group can't sneeze without it being mentioned I think something like this would've been picked up by the stewards/club/police. Like I've said i've not seen nor heard of anyone being punched for telling anyone to sit down and it's not something that any of the lads would do so it sounds like more nonsence.

by DomAVFC Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:09 pm

http://sabcat.com/product/brigada-1874-benefit-t-shirt/[/quote]

Thanks Dan, interesting stuff. Too many people on forums these days shy away when asked for actual evidence of their claims! (Before people construe this as an attack on them, it isn't, it's merely a general observation).

by jeffvilla Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:14 pm

Unfortunately DomAVFC I sit close to these so called supporters my lad and myself have been going to villa for the last 12 years, this is the first time I have had problems. They appeared at the start of the season and have been trouble since. To be honest I am sick of it. FFS why can they not behave like reasonable people.

by Lazarus Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:26 pm

jeffvilla wrote:Unfortunately DomAVFC I sit close to these so called supporters my lad and myself have been going to villa for the last 12 years, this is the first time I have had problems. They appeared at the start of the season and have been trouble since. To be honest I am sick of it. FFS why can they not behave like reasonable people.

The group would've stayed in L8 where they'd been for the previous 2 seasons had more seats been available there for others to join, however the club blocked 20-30 seats from sale each game due to people migrating over from other parts of the Holte. The group moved forward to L7 as it was also part of the "singing section" that the club established last season, I very much doubt they would've bothered had they known that the club had decided to abandon the idea. I'm not sure that standing up at the game should lead you to question their support though, surely it's an example of their support not something that disproves it?!

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:37 pm

Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

by Villa_Dan Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:44 pm

Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

by Lazarus Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:53 pm

Villa_Dan wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Most of the accusations in this thread sound like total made up bullshit if you ask me, but wildly accusing this lot seems like the name of the game lately.

Which parts?

I've been told personally by someone who said they witnessed a woman get hit (he could've been exagerating, I admit it is 3rd hand information), Jeff spoke to a bloke who said he'd been hit by 1 of them, they freely admit glassing another Villa fan only dispute the details around it, and there's a website regarding SABCAT/UAF remarks.

So we have the 1st hand account of someone who spoke to the victim, admission of the glassing, and printed proof of the links to SABCAT. The only disputable elements are either the events leading up to the glassing or the assault on the woman of which I have nothing solid on

1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I can't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.

by Villa_Dan Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:04 pm

Your ability to read and follow a train of thought is staggering so I'll break it down for you

Lazarus wrote:1. Someone said something that wasn't true, that you now say may be an "exaggeration".
I am accepting that I received it 3rd hand and passed on, I haven't said it IS an exaggeration just that it might be. Learn the difference.

2. Again there is no proof that this happened and i'd suggest that if it had the police/club or stewards would've been all over it in a flash.
Jeff has been told it from the person who claimed to be punched. That seems like a pretty fucking strong source.

3. The details around this confrontation have already been mentioned. A group of Villa EDL turned up at the pub Brigada drank in with the express intention of attacking them, what ensued wasn't pretty but it happened.
Which demonstrates EXACTLY my point - it happened, the only dispute is that circumstances surrounding it. That is literally what I wrote.

4. Sabcat make t-shirts for a range of companies, charities and organisations. They made a t-shirt for brigada, it's hardly an expose is it. I cna't see what this has to do with the UAF, but you obviously have an axe to grind about them.
Only a few posts ago I told you I have no interested whatsoever in their political stances or actions. I was simply repeating what someone else posted on it

Now, does all that make sense?

by Sponsored content