Re: Takeover thread. What will happen now. ?

[stewiek]

No he's not me Chris

On topicish I think the issue regards Cleverly is the fee. £8m for a player who hasnt really set the world alight amd who is in the final year of his contract.

[kimbo]

This Cleverley fee was my fear months ago. This could be the start of big things happening.

In the past when clubs have been sold other clubs hold them to ransom for higher fees. It happened with Man Utd, Chelsea, and Man City now it could be happening to us. Maybe information about the sale is beginning to circulate in the football world.

Hull had the same bid though. I don't think there is anything more than just an enquiry made, figure given and bid made. Glad to be wrong though, of course!

[Trotters]

Lambert shouldn't be sacked it would be suicide he kept us up with a worse team last year so until the club is sold lambert should stay and survival should be priority unless we go tony pulis who'd be safe enough

Agree. Sack him and we could go down.

No matter how hard I try, those two posts make no sense to me whatsoever.

[Alpe_DHuez]

Say what you want about Lambert but he is stubborn in the face or it all falling apart. Last season we were sh*thouse for a lot of it but the "we go again" attitude prevented a complete collapse imo. I would rather watch this villa team have a go (most of the time without much quality) then a team no longer care and spiral out of control. I remember towards the end of mcleishs reign the team spirit was completely lacking and no one seemed to care (correct me if im wrong). Even martinez couldnt keep a budget team in the premiership.

[Trotters]

I'm still not sure why people insist that we've not spent money.

Here's a breakdown of Lambert's spending (around £48m all up):

[Rawlie]

This whole Cleverley thing makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!! I really can't get my head around it at all. In fact this whole summer's transfer business has been decidedly odd.

Case in point, we were, quite consistently, linked with Kiyotake, who ended up moving within Germany. The fee touted was much less than that of Cleverley and he was a player that a fair few fans (Julie Bayley anyone!!) had the hots for. So, a player the manager wants (at least he did last season), a player the fans want, comparatively cheap (purportedly 4 million Euros) and wanted to come to us, apparently. Instead we go out and get Joe Cole, who 5 years ago would have been great, but now?

Another nutty one... We need (yet another) left back. Kieran Richardson comes in and everyone expects him and Gordon (Bennett) to fight it out. Then out of the blue comes Cissokho, who may not have been great at Liverpool, but someone I rated highly while playing for a massively dominant Lyon team a few years back. Couple that with Sanchez arriving in a similar fashion, i.e. for a fee, then you can't help but wonder whether things have changed from the time we signed Sendeross, Cole and Richardson in early July, to now.

Onto Cleverley... 8 million on a player that isn't that bad and might be good for us, but in a PR sense, hardly a signing to instil confidence into an already agitated fan base. If you wanted a 'win' with fans, the media and, most importantly, on the pitch, surely you'd be going for Kagawa or someone of his ilk?

Kagawa: World class - check, a true 'number 10' - check, stirs up excitement amongst the supporters - check, PR win for Randy and Paul - check, merchandise sales boost in Asia - check

Cleverley: World class - no comment, a true 'number 10' - apparently he used to be, but not under Moyes or Van Gaal, stirs up excitement amongst the supporters - has divided the fan base, PR win for Randy and Paul - FFS, merchandise sales boost in Asia - 'Kureberey?? Kare wa dare desu ka?'

Something has changed... I'm not convinced it means a takeover is on the way, but something has happened for Randy to make funds available. Personally, my take on it is that Merrill Lynch have said that the investment, if Villa were a house, was so dilapidated that it wouldn't sell even at a knock down price. I hope I'm wrong, but, Cleverley sounds very much like a Lambert signing and unless the new owners were going to unconditionally back, not sack him, I reckon it's our current, 'Public Relations-ly' challenged, owner who has sanctioned this move.

[lukevilla]

I'm still not sure why people insist that we've not spent money.

Here's a breakdown of Lambert's spending (around £48m all up):

No way was Benteke 10 million! All i would say is Lambert hasent had a lot of money to spend with the wages which is the most imporant thing!

[Trotters]

Good point! The wages are definitely a factor I'd not considered.

As for Rawlie's post, a player like Kagawa isn't going to answer the phone to Paul Lambert. Players are about (a) money (b) winning things (c) improving their reputation. Villa offers none of the above.

I'm surprised Cleverley wants to come here, tbh. I wonder if he'll be the next Stephen Ireland that looks grumpy as fuck & lies through his teeth in his press conference and then does fuck all for his wages?

[lukevilla]

Good point! The wages are definitely a factor I'd not considered.

