Moving forward - what tactics short term?

Get Kozak up top with one of Gabby/Ayew/Sinclair/Grealish around him and get width from Adama and one of Grealish/Gil/Sinclair.

Get Gana and Gardner in midfield to keep it solid and if we need to sacrifice somebody later in the game when we're trailing then we can.

villajk wrote:Been watching the site for a while this is my first time posting (its a great site) I agree with most of the above but Grealish has to play and a fit Gardner would offer more in midfield ,I think people have forgotten him ,unlike Westwood he can head, tackle, past forward and takes a great free kick imo

Didn't you used to post on another forum - Heroes ans VillAins?

No Heroes and Villains ,But I did post on villa banter ,dose this affect my credibility

villajk wrote:No Heroes and Villains ,But I did post on villa banter ,dose this affect my credibility

No it dose'nt. Just asking as the name is unusual.

FoxyAV wrote:

Trotters wrote:Those front three are pretty interchangeable and We have Grealish as a sub or a replacement if the others aren't performing. Gabby can replace Sinclair when he tires, Gil can come wide to replace Traore, etc. Its all quite fluid.

We don't agree on choice of players but what we absolutely agree on is using players and subs intelligently!

If Sherwood learns from his mistakes and doesn't repeat them I think we'll be ok. If he adopts the head in sand mentality that saw Lambert stick religously to the same formation and players (and the substitution on exactly 60 minutes) we'll need a new manager before we've been bottom of the table too long to make a difference.

It wasn't easy leaving Grealish out as he's going to be an absolute star. But I also think we need to remember that he's young and, whilst is playing exceedingly well, it won't hurt him to not play every single minute.

Gardner is a good call. Whilst I've seen very little from him on a first team level that leads me to think he's anything special, his junior form and loan performances say otherwise. Problem is, he's made of glass. But once he's close to being match fit, I'd certainly throw him in in place of Westwood.

We've options (a lot of them) at the back and midfield - both players and formation. It's just up top. I think we need to have a long hard look at doing what Germany have often done and play without a recognised striker.

I think it's pretty obvious that our best 11 atm. would be a 433.

Keeper (should probably put Guzan here, but I think he's shit, so I refuse to do so)

Hutton - Richards - Clark - Amavi

Gueye - Westwood - Veretout

Gil - Sinclair - Grealish

By playing this tactic and fielding these players, we are sure the hoof ball bullshit stops. Keep the football on the ground and play like a modern team.

One of the problems with 442 is the fact that neither Grealish or Gil are tracking back enough. By packing the midfield with 3 players it brings balance and better defensive cover.

Let Sanchez, Traore, Gabby and Lescott be subs.

I guess Kozak could deserve a go instead of Sinclair though.

Westwood over Sanchez? Are you sure?

Westwood cannot tackle, cannot win a header, cannot play a forward pass, cannot take a corner, cannot take a free kick and cannot shoot.......some player he is!

Each to their own. I think Westwood keeps us ticking a hell of a lot better than Sanchez. Sanchez has so many individual errors each game it's starting to piss me off. It's a problem as well, cause Sanchez keeps losing possession in the most dangerous areas. Every time he does it we invite pressure back on to us.

I would've had Westwood banned from free kicks for life though, I'll give you that.

villajk wrote:Been watching the site for a while this is my first time posting (its a great site) I agree with most of the above but Grealish has to play and a fit Gardner would offer more in midfield ,I think people have forgotten him ,unlike Westwood he can head, tackle, past forward and takes a great free kick imo

Totally disagree with this (politely of course :) )

Grealish does not pose enough of a threat to be our '10'...he has a role to play tin the squad of course...but we should be looking at building a team around Gil, he is a wonderful player. We don't tend to see players of his ability at Villa Park...perhaps that's why so many fans see Grealish as better?..I dunno.

Just look at the way way Gil receives the ball...he is always on the half turn, then running at the opposition. Nobody else (apart from Adama) does that in this Villa side.

Grealish slows down attacks and can be very ponderous at times. He does have an eye for a pass however. There will be games where he is very effective for us, and games (like Saturdaay) where he is totally ineffective.

