Jordan Graham - Another one bites the dust!

I see young Jordan Graham has signed permanently for Wolves today. Shame as the kid looked amazing at youth level but unfortunately once again proves that whilst we do seem to be able to produce magnificent 15-18 year olds, we are now shockingly disappointing at nurturing through to first team level.

Probably best not to mention a certain young lad that played yesterday, but that performance was sufficient proof that the above is correct. There is a colossal difference between the u21 league and league 1, to the premier league. A lot of fans do not seem to grasp that. Look at the whole crop of 18-21 year olds at the club currently....none of them will be good enough for us and all will eventually find their level further down the pyramid.

Doesn't help that we don't have a universal way of playing throughout the club. All teams play differently. PL should have been all over that. Apparently this is big on the agenda at the moment and changes are happening behind the scenes, addressing those kind of glaring errors. Shame re JG, I think he will sadly go down the Moore brothers path.

GadgetMan wrote:Doesn't help that we don't have a universal way of playing throughout the club. All teams play differently. PL should have been all over that. Apparently this is big on the agenda at the moment and changes are happening behind the scenes, addressing those kind of glaring errors. Shame re JG, I think he will sadly go down the Moore brothers path.

Another two "future saviours" I recall....and you are 100% correct in what you say, both about JG and also the clubs footballing philosophy (or lack of).

The annoying thing being that Gabby is still in this squad and his only saving grace is his pace. I'm sure we've let more technically gifted players go but he remains

Villa_Dan wrote:The annoying thing being that Gabby is still in this squad and his only saving grace is his pace. I'm sure we've let more technically gifted players go but he remains

100%

But then I'm more technically gifted than Gabby, as are most posters to this forum....his touch is probably the worst I've ever seen at this level of football.

My pet snake has a better 1st touch than Gabby! And she's got more common sense

In Gabby's defence, I think Weimann has a worse first touch. Well, maybe not worse, but as bad.

Mardy, I don't know why you insist on mocking our kids. Also, I don't think anyone thinks anybody is the clubs saviour, and comments like that are very daft. Grealish should be out on loan at a Championship club and Cole should probably not even be at Villa. But people were pleased to see them yesterday because it meant no Gabby, Weimann, or N'Zogbia. The point is that Gabby/Weimann should have been replaced a long time ago. The way Grealish is coming through is just fine. The reason people get frustrated about him not starting is that clearly in his cameos he DOES - despite your efforts to suggest otherwise - do that little bit more than his more senior partners. Even fans of other teams see it. In the past week or so I've had two 'Noses, a Baggie, a Dingle and a Brummie Red all ask me why Grealish is not more involved.

However, if we as a team were any good, I don't suppose anyone would complain. If Grealish was coming on for 20 minutes replacing Stewart Downing whilst on the same pitch as Ashley Young and James Milner, for example, no-one would bat an eyelid. The reason people want more is because the players that are supposedly ahead of Grealish have been putting in the same pathetic inept performances for the majority of the past 2 and a half seasons under Lambert.

No-one thinks Grealish is the saviour of anything, and to suggest otherwise is simply facetious for the sake of it. Or possibly not understanding people. Or something else all together. Whichever way, it's absolute nonsense. Certainly I have more faith in Grealish than I have had in any kid since I saw Gareth Barry as a teenager. That doesn't mean I think he's any friggin' saviour. It also doesn't mean I write off anyone else, but yes for a couple of years now I have believed that Grealish has far more chance than say Callum Robinson - or Jordan Graham, for that matter - of 'making it' as a Prem player.

For the record, until the midfield starts to move in ways that drag opposition defenders/midfielders out of position, then someone like Grealish, or Cole, or even Benteke (who can knock a lovely pass) when he drops deep, will struggle to create. Creating requires movement from others. It requires more than full backs bombing on, it needs fluidity across the front 6 as well as getting the full backs involved. We have none of that other than a few forward bursts from Hutton and Cissokho. So while you suggest that people don't understand that there is a gap between levels, I'd suggest that most of us understand that plenty, however I'd argue that you possibly don't understand that teams quickly learn to double up on Grealish because they know this kid offers more threat than the rest of the team. So all they need to do is double up on him, and keep their shape, and Villa will struggle.

