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HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by bruka on Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:05 pm

Time for protests gentlemen.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by smetro on Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:36 pm

Grealish to Spurs gaining traction
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:15 pm

Unless Xia refuses to sell the club, then I don't think protests are needed. Seems our financial difficulties are down to laws in China, he can't really do anything about that, all he can do is try and sell us to someone who doesn't face the same restrictions, and us bringing in Birch seems to suggest he's going to try and do that.

The ironic thing is more than likely we'll probably be sold to someone who actually has less money than Xia/Recon, unless we get incredibly lucky. Just have to hope they're a lot better at running a football club than him.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by smetro on Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:25 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Unless Xia refuses to sell the club, then I don't think protests are needed. Seems our financial difficulties are down to laws in China, he can't really do anything about that, all he can do is try and sell us to someone who doesn't face the same restrictions, and us bringing in Birch seems to suggest he's going to try and do that.

The ironic thing is more than likely we'll probably be sold to someone who actually has less money than Xia/Recon, unless we get incredibly lucky. Just have to hope they're a lot better at running a football club than him.

Other than covering the debts we don't need a rich owner. We need someone to run us sensibly and within our means - we have a reasonable squad of players, some talented youth, 17,000 season ticket holders - Sure in the short term we might have to sell some gems - but no reason why we can't be a force in the championship.
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by DelboyVilla on Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:58 am

When you hear stories of JT being paid 100k a week how was that sustainable? Put that together with other high earners like Jedi Whelan Elmo Snodgrass Gabby Hutton and Richards our wage bill must be close to Premier size?
Tax bills don't come out of the blue? I wonder if Xia doesn't want to invest further money? Something needs to be said by the club quickly?

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by big ming on Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:41 am

As per the Times report -why would Xia refuse to pay a £4.5m tax bill and risk a £150m (according to some sources) investment? The only explanation can be the Chinese exchange controls. It makes no sense,otherwise.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:08 am

@RobDorsettSky
Understand Dr Xia is looking for inward investment and is prepared to sell #avfc for right price. Talks with HMRC ongoing. Administration a real concern - mainly cash flow problems in China. Insiders fear fire sale of best players. Poss biggest crisis in club’s history.



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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by De Kuip on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:24 am

Well it's all very interesting isn't it.

I genuinely hoped Xia was the final flushing away of the turd of failure called Randy Lerner. Now it looks like he's possibly just filled the bog up again!

Providing we don't actually go bust or get crippling fines/points deductions, maybe there is a silver lining to all of this.

If Xia was a chancer all along we'll be well rid of him.

I have no doubt Wyness was a con artist so hopefully we'll rid of him also.

I think I've said all I have to say about that sugarbag Bruce so ditto.

Hopefully flush away the remaining shit stains stealing wages from the club.

I really do hope that we get taken over by someone/a consortium that wants the best for Aston villa fc and just as importantly knows how to achieve that. Let's get good footballing people in the right posts, with integrity and a passion to succeed. Let's get a progressive coach and a blend of flair and youth into the playing side. More importantly let's use that flair and youth in a fearless and technically adept way.

I want to see us build a proper foundation for the future and if that means we have to hit rock bottom first (and fuck me I thought we had, but obviously not yet) then so be it.

Ive written hope a lot haven't I? But that's all I have currently in the absence of hard facts/next steps surrounding this situation.

If the above all happens though, and we survive reasonably unscathed as a club, we might well look back to this close season in time to come as the point where the club began the road back to where it should be.

I have to believe that as the alternatives are all pretty dire.
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by DelboyVilla on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:34 am

The whole point of this problem is that we should not as a business be relying on a cash injection from Xia to pay a tax bill? This whole thing smells of bad management all round again? 4-5m debt to the HMRC should not send us into administration as is being suggested! Xia not being able to get money out of China should not affect the day to day running of the club, which paying a tax bill is!

This is far more serious than people think!

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:06 am

If we go into administration, as is being reported as a real possibility, then we go into next season with a twelve points deduction. The thing is there's a chance potential bidders will wait for that to happen, as then they can get the club much cheaper.

