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Financial "Fair" play?

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Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Villa_Dan on Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:11 pm

Following on from Martin Samuel's article, I figured it could be a worthwhile topic to discuss (wasn't sure where on the forum to start it!)

Do you agree with FFP? Is it fine as it? Should it be tweaked slightly?
Or should it be scraped completely? What would you introduce differently?

Personally, I don't see a problem with the transfer sums, it's the salaries which are truly out of control IMO I think football needs a wage cap. And I wouldn't have it means based or different from club to club. Each club should have the same wage cap. If this is beyond their means, then they will lose players, but it will put teams with decent but not unworldly sums of money is a position to have a crack at the status quo, and would stop teams like Chelsea and City offering unGodly sums to poach players away from rivals as they'd have to balance their wage budget accordingly.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:34 pm

Scrap it completely .

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by villabromsgrove on Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:44 pm

Which? …. The thread or FFP! Very Happy 

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Trotters on Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:35 pm

I suspect it'll face a legal test sooner or later when a mid-table club get taken over by someone with a lot of money and a "fuck you, I'll do as I please" attitude.

And in the meantime, as I've said on the other thread, accepted precedents have been set by the "big clubs" so he he door is open for an owner with big money, big brains and big balls.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Green Villan on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:50 pm

Eastie wrote:Scrap it completely .

Here here.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by UnclePanda on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:03 pm

Bring in a wage cap. If I read another article or hear an interview where a player says hes "not joining for the money" (whilst signing a £50,000 a week contract), or says "Im taking a pay cut to join Team X (from £75,000 a week to £60,000 a week) I will strangle them!
Try signing a £20,000 a year contract, or take a pay cut to £15,000 a year. Then, I may have sympathy

And, kick out agents. Absolute scum of the earth. They are the reason behind these wages. They are why there is extortionate money in the game.

And, ban Sky TV. For the same reason as above. Bring all games to terrestrial TV to the fans can watch it. Surely theres something they can do with the "red button" options?

And sell Platini & Blatter to fuck off
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by whiteensign on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:32 pm

@UnclePanda wrote:Bring in a wage cap. If I read another article or hear an interview where a player says hes "not joining for the money" (whilst signing a £50,000 a week contract), or says "Im taking a pay cut to join Team X (from £75,000 a week to £60,000 a week) I will strangle them!
Try signing a £20,000 a year contract, or take a pay cut to £15,000 a year. Then, I may have sympathy

And, kick out agents. Absolute scum of the earth. They are the reason behind these wages. They are why there is extortionate money in the game.

And, ban Sky TV. For the same reason as above. Bring all games to terrestrial TV to the fans can watch it. Surely theres something they can do with the "red button" options?

And sell Platini & Blatter to fuck off

I hear you comrade, but unlike Rugby League, it will be too hard to police. The entire world would have to be in on it, otherwise you'll have the situation where english football is capped and anyone who's any good will go to Spain or Italy to play!!

The agents comment, YES, YES, YES..!!! Fuck them off, scumbags who are ruining the game, maybe the PFA could be tasked with dealing with all transfers and contract deals involving english clubs, at least then it will all be one body.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Tue May 29, 2018 10:13 am

So according to the 'Swiss Ramble' twitter account, who appear to be well respected, we need to raise £45m in player sales or savings on wages to comply with FFP going into next season. How we manage that I'm not sure, but it's starting to look like we'd best hope that these youngsters of ours are as good as some think they are, as I think they're going to be needed next season.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Dazzle on Tue May 29, 2018 11:22 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:So according to the 'Swiss Ramble' twitter account, who appear to be well respected, we need to raise £45m in player sales or savings on wages to comply with FFP going into next season. How we manage that I'm not sure, but it's starting to look like we'd best hope that these youngsters of ours are as good as some think they are, as I think they're going to be needed next season.

If that figure is remotely true then we’re fucked. That would require sales of devastating volume. Think Grealish, Hourihane, Kodjia. I’d estimate that with Terry, Snodgrass, Onomah, Grabban, Johnstone, Gabby etc leaving that would be around £10-12m a year in wages off the books. Still leaves a big number to find in sales, perhaps worryingly it leaves a figure of around £30m to find which is the figure that Bruce floated for Grealish. I think it’ll finish me with football if Grealish goes just as we’ve got the potential out of him, I couldn’t stand hearing another clubs supporters shouting his name. Somebody at some point will challenge this faux notion of financial fair play, which is anything but fair. It’s straight forward restraint of trade. This is an example of my concern with regards to Xia and perceived wealth. Does anyone think that the owner of Manchester City, for example, would be worrying about financial fair play restraints? They’d simply come up with another mega sponsorship from a family owned business that funnelled whatever was needed into the club. I guess that if nothing else this summer will show everyone the real value of Recon and Tony Xia. We have to hope the optimists are on the right side.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Tue May 29, 2018 12:23 pm

It's been estimated that after all the loans and players at the end of their contract of gone we'll save £10m, so that reduces the deficit to £35m, to make that up, we're either going to have to sell Grealish, or two or three of our other salable assets, which would mean Chester, Hourihane, or Kodjia.