But hey, if it is easier for you to write off a kid because he's not putting in Gareth Bale like performances already, then by all means feel free to mock the intelligence of other Villa fans, and the chances of one of the brightest young prospects we've had in years.

kimbo wrote:In Gabby's defence, I think Weimann has a worse first touch. Well, maybe not worse, but as bad.

Mardy, I don't know why you insist on mocking our kids. Also, I don't think anyone thinks anybody is the clubs saviour, and comments like that are very daft. Grealish should be out on loan at a Championship club and Cole should probably not even be at Villa. But people were pleased to see them yesterday because it meant no Gabby, Weimann, or N'Zogbia. The point is that Gabby/Weimann should have been replaced a long time ago. The way Grealish is coming through is just fine. The reason people get frustrated about him not starting is that clearly in his cameos he DOES - despite your efforts to suggest otherwise - do that little bit more than his more senior partners. Even fans of other teams see it. In the past week or so I've had two 'Noses, a Baggie, a Dingle and a Brummie Red all ask me why Grealish is not more involved.

However, if we as a team were any good, I don't suppose anyone would complain. If Grealish was coming on for 20 minutes replacing Stewart Downing whilst on the same pitch as Ashley Young and James Milner, for example, no-one would bat an eyelid. The reason people want more is because the players that are supposedly ahead of Grealish have been putting in the same pathetic inept performances for the majority of the past 2 and a half seasons under Lambert.

No-one thinks Grealish is the saviour of anything, and to suggest otherwise is simply facetious for the sake of it. Or possibly not understanding people. Or something else all together. Whichever way, it's absolute nonsense. Certainly I have more faith in Grealish than I have had in any kid since I saw Gareth Barry as a teenager. That doesn't mean I think he's any friggin' saviour. It also doesn't mean I write off anyone else, but yes for a couple of years now I have believed that Grealish has far more chance than say Callum Robinson - or Jordan Graham, for that matter - of 'making it' as a Prem player.

For the record, until the midfield starts to move in ways that drag opposition defenders/midfielders out of position, then someone like Grealish, or Cole, or even Benteke (who can knock a lovely pass) when he drops deep, will struggle to create. Creating requires movement from others. It requires more than full backs bombing on, it needs fluidity across the front 6 as well as getting the full backs involved. We have none of that other than a few forward bursts from Hutton and Cissokho. So while you suggest that people don't understand that there is a gap between levels, I'd suggest that most of us understand that plenty, however I'd argue that you possibly don't understand that teams quickly learn to double up on Grealish because they know this kid offers more threat than the rest of the team. So all they need to do is double up on him, and keep their shape, and Villa will struggle.

But hey, if it is easier for you to write off a kid because he's not putting in Gareth Bale like performances already, then by all means feel free to mock the intelligence of other Villa fans, and the chances of one of the brightest young prospects we've had in years.

Wow

Mardybum72 wrote:

kimbo wrote:In Gabby's defence, I think Weimann has a worse first touch. Well, maybe not worse, but as bad.

Mardy, I don't know why you insist on mocking our kids. Also, I don't think anyone thinks anybody is the clubs saviour, and comments like that are very daft. Grealish should be out on loan at a Championship club and Cole should probably not even be at Villa. But people were pleased to see them yesterday because it meant no Gabby, Weimann, or N'Zogbia. The point is that Gabby/Weimann should have been replaced a long time ago. The way Grealish is coming through is just fine. The reason people get frustrated about him not starting is that clearly in his cameos he DOES - despite your efforts to suggest otherwise - do that little bit more than his more senior partners. Even fans of other teams see it. In the past week or so I've had two 'Noses, a Baggie, a Dingle and a Brummie Red all ask me why Grealish is not more involved.

However, if we as a team were any good, I don't suppose anyone would complain. If Grealish was coming on for 20 minutes replacing Stewart Downing whilst on the same pitch as Ashley Young and James Milner, for example, no-one would bat an eyelid. The reason people want more is because the players that are supposedly ahead of Grealish have been putting in the same pathetic inept performances for the majority of the past 2 and a half seasons under Lambert.

No-one thinks Grealish is the saviour of anything, and to suggest otherwise is simply facetious for the sake of it. Or possibly not understanding people. Or something else all together. Whichever way, it's absolute nonsense. Certainly I have more faith in Grealish than I have had in any kid since I saw Gareth Barry as a teenager. That doesn't mean I think he's any friggin' saviour. It also doesn't mean I write off anyone else, but yes for a couple of years now I have believed that Grealish has far more chance than say Callum Robinson - or Jordan Graham, for that matter - of 'making it' as a Prem player.

For the record, until the midfield starts to move in ways that drag opposition defenders/midfielders out of position, then someone like Grealish, or Cole, or even Benteke (who can knock a lovely pass) when he drops deep, will struggle to create. Creating requires movement from others. It requires more than full backs bombing on, it needs fluidity across the front 6 as well as getting the full backs involved. We have none of that other than a few forward bursts from Hutton and Cissokho. So while you suggest that people don't understand that there is a gap between levels, I'd suggest that most of us understand that plenty, however I'd argue that you possibly don't understand that teams quickly learn to double up on Grealish because they know this kid offers more threat than the rest of the team. So all they need to do is double up on him, and keep their shape, and Villa will struggle.

But hey, if it is easier for you to write off a kid because he's not putting in Gareth Bale like performances already, then by all means feel free to mock the intelligence of other Villa fans, and the chances of one of the brightest young prospects we've had in years.

Wow

I think you must have touched a nerve with Kimbo Mardy .... Don't worry about it, it's all a matter of opinions.

villabromsgrove wrote:

I think you must have touched a nerve with Kimbo Mardy .... Don't worry about it, it's all a matter of opinions.

100% true....I don't remember accusing him of calling anyone a saviour....must be my age!

By the way...I hear they have spent 2 hours this morning at BMH teaching Grealish how to take a throw-in!

I will happily admit that was brought on by far more people than Mardy, he just happened to be the last one to hit said nerve.

As for throw-ins, I think the last time we were competent at them, Big Ron was in charge. Maybe Brian Little. That is one of my biggest Villa pet peeves. For years and years, we have sucked at them. It's actually ridiculous!

kimbo wrote:I will happily admit that was brought on by far more people than Mardy, he just happened to be the last one to hit said nerve.

As for throw-ins, I think the last time we were competent at them, Big Ron was in charge. Maybe Brian Little. That is one of my biggest Villa pet peeves. For years and years, we have sucked at them. It's actually ridiculous!

I was referring to Grealish taking a foul throw yesterday.....I don't actually remember ever seeing a foul throw before in a professional match...must of happened I suppose, never seen it though!

I've seen a few foul throws at VP by the Villa and oposition teams. And I've always said the same - I'd fine the player a weeks wages for being so stupid. It's basics.

But the Villa always have the same plan with throw ins - chuck it up high for Benteke. CB20 isn't playing? Chuck it up high for Gabby. Morons.

I think we must have one of of the lowest percentages of ball retention from throw ins.

Mardybum72 wrote:

kimbo wrote:I will happily admit that was brought on by far more people than Mardy, he just happened to be the last one to hit said nerve.

As for throw-ins, I think the last time we were competent at them, Big Ron was in charge. Maybe Brian Little. That is one of my biggest Villa pet peeves. For years and years, we have sucked at them. It's actually ridiculous!

I was referring to Grealish taking a foul throw yesterday.....I don't actually remember ever seeing a foul throw before in a professional match...must of happened I suppose, never seen it though!

