The Bells Are Ringing


WAIT!

The ads on this site tend to screw the formatting up a bit and make your visit less pleasant.

But we pay for the ads to be removed for members so why not sign up and have a better viewing experience?

Go on....Sign up. There's no messing about, it's a 20 second job!


Financial "Fair" play?

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by jeffvilla on Wed May 30, 2018 3:07 pm

@The Utterer wrote:Ok here's my view,

FFP is basically there to help small clubs compete and supposedly protect bigger clubs from going under if a wealthy owner "does one" and leaves them in the turd.

What it does not take into account is the ruination of football as you end up with smaller clubs moving upwards but without the fan support structure to justify it.

In other words you will eventually end up with the top leagues being full of half empty stadiums and dozens of dour fixtures which most fans wouldn't want to see or spend their hard earned cash going to watch want.

For example

Man Utd v Villa/Leeds/Forest etc
or
Man Utd v Fulham/Brighton/Huddersfield/Watford/Burnley/Bournemouth Etc etc?

I know which would be the more appealing fixtures to me and i'm sure most neutrals.

That may be harsh on those clubs but that's basically now what is happening to the game because largely of FFP.

It's ruining the game as a spectacle in my opinion and is making a mockery of fan bases, History, stadiums etc.

But it's ok... at least no one will go bust by overspending. Lets just hope the game doesn't disintegrate through lack of interest of huge fan bases up & down the country.

For goodness sake can someone please challenge it as it is wrecking the game in my eyes.

Bang on, the rich clubs ignore it and just pay the fine because they can. And I totally agree it is ruining the gam.
avatar
jeffvilla



Posts : 729
Reputation : 396
Join date : 2014-04-16
Age : 61

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:04 am

I'm starting to think we should just ignore FFP and take whatever fine comes our way, I mean look where we've ended up by following the rules, and it could get worse, even if we were hit with a points deduction or demotion, overall we wouldn't actually be in a worse position... Besides I bet no team will ever be hit with a demotion or a points deduction, no matter what they do, as it would cause too much of a legal battle and could in of itself ultimately end in the demise FFP.

I don't understand why an owner can't put in what he wants as long as he's good for it, by all means have some sort of test to prove they're not going to leave a club in financial ruin, but once that's passed there shouldn't be a problem.

deadbuzzardalive



Posts : 3521
Reputation : 1569
Join date : 2014-05-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Fpuppys on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:17 pm

I agree with the above post from DB, if we have the capital that Xia claims to have then pay the fine, but why throw good money after bad, after all there's no guarantee that A: new players will settle in quickly. B:The U23 can cope with Championship football and above all C: Have we the right management installed to carry us over the line?

IMO; No! to all of the above.

Only came on hear to post and urge all to read this about FFP crap, it's from the Mail online, so as usual take with a pinch of salt.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5792685/Powered-spite-vultures-tearing-Aston-Villas-carcass.html
avatar
Fpuppys



Posts : 926
Reputation : 384
Join date : 2014-04-28
Age : 54
Location : Wishing I was somewhere else.

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by The Utterer on Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:05 pm

Thats a good article in the Mail i have to say...problem is nobody is listening as the smaller clubs will always but always support FFP as it's their biggest hope of competing and so whatever happens we will forever be outvoted when it comes to it.

The only way is if it was legally fought but even then a few "back handers" would likely scupper any chance of getting it stopped.

Villa are in the unfortunate position of being the biggest club in the Championship and so it affects us more than any other surely? I'm sure a fe others with wealthy owners would prefer it wasn't there but we have suffered from the old adage "The bigger they are the harder they fall" and it is destroying this club now.
avatar
The Utterer



Posts : 1249
Reputation : 1167
Join date : 2014-04-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by VTID85 on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:02 am

@VTID85 wrote:I honestly haven't known another club talk so much about FFP as we do, both as fans and as staff.