A worse case scenario is that club goes into administration, no one buys us, and the club is shut down. Unfortunately we could end up in a position where it's a case of selling to whoever is willing to save us, regardless of their long-term suitability.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by bruka on Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:37 am

The fans need answers. We need to know how this has happened, why it was allowed to happen, what the club are going to do to rectify the situation, are we for sale and are their legitimate bidders ?
Can't believe that it's come to this, thought Xia was the light at the end of the tunnel but we just jump from one disaster to another. This is the situation Jordan was talking about, how did he know about it ? My guess is Wyness was putting it about trying to secure investment for some sort of takeover with him as chairman.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by bruka on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:06 am

Just read that we're currently costing Xia £6mil a month !

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by Dazzle on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:21 am

@bruka wrote:Just read that we're currently costing Xia £6mil a month !

It’s Xia’s own fault, he has made all the decisions over the last 2yrs. He is responsible for Wyness and everything else thereafter, the buck stops with him. Only now do we realise the enormity of the gamble Xia placed on promotion this year, and even had we gone up it’s clear we couldn’t/shouldn’t have spent much.
There was no alternative plan. We now teeter on the edge of the cliff, just a light push from falling into a sea of shit. Xia has turned out to be no better than a desperate Vegas gambler, all words and no substance. His “plans” and decisions coming apart at breakneck speed now. We have to hope that he’s gone quickly and replaced by someone of substance before the situation becomes irretrievable.
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by Dions_Bald_Head on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:27 am

@Dazzle wrote:
@bruka wrote:Just read that we're currently costing Xia £6mil a month !

It’s Xia’s own fault, he has made all the decisions over the last 2yrs. He is responsible for Wyness and everything else thereafter, the buck stops with him. Only now do we realise the enormity of the gamble Xia placed on promotion this year, and even had we gone up it’s clear we couldn’t/shouldn’t have spent much.
There was no alternative plan. We now teeter on the edge of the cliff, just a light push from falling into a sea of shit. Xia has turned out to be no better than a desperate Vegas gambler, all words and no substance. His “plans” and decisions coming apart at breakneck speed now. We have to hope that he’s gone quickly and replaced by someone of substance before the situation becomes irretrievable.  

It's a good point about promotion - can you imagine the damage that would've been done to us trying to sustain a PL campaign?!

At least in the Chamionship we can hopefully tough it out for a season or two (or three) until we're on better footing.
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:35 am

Apparently the 'executive board' are having a meeting this afternoon to discuss how the club moves forward, with June 23rd being a deadline for a number payments the club needs to make.

Surely the only way forward is to find a buyer.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by achilles on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:48 am

It just beggars belief that these people (i.e. Xia and Lerner) call themselves businessmen, they are just charlatans.
If it wasn't so bloody serious I would laugh about it.
I honestly don't think these people actually live in the real world, just a fantasy world of their own making!
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by achilles on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:51 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Apparently the 'executive board' are having a meeting this afternoon to discuss how the club moves forward, with June 23rd being a deadline for a number payments the club needs to make.

Surely the only way forward is to find a buyer.

Sell Grealish is the quick and simple way!
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:57 pm

By the sound of things simply selling Grealish won't solve all our problems, that was back when our only problem was FFP.

I thought the club would have released a statement by now, explaining the situation a bit better, and hopefully telling us that talks are underway to sell the club.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:07 pm

Mirror article, makes for grim reading...

Aston Villa owner, Dr Tony Xia, has been bankrolling the former European Champions from the moment he set foot inside Villa Park.

Each month, money would arrive from China, into Villa's bank account to make good the shortfall in normal trading operations.


That has happened, without fail, for the past two years.

Only last month, it didn't. April's money was received. May's wasn't. There was no sign of it turning up. It still hasn't.

Incredibly, that is all it has taken to bring this great football club – this cornerstone of the English game - to its knees.

