Tim Sherwood: Villa reject

He gave the perfect reply today. Acted with grace and dignity, BUT got the job done, well done Timothy, I'm glad to have you at our club.

Nice one Tim mate, keep it up!

Anyone know what's going on with Okore?? I think he's been good for us but seems to get dropped at the first opportunity??

gdav wrote:Anyone know what's going on with Okore?? I think he's been good for us but seems to get dropped at the first opportunity??

I honestly think that Sherwood just really likes Vlaar.

For what it's worth, if Westwood isn't fit for Wembley, I'd really like us to look at Okore for defensive midfield.

I really REALLY rate Okore. He's going to be a top draw defender

But Vlaar is more proven when he's fit and on form

Villa_Dan wrote:I really REALLY rate Okore. He's going to be a top draw defender

But Vlaar is more proven when he's fit and on form

I think it all comes down to experience in the end especially in the position Villa find themselves.

achilles wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:I really REALLY rate Okore. He's going to be a top draw defender

But Vlaar is more proven when he's fit and on form

I think it all comes down to experience in the end especially in the position Villa find themselves.

Yeah pretty much. I think that long-term, Okore will actually be a better player than Vlaar. But right now, I think Vlaar is still an asset that we can use, and it would be daft not to. I thought he was ace yesterday.

I agree re Vlaar, I'm not his biggest fan (less so as it's clear he wants out) but he was superb yesterday and has that bit of experience to get us through, he will be vital if Clark is missing (I think Clark and Okore are better together as Clark likes to organise and lead and can't do that next to Vlaar)

To summarise, I don't think anything is up, it's all about being safe, but like the situation with Gil, one for next season.

GadgetMan wrote:I agree re Vlaar, I'm not his biggest fan (less so as it's clear he wants out) but he was superb yesterday and has that bit of experience to get us through, he will be vital if Clark is missing (I think Clark and Okore are better together as Clark likes to organise and lead and can't do that next to Vlaar)

To summarise, I don't think anything is up, it's all about being safe, but like the situation with Gil, one for next season.

What suggest Vlaar wants out? for what its worth i think if we stay up he will sign a new contract!

The notion is that the likes of Man Utd will be after him. I personally don't think he's good enough to warrant top notch admiration. But if he stays, I'm happy enough.

Injury prone though, so I wouldn't plan a defence around him, and for that reason nobody else of note will either.

I can't see any top European side go in for Vlaar, he's a good player but also one of the most injury prone I've seen in a villa shirt for a while.

Mazrim wrote:The notion is that the likes of Man Utd will be after him. I personally don't think he's good enough to warrant top notch admiration. But if he stays, I'm happy enough.

Injury prone though, so I wouldn't plan a defence around him, and for that reason nobody else of note will either.

They would of got him last summer if they were going to get him IMO!

GadgetMan wrote:I agree re Vlaar, I'm not his biggest fan (less so as it's clear he wants out) but he was superb yesterday and has that bit of experience to get us through, he will be vital if Clark is missing (I think Clark and Okore are better together as Clark likes to organise and lead and can't do that next to Vlaar)

To summarise, I don't think anything is up, it's all about being safe, but like the situation with Gil, one for next season.

I really hope Sherwood has had that conversation with Gil. If he has, I'll sleep much easier 

Results speak for themselves. Sherwood is getting it right even though he's ignoring Okore and Gil at the moment. If we survive we will really see Tim's stamp on next season's team.

I think (Hope) that Sherwood is just ignoring them because he wants players with experience of relegation battles and who are able to fight for wins. Okore is inexperienced and, as much as I like him, Gil isn't a fighter

I keep seeing that Gil 'isn't a fighter'. What are we basing that on? How much have any of us seen him? I'd hardly class Joe Cole or Charles N'Zogbia as 'fighters', but he has far more quality than both combined - and I'm basing that on him doing more in less than a handful of games than than those two combined for the majority of their Villa careers.

N'Zogbia is built much more soundly and has years of experience of relegation battles at Wigan, Joe Cole has won the Premier League, FA Cup and league cup (all more than once!), he's also played in the Champions League final. Gil has more fitness than Cole but not more quality. Gil got the shit kicked out of him by Stoke. Cole has a goal and an assist in the league, the same number as Gil has in all comps but he's won us more points.

I know we like Gil and he's looked really good but he isn't a fighter and nor does he have anywhere near the experience of Cole.

Against Stoke though - how many players can that be said about!