Interestingly since posting this I've heard a bit more from Derby County about FFP and being in a remarkably familiar sounding position to us.
avatar
VTID85



Posts : 737
Reputation : 725
Join date : 2014-04-30
Location : Derby

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Dazzle on Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Regarding Simon Jordans comments, the bit I am drawn to is when he states that a club can carry losses as long as the owner underwrites them. Marry that to what Xia has said in his statement and you can see why Jordan has mentioned the possibility of new owners, as it seems clear from Xias statement that he’s not putting in the money. That’s either because he hasn’t got the money, or he wishes to shoot himself in the foot
avatar
Dazzle



Posts : 967
Reputation : 1150
Join date : 2014-08-10
Age : 45
Location : Oxford

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by The Utterer on Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:39 am

Something is not right with it all. Simon Jordan clearly has heard something and coupled with Xia's statement and the silence otherwise it appears something is up,

As for FFP well i'm now really confused. If we can have underwritten losses what on Earth is going on and how exacty does FFp work?
avatar
The Utterer



Posts : 1249
Reputation : 1167
Join date : 2014-04-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Synopsis on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:26 am

My understanding of the FFP is if the losses are :

Less than £5m and no underwriting = no punishment
more than £5m and not underwritten = punished.
between £5m and £13m and underwritten = no punishment
over £13m regardless of underwriting = punishment

The punishments have been changed this season and are to be decided on by an independent panel and can consist of any combination of: Transfer embargo, Fine, Point Deduction, direct relegation from the division and the punishment is decided on at the panels discretion depending on how severe the breach of the rules
avatar
Synopsis



Posts : 456
Reputation : 466
Join date : 2014-05-16
Location : Dundee

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by bruka on Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:38 am

t the moment with the barrage of negativity in the press people are lumping our operating cost problems and FFP problems in the same pot- they're not. The FFP problems would be there even if Xia was the richest owner in England. The only possible way round it would be for Recon to sponsor the ground for a certain amount per season Man City style. Unfortunately the only other way out is to do things by the book by selling players and reducing the wage bill.
Despite my view that Bruce is the living embodiment of bad football he could be exactly what we need to get out of FFP trouble. Not just by bringing loan players in but also maybe convincing some of his buddies to loan some of our players and pick up their wages for the season. He may even be able to get people to put bids on our players to drive up the price. The important thing to remember is we have until the end of the 18/19 season to balance things out so any suggestion that we must sell our best players for peanuts is nonsense. Going to be a rough couple of seasons no doubt but if we are run the right way we can bounce back from this.

bruka



Posts : 412
Reputation : 176
Join date : 2014-05-14
Age : 31
Location : Wolvo

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by andrew24561 on Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:48 pm

so Gollini has departed , the fire sale has started, though I don't think this is a major shock or loss....................... now if we could only get rid of Richards and MaCormack.
avatar
andrew24561



Posts : 285
Reputation : 310
Join date : 2014-04-16
Age : 57
Location : sutton coldfield

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Synopsis on Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:17 pm

Gollini's potential sale and fee was pre arranged when he went on loan at the start of the season, the fire sale must have been psychic ...
avatar
Synopsis



Posts : 456
Reputation : 466
Join date : 2014-05-16
Location : Dundee

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by FoxyAV on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:12 pm

Gollini was dead to us and us to him when his Italian goalkeeping coach went along with RDM. Shame really, he looked good. Still, I think Steer is a good goalie so hopefully we won't mess around trying to replace Johnstone and he'll get his chance. From memory Lambert thought him good enough to bring along from Norwich, which might count for a little.

Also from memory he did half the pre-season at Wycombe in 2013 and was consistently accurate with long balls while Guzan did the other half and was consistently useless. This too might count for little. I think that was Tony Moon's debut and Jack looked really good on left wing. A lot's changed in five years, hasn't it!
avatar
FoxyAV



Posts : 2430
Reputation : 2093
Join date : 2014-04-21
Location : Winchester

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Dazzle on Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:49 pm

From what I’m reading recently it seems that the talk is about players sales this summer to bring in funds to meet the FFP NEXT summer. If that is the case then wasn’t it QPR who went up to the premier league just a few seasons ago with a championship FFP breach hanging over them?
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2018/06/23/aston-villa-set-to-avoid-immediate-financial-crisis-following-cash-injection/
avatar
Dazzle