Joppe84 wrote:Each to their own. I think Westwood keeps us ticking a hell of a lot better than Sanchez. Sanchez has so many individual errors each game it's starting to piss me off. It's a problem as well, cause Sanchez keeps losing possession in the most dangerous areas. Every time he does it we invite pressure back on to us.

he does get caught in possession I agree. This is generally a combination of him not wanting to lose possession (strangely) and literally having no options....sometimes he has to just get rid when in a danger area...he can ask the question when we are 60 yards up the pitch!

Joppe84 wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that our best 11 atm. would be a 433.

Keeper (should probably put Guzan here, but I think he's shit, so I refuse to do so)

Hutton - Richards - Clark - Amavi

Gueye - Westwood - Veretout

Gil - Sinclair - Grealish

By playing this tactic and fielding these players, we are sure the hoof ball bullshit stops. Keep the football on the ground and play like a modern team.

One of the problems with 442 is the fact that neither Grealish or Gil are tracking back enough. By packing the midfield with 3 players it brings balance and better defensive cover.

Let Sanchez, Traore, Gabby and Lescott be subs.

I guess Kozak could deserve a go instead of Sinclair though.

I don't agreee with Shancez being taken out.

Westy isn't good enough to start in the current squad, shanchez is working very hard in the middle cause westy is getting bullied. gana is massive for us already.

With the news that Gana is seeing a specialist in France fir his hamstring that he did again on Friday we are looking at more of what we saw in the last two games. Not good.

Bunn

Illori Richards Lescott

Sanchez Vertout

Traori Westwood (Gueye when fit) Grealish

Gil

Kozak
Balance and width. Simples!

big ming wrote:                                                                        Bunn

                                          Illori                     Richards                Lescott

                                                      Sanchez                  Vertout

                         Traori                    Westwood  (Gueye when fit)                           Grealish    

                                                                        Gil

                                                                    Kozak      
Balance and width. Simples!          

No where near enough defensive cover and that'd leave out Amavi who is one of our best players atm

Villa_Dan wrote:

big ming wrote:                                                                        Bunn

                                          Illori                     Richards                Lescott

                                                      Sanchez                  Vertout

                         Traori                    Westwood  (Gueye when fit)                           Grealish    

                                                                        Gil

                                                                    Kozak      
Balance and width. Simples!          

No where near enough defensive cover and that'd leave out Amavi who is one of our best players atm

I agree. Amavi has to start. I believe Ilori is left-sided too. We'd be better off playing Clark on the left and Okore in the middle, with Richards on the right.

Amavi should be the first name on the sheet, i would play clarke cdm an take westy out tonight.

Or clarke at the back with lescott an push richards into cdm.

I really don't understand why people insist on all these championship manager tactics. The only thing missing from that stuff above is arrows.

Ayew, Veretout, Grealish and Gil, and argueably Amavi and Westwood are all suited for 433. Can't we just stick to 433 and let the guys get used to one type of tactic.

I swear, as I'm the only one going on about this, there must be something I'm missing. Cause to me it's too obvious.

I'd say that 3-5-2 might be our best option.
                                      Guzan
                     Richards     Lescott       Clark
   Bacuna                                                         Amavi
                            Westwood     Gueye
                                      Gil
                            Sinclair   Ayew

That's right, no starting place for Grealish, Gabby, or Sanchez. Gil for me looks the most likely to find a pass into front players, and those front players need movement and nous to make themselves available, so we have to give Ayew a chance to prove himself over a few games. Sanchez blows hot and cold during any given game, does something really well and then is capable of putting the team under pressure with terrible passes in deep positions. Grealish for me might be getting too much media attention too soon, he certainly hasn't earned it yet and his performances thus far are not warranting a starting place. Maybe he just needs to get fitter?

For me, Lescott hasn't got the legs in him to play in a back 3. Ilori-Richards-Okore/Clark if we are playing 3-5-2.

If we ever go with 3 at the back then one of the 2 up top has to be some kind of target man. We need to be able to hit a forward player (long or short) that can hold the ball up and bring the midfield and wide players into the game...and one that can get on the end of balls into the box.
Totally pointless having Sinclair and Ayew as a front 2 as they are both very similar types.
For me it has to be Kozak, as Gestede is a donkey.

This would be my interpretation of a 3-5-2 tonight. We won't play that way though I'm sure.