As for Rawlie's post, a player like Kagawa isn't going to answer the phone to Paul Lambert. Players are about (a) money (b) winning things (c) improving their reputation. Villa offers none of the above.

I'm surprised Cleverley wants to come here, tbh. I wonder if he'll be the next Stephen Ireland that looks grumpy as fuck & lies through his teeth in his press conference and then does fuck all for his wages?

I dont think Lambert has had loads to spend because even if he had 25 million a season which you would say is good even hull and west ham have beaten that this season and Lambert hasent had that this summer!

[DR Peters]

At one point I was hopeful a take over would happen but I'm less convinced now. As I see it either 1 of two things have happened

1) New owners are lined up and have agreed a price plus anything that we spend on transfers upto a certain amount, say 20m. Why do I think this is a possibility? Let's say a new owner comes along and a deal is agreed but they know it won't be completed before the end of the transfer window, they agree to cover any money spent on transfers even if the deal falls apart at the last minute, a non refundable deposit if you like. It would make sense as the club needed to move forward and without spending money now would have its hands tied until January (could be too late)

2) As stated above, there has been interest but those interested have said the club is so far away from being top 6 and needs so much work they are not prepared to meet the asking price, even if lowered. In order to make the club attractive Randy has to do something in order to sell and therefor releases funds.
Now whether us fans or any potential owners like what the money is spent on is of course open to debate.

I hope it's number 1 but I fear it's number 2 and the reason I fear it is because apart from the fact that Lambert appears to have no idea how to get the best out of players or even how to set a team up to win a game most of his transfer dealings have been shocking.
There are or have been better players than Cleverley available this summer for the same price or less. Plus in our current state I would have preferred to spen the $8m on a striker, even if that was spent on wages for someone on loan. Why we didn't go for Zaha I don't know.
Personally I think we need pace and width, maybe if we were getting crosses in Bent might score enough until Trekkers is back. I say maybe, because I don't rate Bent that highly but given decent service could be a stop gap.
I can see us playing with Sanchez, Delph and Cleverley in midfield which means 3 upfront and Gabby, Andi and Darren ain't gonna cut it I'm afraid

[Rawlie]

As for Rawlie's post, a player like Kagawa isn't going to answer the phone to Paul Lambert. Players are about (a) money (b) winning things (c) improving their reputation. Villa offers none of the above.

To be fair, I did mention someone of his ilk, but I'd also argue that if a takeover was in effect then he'd be exactly the sort we'd be contacting.

[TheLeftSide]

I'm still not sure why people insist that we've not spent money.

Here's a breakdown of Lambert's spending (around £48m all up):

Trotters - not so sure on some of those figures, but even so the bigger picture is missing. As pointed out there's the wages, this is a big factor in the quality of player. But for me what's missing here is the consideration if the players sold, and the bomb squad that's been in force until this summer.

Essentially what this means is he's spent 48m (?) on a squad, not team if 11 a SQUAD. That's £48m on 22 players (I've taken cuellar and Holman off the bought column). Working out to be £2.2m a player? If the fees are correct as we know Tekkers was a good couple of mil short of that £10m fee. In the English Premier league, a SQUAD costing £48m is absolutely peanuts, teams that come up to the prem generally spend half that in their 1st season and that's adding to the squad they had already which would be be decent enough in the 1st place to get promoted.

I really don't get how anyone can say he's been backed financially for the job in hand - I would accept it IF the 48m was supplementing a squad, but not a complete rebuild.

I'm not starting a lambert good or evil discussion, I just think it's fair to point this out.

[TheLeftSide]

At one point I was hopeful a take over would happen but I'm less convinced now. As I see it either 1 of two things have happened

1) New owners are lined up and have agreed a price plus anything that we spend on transfers upto a certain amount, say 20m. Why do I think this is a possibility? Let's say a new owner comes along and a deal is agreed but they know it won't be completed before the end of the transfer window, they agree to cover any money spent on transfers even if the deal falls apart at the last minute, a non refundable deposit if you like. It would make sense as the club needed to move forward and without spending money now would have its hands tied until January (could be too late)

2) As stated above, there has been interest but those interested have said the club is so far away from being top 6 and needs so much work they are not prepared to meet the asking price, even if lowered. In order to make the club attractive Randy has to do something in order to sell and therefor releases funds.
Now whether us fans or any potential owners like what the money is spent on is of course open to debate.

