Moving forward - what tactics short term?

Need to get results already.

Could try playing Gestede and Kozak as a twin spearhead. Rain in crosses from both flanks and either Jack or Carles to thead little through balls into the box.

Agbonlahor could take up a position in the main stand and watch or make himself useful in the club shop.

We need to stick to 433. Drop Gabby and Gestede. Play Ayew,Grealish,Traore and Gil/new striker if needed.

Pack the midfield with Gueye, Veretout/Sanchez and Westwood.

Back to basics. Let them gel as a unit in one tactics. Stop that 442 or diamond bollocks.

Bunn

Hutton....Richards....Clark....Amavi


Traore....Veretout....Gana....Sinclair


.......................Grealish


..................Gestede


This is what i'd like to see v NC, Jack did good so he plays, Kozak and Gil get 30mins.

The idea being to see if Gestede needs wide men. If it don't look good revert to my favoured 4-3-3 with same back5, Veretout Sanchez Gana and for me a front 3 of Traore Sinclair Grealish........but wanna see Gill at some point.

We some how have to educate these guys to think football and positional sense when we have and don't have posession.
Second balls, knock downs, poor control, movement, can all be worked on.
Palace yesterday closed down well, used their pace to open up play and showed us how to use pace.

I might be banging on about this, but stick with the defensive setup from the first two matches with possibly Bunn on for Guzan and Hutton for Bacuna (although I'm still not so sure). Westwood and Gueye in front. Give Veretout the same gametime to get up to speed allowed to Gabby so far. Make it clear diving and rolling around gets you punished by the club (I wonder if that's why Ayew and Veretout didn't play yesterday?). Don't ever play Westwood in a position other than defensive midfielder ahead of the defence, from where he can distribute the ball properly, we have so many attacking midfielders now we don't need him doing that and we don't need to play three defensive midfielders. Bring Sanchez on as defensive enforcer after 70 minutes or so. Go on the attack from the very start and be the team dictating the other team's tactics rather than waiting to see what they're doing before responding to them (or not). Use at least two subs per match.

One more thing, we need to look at playing Richards - Okore - Clark at the back. Okore can maraude if he wants (he's good at that and seems to be very accurate with long balls), have Amavi and Bacuna (or even Traore if he can be taught how to play wingback, unless he really still wasn't fit yesterday, hence not coming back to help Bacuna) running the flanks and FoxyAV's yer tactical genius.

Oh yeah, and teach Gestede how to actually move for balls kicked long in his direction. He had the ball nicked while he was waiting for it to arrive yesterday. If he's going to be used as a target man he needs to be on his toes, and have someone there for him to knock the ball down to.

Tactics ? - the defence need to be better drilled\organised - they need to have a system of how to bring the ball out of defence for example. It all seems very much off the cuff.

We seem to have invested unwisley up front - none of our strikers seem to carry much goal threat.

Theres a week left hopefully a CB and decent striker please.

Would love to see some major transfer activity this week, I have an idea who I'd like and the formation I wanna see........Goes like this and involves 4 new signings and 3/4 moving out.........

..................................Anders Lindegaard



DeAndre Yedlin........Richards..............Lecsott................Amavi



..........................Veretout..................Gueye



.........Traore........................Grealish.........................Gil




.......................................Charlie Austin


Subs From.... Guzan, Gestede, Ayew, Sinclair, Kozak, Sanchez, Westwood, Okore, Clark, Baker, Bacuna, Crespo, Bennett + Kids

The rest can find clubs.

Joppe84 wrote:We need to stick to 433. Drop Gabby and Gestede. Play Ayew,Grealish,Traore and Gil/new striker if needed.

Pack the midfield with Gueye, Veretout/Sanchez and Westwood.

Back to basics. Let them gel as a unit in one tactics. Stop that 442 or diamond bollocks.

I'm bumping this and quoteing myself like a douche, cause I feel it's important.