Posts : 967
Reputation : 1150
Join date : 2014-08-10
Age : 45
Location : Oxford

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by De Kuip on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:04 pm

Well it might be on a grander scale but there's certainly some similarities regarding A.C. Milan's 12 month euro ban and our FFP plight, especially the Chinese factor.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44599326
avatar
De Kuip



Posts : 2899
Reputation : 3700
Join date : 2014-05-20
Age : 102

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Fpuppys on Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:55 pm

@De Kuip wrote:Well it might be on a grander scale but there's certainly some similarities regarding A.C. Milan's 12 month euro ban and our FFP plight, especially the Chinese factor.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44599326

Just found this piece about the similarities, now I see the light a bit clearer.http://kwese.espn.com/football/club/ac-milan/103/blog/post/3549065/ac-milans-european-expulsionownership-fiasco-understanding-the-mess-in-milan
avatar
Fpuppys



Posts : 926
Reputation : 384
Join date : 2014-04-28
Age : 54
Location : Wishing I was somewhere else.

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by achilles on Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:05 am

@Fpuppys wrote:
@De Kuip wrote:Well it might be on a grander scale but there's certainly some similarities regarding A.C. Milan's 12 month euro ban and our FFP plight, especially the Chinese factor.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44599326

Just found this piece about the similarities, now I see the light a bit clearer.http://kwese.espn.com/football/club/ac-milan/103/blog/post/3549065/ac-milans-european-expulsionownership-fiasco-understanding-the-mess-in-milan

Actually for once a good article and it does explain it all a lot better.
avatar
achilles



Posts : 2311
Reputation : 1386
Join date : 2014-05-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by big ming on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:21 pm

Is there any reason why our new owners (who own a number of successful companies) could not sell Villa Park at full market value to one of their other companies and lease it back to Aston Villa Ltd at a peppercorn rent? I am not sure what Villa Park is worth but it would certainly make a dent in FFP.

big ming



Posts : 421
Reputation : 267
Join date : 2014-05-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Dazzle on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:53 pm

@big ming wrote:Is there any reason why our new owners (who own a number of successful companies) could not sell Villa Park at full market value to one of their other companies and lease it back to Aston Villa Ltd at a peppercorn rent? I am not sure what Villa Park is worth but it would certainly make a dent in FFP.

Bottom line is that if we want to gamble one last time we can, we have until next March. We could be as good as up by then if we keep the quality we have and add a couple. There’s precedent for this. I say that the new owners ignore FFP and go for promotion. I’m relaxed about players such as Jedinak going if there’s buyers, but do everything possible to keep SuperJack, Kodjia etc and go for it! The landscape has just changed again!
avatar
Dazzle



Posts : 967
Reputation : 1150
Join date : 2014-08-10
Age : 45
Location : Oxford

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:58 pm

There seems to be a misconception going around that because Bournemouth and other teams have only received financial penalties for breaching FFP, that we can spend what we want as long as we're prepared to pay the fine. But that's not the case, others haven't received an harsher punishment, because at the time that they breached FFP, the tougher penalties weren't in place, since the rules changed no one has actually surpassed the FFP limited, so there's no precedent in place for us to look to... We could just ignore it if we wanted to, but there's no guarantee that we wouldn't be deducted points or worse...

On the other hand AC Milan had their ban from Europe overturned by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, the other day, after they appealed that there was nothing 'fair' about it in relation to clubs like Man City and PSG... So maybe that could be regarded as guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.

With Edens and Sawiris onboard we should have many options to help with it though, Edens has apparently brought in a lot of big money sponsorship to his basketball team, and has a lot of connections with big business through Fortress, and Sawiris is of course the biggest shareholder in Adidas a company who are intrinsically linked to football, there must be many ways in which we could exploit that to our adantage... Maybe we could sign players on lower wages, but top them up via boot deals with Adidas, so our balance sheet doesn't take the hit, sounds far fetched perhaps, but probably no worse than how Wolves exploited their connections with Mendes.

deadbuzzardalive



Posts : 3521
Reputation : 1569
Join date : 2014-05-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by STO67 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:02 pm

