Liverpool v Aston Villa Saturday 26th September 2015

Veretout was good at controlling the play again. Surely worth a 90

That was a 3-2 hammering. We deserved nothing from that game and it's all down to the manager and coaches. We have no gameplan.

I just don't understand why we made the signings we did if we just intend on hoofing on towards Gestede.

At first I liked what we did, cause I thought we tried to emulate the early Arsenal teams. We basically signed player for player what they did, however where they signed Anelka, Adebayor, Kanu, Bendtner and now Giroud to be the play off point, we signed Gestede.

And it's not about the quality, cause it's obvious we aren't in a position to sign the top end quality. But it's about like CC says above, game plan. With our players we should not at all be hoofing. We have a ton of talented young players, from Grealish, Gil, Ayew and Traore to Veretout, Gana, Amavi. We have a cultured CB in Richards and options like Sinclair, Westwood etc. All these players would fit perfectly into a team striving for modern football with tons of movement and through balls...so WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU TURN THIS INTO A TEAM THAT HOOFS THE FUCKING BALL?? Swear I'm gonna need god damn pain killers tonight.

Just about everything Liverpool did came down our right. Nailed on certainty that, like last week against Blues, someone at Villa leaked our team and Rodgers new he could have a go at Sinclair and Hutton whilst keeping the ball well away from Grealish and Amavi.

With their wing backs so high up the pitch and really stretching our midfield, the solution should have been to stop playing their game and make them play ours.

At 2-0 down, the game was all but lost but the second Gestede dragged us back into it, dramatic changes should have been made. Instead, our fucking genius manager watched on as they got their two goal cushion back within minutes. Why not change things. Why not break all the momentum they had and turn the tide back in our favour? Why not - knowing that Rodgers was really under pressure - give him something to sweat about and go on the offensive in a big way?

Veretout was the right player to come on (but it should have been Westwood off, not Sanchez) and Traore should have come on for the fucking useless Sinclair.

We had to go for it and our flair triumvirate of Traore, Grealish and Gil would have sent Rodgers into full on shit-your-pants mode.

I've now gone from being excited about Sherwood, to pissed off all the way through to wanting him gone. From the looks of it, he's had a falling out with Ray Wilkins who sits elsewhere and seems to offer nothing, and I'm wondering if Tactics Tim is a fucking great know-it-all whose ego is out of control.

We made a statement of intent over the break to bring in a lot of good players. It's time to make another statement of intent and get rid of this fuckbag and do whatever we can to get someone like Klopp in to change the way we play.

I'm so pissed off. That was a shit Liverpool side, with a shit manager and we made them look like Germany.

Why was Sinclair playing on the right? Just why? We have right sided players, in particular Veretout, so why mix up the team again and try something new on a match we needed to win against opposition that needed to win? Lescott isn't ready, we need Clark back in. I still (sorry, I know, I know) maintain that Westwood should be where Sanchez is playing, Sanchez should be a second half sub to boss everyone around and there was a place there for Gil and Traore.

We don't have a settled enough side or defensive nous to defend for the first half so the opposition can take a lead for us to chase. We can't afford to try out players in new positions when we have significantly better players available. We can't give away goals. We have to take it to them, give them a load of shit, use our speed from Amavi, Gil, Traore and Grealish and the brute head of Gestede and get Westwood back where he knows to play, next to Gueye and in front of the defence distributing the ball forward. Kozak.

I am increasingly thinking Sherwood is a rabbit in headlights. The more he panics the worse this is going to get.

He's all over the shop but I don' think he's the type to take advice and listen to what others say. He's the boss so fuck everything else.

Lose next week and I don't think I'll be the only one wanting him gone.

Forget all the leaking teams bull, its obvious that teams are going to push where your weakest and keep the ball away from better players. We all know they were under pressure and we gave them the best start they could wish for, slack marking on a player who we know is dangerous (Milner) we do it regularly let players in dangerous positions go walkabout unmarked on our 18 yard line. I don't think we should start having a go at Tim just yet, if you all thought that we would be off and running with all the new players in the squad you are sadly lacking. I can see them starting to bed in and show a bit, just not enough to swing a win, but were not getting hammered, if we were then we would have cause to moan, it seems to me there's too many on here playing fifa football manager or such, calm down, we have bought better quality players this summer we just need to have the balls to let them acclimatise, don't start getting jumpy.

Saunders82 wrote:Forget all the leaking teams bull, its obvious that teams are going to push where your weakest and keep the ball away from better players. We all know they were under pressure and we gave them the best start they could wish for, slack marking on a player who we know is dangerous (Milner) we do it regularly let players in dangerous positions go walkabout unmarked on our 18 yard line. I don't think we should start having a go at Tim just yet, if you all thought that we would be off and running with all the new players in the squad you are sadly lacking. I can see them starting to bed in and show a bit, just not enough to swing a win, but were not getting hammered, if we were then we would have cause to moan, it seems to me there's too many on here playing fifa football manager or such, calm down, we have bought better quality players this summer we just need to have the balls to let them acclimatise, don't start getting jumpy.

At the very least Sherwood should be playing the best players for the positions they're in. Sinclair on the right, tracking back to help Hutton?

Their 3rd goal is what kills us.

When Westwood wins the ball and Sinclair receives it, he should just turn upfield and release Vertout, but he bottles it and passes back to Westwood.

Westwood should just lay it off to Richards who makes himself available in acres of space, and the break is on, with Grealish wide open.

But no; he plays it straight back to Gana who is under pressure from Milner.

Gana panics and plays it back and it rebounds into the path of Sturridge.

We know the rest.

It's schoolboy stuff and always seems to involve Westwood. Am I missing something? Is Westwood an Unsung Hero? Cos from what I can see he's costing us points on a regular basis.

Sanchez is another liability. How are Sanchez and Westwood still getting in the starting 11, ahead of Vertout, who can actually win the ball and then find one of his own team-mates?

What was the point in buying all these players in the Summer, if you're just going to stick with the same clowns who almost got us relegated last season?

Finally saw the goals from yesterday and a few things struck me: Hutton putting in the first good ball of his career for Gestede's first, Lescott does nothing but finger point and stand still, and the difference between our work rate and say, Leicesters, is appalling. The players could and should be running more and working harder.

Villa Ranger wrote:It's schoolboy stuff and always seems to involve Westwood. Am I missing something? Is Westwood an Unsung Hero? Cos from what I can see he's costing us points on a regular basis.

Sanchez is another liability. How are Sanchez and Westwood still getting in the starting 11, ahead of Vertout, who can actually win the ball and then find one of his own team-mates?

What was the point in buying all these players in the Summer, if you're just going to stick with the same clowns who almost got us relegated last season?

Agree, Westwood and Sanchez for me really need to earn their way into the starting eleven. Considering the concern for the French Connection and their lack of PL experience, here are two players for starters who are not new to this league but look far off the pace week in and out.

We're not going to get a glorious mid-table finish by fielding players who turn up to training on time but do fuck all on the pitch. The majority of people here have been very vocal (or the typing equivalent at least) about Gabby and Guzan needing to be Old Yeller'd but the same goes for Westwood as far as I can see and Sanchez I just can't wrap my head around how a well regarded international player can have zero consistency between domestic and international duties.

Sanchez & Westwood in the same starting line up = defeat, they occupy the same space and offer very little.

Guzan
Hutton Richards Clarke Amavi
Veretout Ganna
Traore Gil Grealish
Gestede

Back 6 defend , front 4 attack !

VillaBill wrote:Sanchez & Westwood in the same starting line up = defeat, they occupy the same space and offer very little.

          Guzan
Hutton Richards Clarke Amavi
     Veretout   Ganna
Traore    Gil     Grealish
         Gestede

Back 6 defend , front 4 attack !

I don particularly like Westwood or Sanchez, but the problem with that tactic is what we saw against Leicester. Neither Grealish or Gil (and I suspect Traore is the same type of player), are willing to track back a lot. Which means a two man midfield will get run over a LOT. This is why we need 3 central midfielders to cover enough ground. Veretout and Gana are given IMO. Now whether you want Sanchez or Westwood is debatable I guess. I'd prefer Westwood. With Westwood, Gana and Veretout we can let Gil and Grealish have more or less free roles.

I must confess, I really thought we'd get something from this game - a Liverpool team struggling for points (although not as badly as us) were ripe for the taking, or so it seemed (especially when you bear in mind they hadn't beaten us on their turf in the League in 4 attempts). However, we were our own worst enemy defensively, conceding a goal right after we scored our first. Incredible. It seems that, over these last few years, whenever a team in bad form has needed a pick-me-up, we've provided that. Need a win after loads of defeats in a row? No problem! Just play Aston Villa! Sherwood hasn't been able to avert this humiliating fact...yet.

Oh yeah. Stoke at home is now a must-win. If you'd have told BFR, Brian Little or JG 1 and a half to 2 decades ago that we would go to Leicester, go 2-0 up and lose 3-2 and then lose 1-0 at home to West Brom, they would have laughed their faces off at you. How times change.

I went to bed at 2-0 as I was so disgusted. It takes a lot for me to abandon the team but I guess I was too excited at the prospect of a new season, new players etc that I crashed back down to earth. If it had been against any other team but Snivelpool I could have coped better.
Onwards and upwards they say - but dear god - we need SOMETHING to get excited about.
VTID

It's incredible that a complete change of team, a complete change of on-pitch management and a change of off-pitch management (Randy seemingly letting Fox run the show) has absolutely no change in our league table status. Well, maybe a negative change.

It's like Sherwood is managin some Division 5 Over 35's team that's just joined the competition and he has no solid idea as to who plays where so he's trying new things every weekend.

What the actual fuck goes on in training that we're in this state? We've had injuries, sure, but show me a team that doesn't suffer them? I'm sure I read that Bournemouth have had three of their most talented players call in sick. Despite this, and having already lost to us, they're still 3 points better off.

The season is only going to get harder from here in. Anyone who isn't deeply concerned needs to give their head a wobble. We're are in shit.

Despite the changing of the whole team (near enough), the net spend was still very low so Lerner remains the core problem in not freeing up funds to buy a decent striker and a right back.

But who on here would have picked this team of players to be bottom at this stage? "Too good to go down" probably wasn't a fair summation of the last few seasons but I reckon it is time. No way in the world should this team be anywhere near the bottom.

Sherwood has lost the plot. He won't be fired so early into his tenure having brought so many new players in, but if he doesn't find the plot - and quickly - then this season could be it.

And after the most surprising transfer window ever, I just cannot believe I've written that.

Can someone put player ratings on here.

Missed the match, will watch highlights tonight. I'm not a big fan of westy tbh good squad player but doesn't offer enough to start for me plus too light weight.

Trotters wrote:It's incredible that a complete change of team, a complete change of on-pitch management and a change of off-pitch management (Randy seemingly letting Fox run the show) has absolutely no change in our league table status. Well, maybe a negative change.

It's like Sherwood is managin some Division 5 Over 35's team that's just joined the competition and he has no solid idea as to who plays where so he's trying new things every weekend.

What the actual fuck goes on in training that we're in this state? We've had injuries, sure, but show me a team that doesn't suffer them? I'm sure I read that Bournemouth have had three of their most talented players call in sick. Despite this, and having already lost to us, they're still 3 points better off.

The season is only going to get harder from here in. Anyone who isn't deeply concerned needs to give their head a wobble. We're are in shit.

Despite the changing of the whole team (near enough), the net spend was still very low so Lerner remains the core problem in not freeing up funds to buy a decent striker and a right back.

But who on here would have picked this team of players to be bottom at this stage? "Too good to go down" probably wasn't a fair summation of the last few seasons but I reckon it is time. No way in the world should this team be anywhere near the bottom.

Sherwood has lost the plot. He won't be fired so early into his tenure having brought so many new players in, but if he doesn't find the plot - and quickly - then this season could be it.