                             Hutton        Richards       Clark

                                            Sanchez
Bacuna                                                                            Amavi
                                Veretout              Gil

                                       Sinclair
                                                 Kozak


4-1-4-1 is the way I would go tonight (it's too big a game for Ilori to make his first start, and too many games in a short space of time for Lescott in my view), so:

                       Bunn

Hutton      Richards    Clark     Amavi

                    Sanchez

Sinclair      Grealish    Gil      Gabby

                      Kozak

In no way should we play 2 deep lying midfielders at home. Get on the bloody front foot and give Blues something to think about. Westwood is a mule, and should be left out. His performances this season have been appalling.
If Kozak doesn't do the business, chuck Ayew up there in his best position, and presumably the position he was playing in when we scouted him!!

On paper that team should be solid enough and contain enough flair to beat most teams at home. They just have to show some bollox and get out there and prove it!!

At the moment we have seven positions that are fine, with the key players in bold:

                        Guzan
 Hutton - Richards - ????? - Amavi
Veretout - Westwood - Gueye
                   ????? - ????? - Grealish
                             
By fine I mean they're solid and know what they're doing. Yes, Westwood.

Hutton's there until we find someone better.

Lescott looks wooden. Get Clark back in. Richards can't do it all on his own.

I like Veretout and of all the new players not hitting the deck running (er, him and Ayew!) he's the one who will improve. Stick him on the right in a 4-3-3.
 
I'd rather see Traore start on the right of a 4-3-3.

Sanchez is our defensive midfield sub. Gil, Gabby, Sinclair as attacking midfield subs. Start with Gestede but strongly consider Ayew. And sort out Kozak.

For a 4-2-3-1 I'd have the front four as:

Traore - Gil - Grealish
   Gestede or Ayew

Although defensively that line up is appalling!

We went close against Liverpool but need to settle down very quickly and play our most solid back seven, with our most effective front three. If that means Gestede starting as a rather blunt tool then so be it. I hope Ayew comes good so start him in cup games and build the team around how he likes to play. Frankly we can't afford to try out stuff in the PL until we have some more points and we can't afford to do a Portsmouth or Blues and concentrate on a cup run while going down.

Could possible give Ayew a few matches as an inside forward on the right. Gestede is there, and let Gil and Traore be super subs.

Or

Guzan
Hutton - Richards - Clark - Amavi
Veretout - Westwood - Gueye
Ayew - Gestede - Grealish

Bacuna, Gil and Traore should come into it. Lescott isn't a bad player, but he doesn't fit with Richards. There's a reason the first thing you learn about CB partnerships is that you need one covering and one intercepting. While Richards has a tendency to run with the ball, is a bit quicker and play a bit more cultured, the other CB should be no-nonsense, and that ladies that's Clark in a nutshell. This is once again basic management, and I can't for my life understand how TS and Wilkins can't see this.

Joppe84 wrote:Could possible give Ayew a few matches as an inside forward on the right. Gestede is there, and let Gil and Traore be super subs

But doesn't Ayew prefer to play in the middle? Weimann was a central striker who was next to useless on the right. Traore plays on the right, can knock a good ball in and isn't afraid to attack the goal (if only Jack would stop pausing when he gets to the box!).

I'd really like to see Ayew given some time, he looks like he would work really well with Traore, Gil and Grealish, but we don't have the luxury anymore, Sherwood wasted his period of grace at the start of this season by starting Gabby every bloody match. We need confidence and points and getting crosses into Gestede is the best short term tactic.

I think Kozak makes intelligent runs and would get more out of the aforementioned Traore, Gil and Grealish, but he's called Sherwood names, or nicked his cornflakes, or his mum won't let him come out to play.

Sure, play players out of position when we have lots of injuries, but when we have perfectly good players not being played in favour of someone who isn't going to do it properly, a) it knocks the confidence of the player(s) being sidelined, b) that position isn't being played properly and c) whoever is in that position isn't available for their correct position. Veretout? No, Westwood or Sinclair.

I just had a nasty thought, Clark played DM in the first half of the Blues match. I suggested Okore could play there but I wasn't being serious. As the middle of three at the back, Okore would work well and could push forward through the middle but please let's not mess around anymore.

I have no idea, but we gotta put him where we need him. Ayew could be exactly what we need in attack, someone to run the channels next to Gestede while Grealish is creating next to them.

While he is incredibly raw, he at least runs around and is willing to have a go. He's still the summer signing I'm probably most excited about. I see him a bit like Wiltord was for Arsenal tbh.