I hope it's number 1 but I fear it's number 2 and the reason I fear it is because apart from the fact that Lambert appears to have no idea how to get the best out of players or even how to set a team up to win a game most of his transfer dealings have been shocking.
There are or have been better players than Cleverley available this summer for the same price or less. Plus in our current state I would have preferred to spen the $8m on a striker, even if that was spent on wages for someone on loan. Why we didn't go for Zaha I don't know.
Personally I think we need pace and width, maybe if we were getting crosses in Bent might score enough until Trekkers is back. I say maybe, because I don't rate Bent that highly but given decent service could be a stop gap.
I can see us playing with Sanchez, Delph and Cleverley in midfield which means 3 upfront and Gabby, Andi and Darren ain't gonna cut it I'm afraid

Mr P :-)

Good post, one issue with it though

"maybe if we were getting crosses in Bent might score enough until Trekkers is back. I say maybe, because I don't rate Bent that highly but given decent service could be a stop gap."

Against Newcastle we got some cracking crosses in, in fact that was our most dangerous looking aspect, but bent wasn't playing it was gabby and andi, who half the time weren't in the box. You watch though, like you say if we had bent on the pitch we wouldn't get the crosses in as we don't have natural width unless the fullbacks go on marauding runs.

I too think and fear your looking at option 2, Randy tarting up to sell after realisation that it needs to be more attractive to receive offers.

[SouthernVilla]

I'm still not sure why people insist that we've not spent money.

Here's a breakdown of Lambert's spending (around £48m all up):

Trotters - not so sure on some of those figures, but even so the bigger picture is missing. As pointed out there's the wages, this is a big factor in the quality of player. But for me what's missing here is the consideration if the players sold, and the bomb squad that's been in force until this summer.

Essentially what this means is he's spent 48m (?) on a squad, not team if 11 a SQUAD. That's £48m on 22 players (I've taken cuellar and Holman off the bought column). Working out to be £2.2m a player? If the fees are correct as we know Tekkers was a good couple of mil short of that £10m fee. In the English Premier league, a SQUAD costing £48m is absolutely peanuts, teams that come up to the prem generally spend half that in their 1st season and that's adding to the squad they had already which would be be decent enough in the 1st place to get promoted.

I really don't get how anyone can say he's been backed financially for the job in hand - I would accept it IF the 48m was supplementing a squad, but not a complete rebuild.

I'm not starting a lambert good or evil discussion, I just think it's fair to point this out.

Well said Leftside, I don;t think he's been really "backed" and completely re-built a squad. He's done well to keep it up, but presided over some horros along the way. I also don't think the fees are anything like quoted here, Lambert himself alluded to that a couple of years ago when talking about Westwood, suggesting it was under a million.

But Cleverly is an odd one, I'm presuming there is a Keane influence at hand, but I'm prepared to watch and wait before writing him off!

[LVBrit]

Still doesn't explain why a 48m SQUAD can't beat Bradford, Millwall, Sheffield or Orient though.

[Villa_Dan]

I've always said and still stand by it - Lambo's failings have been tactical naivety and stubbornness, not transfer dealings. He's had to rebuild the squad with not enough money OR wages to do it on and has kept us up while doing so. Yes he's made some shite signings but I think overall his transfer dealings have been good.

His match day decisions are confusing to say the least though!

[viva_la_amo]

48M In 3 seasons to completely rebuild a squad?

[TheLeftSide]

Still doesn't explain why a 48m SQUAD can't beat Bradford, Millwall, Sheffield or Orient though.

Absolutely - and other low moments which can't be excused, I'm just pointing out the job in hand and the fact he has not had a lot to spend for the required task.

Could another manager have done the same? Don't know! Could another manager have done it without the embarrassing results? Don't know! But I do know we had a manager once that wasn't prepared to try and left us in the crap. One thing I will always be grateful to Lambert for is standing tall and cracking on with the job providing stability when it's been needed most. I don't believe there is any room for sentiment in football though and I have now reached the point where I think someone could coach these players better and be more adventurous.

I would love for him to kick on from this weekend and prove me wrong though - just like I hoped mcleish would do well, afterall if the manager does well the team does well and that's all I'm bothered in. Whether new owners would keep him on depends on him improving the entertainment and pulling some crowds back in I think, and hopefully he realises this and starts improving quickly before it's too late for him and us.

[Trotters]

Which is probably the combined totals of Bradford, Sheffield Utd, Millwall and Orient. Times two.

It's not a total rebuild - although I'll concede that it's a bit of a do-over. But he has said that he likes to play a certain way but didn't buy the players that are capable of doing that. So something has to change; either he buys different players (he can't) or he changes the way he wants to play (he seemingly can't do that either).

