HAS XIA SOLD US A BUNCH OF BROKEN DREAMS?!!

"Sixty-thousand seater stadium", "theme-park close to the ground", "gonna be one of the best teams in Europe within five years", "we can be the most popular English club in China", "we're gonna buy clubs abroad to be our feeder clubs". Etc etc etc. So much lofty ambitions but yet they are scared to sack this garbage manager who finished 13th last season after we spent 80m and has only won two of the last thirteen games? I mean we could go on and on with the stats...four away wins in over twenty attempts, 34 points in 29 games in 2017 etc!!!....but still, the man who claimed we would be "up there with Madrid one day", is too scared to sack this manager or is easily manipulated by the people he's employed.

This situation should open our eyes to the bigger picture. Bruce is a massive problem and I can't wait to see the door that he's kicked out the door. BUT, it also highlights what a load of crap our owner has been telling us. What is so different between Lerner and Xia? Xia talks, Randy didn't, that's it. Xia has spent money yes, but so did Randy when he first arrived. They both don't give a sh/t about running the club themselves and live/lived abroad. So they leave the club in the hands of others and sadly those people have contributed to the sh/t show we see today. Faulker, Fox, Paddy Riley, Almstadt to Wyness and Round. WHAT HAS CHANGED EXACTLY? Nothing has changed at all has it? We still have no identity, we still throw money down the drain, we still see lesser clubs pass us by due to them having a better recruitment team and a philosophy their players can understand, and we still can't appoint a decent manager.

I've spoken directly to someone close to Xia and virtually begged them to consider bringing in Nicola Cortese (who was on talksport just yesterday saying he's keen to get back into the game) who has experience of transforming a club for the better, and I've also recommended two of Brentford's technical directors who are gems that none of the bigger clubs have snatched yet, as I feel having more people with football knowledge around VP would help us to finally make better decisions. If they really are serious about their so called "ambitions" then they would take that advice and run with it, but as every day passes with this Bruce situation, I can't help but wonder if we've been sold a bunch of broken dreams again just like we were under Randy.

I haven't read the post just the title.
My opinion is NO. just have a little faith

Boldfinger wrote:I haven't read the post just the title.
My opinion is NO. just have a little faith

Why bother replying if you didn't read the post? Seems silly to me.

I think the saying is "Rome wasn't built in a day".

It's a difficult one really as we just do not know whether or not Bruce is a dead man walking. The decision could have already been made and things in motion right now. I agree that it feels like nothing is happening and of course that leads us to feel a little perplexed about what the initial statement of ambition was compared to the reality of what we are all currently experiencing.
Do I think that if we get the right manager, see an upturn in our fortunes, get promoted and consolidate in the prem that Xia could still be the man? Yes I do.
But here's the thing. Coming out with some of the statements that were made when he took over were at worst dreamland stuff that made us a bit of a laughing stock, and at best naive. Even if there were concrete plans and virtually unlimited cash to bankroll our future, huge ground, theme parks and Champions league giants is something that should have remained a behind-closed-doors mission statement. Us Villans would have been more than satisfied to hear that we needed to be a progressive club playing attractive football that got us promoted in 2-3 years and then look at stage 2. I'd have taken their hand off for just that stance alone.
So do I think we were sold broken dreams? No, but I think there was a lot of over excited bullshit uttered at the time that we forgave uncle Tony for as he was a breath of fresh air. I think that fresh air will soon seem stale if action isn't taken soon as we are definitely in the Doldrums at present.

Fpuppys wrote:I think the saying is "Rome wasn't built in a day".

Thank you kind sir

I almost started a topic based on a tweet I sent to Dr T's recent one about getting behind the team. Yes I'll always get behind the team but I asked him to lay off the exciting plans & visions while we're not seeing any progression on the pitch. When we've clearly turned a corner in the performances I'll allow myself to think about the future - not while we're stuck in this groundhog day.

I have tweeted the good DR asking him to ask Bruce why we play one up front at home. Is being afraid of the opposition all we have to look forward to.
I wait a reply.

