Protest/Demonstration (With Poll)

Thought I'd create a thread for this as I guess they'll be plenty of chat after today and I don't think it's the last one.

My view (independent from TBAR) is good for those involved, Apathy has reigned far too long and I applaud those who are willing to 'try' and create change. It MAY not get immediate results, BUT that doesn't mean they are wrong to try. Look at the media coverage this week, you could argue it's already had an effect....

Whatever your view, put it here. My only hope is the in fighting seen on twitter doesn't manifest itself into arguments at VP. We need to be united or at the very least, let those that want to protest do so and those that don't should be free to take their seats. Neither are better fans and both sets CARE just as much and want the same for Villa, CHANGE and improvement

I don't know if I'd have done it the way they have done it, but then I can't think of a way to do it that will be universally appealing. Getting everyone to boycott is a no-go. Doing things before and after the match (and even at half-time) arguably don't have the same affect.

Plus there will always be the people that don't see the point, and there will also certainly be the "fuck off and support Small Heath" brigade.

But overall, yes, I agree. I can absolutely see the point of those that disagree, but apathy is ruining this football club - and that includes the fans.

Good piece by Kendrick:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-comment-mat-kendrick-8464316

Unless you’ve been living in the concourses of the Holte End you may have heard by now that some Aston Villa fans have proposed a 'We Want Our Villa Back' demonstration at Villa Park today

To cut a long story short they’re fed up of their floundering football team and they’re inviting fans to let the powers-that-be know by taking action at the Premier League match against Liverpool.

For the first eight minutes - eight signifying the number of seasons Randy Lerner has completed at the club - some supporters will stay away from their seats in the Holte End and are suggesting fellow fans do the same.

Ideally, the desired effect for them is to show chairman Lerner, manager Paul Lambert and chief executive Tom Fox what the Holte will increasingly look like due to the current painful decline that has no apparent end.

Depending upon the number of protesters, it could also present a striking image to the outside world if Villa’s vast iconic stand is more sparsely populated during a high profile fixture being beamed around the globe.

The protest proposals have prompted a mixed reaction from Villa officials and supporters and outside commentators and rival fans - so here are my thoughts on the subject.

1) Atmosphere

Peculiarly, rather than killing the atmosphere, this afternoon’s planned activity could in actual fact have the opposite effect and boost it.

Chances are those supporters not supporting the protest will be even more determined not to let the claret and blue campaigners have a detrimental effect on their team and thus could have greater motivation to crank up the volume themselves and make extra noise on behalf of the eight-minute absentees.

Secondly, and this part of the ‘protest’ should not be overlooked, for 82 minutes (that’s more than 9/10s of the match) the protesters are imploring fans to get behind the team with more gusto than they have managed all season.

Not since the Get the Holte Back campaign for last season’s crucial win against Hull has there been such a rallying call to the Villa Park faithful to roar their team on unconditionally for the majority of the match, although Villa did score in the 1st rather than 9th minute of that one!

2) Harmful or helpful?

Paul Lambert, obviously, some pundits and many supporters believe the proposed action will put Villa at a disadvantage against Liverpool. It will hand the initiative to Brendan Rodgers' Reds and their fans, unsettle the Villa players and make it even harder to get a result, they say.

Let’s start by remembering that in the last Villa Park game, Christian Benteke scored the winner moments after fans started taunting the manager, although admittedly it was more likely a coincidence rather than a direct consequence of the chants.

There are fears that if Villa start slowly because of the uneasy situation in the stands then it could make things really difficult at a time when the claret and blues are already bereft of confidence. That is a very real concern.

However, as touched upon above, there is also the chance it could galvanise Villa, and create a siege mentality among the players and the non-protesters.

A club in Villa’s precarious position can’t afford to write off a single point and a fanbase as fun-starved as the claret and blue faithful can’t afford to jeopardise any chance of goals or glory.

But surely this protest is about more than one game?

If the eight-minute boycott impacts negatively upon the result and means Villa finish, say, 15th rather than 14th then I am sure the ringleaders will cope with that on their consciences. If Villa's fate is worse it will be because of the issues that sparked the protest, not the protest itself.