[Trotters]

Left Side: I read your comments on Lambert sticking to the job and my first thought is "well, good point, yes he has done that I suppose". But then I reflect on the apparent contract he has knowing that for every year he sticks it out, his payoff gets bigger and bigger.

So his sacrifice on the alter of football management isn't so much of a hardship.

[Denis_B]

All teams can lose it is the way we lost those matches and the seeming inability of the manager to change tactics at some point.

We should have gone all out against Orient not played with one up front. Why didn't he change it? Who fecking knows

[Trotters]

And also....I can't stand him. Simple as that.

He can't seem to put a smile on his face when doing PR work for the company that pay him an absolute fortune. Why? He mumbles like a world champion misery-arse and he doesn't seem to have Clue 1 about tactics.

[Trotters]

All teams can lose it is the way we lost those matches and the seeming inability of the manager to change tactics at some point.

We should have gone all out against Orient not played with one up front. Why didn't he change it? Who fecking knows

I honestly don't think he sees what goes on on the football pitch. That's not being sarcastic. It's the way I perceive him from his (lack of) changes, strange changes and after-match comments.

I think he would benefit hugely from a change of perspective by  taking a seat in the upper Trinity with a wireless headset to Keane.

[DR Peters]

At one point I was hopeful a take over would happen but I'm less convinced now. As I see it either 1 of two things have happened

1) New owners are lined up and have agreed a price plus anything that we spend on transfers upto a certain amount, say 20m. Why do I think this is a possibility? Let's say a new owner comes along and a deal is agreed but they know it won't be completed before the end of the transfer window, they agree to cover any money spent on transfers even if the deal falls apart at the last minute, a non refundable deposit if you like. It would make sense as the club needed to move forward and without spending money now would have its hands tied until January (could be too late)

2) As stated above, there has been interest but those interested have said the club is so far away from being top 6 and needs so much work they are not prepared to meet the asking price, even if lowered. In order to make the club attractive Randy has to do something in order to sell and therefor releases funds.
Now whether us fans or any potential owners like what the money is spent on is of course open to debate.

I hope it's number 1 but I fear it's number 2 and the reason I fear it is because apart from the fact that Lambert appears to have no idea how to get the best out of players or even how to set a team up to win a game most of his transfer dealings have been shocking.
There are or have been better players than Cleverley available this summer for the same price or less. Plus in our current state I would have preferred to spen the $8m on a striker, even if that was spent on wages for someone on loan. Why we didn't go for Zaha I don't know.
Personally I think we need pace and width, maybe if we were getting crosses in Bent might score enough until Trekkers is back. I say maybe, because I don't rate Bent that highly but given decent service could be a stop gap.
I can see us playing with Sanchez, Delph and Cleverley in midfield which means 3 upfront and Gabby, Andi and Darren ain't gonna cut it I'm afraid

Mr P :-)

Good post, one issue with it though

"maybe if we were getting crosses in Bent might score enough until Trekkers is back. I say maybe, because I don't rate Bent that highly but given decent service could be a stop gap."

Against Newcastle we got some cracking crosses in, in fact that was our most dangerous looking aspect, but bent wasn't playing it was gabby and andi, who half the time weren't in the box. You watch though, like you say if we had bent on the pitch we wouldn't get the crosses in as we don't have natural width unless the fullbacks go on marauding runs.

I too think and fear your looking at option 2, Randy tarting up to sell after realisation that it needs to be more attractive to receive offers.

G'Day mate ;-)

We did get crosses in against Newcastle but not enough and the crosses were coming from the players we wanted in the box! What Lambert has done is take a couple of decent strikers in gabby and Weimann and tried to turn them into something they are not. Gabby has been awful for almost all the time Lambert has been here yet under previous managers he terrified defences and was on the fringe of the England squad.

Anyway going a bit off topic. I still hope there are new owners close, but am less convinced by the day. PDC has anything happened to make you think your info of a couple of weeks ago, while in good faith, was wrong or is the elephant gun still locked in its case?
Can anyone think of any other billionaires we can go to work on to find any links, don't care if they are realistic just the detective work that on here at TBAR

PS. It's DR Peters to you, I'm trying to sound intelligent !

[DN1982]

Still doesn't explain why a 48m SQUAD can't beat Bradford, Millwall, Sheffield or Orient though.

It doesn't explain how a. £48m squad can beat L'Arse Chelsea Man City etc Mad results happen so bringing good or bad up to prove a point is really pointless. The squads not good enough and the overall performances aren't good enough. Hopefully either through a sale or Lerners change of policy that can be rectified this window.

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