If only we could get rid of the likes of De Laet, Elphick, Gardner, Tshibola, McCormack, Elmohamady, Whelan, Jedinak, Richards and Lansbury, then we'd might be able to get away with selling just one of our big hitters, trouble is it's very unlikely we're going to be able shift enough of them.

The trouble is we need to raise money, but at the same time we also need to bring in a few players if we're to challenge for promotion, I mean at the moment Jed Steer is the only goalkeeper at the club outside of the academy keepers, two of our first choice defenders have already left, then Snodgrass will need replacing, which will add to the deficit we need to make up.

I guess we just have to hope that the club have some clever way of getting around it, but we say similar every season and it never happens, although the shirt sponsorship is up for renewal so maybe they'll do something clever with that. I thought they would have said something by now, to settle the fans down, and give some indication as to our direction next season, but they're kind of leaving us to stew in the dark.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Tue May 29, 2018 5:01 pm

Leicester are being strongly linked to Grealish, and I've just seen it pointed out how cruel and ironic it would be if we were to lose him to them, because we're trying to adhere to FFP, to a team who just completely ignored it, and just paid the fine, something we can't do now because of the rule changes. It's anything but 'fair', on so many levels.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by VTID85 on Tue May 29, 2018 10:12 pm

I honestly haven't known another club talk so much about FFP as we do, both as fans and as staff.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by FoxyAV on Wed May 30, 2018 9:42 am

We've dug our own hole here. We've spunked a load of money on a load of previously excellent players who Bruce has played incorrectly and devalued massively. What are McCormack and Hogan worth now? Sure, McCormack was probably an accident waiting to happen but under Bruce he's been shipped off to the colonies and is probably as happy to come back to us as Snodgrass is to go back to West Ham. Hogan meanwhile was bought by Bruce and while I still think is an excellent player it's either him or Bruce going because Bruce is just wasting his time and he's presumably now worth £4million or so due to not scoring anywhere near enough goals in the last year and a half. Hourihane is still worth what we paid for him but Lansbury hasn't had a good run at all. Let's not even talk about Whelan. Lansbury, Hogan and McCormack cost us around what it sounds like we need to pay off in FFP but are now worth about a third. On the plus side I think both Lansubry and Hogan can do a good job for us under a different manager.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by bruka on Wed May 30, 2018 10:30 am

Wyness and Round are as responsible for this mess as Bruce. Look at what Spurs have done with Kane, the guy is on £100,000 a week which (as ridiculous as it is to say) is peanuts for player of his calibre. He makes his money on a whacking great goal bonus though. Another example is Liverpool having a sliding scale for payment on Keita depending on his performances this season and RB's league position.
Our clowns seem to go into transfer and contract negotions with a "pay them what they want to get them through the door" attitude. It's almost as if we're terrified of missing out on our preferred targets because we don't have a plan B or C to fall back on. Whatever comes of all the FFP stuff when we get back to a position to spend money we have to do so more wisely and take advantage of performance related payments to clubs and players. Villa are still a famous old club and the draw of playing for us should be enough to unsettle a player enough to agitate for a move ... We need to use some of footballs "dark arts" rather than acting like the marks in a con.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Boldfinger on Wed May 30, 2018 11:06 am

The trouble we have had is that we have had to pay over the top wages to get players through the door.
We as fans love villa but to try to get players through the door of a declining club is hard to do.
It's a shame but the hard fact is we had no choice but to give better wages - we are a championship team - no premier league and no European football. - just another championship club.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed May 30, 2018 11:26 am

We didn't need to give stupid wages to the likes of Lansbury, Whelan, Jedinak, and so on, and pay stupid feels like £5m for Tshibola, and however much it was we paid for McCormack and Hogan, Wyness and Round have not only failed in the wages paid, but also with the type of players brought, a lot of it seems to stem from an over reliance on the British transfer market.

We've basically got dinosaurs running the club, if Xia has any sense he'll rip it up and start again, but it seems that Wyness is running the show, so unless Xia has some one independent advising him that's probably not going to happen either, expect some tweet about sticking together in the coming days.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Boldfinger on Wed May 30, 2018 11:31 am

Oh please don't get me wrong we have wasted money hand over fist and sine signings have been a tragedy.
I was just stating the only we could attract 'a better standard of player' lol would be by paying more as we can not rely on our name only.
Even though us fans would walk through fire to play for villa.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by bruka on Wed May 30, 2018 11:52 am

@Boldfinger wrote:Oh please don't get me wrong we have wasted money hand over fist and sine signings have been a tragedy.
I was just stating the only we could attract 'a better standard of player' lol would be by paying more as we can not rely on our name only.
Even though us fans would walk through fire to play for villa.