As for Cole's one assist and one goal, that's also in almost three times the amount of appearances.

Cole also bottled a challenge at Man U that made me spit feathers.

Don't get me wrong - I like Joe Cole, for a while I got enraged that he was always the England midfielder that got withdrew when he was often the best player on the pitch. If we had a fully fit Joe Cole, even at his age, he'd be an asset.

And to be honest, my rage about Carles Gil isn't really about Cole, and I am a fan of Grealish as I have stated numerous times, my problem is seeing a complete waste of space like N'Zogbia or Weimann ahead of him in midfield.

That's my point about Gil - it's not that I love the bloke so much I want him in the team, it's seeing turgid shite ahead of him that winds me up. The current formation with Grealish at the top, I'm cool with. Seeing N'Zgobia and Weimann as part of a 4-man midfield at Old Trafford, I'm really not cool with.

But also, I just don't see how anyone can claim they know enough about Gil to state he isn't a fighter. He's been at Elche for two years, we all know what end of the table they normally compete at. 

I refuse to condemn a man as not being a fighter on the basis of being outphysicalled (not a word, I know :) ) by the most physical team in the league - and there are time when we need a bit more finesse than Andi Weimann running around like a headless chicken, giving the ball away every time it comes near him, or Charles N'Zogbia running into defenders every 5 minutes.

I don't think the Spanish teams have the same "fight" tbh! I think the only thing getting Zog into the team is his bodyshape (to but it politely) and previous experience in this league. I'd prefer to see Gil ahead of him, but as it stands we need to be able to bully teams about at times and Gil can't do it. I think Grealish is making a case for taking Gil's place more longterm but I still think we'll see more of Gil next season.

As for Joe Cole, I love his 20min cameos. He still looks a class act when he comes on.

I will say for Cole, he did knock one beautiful pass at Old Trafford that was still more than Zog/Weimann did combined.

I actually love the idea of 4-2-3-1 with Gil on the right, Cole in the middle and Grealish on the left, but now is not the time for such things!

Cole certainly joins the likes of Schmeichel, Johnsen, Regis, Phillips and plenty more in the 'I wish we'd signed them when they were younger' category.

Agreed but I think we'd have to have been a darn site better to have signed him!! Or at least willing to pay more haha

kimbo wrote:Against Stoke though - how many players can that be said about!

As for Cole's one assist and one goal, that's also in almost three times the amount of appearances.

Cole also bottled a challenge at Man U that made me spit feathers.

Don't get me wrong - I like Joe Cole, for a while I got enraged that he was always the England midfielder that got withdrew when he was often the best player on the pitch. If we had a fully fit Joe Cole, even at his age, he'd be an asset.

And to be honest, my rage about Carles Gil isn't really about Cole, and I am a fan of Grealish as I have stated numerous times, my problem is seeing a complete waste of space like N'Zogbia or Weimann ahead of him in midfield.

That's my point about Gil - it's not that I love the bloke so much I want him in the team, it's seeing turgid shite ahead of him that winds me up. The current formation with Grealish at the top, I'm cool with. Seeing N'Zgobia and Weimann as part of a 4-man midfield at Old Trafford, I'm really not cool with.

But also, I just don't see how anyone can claim they know enough about Gil to state he isn't a fighter. He's been at Elche for two years, we all know what end of the table they normally compete at. 

I refuse to condemn a man as not being a fighter on the basis of being outphysicalled (not a word, I know :) ) by the most physical team in the league - and there are time when we need a bit more finesse than Andi Weimann running around like a headless chicken, giving the ball away every time it comes near him, or Charles N'Zogbia running into defenders every 5 minutes.

But it is not just anyone is it, that is making the decision?

Sometimes it is necessary to take deep breaths and just let it go!

The acid test is next season, until then breath deeply!

On a personal note I don't think Gil will be here next season but we shall see, nothing is ever set in stone!

Sherwood has to believe we can win a match and then he has to communicate that belief to the players. If he honestly believed we'd have more chance of winning with CG and JO they'd be in the team.

I believe that Gil is easily our most talented player and I would love to see him play, but I don't have to sell the winning idea to the team each match .... Tim does!

Yes, but essentially telling me to just shut up and accept the managers decision kind of defeats the object of an internet forum, does it not?  :)

kimbo wrote:Yes, but essentially telling me to just shut up and accept the managers decision kind of defeats the object of an internet forum, does it not?  :)

Absolutely!

P.S. I do actually agree with you!