Hillsborough inquest

Judgements are coming in live
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-inquest-jury-returns-verdict-live-updates?CMP=share_btn_fb

This happened well before my time in terms of watching English football, but yet I can't think of a more classless way than how everyone at Liverpool keep going on about this. It was awful and sad, but let the dead rest and move on.

Unfortunately those who are terming them victimpool has a good point.

Oooh, Joppe. I'm not quite sure you have a solid understanding of WHY people (not just Liverpool fans) were (and obviously still are) horrified by the events of that day, how they came about and the awful cover-ups that went on after.

Anyone commenting negatively on Joppe's post, please refrain from outright abuse. Just state your point as best you can without getting too personal. Ta.

Yeah it is totally classless to want to have those who covered their tracks and placed blame on the dead and printed lies in newspapers etc brought to justice. Just let them off eh. Same goes for all the paedos at the BBC. And any remaining Nazi war criminals. Just move on and let the die rest. 

Or not, because that's moronic. 

I've no love for LFC, and have always maintained that the fans who forced their way in deserve a proportion of the blame. But not nearly to the degree that they have been dumped on.

Joppe obv not in tune with the whole story, people say the wrong things at the wrong time sometimes, that's life.

RIP the 96.

Hope they get relegated next year.

I agree with Dan 100% but let's not jump too hard on Joppe, he's looking at it from both a time and geographical distance. I'd also like to endorse 4bets hopes for next season

I have no time at all for LFC but what happened at Hillsborough that day could of been at any ground of the day, the way the Police took all football fans as being pi55ed up hooligans who needed to be herded in & out of grounds, watching the football behind fences, the surge & crush (when we used to score important goals) on The Holte.

My first ignorant conclusion was that when the Police opened up the gates, 100s of mindless ticketless idiots surged in & caused the crush, but the inquest has proved otherwise & the subsequent cover up over the last 27yrs is sickening.

Unfortunately it took Hillsborough to change the face of English stadia & for the general public to realise not every football fan of the 70s & 80s were mindless thugs, this isn't a verdict for just Liverpool, its a verdict for every football fan up & down the country.

I wont lie, the atmosphere in The Holte when standing was far, far better than what we experience today, but until we can implement safe standing, I am perfectly happy to sit.

RIP 96

I just don't understand how the fans can be completely blameless in this. Yes the police and the subsequent cover ups are entirely wrong and deserve the criticism for this but surely the fact remains that if the Liverpool fans arrived in time, went through the turnstiles showing tickets and went to the areas they were supposed to that this horrible incident wouldn't have happened.
Instead there were thousands still out the ground with a few minutes to kick off causing a crush at the turnstiles. This left the police in an almost impossible position where they could let the people be crushed at the front or open the gates to save lives outside the ground. Unfortunately we know this led to the incidents inside the ground but who is to say that the fatalities outside the ground would not have been worse?

Much sympathy for anyone who lost someone that day - I remember the day well.

That said we do seem to have gone from one extreme to the other

It was the Liverpool supporters - they behaved like animals

To

The Liverpool supporters are totally innocent - the police behaved disgracefully.

I think the truth is somewhere between the two. An over simplicifation - but I think the Liverpool supporters haven't given up - until a report stating what they wanted to hear was produced.

I was just old enough to go to Villa on my own at that point and I remember having dinner with my family and it came on the news. The scenes were horrific and we were all shocked... especially Mom as she'd just let her 14 year old son start going to football on his tod. Never have liked and never will like Liverpool or Liverpudlians but felt so sorry for them. My folks thought it was 'hooligans' and thugs but it seemed pretty clear early on that there was no fighting. I actually remember saying, 'Can you see any fighting?' to my Dad who was going off on one.

A lot of mistakes happened that day. Opening the wrong gates, not postponing the match, giving Liverpool (the best supported team in the country at that time) fewer tickets and the two stands with a lower capacity etc. Having been attending matches at that time, it could have literally happened to any club that had played in a top match at that time. On the other hand, fences were there for a reason. Footie fans were no angels and I don't for one minute believe that supporters can be absolved of any blame... especially those that turned up without a ticket. But those guys weren't the ones who died. The fans who turned up early to support their team were the ones that paid the price for systemic failures in policing and crowd control and their deaths are the ones that this verdict gives some terms of address to in terms exposing the cover up and underhanded tactics of the establishment.

#JF96

"The SUN" newspaper, accused Liverpool fans of robbing from the injured and dying on the pitch.

Took them 20 years to apologise and blame an already despatched Editor. Pockets bulging with dosh.

They hardly sold a newspaper to a Liverpool, Everton or Tranmere fan ever again. Even NOW...27 years later.

Piece-by-Piece  the Cover-Ups, the lies, the distortion and the mis-information from a mainly Tory Government
...has been peeled back...piece-by-piece.

I'll never vote Tory in my life, but I do thank this PM ~ a Tory... for giving the families the bloody opportunity to have respite, grief and peace.

If anyone has followed the 2/3 excellent blogs, from the PA/BBC/Guardian etc...even the Telegraph did a dibble...
they will have seen that the inquest over the last 2 years has unravelled a bloody multitude of corruption.
Covering up..moving PCs out of questioning range, ...finding a guy to fall on his sword, before Cancer took him....

...............

Will address another point about fans....

It was a well-worked  and regular practise to ~
"mob the gates"
Cup matches or whatever was important...the club fans, with the heaviest supporters could turn up~~~ without tickets, swarm the gates..and eventualy they would be let in through the Big Exit Gates...cos there wasn't enough Police or Stewards and so on...I've seen it at VP with even Spurs fans bursting in a couple of minutes after KO.
Them is the days of Standing. ...and not needing a Ticket or Refence no:

For the younger readers....you could, at the time of Hillsborough, go to any match ...pay-on-day...and stand anywhere.
Liverpool fans did what Man Utd fans did what Spurs and Arsenal fans did ... pay-on-the-turnstile...or browbeat the Stewards and the Police and get in free at the last minute.By being "en-masse"
A Ticket match would be even worse. Turnstiles clogged..who has a ticket who is grumbling who is genuine...open the EXIT Doors...let em all in.

That Ploy was well known. It  often worked I  think.

Cover was a disgrace, as was the artifical reporting, but What I don't get it if they were 'Unlawfully killed' - Where are the prosecutions ?

I don't think anyone will ever be prosecuted over this, because anyone accused will get a defence lawyer - and both sides of the tale will be told\defended. IMO that would involve some things being said that the Liverpool supporters wouldn't want to hear. (ie they weren't totally innocent)