One missed monthly payment. It's a sizeable one. Aston Villa are running a £5-6m monthly deficit on their current outgoings. But still.
Tony Xia with Steve Bruce (Image: Neville Williams)
And now that has set in motion a chain of events that is likely to see the club change ownership. That is one scenario.

The other is far more unpalatable. Administration – or, if a position with HMRC is not met – a winding up order may be issued.

No more Aston Villa. Doesn't bear thinking about.
Obviously, promotion to the Premier League would have solved the on-going cash crisis.

No wonder Xia, who sat stony-faced at Wembley as Fulham cavorted around the pitch just ten days ago, was unable to show any other emotion.

His world was just about to come crashing around him.

Perhaps it was a taste of things to come. Xia did not sit with his chief executive, Keith Wyness, at the play-off final. Behind the scenes, they had been seated on separate tables.

Strange, you might think, for the two chief decision-makers not to be joined at the hip – to not share the inevitable joy or pain that was about to be inflicted upon them.

But the writing was on the wall.

A few weeks earlier, Wyness, along with director of football Steve Round, had delivered a presentation to Xia at Bodymoor Heath, outlining the two courses of action that would be taken once Villa had qualified for the end-of-season lottery English football calls the play-offs.
One was promotion to the Premier League, the other staying right where Villa were, in the Championship.

Xia received the news. Didn't blink. Didn't move a muscle. Did not utter one single word.

The three-minute silence was eventually broken by Rongtien He, Xia's eyes and ears at Villa Park.

The result of that meeting led Wyness to confess later to a high-level colleague: “Anything other than promotion is not an option.”

By the time the final whistle blew at Wembley, the chief executive knew that he had to act. He had to take action as per his fiduciary duties as a director of the club.

He knew that the money from the Far East had not been received into Villa's bank account. He had to do something. And swiftly.

Steve Bruce looks dejected (Image: Getty Images Europe)
Late last week, with the club's payroll due on Friday, Wyness was on the phone, trying to raise the cash to pay it.

Burnley were contacted. Villa were due another chunk of money from Ashley Westwood's £5m transfer later this month.

They took a hit but the money turned up and the staff were paid. Wyness knew that this could not keep going indefinitely.

Any director who has an inkling that the club is trading insolvently must take advice. That was incumbent upon him.

As a director, he could also put the club into administration. It was that which has led Xia to trashing Wyness's reputation after Villa released a statement suspending their chief executive yesterday afternoon.
The next bill was from HMRC for £4.2m. That was the lever for Xia to use to put Wyness on gardening leave.

The authorities have been as aggressive as you might expect them to be in recovering that cash.

In just over three weeks time, Villa are due to make another payroll payment.

The bills just keep coming. And the cash position is little short of horrendous.

Anyone seeking to take on Villa as a going concern will have to make good a staggering £70m shortfall during the course of the next 12 months.
Due to existing contractual commitments the budget is showing a £25m deficit for 2019-20.

That is a £100m hole that needs plugging.

The parachute payment from the Premier League has dropped to £15m. The cash call is growing, not slowing.

Anyone interested in Villa will have to show a commitment to meeting those costs.

At this rate, Xia won't be seeing much back for his £150m gamble during the past two seasons.

He will be lucky to see the club change hands for £1 because someone has got to make good on his reckless calls.
Due to the football creditors' rule, the likes of Micah Richards, Pierluigi Gollini, Ross McCormack – none of whom kicked a ball in anger last season – will all have to be paid their monstrous salaries.

Xia will be lucky if he trousers anything from this.

He could, of course, raise some cash from selling assets.
Jack Grealish is the main one. A public auction might top £30m for the playmaker who has the world at his feet.

That would meet some of the on-going costs. Buy him some time, potentially, to off-load the club to a buyer.
Villa will auction off Grealish (Image: Clive Mason)
And what of Steve Bruce, the manager who drew together a disparate dressing-room and took Villa to within 90 minutes of diverting this disaster from public attention?

His future has been a subject of debate on message boards and in social media.

He will stay put. He's a tough cookie, Bruce. And anyway, paying him off is a long way down the club's list of priorities.