And after the most surprising transfer window ever, I just cannot believe I've written that.

Adebayor had to all intents and purposes signed for us, so there was the money there. The mistake made was someone somewhere - Fox? Sherwood? - thinking we were ok with the strikers we had.

We have some very good players we'll have trouble holding onto at the end of the season even if we stay in the PL. I'm thinking Amavi, Gueye and quite possibly Richards.

I have to say that if you look at how we've performed when we've gone all out attack that it's actually gone quite well. Scored 2 against Leicester and Liverpool and conceded the majority when we've tried to defend and sit back a bit more.

It's a bit like the England/Wales game on Saturday. England were great first half making forward runs and incisive lines. 10 points lead.
Came out second half and stopped running with the ball, kicked it away lots and in the end lost.

It's just like watching villa. If we were able to keep that attacking intent we will win a lot more games than we lose. The players look lost trying to slow it down and keep possession and generally that's when the sloppy mistakes appear. Keep the tempo high and attack attack attack.

We went on the attack against Leicester and then when he brought on two attacking players rather than fill the midfield and protect the lead it all went wrong and we lost. Sherwood hasn't learnt from that too well, he's set us up to defend the first half and then go on the attack in the second. If it were me I'd set up the team in a 4-3-3, go on the attack and make subs/change formation/go on the defensive as the game progresses. We need confidence and points, and players like Veretout in the team. Adebayor can come to the team in January (subject to signs from above) or we can strengthen elsewhere, and then Sherwood can have a look at playing around and trying alternative tactics or whatever. What he should have learnt so far is that none of the tactics he's used so far work.

Maybe I've just not seen it but the Liverpool game was a very deep lying zone. We gave Liverpool their half plus ten yards of ours and made them try to get between our line of midfielders and the 4 at the back. All Liverpool did was continually target our right side and it all fell to shit for us.

That Sherwood failed to see that the zone/giving up half the pitch wasn't working was deeply concerning. Setting up like that against a team like Barcelona or Bayern and maybe trying to grind out a desperate draw would be fair enough. But this is a pretty average Liverpool side who had a couple of injuries and a manager under huge pressure.

I get that Sherwood wanted to keep them quiet for 15 or 20 minutes and get the crowd a bit pissed off but even if Milner hadn't scored early doors, the scouse fans would have seen it was only a matter of time before Coutinho got around our parked bus.

It's all very well with the clarity of hindsight but Sherwood got just about everything wrong. And that was pretty clear from the word go.

And it's pissed me off that he's commenting to the media that we shouldn't be going to Liverpool, getting 2 goals and not coming way with points. As someone said on here (sorry, I can't recall who) but we were murderded and the two goals flattered us.

But when we did get our first early needed to make drastic changes and go for it. We just didn't.

If Veretout doesn't start against Stoke then I'll be dismayed. If Clark doesn't come in to replace Lescott, I'll be dismayed. If he plays Sinclair on the right, etc and so on.

Trotters wrote:But this is a pretty average Liverpool side who had a couple of injuries and a manager under huge pressure

To emphasise just how bad this Liverpool side is, my Liverpool season ticket holder mate has emailed me this morning....Liverpool have won only 5 games in the league since March.....against the teams that are currently sitting in 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th in the Prem plus 12th in the Championship!

Oh, and Villa are the first side they've scored more than one goal against in the league since May.

Watching this again now. Sanchez and Sinclair utter woeful.

Sanchez is unsure of his role it seems. He comes im too late to put pressure and leaves too much room behind him. Milner was relishing all that space.

And Westwood is instrumental to anything we build up. The criticism he gets is ridiculous. Simply doesn't make any sense. He is muuuuch better than Sanchez.

And Sturridge just put in two nil. Guess who fluffed his interception leading to the goal? Sanchez.

Westwood is is championship at best a poor player

villajk wrote:Westwood is is championship at best a poor player

That's just a silly comment. Quite obvious he is a solid player, and even if you intend to stick to that idea, it doesn't change the fact that he is better than Sanchez. Thus he should play most of the time.