To answer the question, No I don't believe we have been sold false dreams. I do believe that the good Dr had every intention of doing what he said BUT I'm not so sure that he was being realistic. The world is not full of muppets waiting to lie down to let one man get to the top of the football pile in 5 years! There has been unrealistic expectations - from the owner and the fans.

Someone in football - that famous phrase - tells me that SB was intended to settle the ship BUT that it hasn't worked because the Championship has moved on. This person is not connected to the club. His view, for what its worth, is that the club are probably looking at options now. In all likelihood themanagement team and probably seriously worried about the current position and solving the problem. I have never run a football club but I'm sure it is not just as simple as sacking one and bringing in another, especially when up against FFP limits.

No-one can be happy but only supporters can demand change one week and then subside the next when a win comes along. For the board any changes and their consequences stick around for a while. Last night was a disaster and I too would love to see the back of SB. But no doubt there are other considerations. Patience may be the order of the day.

I think he's well intentioned, but so far his time has been a disaster really, and to be frank it doesn't look like getting any better any time soon, sticking with Bruce is absolutely mind boggling.

Big problem with xia is that i have never been convinced he has the millions he would make us believe
With regards to Bruce i beleive the delay is due to the lack of a feasible replacement. I think he would be out the door within 24 hours if an exceptional yet feasible manager became available

smetro wrote:Big problem with xia is that i have never been convinced he has the millions he would make us believe
With regards to Bruce  i beleive the delay is due to the lack of a feasible replacement. I think he would be out the door within 24 hours if an exceptional yet feasible manager became available

If they can't see the likes of Karanka, Seedorf, Pardew as a "feasible replacement", then we are in more trouble than I thought. anyway as for other folks thoughts. The fact is when you look under the hood of this particular car, one could say that Xia has only spent the first parachute payment, and then used the "FFP" excuse in order to not invest any of his own money this summer? I mean the whole thing just stinks tbh. How can you be aiming for "the champions league", but yet tolerate such mediocrity for so long? It just doesn't add up at all. The so called "board" is made up of Wyness, Little and Round. Does that sound like a top class team to you? Leeds just got sold and immediately they've got ex Madrid Director and an ex Zenit director on their board. That's what you call ambition. Wyness and Round just seem utterly cheap in comparison.

Thus far his reign hasn't been much different to Randy's, the only difference is Randy was operating in a much tougher league and at least had three decent years and some cup finals too. Xia and his team just aren't cutting it at the moment and the sad thing is they haven't learned anything from last season at all.

AstonThriller wrote:

smetro wrote:Big problem with xia is that i have never been convinced he has the millions he would make us believe
With regards to Bruce  i beleive the delay is due to the lack of a feasible replacement. I think he would be out the door within 24 hours if an exceptional yet feasible manager became available

If they can't see the likes of Karanka, Seedorf, Pardew as a "feasible replacement", then we are in more trouble than I thought. anyway as for other folks thoughts. The fact is when you look under the hood of this particular car, one could say that Xia has only spent the first parachute payment, and then used the "FFP" excuse in order to not invest any of his own money this summer? I mean the whole thing just stinks tbh. How can you be aiming for "the champions league", but yet tolerate such mediocrity for so long? It just doesn't add up at all. The so called "board" is made up of Wyness, Little and Round. Does that sound like a top class team to you? Leeds just got sold and immediately they've got ex Madrid Director and an ex Zenit director on their board. That's what you call ambition. Wyness and Round just seem utterly cheap in comparison.

Thus far his reign hasn't been much different to Randy's, the only difference is Randy was operating in a much tougher league and at least had three decent years and some cup finals too. Xia and his team just aren't cutting it at the moment and the sad thing is they haven't learned anything from last season at all.  

But thats your opinion of who would make a good manager. For a whole host of reasons it might not be the opinion of wyness etc.

Agree though its not looking promising for Xia. I have always had the feeling that we wake up one morning and he is gone or has put the club up for sale. I can't back that up with anything other than a feeling. I do find some peoples opinion of XIA as some sort of cash laden, Chinese government backed gold mine somewhat incredible ! - I think we still don't know much about him and some people have just filled in the gaps.

smetro wrote:

But thats your opinion of who would make a good manager. For a whole host of reasons it might not be the opinion of wyness etc.