They happen a lot. Refs just don't give them. My Dad is always pointing them out! Obviously a lot of that is to do with stealing yards - stealing five yards on a free kick is wrong but stealing fifteen yards on a throw in is apparently fine - but also the arm action is wrong a lot, and feet over the touchline get ignored sometimes too. Weird thing is how pedantic they are on so much else but ignore that. Mind you, probably shouldn't tug at this thread, I mean if I was to start ranting about bad tackles getting the same punishment as someone taking their shirt off, or the difference between a deliberate foul and just getting done by a piece of skill, or the way diving is handled (by both refs and those in charge of the game), or the inconsistency of dealing with the nonsense in the area before every single god damn corner... My rant would be far longer than my earlier one 

Thought Grealish played ok yesterday. Didn't help that Cissoko took up all his space on the wing, without ever taking players away from Grealish with a run. Grealish is one of the few non static players we have, at least he moves before the ball comes to him, until our midfield who can only receive a pass when standing still.
In terms of our youth, Cahill, Steven Davis, Craig Gardner all are premier league players who came through the youth perhaps it's various managers inability to incorporate youth into a team that's the problem.

People used to slag Steven Davis off all the time, I got bored of defending him. He's turned out just fine.

As for Gary Cahill, every time I think about the fact that we let him go to bring in Curtis Davies and Zat Knight, my blood pressure goes through the roof...

Didn't we sell Cahill for £3.5m and sign Davies for £8m? Genius...

Villa_Dan wrote:Didn't we sell Cahill for £3.5m and sign Davies for £8m? Genius...

Off the top of my head, we sold him for £5m, Davies was £8m and I think Zat Knight was £3.5m - but I may be wrong on all 3 

I always though Steven Davis was a good player, we've got rid of plenty of players who would walk in to our squad these days.
We're all guilty of getting on the backs of some of them but we thought we were heading for better things.... Little did we know we'd go from knocking on the door of the champions leauge to knocking on the trap door to the championship.

kimbo wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:Didn't we sell Cahill for £3.5m and sign Davies for £8m? Genius...

Off the top of my head, we sold him for £5m, Davies was £8m and I think Zat Knight was £3.5m - but I may be wrong on all 3 

Doesn't make me feel any better about it!!

Villa_Dan wrote:

kimbo wrote:

Villa_Dan wrote:Didn't we sell Cahill for £3.5m and sign Davies for £8m? Genius...

Off the top of my head, we sold him for £5m, Davies was £8m and I think Zat Knight was £3.5m - but I may be wrong on all 3 

Doesn't make me feel any better about it!!

Ha, no, nor should it!

Stratfordvilla wrote:Thought Grealish played ok yesterday. Didn't help that Cissoko took up all his space on the wing, without ever taking players away from Grealish with a run. Grealish is one of the few non static players we have, at least he moves before the ball comes to him, until our midfield who can only receive a pass when standing still.
In terms of our youth, Cahill, Steven Davis, Craig Gardner all are premier league players who came through the youth perhaps it's various managers inability to incorporate youth into a team that's the problem.

That's the system...Cissoko wasn't taking space as such, but rather Lambert has decided that any wing play will come from Cissoko and Hutton.....hence the completely motionless front 3!

The amount of times Cissoko got the ball in our half on Sunday and there was absolutely nobody between him and the opposing by-line....a channel of around 70 yards long and 20 yards wide.....screaming out for a nice early ball down the line to, ooh I dunno...maybe a striker peeling off his marker for a change and running a sodding channel!!!.....just never happened. Once we get the ball in that area, before the opposing midfield have had chance to all get behind the ball then maybe, just maybe we will have a bit more room to create an opening....and the likes of Grealish will have chance to do something.

At the moment that ball from Cissoko goes inside to Sanchez...95% of the time....5 or 6 passes later it's back with Cissoko, within 10 yards of where he played it to Sanchez originally....but now every opposing player is goalside.....I'm all for patient build up, and it's nice to watch, but we have to mix it up....throw in some early longer passes when they are there to play!