I don't know about that, i may have overstated our pulling power in terms of being a "big club" as we probably aren't seen that way anymore but if nothing else we are a good stepping stone club for players. How many of our players go on to play for top six teams ? Even now Grealish is being linked with a move to United. You'd think an ambitious young player (Tish for example) might put the chance to play in the spotlight above a higher wage from somewhere he's not going to get noticed.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by Boldfinger on Wed May 30, 2018 11:57 am

It's just a job and mos players are for the here and now rather than the future.
Don't forget they only have short careers - (I Truely hate that statement) especially when a lot of footballers earn I a week or 2 what most of us earn in a year.
It ALL about the money.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by bruka on Wed May 30, 2018 12:50 pm

@Boldfinger wrote:It's just a job and mos players are for the here and now rather than the future.
Don't forget they only have short careers - (I Truely hate that statement) especially when a lot of footballers earn I a week or 2 what most of us earn in a year.
It ALL about the money.

That's not true of all players. Look at Loftus-Cheek going on loan to Palace and Abraham at Swansea. Those guys could quite easily have stuck around the fringes at Chelsea playing FA cup games and sub appearances and collected the same wages. It's just we have a habit of signing mercenaries. Every payment we make to Micah Richards is money down the drain and he doesn't have the decency to terminate his contract.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by FoxyAV on Wed May 30, 2018 1:52 pm

@bruka wrote:Every payment we make to Micah Richards is money down the drain and he doesn't have the decency to terminate his contract.

That's a little unfair on Richards. Bearing in mind players' professional lifespans are short and he made himself unemployable with some rubbish appearances in our last season in the PL why should he walk away from a nice big pension? If someone told me I would be paid £60k per week for the next two years just to turn up at a training ground to be kept in top physical condition I'd jump at the chance.

Do we know why Richards wasn't played last season? I assume he can still do a job at RB, unless his contract specifically says he can't play RB in a league match. With a bit of game time I imagine he'd make an acceptable RB. Not as good as the Scottish Cafu but then who is.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by bruka on Wed May 30, 2018 2:12 pm

@FoxyAV wrote:
@bruka wrote:Every payment we make to Micah Richards is money down the drain and he doesn't have the decency to terminate his contract.

That's a little unfair on Richards. Bearing in mind players' professional lifespans are short and he made himself unemployable with some rubbish appearances in our last season in the PL why should he walk away from a nice big pension? If someone told me I would be paid £60k per week for the next two years just to turn up at a training ground to be kept in top physical condition I'd jump at the chance.

Do we know why Richards wasn't played last season? I assume he can still do a job at RB, unless his contract specifically says he can't play RB in a league match. With a bit of game time I imagine he'd make an acceptable RB. Not as good as the Scottish Cafu but then who is.

If he willing to play at RB and the reason he has been kept out is due to a personal issue with Bruce then i rescind my comment. I suspect though that he has no desire to play for Villa again or football for that matter and is milking us for all he can.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed May 30, 2018 2:13 pm

Richards is absolutely massive at the moment, he isn't in the right kind of shape to be playing football, it would be like playing with ten men. I know it doesn't justify his wages, but apparently he's well like at the club, helps to create a good atmosphere with his personality and is good with the youngsters.

Unfortunately we're stuck with him for another year, but it's not his fault, it's the fault of those that gave him such a ridiculous contract.

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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by FoxyAV on Wed May 30, 2018 2:38 pm

I remember Marc Albrighton talking about Robert Pires and saying he was a massive influence and someone all the academy etc players looked up to as a football legend willing to help them out and give them advice. What of course we need right now is Premier League winner and Villa fan Marc Albrighton signing for the club to impart some of his wisdom to our players the same way Pires did. Plus it would sort out our hole at right wing. I'm definitely in the wrong job.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

Post by The Utterer on Wed May 30, 2018 2:54 pm

Ok here's my view,

FFP is basically there to help small clubs compete and supposedly protect bigger clubs from going under if a wealthy owner "does one" and leaves them in the turd.

What it does not take into account is the ruination of football as you end up with smaller clubs moving upwards but without the fan support structure to justify it.

In other words you will eventually end up with the top leagues being full of half empty stadiums and dozens of dour fixtures which most fans wouldn't want to see or spend their hard earned cash going to watch want.

For example

Man Utd v Villa/Leeds/Forest etc
or
Man Utd v Fulham/Brighton/Huddersfield/Watford/Burnley/Bournemouth Etc etc?

I know which would be the more appealing fixtures to me and i'm sure most neutrals.

That may be harsh on those clubs but that's basically now what is happening to the game because largely of FFP.

It's ruining the game as a spectacle in my opinion and is making a mockery of fan bases, History, stadiums etc.

But it's ok... at least no one will go bust by overspending. Lets just hope the game doesn't disintegrate through lack of interest of huge fan bases up & down the country.

For goodness sake can someone please challenge it as it is wrecking the game in my eyes.
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Re: Financial "Fair" play?

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