That 4-4-2 we deployed against Leicester was alright first half. We played some decent football. We actually did better with 4-4-2 than I anticipated, but I still don't think the potential of 4-4-2 in the modern game will be anywhere near what we can achieve with 4-3-3/4-5-1. And if we are gonna play Gil and Grealish, two players that basically don't track back, we have to pack the midfield with 3 CMs.. We are so much better at retaining possession this season compared to the earlier seasons as well.

Anyone have any thoughts on it?

Well I believe that TS is possibly aiming to eventually play 3 at the back. I'd assume that the three would be Lescott, Clark and Richardson.
Left midfield would then be Amavi with probably Bacuna on the right, who would benefit from less defensive duties.
Central holding midfielders of Geyene and possibly Ilori, who played midfield for the U21s. I don't know how he got on or where in midfield, but I'd assume it wasn't attacking.
Then perm any three from Jack, Carless, Adama, Gabby (who did ok vs Leics), Gestede or Ayew.
That combo and we'll easily stay ahead of Chelsea and run Man Citeh close for the league :)

I wouldn't play Ayew. The key will be getting TrAore back in. Then go from their.

Sorry I forgot Sinclair in the attacking mix

DaveAV1 wrote:Sorry I forgot Sinclair in the attacking mix

And Kozak

I like the 3 at the back line up but Clark concerns me. When he's good, he's very good but.....

Trotters wrote:I like the 3 at the back line up but Clark concerns me. When he's good, he's very good but.....

I fully understand this, but Lescott was directly at blame for at least one, arguably two goals against Leicester. I'd rather have a 25 year old Clark that will learn and get better, than a 33 year old Lescott doing exactly the same amount of mistakes. The dribbling Lescott started doing that lead to the 1-2 equalizer was likely the worst bit of defending from a Villa CB I've seen, ever. Possibly Ridgewell had something similar, but can't remember it.

You obviously forgot that "clearance" from Curtis Davis (?) that was every bit as good as a corner. Fuck me he almost scored from it.

Let's give Lescott a few games with his new team before we slaughter him too much. Yes, that mix up with Bacuna was horrendously comical and, regardless of how long he's been with the club for, should never have happened.

And whilst I agree with the concept of using Clark as he'll learn and (hopefully) improve, we've got too many players learning and improving.....and a manager doing the same!

I'm not normally a huge fan of 3 at the back and wingbacks but Amavi likes to really have a go at getting forward and Bacuna is better in the opposition half too so it certainly wouldn't be a negative formation for us to use.

Ideally, a cup game would be an ideal time to try it out. Just not the NEXT cup game!

FoxyAV wrote:

DaveAV1 wrote:Sorry I forgot Sinclair in the attacking mix

And Kozak

yeah and Kozak. Bloody hell we do have plenty of attacking players. Hopefully most of them gel soon :)

The worry with Kozak is that Sherwood might well be giving his purchases preference over players he inherited. That doesn't explain the Gabby conundrum, but then Sherwood's had half of last season working with Gabby, while he hasn't had that time with Kozak.

The longer it all goes on though the worry is by the first of January Adebayor could well have signed for us, and Kozak falls even further down the pecking order. He is playing though, albeit in the reserves, so that suggests he's not having the kind of problems Herd and Helenius endured that weren't made public.

Ok, I've quoted from the MOTM poll as this is more about tactics.

Trotters wrote:Gabby is ok when we're on the fast break and he can chase the ball. The shot he set up for Gil was an example of this.

But when we're trying to break down the opposition with a bit of clever movement (as Foxy has pointed out), our flair players are just waiting to thread thru that magic pass.

Anyway, Gil got my nod. A shame he can't last 90 mins.

Perhaps Gabby should move back to left wing and let Grealish free in the number 10 role in the middle.

Going back to subs, it seems we have some very good players doubling up on positions. I've banged on about Westwood starting and Sanchez taking over, so how about (assuming Sherwood wants to try the 4-2-2 again):

Start 4-4-2 with Grealish on left wing, Traore on right, Gabby and Gestede in the middle. Gueye and Westwood in defensive midfield. Gabby supporting Gestede, wingers and LB/RB banging in crosses for Gestede. Three subs (assuming no injuries):

Gestede off for Kozak.
Traore off for Gil.
Westwood or Gueye off for Sanchez.

We have Kozak leading the line with Gabby, Gil and Grealish in support. Sanchez comes in to provide fresh legs and to break up attacks.

Maybe sack of a traditional striker altogether unless we are going to call on Gestede and put balls constantly into the box. 

Veretout-Sanchez-Gueye midfield. 

Traore-Grealish-Gil in front of them. Maybe Ayew if he gets up to speed and Gabby if we need someone to mindlessly chase the ball for the last 15mins of a match.

And if we need a goal - Gestede on for any if the front and tell them to get outwide and cross the bloody ball

------------------- Guzan ----------------

---- Richards ---- Lescott ---- Clark ----

Okore ---- Sanchez ---- Gana --- Amavi

---------------------- Gil ------------------

---------- Traore ---------- Sinclair ------


Given the frailties we've shown over the last few weeks - especially in the full back slots - I think this backline (when in defensive mode) is very very strong. Both wide centre backs have competent cover in front of them as well as exceptional outlets when it comes to either a fast break or just keeping the ball and working it up slowly. This team/formation should have a few different gears in them. Richards has shown a penchant for bombing forward (Lescott has done the same a few times and embarrassed Westwood as its what he should be doing) and if they do decide to go on a bit of a gallop upfield, Okore can slip back into their holes (oo-er)

And fuck having to rely upon getting the ball right on Gestede's noggin or having to use Gabby's pace and hope he can produce something. Fuck watching Hutton take that extra touch or two instead of whipping the ball in early (or, more to the point, shanking it somewhere random). If we attack down one wing with Amavi and Sinclair, then Gana, Gil and Traore can bomb into and around the box and cause all manner of mayhem whilst we're still adequately covered at the back.

Likewise, if Traore comes out wide and supported by Gil, they've got cover behind them and either Gana of Amavi can push up to support Sinclair.

Those front three are pretty interchangeable and We have Grealish as a sub or a replacement if the others aren't performing. Gabby can replace Sinclair when he tires, Gil can come wide to replace Traore, etc. Its all quite fluid.

If we're 2-0 again and need to hold that lead, you take one of those front three off and stick Veretout or Westwood on.

Again, it lacks an outright striker but fact is we don't have one that any of us would put any hard earned money on scoring, so why bother trying to fit championship pegs in premiership holes?

That's is as close as I can work out to a "total football" formation. The opposition won't know where, when or how we'll have a go at them. It's infinitely harder to plan against than the stationary teams Sherwood is putting out.

Trotters wrote:Those front three are pretty interchangeable and We have Grealish as a sub or a replacement if the others aren't performing. Gabby can replace Sinclair when he tires, Gil can come wide to replace Traore, etc. Its all quite fluid.

We don't agree on choice of players but what we absolutely agree on is using players and subs intelligently!

If Sherwood learns from his mistakes and doesn't repeat them I think we'll be ok. If he adopts the head in sand mentality that saw Lambert stick religously to the same formation and players (and the substitution on exactly 60 minutes) we'll need a new manager before we've been bottom of the table too long to make a difference.

Been watching the site for a while this is my first time posting (its a great site) I agree with most of the above but Grealish has to play and a fit Gardner would offer more in midfield ,I think people have forgotten him ,unlike Westwood he can head, tackle, past forward and takes a great free kick imo

villajk wrote:Been watching the site for a while this is my first time posting (its a great site) I agree with most of the above but Grealish has to play and a fit Gardner would offer more in midfield ,I think people have forgotten him ,unlike Westwood he can head, tackle, past forward and takes a great free kick imo

Good point on Gardner.

I just had a look at some stats and Gabby is rock bottom of the starters so far this season.

Amavi, Clark, Gueye and Richards top four, in that order.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24/Show/-Aston-Villa