We very quickly need to make our minds up who is managing the club and then back him. By the time Bruce meets the new men, they will be just a shade over a fortnight to get deals done. We are short of at least four quality players if we want to make a realistic go of getting promoted, one of them is a top goalscoring centre forward. We also really could do with a dominant midfielder who can do everything. Time to stick or twist. Many are still saying that players will need to leave the club due to FFP but I agree with others that we need to do everything we can to get as close to the line of ignoring FFP as possible and go for broke again. If we screw it up, Bruce goes, but we have the financial clout to get over it.
avatar
STO67



Posts : 69
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2018-05-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Terry Derry on Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:43 pm

We’ve got too many fans who prefer to stay in this division. Hope they hav a disappointing season.
avatar
Terry Derry



Posts : 343
Reputation : 304
Join date : 2015-08-21
Age : 53
Location : CoveNtry

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Dazzle on Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:53 am

For me we stick with Steve Bruce for now, there isn’t the time left to make the change and get players in or out that a new manager would want. The core set of players we have are used to working with Bruce and we really do need to hit the ground running fast, we HAVE to be amongst the top 2 or 3 pace setters in the opening 6-8 games, and certainly right up there in January. I’d be inclined to let Bruce carry on and see where we are by October.
avatar
Dazzle



Posts : 967
Reputation : 1150
Join date : 2014-08-10
Age : 45
Location : Oxford

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Villa Ranger on Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:07 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:There seems to be a misconception going around that because Bournemouth and other teams have only received financial penalties for breaching FFP, that we can spend what we want as long as we're prepared to pay the fine. But that's not the case, others haven't received an harsher punishment, because at the time that they breached FFP, the tougher penalties weren't in place, since the rules changed no one has actually surpassed the FFP limited, so there's no precedent in place for us to look to... We could just ignore it if we wanted to, but there's no guarantee that we wouldn't be deducted points or worse...

The reason Bournemouth, and more recently QPR, have ended up paying an FFP fine is that they were promoted to the Premier League at the end of the season in which they broke FFP rules.

Obviously the Premier League is governed by the FA so the EFL couldn't enforce a transfer embargo whilst a club does not reside in their league. In order to deter teams from doing this, they enforce a fine instead.

Three clubs (Fulham, Forest & Bolton) all broke the rules and were not promoted, so received transfer embargoes commencing January 2016.

It's true though that under the new rules agreed with the Premier League all sorts of punishments are now possible, including a points deduction within the current season.

This website:

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

talks about the possibility of the EFL demoting a club from an automatic promotion position into the play-offs (or out of the play-offs altogether).

It says that the EFL hopes to be able to review accounts submitted on the 1st March and announce the punishments before the season is over.

To me, this effectively slams the door shut on us going 'shit or bust' for promotion this season because they can can now stop us getting promoted anyway, unless we stay within FFP rules.

The Premier League and EFL have this all sewn up, and it appears that we have a deficit of £40 to £50 million to get back within FFP limits and, no matter how wealthy our owners are, we will have to comply.
avatar
Villa Ranger



Posts : 281
Reputation : 420
Join date : 2015-07-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:14 pm

We've actually been under a transfer embargo this summer, according John Percy in theTelegraph, looks like it's about to be lifted though...

deadbuzzardalive



Posts : 3521
Reputation : 1569
Join date : 2014-05-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Villa Ranger on Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:36 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:We've actually been under a transfer embargo this summer, according John Percy in theTelegraph, looks like it's about to be lifted though...

Everyone is completely flummoxed by this.

Renowned sports journo's and self-proclaimed Twitter ITK's all saying they knew nothing about an embargo.

It begs the question: Do the EFL not announce it when a Club receives an FFP punishment, or do they leave that to the Club's discretion?

Maybe it was imposed because, under Xia, the Club's projections for the coming year took us beyond FFP limits, or maybe Xia couldn't guarantee to put any equity into the Club?

The thought that we've been under an embargo without anyone outside the Club knowing, is astonishing.

avatar
Villa Ranger



Posts : 281
Reputation : 420
Join date : 2015-07-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum