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Where to we go from here?

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 1:28 pm

I'm pretty sure that Recon have actually put in a lot more money into us than Fosun have Wolves, and not just in the transfer market either, the accounts apparently showed that they'd put £50m into some of our subsidiary businesses. But yes Fosun probably do blow Recon out of the water money wise, as they do most club's owners, but whether they're going to spend big out of their own pockets is another question, they've just been able to exploit the market because of the previously mentioned fact that they part own Mendes' football agency.


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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 1:33 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I'm pretty sure that Recon have actually put in a lot more money into us than Fosun have Wolves, and not just in the transfer market either.

Really ?
Depends what you mean by put in - Xia paid a bigger purchase price and then spent £80m on players in his first season. Since then the net spend has been very low- it seems a given we won't have a net spend this summer so over 3 seasons thats around £27m per season.

If the wolves board are as good as there word - they will probably be £27m on a single player this summer
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 1:45 pm

Money has also gone into buying land around Bodymoor Heath, and like I said the accounts apparently show that another £50m has been put into the club's subsidiary businesses, I don't understand that side of things I'm just going of what an accountant who posts on a few other Villa forums has said.

We didn't spend last summer because of FFP, the club actually tried to get the rules relaxed so we'd be able to spend this summer, but I think that proposal was blocked by a vote.

As for Wolves they probably will be spending big on a single player in the summer, but we'd be doing the same if we'd have got promoted, in the Premier league clubs can afford to that regardless of the owners wealth, because of the Sky money.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 1:53 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Money has also gone into buying land around Bodymoor Heath, and like I said the accounts apparently show that another £50m has been put into the club's subsidiary businesses, I don't understand that side of things I'm just going of what an accountant who posts on a few other Villa forums has said.

We didn't spend last summer because of FFP, the club actually tried to get the rules relaxed so we'd be able to spend this summer, but I think that proposal was blocked by a vote.

As for Wolves they probably will be spending big on a single player in the summer, but we'd be doing the same if we'd have got promoted, in the Premier league clubs can afford to that regardless of the owners wealth, because of the Sky money.

Well Wyness at the turn of the year seemed to imply we wouldn't.

FFP is actually pretty flexible - it doesn't go on the actual accounts - but a separate statement, you can carry debt provided you show a plan that you an afford - in certain circumstances infrastructure investment is excluded from the losses.

I don't think WBA or stoke will break the bank to get back to the prem - and we still imo have more financial clout than most championship clubs. The club IMO is on a sound enough footing to push for promotion again next year.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 1:57 pm

Next season we're going to have back Elphick, Tshibola, Gardner and even Gil who was meant to be leaving permanently this summer but there was a clause in the deal that said if Deportivo were relegated then they would be obliged to buy him. If Bruce leaves, the new manager might be willing to give McCormack another chance as well, although I guess the club will be hoping that some US team comes in for him, as getting him off the wage bill would save us a lot of money.


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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 2:05 pm

@smetro wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Money has also gone into buying land around Bodymoor Heath, and like I said the accounts apparently show that another £50m has been put into the club's subsidiary businesses, I don't understand that side of things I'm just going of what an accountant who posts on a few other Villa forums has said.

We didn't spend last summer because of FFP, the club actually tried to get the rules relaxed so we'd be able to spend this summer, but I think that proposal was blocked by a vote.

As for Wolves they probably will be spending big on a single player in the summer, but we'd be doing the same if we'd have got promoted, in the Premier league clubs can afford to that regardless of the owners wealth, because of the Sky money.

Well Wyness at the turn of the year seemed to imply we wouldn't.

FFP is actually pretty flexible - it doesn't go on the actual accounts - but a separate statement, you can carry debt provided you show a plan that you an afford - in certain circumstances infrastructure investment is excluded from the losses.

I don't think WBA or stoke will break the bank to get back to the prem - and we still imo have more financial clout than most championship clubs. The club IMO is on a sound enough footing to push for promotion again next year.

Wyness actually said that even in the Premier league you have to be mindful of FFP, he didn't say we wouldn't spend big, in fact he implied that we'd be able to spend up to £120m, and bearing in mind in the same interview he also said that we wouldn't be signing anyone in the January window, and then we went and signed Tuanzebe and Grabban, so I think he was being cautious as well.

As for this summer I think a few might be in for a bit of a shock as to how hard FFP hits us, unless the club have been working on some masterplan so we can get around it. But as long as we can hold onto a few of our prized assets and are clever with the loan market (something we can learn from Wolves) then we still might have a chance of promotion, most important thing is getting the managerial situation right.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by Dazzle on Sun May 27, 2018 2:15 pm

The fact is that a 70tr old Neil Warnock has gotten Cardiff into the premier league, the same Neil Warnock who most think of as outdated thug of a manager. He has done it with what many may view as cast off players from other clubs. There is no silver bullet way of gaining promotion. For me I think we missed the cut for changing the manager towards the end of 2017, I’m not sure I see a candidate out there now that I’m enticed by. We know Bruce is limited with his brand of football, but we also know he is well connected in terms of getting other clubs to loan us players. There’s lots of conversations to be had in the coming weeks, it did seem to me that the players were behind Bruce in those games. My fear is that should we part ways with Bruce then the like of Grealish will follow him soon after. I’d sooner Bruce stayed if it meant Grealish staying as he is integral to our hopes in my opinion, if Grealish goes then there is no case for Bruce staying. So many ifs, buts, maybes. It would be more than useful if the club spoke with the players before they all jet away to stew over what might have been. Fulham and Jokanovic were in this position last summer and look at them now. Like I’ve already said, I think we missed the obvious chance to change manager last year, for me it looks less obvious now. Xia and Wyness have a crucial few weeks ahead of them to get next season mapped out. I don’t envy them.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by VTID85 on Sun May 27, 2018 4:55 pm

Do people legitimately see Grealish leaving? Maybe I'm naive, but I would be incredibly surprised if he does.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 5:10 pm

@smetro wrote:

I just would. Sure there is case for sacking - for me we don't score enough goals - and that problem has followed Bruce at his various clubs - and the pattern is it gets worse not better.
Hop into the boardroom though and I think they will think differently. Bruce knows the club and has said he wants to stay - he got us a 4th place finish - he has largley wheeled and dealed in the transfer market. Mostly though there is no stand out candidate to replace him. It is also pretty rare for play off final managers to get the sack.

My guess rightly or wrongly is that Bruce starts season

LOL i almost forgot who I was talking to. Someone who hated RDM and wanted a "british manager" like Pearson. Not a fan of foreigners right? No-wonder you're sticking up for the failure that is Bruce Laughing .

And the fact that you think there is "no stand out candidates" speaks more to your lack of knowledge of other managers than anything else. Bruce's job was to get us promoted, and he's failed two seasons in a row. "Playoff final" talk means nothing, he still failed and I'd be very surprised if he's still with us next season. To me that would simply mean the board are waving the white flag and are happy to accept mediocrity.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 5:14 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I'm pretty sure that Recon have actually put in a lot more money into us than Fosun have Wolves, and not just in the transfer market either, the accounts apparently showed that they'd put £50m into some of our subsidiary businesses. But yes Fosun probably do blow Recon out of the water money wise, as they do most club's owners, but whether they're going to spend big out of their own pockets is another question, they've just been able to exploit the market because of the previously mentioned fact that they part own Mendes' football agency.

That's a total myth. The Wolve's fans love to say they have "the second richest owner in England" which is a load of bollocks. Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Fulham's owner are all worth more than 4 billion. Secondly, Recon are doing deals with other nations goverments, do you see Fosun doing the same thing? I sure haven't.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 5:20 pm

@Dazzle wrote:The fact is that a 70tr old Neil Warnock has gotten Cardiff into the premier league, the same Neil Warnock who most think of as outdated thug of a manager. He has done it with what many may view as cast off players from other clubs. There is no silver bullet way of gaining promotion. For me I think we missed the cut for changing the manager towards the end of 2017, I’m not sure I see a candidate out there now that I’m enticed by. We know Bruce is limited with his brand of football, but we also know he is well connected in terms of getting other clubs to loan us players. There’s lots of conversations to be had in the coming weeks, it did seem to me that the players were behind Bruce in those games. My fear is that should we part ways with Bruce then the like of Grealish will follow him soon after. I’d sooner Bruce stayed if it meant Grealish staying as he is integral to our hopes in my opinion, if Grealish goes then there is no case for Bruce staying. So many ifs, buts, maybes. It would be more than useful if the club spoke with the players before they all jet away to stew over what might have been. Fulham and Jokanovic were in this position last summer and look at them now. Like I’ve already said, I think we missed the obvious chance to change manager last year, for me it looks less obvious now. Xia and Wyness have a crucial few weeks ahead of them to get next season mapped out. I don’t envy them.

LOL are you seriously suggesting that Grealish, who has been a Villa fan his whole life, would kick up a fuss if the club sacks potato head?

People need to get real. In Bruce's first season here we were within three points of the top six in December and he failed to get us into the playoffs. And now this year he's failed to get us over the line again. RDM was sacked after eleven games, and yet people want to give this utter clown a chance? Why? Because he's English? Rolling Eyes
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by Dazzle on Sun May 27, 2018 5:33 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@Dazzle wrote:The fact is that a 70tr old Neil Warnock has gotten Cardiff into the premier league, the same Neil Warnock who most think of as outdated thug of a manager. He has done it with what many may view as cast off players from other clubs. There is no silver bullet way of gaining promotion. For me I think we missed the cut for changing the manager towards the end of 2017, I’m not sure I see a candidate out there now that I’m enticed by. We know Bruce is limited with his brand of football, but we also know he is well connected in terms of getting other clubs to loan us players. There’s lots of conversations to be had in the coming weeks, it did seem to me that the players were behind Bruce in those games. My fear is that should we part ways with Bruce then the like of Grealish will follow him soon after. I’d sooner Bruce stayed if it meant Grealish staying as he is integral to our hopes in my opinion, if Grealish goes then there is no case for Bruce staying. So many ifs, buts, maybes. It would be more than useful if the club spoke with the players before they all jet away to stew over what might have been. Fulham and Jokanovic were in this position last summer and look at them now. Like I’ve already said, I think we missed the obvious chance to change manager last year, for me it looks less obvious now. Xia and Wyness have a crucial few weeks ahead of them to get next season mapped out. I don’t envy them.

LOL are you seriously suggesting that Grealish, who has been a Villa fan his whole life, would kick up a fuss if the club sacks potato head?

People need to get real. In Bruce's first season here we were within three points of the top six in December and he failed to get us into the playoffs. And now this year he's failed to get us over the line again. RDM was sacked after eleven games, and yet people want to give this utter clown a chance? Why? Because he's English? Rolling Eyes

You probably need to wind your neck in, seems to me that you’re acting like an angry teenager who’s determined to piss everyone off. Get over it, we lost!
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 5:34 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:

I just would. Sure there is case for sacking - for me we don't score enough goals - and that problem has followed Bruce at his various clubs - and the pattern is it gets worse not better.
Hop into the boardroom though and I think they will think differently. Bruce knows the club and has said he wants to stay - he got us a 4th place finish - he has largley wheeled and dealed in the transfer market. Mostly though there is no stand out candidate to replace him. It is also pretty rare for play off final managers to get the sack.

My guess rightly or wrongly is that Bruce starts season

LOL i almost forgot who I was talking to. Someone who hated RDM and wanted a "british manager" like Pearson. Not a fan of foreigners right? No-wonder you're sticking up for the failure that is Bruce Laughing .

And the fact that you think there is "no stand out candidates" speaks more to your lack of knowledge of other managers than anything else. Bruce's job was to get us promoted, and he's failed two seasons in a row. "Playoff final" talk means nothing, he still failed and I'd be very surprised if he's still with us next season. To me that would simply mean the board are waving the white flag and are happy to accept mediocrity.

Don't get so excited - All I am saying is I don't think Bruce will leave - surely I am entitled that opinion ??????. I have said on at least 2 occasions that I am not sure if that is the right or wrong decision. But I just think he will start next season.

I have no knowledge of foreign managers, as I have admitted on several occasions. If you do great - lets hear them.

Yes I wanted Pearson mainly because I didn't want RDM. Pearson was also the choice of the interim board  Brian Little, Bevington, Mervyn King - so I don't believe I was alone in that, Indeed a couple of posts back someone has suggested him this time around - are you going to harangue that poster for the next 3 years ?

In summary:-  I THINK BRUCE WILL BE OUR MANAGER NEXT SEASON -whether thats good or bad is not what I am saying - just my opinion as to what will happen

serious question AT - do you actually go to the games ?
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 5:42 pm

@Dazzle wrote:

You probably need to wind your neck in, seems to me that you’re acting like an angry teenager who’s determined to piss everyone off. Get over it, we lost!

And i think you need to stick that dummy back in your mouth and stop talking absolute tripe!!...your point about Grealish was utterly laughable, and I had to let you know about that, sorry if it hurt your little feelings .
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 5:44 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I'm pretty sure that Recon have actually put in a lot more money into us than Fosun have Wolves, and not just in the transfer market either, the accounts apparently showed that they'd put £50m into some of our subsidiary businesses. But yes Fosun probably do blow Recon out of the water money wise, as they do most club's owners, but whether they're going to spend big out of their own pockets is another question, they've just been able to exploit the market because of the previously mentioned fact that they part own Mendes' football agency.

That's a total myth. The Wolve's fans love to say they have "the second richest owner in England" which is a load of bollocks. Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Fulham's owner are all worth more than 4 billion. Secondly, Recon are doing deals with other nations goverments, do you see Fosun doing the same thing? I sure haven't.

Recon are doing deals with other nations goverments, ?


Source ?

Let me get this clear are you saying Recon is more profitable than Fosun ?
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 5:49 pm

@smetro wrote:
Don't get so excited - All I am saying is I don't think Bruce will leave - surely I am entitled that opinion ??????. I have said on at least 2 occasions that I am not sure if that is the right or wrong decision. But I just think he will start next season.
Did I say you weren't entitled to your opinion? All Am saying Is you have a history of backing poor British managers, and you appear to be doing the same thing now out of hope rather than expectations.



I have no knowledge of foreign managers, as I have admitted on several occasions. If you do great - lets hear them.
I've already named them In a previous post, go check it out.



Yes I wanted Pearson mainly because I didn't want RDM. Pearson was also the choice of the interim board  Brian Little, Bevington, Mervyn King - so I don't believe I was alone in that, Indeed a couple of posts back someone has suggested him this time around - are you going to harangue that poster for the next 3 years ?
You were adamant that Pearson was the man for us, then he went and nearly got Derby relegated....



In summary:-  I THINK BRUCE WILL BE OUR MANAGER NEXT SEASON -whether thats good or bad is not what I am saying - just my opinion as to what will happen

serious question AT - do you actually go to the games ?
What does me going to games or not have to do with the discussion?
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 5:52 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:
Don't get so excited - All I am saying is I don't think Bruce will leave - surely I am entitled that opinion ??????. I have said on at least 2 occasions that I am not sure if that is the right or wrong decision. But I just think he will start next season.
Did I say you weren't entitled to your opinion? All Am saying Is you have a history of backing poor British managers, and you appear to be doing the same thing now out of hope rather than expectations.



I have no knowledge of foreign managers, as I have admitted on several occasions. If you do great - lets hear them.
I've already named them In a previous post, go check it out.



Yes I wanted Pearson mainly because I didn't want RDM. Pearson was also the choice of the interim board  Brian Little, Bevington, Mervyn King - so I don't believe I was alone in that, Indeed a couple of posts back someone has suggested him this time around - are you going to harangue that poster for the next 3 years ?
You were adamant that Pearson was the man for us, then he went and nearly got Derby relegated....



In summary:-  I THINK BRUCE WILL BE OUR MANAGER NEXT SEASON -whether thats good or bad is not what I am saying - just my opinion as to what will happen

serious question AT - do you actually go to the games ?
What does me going to games or not have to do with the discussion?

Nothing - if you don't want to answer ......fine.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 6:27 pm

@smetro wrote:
@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I'm pretty sure that Recon have actually put in a lot more money into us than Fosun have Wolves, and not just in the transfer market either, the accounts apparently showed that they'd put £50m into some of our subsidiary businesses. But yes Fosun probably do blow Recon out of the water money wise, as they do most club's owners, but whether they're going to spend big out of their own pockets is another question, they've just been able to exploit the market because of the previously mentioned fact that they part own Mendes' football agency.

That's a total myth. The Wolve's fans love to say they have "the second richest owner in England" which is a load of bollocks. Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Fulham's owner are all worth more than 4 billion. Secondly, Recon are doing deals with other nations goverments, do you see Fosun doing the same thing? I sure haven't.

Recon are doing deals with other nations goverments, ?


Source ?

Let me get this clear are you saying Recon is more profitable than Fosun ?

Recon main source of business is doing business with Governments with their 'Smart City' building, not saying they have as much money as Fosun, but they do work very closely with governments as that's the nature of the 'Smart City' business, Xia is also a special advisor on 'City Planning' to a number of municipal governments in China on 'city planning' as well.


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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by VTID85 on Sun May 27, 2018 6:39 pm

Fuck me there are some right personalities out at the moment. Laughing
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by Dazzle on Sun May 27, 2018 8:39 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@Dazzle wrote:

You probably need to wind your neck in, seems to me that you’re acting like an angry teenager who’s determined to piss everyone off. Get over it, we lost!

And i think you need to stick that dummy back in your mouth and stop talking absolute tripe!!...your point about Grealish was utterly laughable, and I had to let you know about that, sorry if it hurt your little feelings  .

I thought long and hard about whether I should reply, and what swung it was me remembering that it’s you who emails the club with your instructions as to what Tony should be doing..........and think anyone there actually gives a fuck, joker! Laughing at You
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 8:51 pm

Just hope the club makes a statement asap about what's going on, and for it not to be just PR. We can't just leave things stewing, we've got a lot to sort out within a small time-frame with the World Cup and transfer window closing early this year.


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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 8:51 pm

Tensions are understandably running high. Chill out dudes - Aug 4 we go again ........(unless we are on Sky!!!!!)
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 8:56 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Just hope the club makes a statement asap about what's going on, and for it not to be just PR. We can't just leave things stewing, we've got a lot to sort out within a small time-frame with the World Cup and transfer window closing early this year.


As i have have said i think Bruce will stay - and would expect a statement to that effect by Tues/Weds ......If it goes beyond that then perhaps the club are making a change.  As you say lots to do - not much time - things will become clearer next week.....it June 1 on Friday .....june 21 next seasons fixtures are released
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 9:38 pm

@Dazzle wrote:

I thought long and hard about whether I should reply, and what swung it was me remembering that it’s you who emails the club with your instructions as to what Tony should be doing..........and think anyone there actually gives a fuck, joker! Laughing at You

LOL yeah, it's so "bad" that I happen to be in a position where I can send some of the fans views to someone who is on the Villa books and has direct access to Tony!!!..WHAT A CRIME!! Laughing
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 9:42 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Just hope the club makes a statement asap about what's going on, and for it not to be just PR. We can't just leave things stewing, we've got a lot to sort out within a small time-frame with the World Cup and transfer window closing early this year.

I suspect Tony and his team will be having talks today and tomorrow as to what to do next. I'm 100% sure it was Wyness and Round who advised him not to pull the trigger earlier in the season, so I'm really wondering if he's thinking about their positions too. Because let's be honest, what have they done since they arrived but create a strategy that relied on being "British" and "experienced"? We need to create a whole new structure at the club now imo so I hope he's looking at all options.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

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