Promotion or Not?

I have come to the conclusion that I have really enjoyed this season, whatever the final outcome. This is down to the fact that after a number of years of being in the doldrums we have started to actually win a few matches. The highlights of this season so far being the wins over the dingles and the slum dwellers which were fantastic games both in entertainment and atmosphere.

However after a bit of soul searching I have come to the conclusion that I don’t want us to get promoted this year. Basically we just aren’t good enough, with no structure to build upon. The club is still not being run properly as we have a 14 million pound striker on holiday freely admitting that he is set up for life on the contract that Villa gave him. We have another striker permanently on the bench who cost 12 million. The reserves are not being utilised enough, even though it was said that we would use them this season.  We play with absolutely no passion or tempo (except for the local derbies at home) and so we can’t cope with teams that ‘want it more and it is their cup final’, a bit like Bolton today! If we went up, we would get massacred in a lot of games which is soul destroying and end up fighting relegation yet again and I really don’t want to go through that again. I want to go up when we have a good basis for survival and more, a bit like Wolves IF they keep their players.

I accept that if we don’t go up then the team will disintegrate, mainly due to FFP, hopefully along with the manager, but that could be the catalyst to get a forward thinking manager in and build something that is longer term.

Regarding the squad:
Johnstone – won’t be here if we are still in the championship, not good enough for the PL.
Elmo – okay for the championship, not good enough for the PL.
Terry – will go at end of season whatever.
Chester – okay for the championship, too slow for the PL.
Taylor – not good enough for anything, utter rubbish.
Jedinak - okay for the championship, too slow for the PL.
Whelan – not good enough for anything, probably another on a GOOD contract!
Bjarnason – think he would be okay in the PL but probably will be sold as he is a decent player.
Hourihane – disappointed me as apart from his occasional goal he does very little, okay for the championship, would have to step up for the PL.
Lansbury – really don’t know as haven’t seen much of him this season but definitely okay for the championship but not PL material.
Snodgrass – will leave to a more progressive club especially if we don’t make the PL.
Grealish – the one certain player who would make it in the PL but would he stay if we remain in the championship, hopefully so we can build a side around him.
Adomah – another who could make it in the PL, hopefully he will stay if we remain in the championship.
Grabban – will leave and join another club that has more money than us.
Hogan – needs to be sold if we keep Bruce as he has no future with the hoofball we currently play. Not PL quality anyway.
Onomah – back to Spurs, absolutely no loss.
Hutton – free transfer, shame as he at least shows some passion and links up with Adomah brilliantly.
Kodjia - another who could make it in the PL, hopefully he will stay if we remain in the championship especially if he makes a full recovery.
Gabby – bye bye, thanks for the memories!
Richards – another one who might as well be on holiday, notice that nobody ever speaks of him, bit like shit on the sole of your shoe. So we have got him doing nothing for another season and paying him loads!
Tuanzebe – Looks a good prospect, back to Man Ure whatever.

The bottom line is that if we stay in the championship, anybody with a half decent contract will be open for offers but if we go up we will struggle enormously but get some money!
Talking of money, that is one of the major reasons that I despise the PL, it stinks!

We can't afford not to be promoted, even if we went up and come straight back down, we'd be in a better position to build for the future, because of the additional money we'd get from a year in the Premier league, and then we'd get the parachute payments again.

Some say they want to stay in the Championship, because we win more games down here, well that might not be the case next season after FFP has performed it's dance on our state of play, any decent players will have to be sold, and there won't be the money to replace them, we'd be in danger of becoming another Leeds. Wednesday or Forest, i.e a big club stuck in this division for years to come, more likely to get relegated into league one as get promoted.

And I wouldn't be so sure that Bruce will leave if we fail to get promoted, reaching the play-offs might be enough for him to keep his job.

If we were to get promoted, we might struggle at first, but there's no reason why we couldn't build towards becoming a team that challenges just outside the top six, and maybe even better depending on other factors. I think people just remember our last few seasons in the Premier league when we were poorly run, and forget that for most of our time in that division, we were one of the more competitive sides.

I have said since last season that if we don't go up this season then we won't for years. It'll be a complete rebuilding job with no money. We will lose our best players and will become a midtable championship team for the next 5 years.

Financially we cannot compete if we don't go up this year. We will be another once big club stuck in the doldrums of 2 tier football. I'd rather we went up and came straight back down.

Agree with villa dan, we need to go up, even if we come straight back down its all about money. This international break helps most of the other teams in the race nice little rest ,some of our players are away on international duty . I just hope we can win as many games as possible UTV.

Even if you take away all the financial implications, I'd still rather Villa be in the top division, the idea of us spending a third season should be unacceptable, if similar happened to clubs like Everton, West Ham, Tottenham or Newcastle, there'd be an uproar their fans, so it beats me why we'd settle for such a failure, and not only that, but some welcome it.