And that's why I'd be inclined to question Wyness and Round. Two managerial appointments thus far and two total failures.

TBF to Xia I think he came in with big ideas and got carried away with his rhetoric and dug himself into a hole with the bold claims he made? I think he was told/thought that getting out the league was easy with a bit of money spent? He spent mega money for the Championship and brought in a high profile manager which failed. He acted quickly and brought in what on paper looked liked a proven manager and that has failed. He is now facing another dilemma because the 2 guys he trusted to control things are probably telling him to hold on, wait till Jedi and Kodj are back, wait till our luck changes or whatever bullshit excuse they come up with? But they are protecting their mate!

He has spent Prem money on 3 strikers only one of which can score? He has signed Prem veterans and only one has been a reasonable success? We have a talented crop of youngsters and only one plays regularly currently. We play defensively at home, we play defensively away?

Xia has maybe now realized that this football club ownership is not as easy as it looks?

DelboyVilla wrote:TBF to Xia I think he came in with big ideas and got carried away with his rhetoric and dug himself into a hole with the bold claims he made? I think he was told/thought that getting out the league was easy with a bit of money spent? He spent mega money for the Championship and brought in a high profile manager which failed. He acted quickly and brought in what on paper looked liked a proven manager and that has failed. He is now facing another dilemma because the 2 guys he trusted to control things are probably telling him to hold on, wait till Jedi and Kodj are back, wait till our luck changes or whatever bullshit excuse they come up with? But they are protecting their mate!

He has spent Prem money on 3 strikers only one of which can score? He has signed Prem veterans and only one has been a reasonable success? We have a talented crop of youngsters and only one plays regularly currently. We play defensively at home, we play defensively away?

Xia has maybe now realized that this football club ownership is not as easy as it looks?

Yes, some of the things he's done have been impressive. But like I said previously one could argue that all he's done is spent the tv money!!!...and now he's hiding behind "ffp". But whatever the case, my thoughts are that you can't claim that you have those big ambitions for the club, then turn around and tolerate this rubbish week after week from Bruce. It just doesn't add up does it? IF we really have been big ambitions, and aim to set high standards, how can you put up with this IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP? I mean Bruce has been here for forty odd games and during that time I don't recall us being in the top six ONCE!!!..How can this be acceptable to Xia if he really does intent to take us forward?

AstonThriller wrote:

smetro wrote:

But thats your opinion of who would make a good manager. For a whole host of reasons it might not be the opinion of wyness etc.

And that's why I'd be inclined to question Wyness and Round. Two appoints thus far and two total failures.

I think it's common knowledge that the appointment of RDM was directly attributed to Xia, it's the man he wanted. He has since left the football side of things to Wyness and Round to implement. Thus far it's not looking great under Bruce, I had my reservations with the appointment of Bruce but never did I think it would be quite as poor as things currently are.
I think anyone who swallowed Xia's words about champions league within 5 years etc must be borderline psychotic, I'm sure if Xia could go back in time he'd un-say those silly statements. We had a big enough target on our backs being Aston Villa and coming into the championship from the Premier League, we didn't need to give every other club any more incentive to shut up the arrogant "big boys".
What you can't do is dismiss FFP, it's there and it carries real penalties. Any reasonable owner couldn't, and shouldn't, have gambled everything on promotion this season only to come up short and leave a transfer embargo or points deductions hanging over the club. Besides, Villa don't need any more players............we have the squad that I think most people believe should cruise to promotion. The problem we seem to have is that the manager and coaches can't get a tune out of the players at all, never really has done in the near year that they've been here. I agree with smetro that if there was a viable and stand out candidate that was available then Xia would probably have acted by now. He still might in the coming weeks. As it stands we have a manager who has just signed Snodgrass and Terry on big wages, two players who have openly stated that they signed because it was Steve Bruce as manager and they were here because of him. The more I think about this the more it would seem certain that we will have potato head around for a while longer.