3) National exposure

Regardless of the take-up in the Holte End this afternoon, it could be argued that the organisers of We Want Our Villa Back protest have already achieved their aim with the publicity their plan has generated.

It has done far more to promote Villa's malaise than the meek and mild grumbles that have tended to greet disappointments in recent seasons.

This protest has made it onto the national agenda.

Sky Sports, BT Sports and TalkSport have given it extra attention while ‘Fleet Street’ has also woken up to the fact that all is not well in B6. It has been the lead item story on the sports pages of newspapers including the Times and Daily Express, while the Mirror’s Brian Reade devoted his column to it.

To get Villa a few paragraphs, let alone a back page splash, in the nationals nowadays is unheard of.

Of course everybody would rather Villa enjoy increased coverage because they are on the verge of achieving something. But even if this planned protest falls flat, at least the protesters have tried to make the club relevant again beyond the West Midlands boundaries. Again, whether the increased exposure actually achieves anything is debatable, but they shouldn’t be criticised for trying.

As for accusations that these protests bring 'embarrassment' to clubs...  have you looked at many of Villa's stats lately?

4) Fan fair, not warfare

There are different types of fan.

Reports of Villa fans fighting among themselves in the away ends at Burnley and Leicester might prove how many have reached breaking point, but it is not helpful and does not reflect well on anybody.

The claret and blue crowd all want the same thing for their team even if they don't all agree on the best way of going about it.

During the debate about the validity of this protest many of those against the idea have argued that the purpose of a supporter is surely to 'support' and they have vowed to positively back their team no matter what.

Those launching the protest would no doubt counter that giving absolute support to a regime you have lost faith in maintains the status quo and reduces the prospect of change.

There is a place for both views at Villa Park, side by side in the same burger queue or same section of seats.

Villa fans are desperately trying to stop themselves falling out of love with their club - falling out with each other is just ridiculous.

Enjoy the game, however much of it you see. 

Plenty of suggestions on Twitter that they're turning off all the concourse TV's.

National exposure and as I expected about 20 empty seats in the holte end

You all know I wasn't going to take part and why, I counted 11 empty seats from my seat in L4

No protest happened absolute farce, oh and by the way Lambert was as inept as ever and Lerner is laughing at us all!

YANKIE F*CKS

Not a farce as the talk of the protest has had an effect by getting the National press talking about AVFC Carcrash Ltd

Disappointing. Guess we'll get what we deserve.

it never had any official supporters groups behind it, was always going to fail and look silly in my opinion but I suppose it was a better idea than the bedsheets and crayola banners of past protests

The apathy around our club is quite concerning and could see us relegated. I'm disappointed more didn't join in (however individuals choice) given how many people I see moan and unhappy on Twitter daily, it's odd only a handful bothered. Are we to assume we'll just keep going irrespective? Whilst very loyal, also very naive. You could argue that Lerner knows this, hence the current situation.

Like Kimbo said, I don't know the answer to the right way, BUT I do k lw Apathy can't continue. 2 wins in 18 and Arsenal and Chelsea next. Could be sleepwalking into the bottom 3 in a few weeks. Seriously bad times at VP, yet many seem ignorant to just how bad it is.

I hope the group continue as it has put some spotlight in the press and maybe that is the way, a United press campaign to highlight the facts, the shortcomings etc etc!

I don't know......what i do know is being a villa fan is tedious right now.

I think the big message for me from yesterday's invisible protest, is that Forums do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the majority of fans. We discuss issues in such detail that we often convince ourselves that we know what is best for Villa from a fan's perspective, but we forget that the majority of Villa fans don't engage with social media, and have views that are shaped by their circle of friends and associates.

Yesterday's protest was an indication of that.

Spot on VB. Average crowds around 30,000, average number of posters on here and most other blogs can be counted in the 10s. And please believe me I'm not knocking this place as I enjoy it immensely, but those are the hard facts as demonstrated yesterday.

Well mine is a 90 minute protest - not been all season and not again until something is sorted. Got involved in the 1968 protests and the more recent VFC ones against Doug but this time can't be arsed as the owner ain't arsed

Thinman wrote:Disappointing. Guess we'll get what we deserve.

Better to have tried to do something than not do anything at all.

I'm with Denis, not going back until the pillock has been fired! Keeping my money mine!