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Even if you take away all the financial implications, I'd still rather Villa be in the top division, the idea of us spending a third season should be unacceptable, if similar happened to clubs like Everton, West Ham, Tottenham or Newcastle, there'd be an uproar their fans, so it beats me why we'd settle for such a failure, and not only that, but some welcome it.

Interesting how you view 'failure'.

Is failure not getting automatic promotion?
Is failure not getting promoted via the play offs?
Is failure not getting promoted at all?
Is failure getting promoted and getting relegated the next season (getting thumped multiple times during the season)?

An interesting quote we always had at work, 'Don't give me excuses, give me solutions'.
Hopefully the board has solutions for wherever we find ourselves at the end of May!

I know it's a bleedin' obvious thing to say but on the evidence of the winning streak & the Wolves result we're perfectly capable of going up, but we've seen plenty of reasons to show that we're just of capable of losing the next four games.

This season has taught me the art of letting go.

Dions_Bald_Head wrote:I know it's a bleedin' obvious thing to say but on the evidence of the winning streak & the Wolves result we're perfectly capable of going up, but we've seen plenty of reasons to show that we're just of capable of losing the next four games.

This season has taught me the art of letting go.    

Putting Helda costa and afobe on the bench virtually gave us the wolves match. They've started and scored for wolves since. Nuno had a total mare for that match

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Even if you take away all the financial implications, I'd still rather Villa be in the top division, the idea of us spending a third season should be unacceptable, if similar happened to clubs like Everton, West Ham, Tottenham or Newcastle, there'd be an uproar their fans, so it beats me why we'd settle for such a failure, and not only that, but some welcome it.

Would Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde or RDM got the managers jobs at those clubs ? - thats yere problem

I also think our overriding problem going forward is a lack of cash, and whilst we have some good youngsters and don't think many are 'that good'

If the cash isn't there I think we should told straight up - I know there is FFP, but as wolves have shown that can be gotten around.

I still think we can challenge next season. I wouldn't be sorry to see the back of Hogan and Sam Johnstone - Hogan hasn't scored enough goals, and misses a good quota of reasonable chances. And his ability on the ball is amongst the worst Ive seem from a villa striker.
Johnstone is ok unless the opposition start reigning shots on goal - He can't salvage us a point when the team is having a bad day (one exception being millwall at home) - Get upgrades on those two players and thats gotta be worth 7 or 8 extra points.

I see us making the playoffs - but not winning them.

Im open to moving Bruce on - But I really don't see who replaces him - Jovanic ? well we would all be in meltdown wouldn't we ? - but lets not forget fulham sit ahead of us on goal difference alone and will probably be in the play offs with us. Dean 'oh weve conceded another' Smith - don't even go there !

I don't think we will actually go up, in current form we can't beat Bolton or QPR, I've no idea how we're supposed to beat (an in-form) Wolves, Cardiff or Fulham (whoever doesn't make automatic promotion), let alone Middlesborough. Bruce looked like he bottled it against Bolton (4-2-4?!), it's as if he's found our best formation, sends out everyone to do their best and doesn't know what to do when it doesn't work.

I still rate Hourihane and Lansbury but for some reason the former isn't working in the 4-5-1 formation and the latter just doesn't seem to fit in anywhere. I'd still like to see them play together in the middle in something like a 4-4-1-1.

smetro wrote:

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Even if you take away all the financial implications, I'd still rather Villa be in the top division, the idea of us spending a third season should be unacceptable, if similar happened to clubs like Everton, West Ham, Tottenham or Newcastle, there'd be an uproar their fans, so it beats me why we'd settle for such a failure, and not only that, but some welcome it.

Would Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde or RDM got the managers jobs at those clubs ? - thats yere problem

I also think our overriding problem going forward is a lack of cash, and whilst we have some good youngsters and don't think many are 'that good'

If the cash isn't there I think we should told straight up - I know there is FFP, but as wolves have shown that can be gotten around.

I still think we can challenge next season. I wouldn't be sorry to see the back of Hogan and Sam Johnstone - Hogan hasn't scored enough goals, and misses a good quota of reasonable chances. And his ability on the ball is amongst the worst Ive seem from a villa striker.
Johnstone is ok unless the opposition start reigning shots on goal - He can't salvage us a point when the team is having a bad day (one exception being millwall at home) - Get upgrades on those two players and thats gotta be worth 7 or 8 extra points.

I see us making the playoffs - but not winning them.

Im open to moving Bruce on - But I really don't see who replaces him - Jovanic ? well we would all be in meltdown wouldn't we ? - but lets not forget fulham sit ahead of us on goal difference alone and will probably be in the play offs with us. Dean 'oh weve conceded another' Smith - don't even go there !