I increasingly think after the last 10 years of managers (various of safe hands, young and up-and-coming and untried but possibly exciting) RDM and Bruce were a return to safe hands plus proven experience. Players bought by whoever is buying them (aside from young talent at a good price) have either come with very good stats and Championship experience - see Hourihane, Hogan, McCormack, Chester, Adomah and Lansbury - or they've been solid players in the Premier League - see Jedi, Elphick, Whelan, Terry. Then there are the players clearly bought by Bruce in Snodgrass and Elmo. It's fine buying in the best talent but I'm not sure they can be expected to excel in a different team, with different players around them (especially when they all change every week) and particularly when asked to play out of position. Out of the players I've mentioned above only really Chester has done well, albeit last season when he was comfortable with Baker next to him and Jedi in front. Hourihane's only just been allowed to show what he can do and is one of our best players and Snodgrass hasn't yet had a chance. The old hands haven't added anything and are at best going to help us out of the Championship, although that's not happening.

It feels like Xia has come in with all the money (like Lerner did) and tried to buy the league, when what we really needed was to rebuild carefully with the right manager. Southampton and Wolves did it by dropping a league, although it will be interesting to see how Wolves do. RDM wasn't a bad call at all and perhaps compared to what Bruce has done to us we'd have been happier sticking with him.

I suppose we'll find out Xia's intentions and financial clout in the next year or so. Still a long way to go this season and it's not written off yet but for all the missed chances and nearly won matches Bruce isn't giving us and Xia anything but excuses.

He came in with enthusiasm and great ideas but was foolishly believing throwing money at it would solve the problems at the club.

I don't think he's sold us lies or broken dreams. I think he was just naive about the game.

That said, I have already stated that he will start stretching his good will with the fans if this shitshow goes on too long

Xia's put the wrong people in charge of the club, that's where he's gone wrong, at the moment the perception of him seems to be slowly changing amongst Villa fans; he might be well intentioned and have the resources and contacts to back up his hopes for the club, but that's all for nothing if he constantly makes the wrong decisions, and backs the wrong people.

It's hard to stick up for anyone at the club at the moment though, with what they're allowing to happen, when things go wrong all they seem to do is tweet an angry face on twitter and that's it. I think Wyness's recent interview on the official site was just a PR excercise, I mean I'm sure the contents of it was genuine, but it was all stuff we've heard before, and there wasn't really a need to repeat it, seemed a bit random.

Well maybe Xia has realized that the problem is more than just the manager and he has to make more than just one change of personal at the club? That could take a lot of time the implement?

I don't think Wyness or Round will be leaving the club anytime soon.

deadbuzzardalive wrote:I don't think Wyness or Round will be leaving the club anytime soon.

I wouldn't bet on it tbh. The buck has to stop somewhere and both of them are as much to blame for the situation we find ourselves in as the manager. If there is no promotion this season how could they possibly survive?

Wyness was only talking recently about him having contingency plans with regards to FFP, should we fail to get promoted this season, so I don't think he himself is expecting to go anywhere, he's also said that seventy percent of his job is non football, on the business side of things he might be doing okay. On that front I think the best we can hope for is that a more modern thinker, is brought in to make the footballing decisions.

With Round, people seem to want to play his role down, but from everything that's coming out of the club, it seems to be a very a important one, I haven't got a clue what he's done so far though, Wyness seems to talk him up, but is very vague on the details.

I'd much prefer it, if we could bring in someone like Cortese, but I doubt that's going to happen.

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Wyness was only talking recently about him having contingency plans with regards to FFP, should we fail to get promoted this season, so I don't think he himself is expecting to go anywhere, he's also said that seventy percent of his job is non football, on the business side of things he might be doing okay. On that front I think the best we can hope for is that a more modern thinker, is brought in to make the footballing decisions.

With Round, people seem to want to play his role down, but from everything that's coming out of the club, it seems to be a very a important one, I haven't got a clue what he's done so far though, Wyness seems to talk him up, but is very vague on the details.

I'd much prefer it, if we could bring in someone like Cortese, but I doubt that's going to happen.

I have it from a trusted source Round is mainly a researcher. He prepares a topic and then presents his ideas to managers, coaching staff etc - but its up to them if they are implemented.
Wyness pretty much confirmed this when selecting Bruce round did the leg work on a whole host of managers - but the final decision was Wyness and rubber stamped by XIA.