To be honest I thought not many would stay outside for 8mins, weather is crap and apathy rules, it would make more sense to have an empty stadium or Holte End for the whole duration of the 90mins.

I agree with VB, 3 supporters websites who probably have a tight clique of 20members each tops plus occasional posters some of whom don't go to games etc does not make a successful protest. And as for the fans that moan on twitter I would say probably 3/4s of them haven't stepped foot inside VP for a number of seasons, most don't even have sky sports and sit their begging for stream links for the first 20min of a match. Its unfortunate, and disappointing but the internet has a way of making it seem like more people share any given view point than actually does. I think the infighting in the crowd at Leicester proves that there is still a large part of the Villa support that want Lambert exactly where he is

Certainly a couple of my aunt and uncles had no idea about the demonstration until I mentioned it on Wednesday night at a family get together. But then most of them are barely on the internet, so would have no idea. Which actually opens up a whole can of worms about football, and once people of a certain age are no longer attending games, what will the attendances be like. Football will kill itself eventually, I'm sure.

Good point Kimbo, I never really thought of that sort of scenario.

There were two old guys sat behind me at the Liverpool match who must have been regular forum users. All I heard for 90 minutes was "just watch, sideways, sideways, sideways .... Cleverly you're a twat!.... We couldn't score in a knocking shop .... Oh Liverpool have got the ball, that's a goal then ....sideways, sideways, lost the ball again Cleverly you twat .... hang on Cleverly was substituted .... Weimann you twat! .... I can't tell them apart in these glasses.

and so on .... I must say they were well informed with all the latest Forum debate.

TBF I often joke around saying sideways, sideways, backwards, back to Guzan. Even when Gil did it I called out that he's picked up Lambert's methods quickly. But not all match and not with any seriousness

Synopsis wrote:I agree with VB, 3 supporters websites who probably have a tight clique of 20members each tops plus occasional posters some of whom don't go to games etc does not make a successful protest. And as for the fans that moan on twitter I would say probably 3/4s of them haven't stepped foot inside VP for a number of seasons, most don't even have sky sports and sit their begging for stream links for the first 20min of a match. Its unfortunate, and disappointing but the internet has a way of making it seem like more people share any given view point than actually does. I think the infighting in the crowd at Leicester proves that there is still a large part of the Villa support that want Lambert exactly where he is

Spot on, a lot of people who are moaning on twitter aren't even season ticket holders!

I'm not a season ticket holder. I'm in the States and have never been to Villa Park. But yes I speak my mind on twitter and on message boards... positive and negative both! Mostly negative lately given our poor form and the fact that PL is seemingly immune to the sack.

UTV!

avfc85 wrote:

Synopsis wrote:I agree with VB, 3 supporters websites who probably have a tight clique of 20members each tops plus occasional posters some of whom don't go to games etc does not make a successful protest. And as for the fans that moan on twitter I would say probably 3/4s of them haven't stepped foot inside VP for a number of seasons, most don't even have sky sports and sit their begging for stream links for the first 20min of a match. Its unfortunate, and disappointing but the internet has a way of making it seem like more people share any given view point than actually does. I think the infighting in the crowd at Leicester proves that there is still a large part of the Villa support that want Lambert exactly where he is

Spot on, a lot of people who are moaning on twitter aren't even season ticket holders!

To be fair, I don't think you need a season ticket to have a moan (However I'm guessing your point is, many who go to the ground probably aren't on twitter and not the dull, if you don't go, you cant moan argument)

This would be my idea of a demonstration. Take Lambert at his word and cheer and shout from the rooftops (after all he's told us it helps and the reverse doesn't help) then I'd have several banners, directly aimed at him and the board (whilst still singing for the team) Maybe a bed sheet with "We're not strange, we just don't like you" another saying "Realism = attending VP and expecting to lose and not score" and another stating "We're trying our hardest, are you Randy, Paul?" Visual demos get far more attention than staying out and if it's only 30/40 people, the message will still be loud and clear, PLUS I think more would be on board if it didn't involve missing the game (because for some reason and we have to realise this and accept it, some fans will go regardless. Bottom line is I wouldn't stop now. Support the team, oppose the board and management.....