 

I'm not convinced that Bruce will be leaving in the summer as long as we finish top six, I think the reason will be given that if you're to face a tough season in the Championship under financial constraints then who would be a better man to guide us through such a time than someone as experienced in the Championship as Bruce, the word stability will probably be used as well. And the excuse for failure this season will be injuries. If he did leave, it would probably be more than likely be of his own accord, to take a break from the game, after the tough time he's had recently in his personal life.

As for Jokanović, we have no chance of him at this stage, he was recently being linked to the Chelsea job. Seen a few people mention Warnock, as he has apparently said that he doesn't like managing in the Premier league.

I'm not convinced the injuries excuse will hold water. We have a large squad of players, including one striker Bruce couldn't get to work (McCormack) and one bought during his tenure who he couldn't get to work (Hogan). Players like Onomah and Whelan started week after week despite being very obviously not right. The likes of Grealish, Adomah and Hourihane have almost fluked their way into the squad. All our strikers scored a grand total of four goals in the Championship in the first half of this season despite Kodjia not being injured for all of it. We finished 13th last season and I'm not really sure we've been better this season because of Bruce, with the exception of Snodgrass. This may be controversial but I'm not sure Terry has even been a better defender than Baker (we looked good in defence last season, this season not so much).

I suggested before that if we're keeping Bruce we need to bring in some very good tactical people who can work with manager, players and coaches throughout training, pre-match and the match itself. If they can see Hourihane (as an example from Bolton) isn't working they can advise Bruce to shift his position or be substituted. Maybe they could also be in charge of working out the best possible tactical outcomes and selecting the subs too.

There are presumably things Bruce is doing well but if we're keeping him these things need to be addressed or we're leaving it all to luck again. A bit like hoofball.

I am sure we won't get automatic promotion now.
As for playoffs i think we could make those but i have little confidence we could win them. They are a total lottery and things out of our control come into play like dodgy officials for example. So i'd say if we do make playoffs we'd have about a 25% chance of going up.

As for next season the one thing going for us is that we are Aston Villa. Surely the biggest pull in the Championship for players? That should mean we could still attract a few decent signings although we would have to sell to fund them which is the issue. We have a fair few players we should be able to get good fees for so i could see a few going like Hogan, Hutton, Lansbury etc and a few decent ones incoming which should see us capable of challenging again next season if as expected we fail this time around.

Not Lansbury please, I think he could be a key player for us*. Not with Bruce in charge though. If Bruce stays we need to sell Lansbury and Hogan (along with all the others).

I sincerely hope our scouts have been lining up permanent replacements for Nathan Baker.

*in the Championship. If we get promoted no chance.

achilles wrote:I have come to the conclusion that I have really enjoyed this season, whatever the final outcome. This is down to the fact that after a number of years of being in the doldrums we have started to actually win a few matches. The highlights of this season so far being the wins over the dingles and the slum dwellers which were fantastic games both in entertainment and atmosphere.

However after a bit of soul searching I have come to the conclusion that I don’t want us to get promoted this year. Basically we just aren’t good enough, with no structure to build upon. The club is still not being run properly as we have a 14 million pound striker on holiday freely admitting that he is set up for life on the contract that Villa gave him. We have another striker permanently on the bench who cost 12 million. The reserves are not being utilised enough, even though it was said that we would use them this season.  We play with absolutely no passion or tempo (except for the local derbies at home) and so we can’t cope with teams that ‘want it more and it is their cup final’, a bit like Bolton today! If we went up, we would get massacred in a lot of games which is soul destroying and end up fighting relegation yet again and I really don’t want to go through that again. I want to go up when we have a good basis for survival and more, a bit like Wolves IF they keep their players.

I accept that if we don’t go up then the team will disintegrate, mainly due to FFP, hopefully along with the manager, but that could be the catalyst to get a forward thinking manager in and build something that is longer term.