For now, Xia's got bigger issues to sort out. Like keeping Aston Villa afloat.

Unless someone very rich wants to buy us, it's looking very very ominous.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:12 pm

I'm no financial expert, but administration seems an inevitability now.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by bruka on Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:34 pm

So we now need someone to come in with at least £200mil on the table right away with ways and means of bending FFP (shirt and stadium sponsorship etc). Hate to say it but we are circling the drain. Xia and Wyness should be hung, drawn and quartered for bringing our club to its knees. Christ even Doug seems like a great owner now.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by Dazzle on Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:34 pm

I’m afraid to say that, based on the figures doing the rounds, administration is nailed on. Barring a new and wealthy owner in the next week or two we are done. Perhaps Xia can convince someone to make a cash investment for half ownership or similar? Failing that it’s a panic sale of the likes of Grealish, Chester, and Kodjia.
We require a minor miracle I’m afraid, a division drop is looking likely.
It’s not impossible that we could do a “Rangers” and go bust and have to start again at the bottom tier of the football league. Nothing is out of the question.
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:14 pm

Without naming names, StanCollymore suggesting that Wyness purposely tried to push the club into administration, so he could be part of a consortium who bought the club on the cheap.

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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by The Utterer on Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:15 pm

What a complete joke of a club... I will say though that the Mirror just love making everything sound as bad as is possible....They fail to mention any income which goes against the 5 - 6 m a month running costs. As though Xia is simply paying it all out of his own pocket.

So it looks like 75m a year is what it currently costs to run this club. Off that you must have to take any savings on wages (Eg Terry 3m+), player sales, parachuts payments, TV money, Prize money, advertising/sponsorship revenue etc etc. So the 5-6m a month being flown in from China is literally that daft papers attempt to make it as doom & gloom as physically possible.

Yes the club is in serious mire but i can't stand these articles which pick out all the gloomy bits, condense them and then go public with them. They are basically affecting the image of the club, upsetting & stressing a lot of people and even potentially impacting potential buyers with their "gloomy cloud reporting".

Lets be honest the club was on a downward curve now anyway due to FFP restrictions alone so was facing years of struggle with or without all this.

As for the Newcastle, Sha, West Brom & Wolves fans sticking the boot in well that shows they're total lack of class. Newcastle fans are basing their hatred on a single flag which some numpty put up at VP when they got relegated. I think they all need therapy if they have held a grudge like that over something so petty for so long.
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Re: HMRC Issue winding up order Against Villa

Post by bruka on Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:30 pm

@The Utterer wrote:What a complete joke of a club... I will say though that the Mirror just love making everything sound as bad as is possible....They fail to mention any income which goes against the 5 - 6 m a month running costs. As though Xia is simply paying it all out of his own pocket.

So it looks like 75m a year is what it currently costs to run this club. Off that you must have to take any savings on wages (Eg Terry 3m+), player sales, parachuts payments, TV money, Prize money, advertising/sponsorship revenue etc etc. So the 5-6m a month being flown in from China is literally that daft papers attempt to make it as doom & gloom as physically possible.

Yes the club is in serious mire but i can't stand these articles which pick out all the gloomy bits, condense them and then go public with them. They are basically affecting the image of the club, upsetting & stressing a lot of people and even potentially impacting potential buyers with their "gloomy cloud reporting".

Lets be honest the club was on a downward curve now anyway due to FFP restrictions alone so was facing years of struggle with or without all this.

As for the Newcastle, Sha, West Brom & Wolves fans sticking the boot in well that shows they're total lack of class. Newcastle fans are basing their hatred on a single flag which some numpty put up at VP when they got relegated. I think they all need therapy if they have held a grudge like that over something so petty for so long.

My understanding is that the £5-6M is after taking into account all incomings like TV money and Parachute payments. Terry, Snoddy and Johnstones wages will come off so you can probably deduct a million. Still an absolutely shocking way to run a football club. The part about Wyness giving a presentation and Xia just staring after speaks volumes about the planning and forethought put into all our business dealings.

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