Regarding the squad:
Johnstone – won’t be here if we are still in the championship, not good enough for the PL.
Elmo – okay for the championship, not good enough for the PL.
Terry – will go at end of season whatever.
Chester – okay for the championship, too slow for the PL.
Taylor – not good enough for anything, utter rubbish.
Jedinak - okay for the championship, too slow for the PL.
Whelan – not good enough for anything, probably another on a GOOD contract!
Bjarnason – think he would be okay in the PL but probably will be sold as he is a decent player.
Hourihane – disappointed me as apart from his occasional goal he does very little, okay for the championship, would have to step up for the PL.
Lansbury – really don’t know as haven’t seen much of him this season but definitely okay for the championship but not PL material.
Snodgrass – will leave to a more progressive club especially if we don’t make the PL.
Grealish – the one certain player who would make it in the PL but would he stay if we remain in the championship, hopefully so we can build a side around him.
Adomah – another who could make it in the PL, hopefully he will stay if we remain in the championship.
Grabban – will leave and join another club that has more money than us.
Hogan – needs to be sold if we keep Bruce as he has no future with the hoofball we currently play. Not PL quality anyway.
Onomah – back to Spurs, absolutely no loss.
Hutton – free transfer, shame as he at least shows some passion and links up with Adomah brilliantly.
Kodjia - another who could make it in the PL, hopefully he will stay if we remain in the championship especially if he makes a full recovery.
Gabby – bye bye, thanks for the memories!
Richards – another one who might as well be on holiday, notice that nobody ever speaks of him, bit like shit on the sole of your shoe. So we have got him doing nothing for another season and paying him loads!
Tuanzebe – Looks a good prospect, back to Man Ure whatever.

The bottom line is that if we stay in the championship, anybody with a half decent contract will be open for offers but if we go up we will struggle enormously but get some money!
Talking of money, that is one of the major reasons that I despise the PL, it stinks!

I don't know about John Terry not being here whatever, there's a possibility he could be our next manager if we don't go up.

avfcnigel wrote:

achilles wrote:I have come to the conclusion that I have really enjoyed this season, whatever the final outcome. This is down to the fact that after a number of years of being in the doldrums we have started to actually win a few matches. The highlights of this season so far being the wins over the dingles and the slum dwellers which were fantastic games both in entertainment and atmosphere.

However after a bit of soul searching I have come to the conclusion that I don’t want us to get promoted this year. Basically we just aren’t good enough, with no structure to build upon. The club is still not being run properly as we have a 14 million pound striker on holiday freely admitting that he is set up for life on the contract that Villa gave him. We have another striker permanently on the bench who cost 12 million. The reserves are not being utilised enough, even though it was said that we would use them this season.  We play with absolutely no passion or tempo (except for the local derbies at home) and so we can’t cope with teams that ‘want it more and it is their cup final’, a bit like Bolton today! If we went up, we would get massacred in a lot of games which is soul destroying and end up fighting relegation yet again and I really don’t want to go through that again. I want to go up when we have a good basis for survival and more, a bit like Wolves IF they keep their players.

I accept that if we don’t go up then the team will disintegrate, mainly due to FFP, hopefully along with the manager, but that could be the catalyst to get a forward thinking manager in and build something that is longer term.

Regarding the squad:
Johnstone – won’t be here if we are still in the championship, not good enough for the PL.
Elmo – okay for the championship, not good enough for the PL.
Terry – will go at end of season whatever.
Chester – okay for the championship, too slow for the PL.
Taylor – not good enough for anything, utter rubbish.
Jedinak - okay for the championship, too slow for the PL.
Whelan – not good enough for anything, probably another on a GOOD contract!
Bjarnason – think he would be okay in the PL but probably will be sold as he is a decent player.
Hourihane – disappointed me as apart from his occasional goal he does very little, okay for the championship, would have to step up for the PL.
Lansbury – really don’t know as haven’t seen much of him this season but definitely okay for the championship but not PL material.
Snodgrass – will leave to a more progressive club especially if we don’t make the PL.
Grealish – the one certain player who would make it in the PL but would he stay if we remain in the championship, hopefully so we can build a side around him.
Adomah – another who could make it in the PL, hopefully he will stay if we remain in the championship.
Grabban – will leave and join another club that has more money than us.
Hogan – needs to be sold if we keep Bruce as he has no future with the hoofball we currently play. Not PL quality anyway.
Onomah – back to Spurs, absolutely no loss.
Hutton – free transfer, shame as he at least shows some passion and links up with Adomah brilliantly.
Kodjia - another who could make it in the PL, hopefully he will stay if we remain in the championship especially if he makes a full recovery.
Gabby – bye bye, thanks for the memories!
Richards – another one who might as well be on holiday, notice that nobody ever speaks of him, bit like shit on the sole of your shoe. So we have got him doing nothing for another season and paying him loads!
Tuanzebe – Looks a good prospect, back to Man Ure whatever.

The bottom line is that if we stay in the championship, anybody with a half decent contract will be open for offers but if we go up we will struggle enormously but get some money!
Talking of money, that is one of the major reasons that I despise the PL, it stinks!

I don't know about John Terry not being here whatever, there's a possibility he could be our next manager if we don't go up.

I don't think he has the coaching badges to manager yet?

Terry's been working on his coaching badges this season. That was one of the reasons for him coming here, us allowing him to take them; I think as long you're working towards them then you're allowed to take on managerial or coaching roles.

If he was to become our manager, then I'd imagine he'd have to take a significant pay-cut, as the only chance he'd have of getting the job is if we fail to get promoted.