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Where to we go from here?

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Thu May 31, 2018 9:16 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Yes, I don't think he'd be desparate to sell us, he's said himself that owning us has actually helped his other businesses in China despite us being in the Championship, and it's also helped him get in with Birmingham City Council on the 'Smart Cities' side of things... and plans are in place for the redevelopment of the training ground, that's not pie in the sky the plans are online as is the planning permission which was recently granted, and of course it's doubtful that Recon would have sponsored the training ground, if they planned on selling up on failure to get promoted, going up didn't exactly look a guarantee.

Only thing that makes me wonder if he might sell is the new rules in China which make it harder to move money out that country, and he's been having a few problems with Lotus Health. To be honest another thing that's crossed my mind is that he might consider selling a stake in the club to someone else, to take away some of the burden off himself, but at the same time keep the connections he's made in other businesses.

I though the redevelopment of the training ground was to accommodate HS2 ?

I wish people would stop talking about Smart cities - and show us something of substance. It seems to give Xia a lot of kudos for very little end product.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by VIlla68 on Thu May 31, 2018 10:47 am

First time on here folks, generally sit back and read, quiet busy at moment so to make this quick but wondering if anyone could enlighten me to rules in relation to third party ownership of players etc
Just trying to get my head around Villa having to fork out for players. A Company buys them and loans them to villa, or maybe I'm clutching at straw's. Thanks all the same.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu May 31, 2018 12:53 pm

@smetro wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Yes, I don't think he'd be desparate to sell us, he's said himself that owning us has actually helped his other businesses in China despite us being in the Championship, and it's also helped him get in with Birmingham City Council on the 'Smart Cities' side of things... and plans are in place for the redevelopment of the training ground, that's not pie in the sky the plans are online as is the planning permission which was recently granted, and of course it's doubtful that Recon would have sponsored the training ground, if they planned on selling up on failure to get promoted, going up didn't exactly look a guarantee.

Only thing that makes me wonder if he might sell is the new rules in China which make it harder to move money out that country, and he's been having a few problems with Lotus Health. To be honest another thing that's crossed my mind is that he might consider selling a stake in the club to someone else, to take away some of the burden off himself, but at the same time keep the connections he's made in other businesses.

I though the redevelopment of the training ground was to accommodate HS2 ?

I wish people would stop talking about Smart cities - and show us something of substance.  It seems to give Xia a lot of kudos for very little end product.

You do realise a 'Smart City' isn't an actual city, no one's claiming that Recon are buiding cities across the globe, a 'Smart CIty' is just implementing technology, it's like a 'smart home' but on a larger scale, and even though it has the word 'City' in it, it can just be work done in say one street or one small area. As for proof, members of the Indian, and Indonesian Governments and have tweeted about 'Smart City' deals that they and Recon/Xia are involved with, Xia himself tweeted about signing a deal with Birmingham CIty Council, with a photo of them all there together shaking hands, you can't get much more proof than that.

What there isn't proof of is that Recon just buy and sell companies, so they're just going to sell us, as some people claim, I can't think of one company they've sold since taking us over, except for Teamax, and even then they still have a 'controlling interest' and Xia is still Chairman. Seems like some people just fear the worst then make stuff up to confirm to support it.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu May 31, 2018 2:19 pm

Besides how successful or what his other businesses are doing is irrelevant to us at the moment, the fact of the matter is that he's not doing a very good job with us. All we can really do is hope that he can change that, and wait and see what these 'changes' are and hope for the best.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Thu May 31, 2018 2:44 pm

It's been five whole days since the playoff debacle, and all that has happened is Xia has put out some stupid statements that don't really tell us anything. This is the true test of his reign imo. Lerner, for all his faults, had us in the top six three years in a row, top ten four years in a row, and we went to two cup finals, plus two semi-finals. He also took action when a manager was clearly not working. But what has Xia done? Higher a dinosaur of CEO who's only claim to fame is being at Everton when they got top four. Allowing a novice to become our director of football and then allowed the parachute payments to be spent on rubbish. Then he panicked, and sacked one manager after five minutes but has then contrived to keep another for nearly two years despite him showing us that he can't get over the line.

IF the trio of Bruce, Wyness and Round remain at this club then we can forget it, progress will not be forthcoming. Villa has been In my life for more than two decades, but luckily I have other teams in different spots that I'm extremely passionate about too. Sadly we're in pretty much the worst era this club has ever faced, with an owner who seems to be as clueless as the last one. Fosun had a plan, Xia did just put all his eggs in the Wyness/Round/Bruce basket and he's lost that gamble. and who pays for it? We do.

We're gonna see what kind of man he is now and what his true ambitions consist of.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Thu May 31, 2018 2:50 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:
@smetro wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Yes, I don't think he'd be desparate to sell us, he's said himself that owning us has actually helped his other businesses in China despite us being in the Championship, and it's also helped him get in with Birmingham City Council on the 'Smart Cities' side of things... and plans are in place for the redevelopment of the training ground, that's not pie in the sky the plans are online as is the planning permission which was recently granted, and of course it's doubtful that Recon would have sponsored the training ground, if they planned on selling up on failure to get promoted, going up didn't exactly look a guarantee.

Only thing that makes me wonder if he might sell is the new rules in China which make it harder to move money out that country, and he's been having a few problems with Lotus Health. To be honest another thing that's crossed my mind is that he might consider selling a stake in the club to someone else, to take away some of the burden off himself, but at the same time keep the connections he's made in other businesses.

I though the redevelopment of the training ground was to accommodate HS2 ?

I wish people would stop talking about Smart cities - and show us something of substance.  It seems to give Xia a lot of kudos for very little end product.

You do realise a 'Smart City' isn't an actual city, no one's claiming that Recon are buiding cities across the globe, a 'Smart CIty' is just implementing technology, it's like a 'smart home' but on a larger scale, and even though it has the word 'City' in it, it can just be work done in say one street or one small area. As for proof, members of the Indian, and Indonesian Governments and have tweeted about 'Smart City' deals that they and Recon/Xia are involved with, Xia himself tweeted about signing a deal with Birmingham CIty Council, with a photo of them all there together shaking hands, you can't get much more proof than that.

What there isn't proof of is that Recon just buy and sell companies, so they're just going to sell us, as some people claim, I can't think of one company they've sold since taking us over, except for Teamax, and even then they still have a 'controlling interest' and Xia is still Chairman. Seems like some people just fear the worst then make stuff up to confirm to support it.

I do realise that about Smart Cities - but think a lot of people don't.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by FoxyAV on Thu May 31, 2018 3:08 pm

@VIlla68 wrote:First time on here folks, generally sit back and read, quiet busy at moment so to make this quick but wondering if anyone could enlighten me to rules in relation to third party ownership of players etc
Just trying to get my head around  Villa having to fork out for players. A Company buys them and loans them to villa, or maybe I'm clutching at straw's. Thanks all the same.

I haven't got a clue but welcome!
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by Dazzle on Thu May 31, 2018 3:18 pm

As things stand Xia has bought the club, spent all the parachute money in a gamble that he could buy his way back into the premier league, failed to do so, and now releases a statement letting us know he’s a businessman. What businessmen usually mean when they state they’re a businessman is that they won’t be risking any of their own money. He’s spent everything Villa were due and now we’re on our own to deal with the fallout.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu May 31, 2018 3:49 pm

I blame Round and Wyness more than Xia, it's their policies on transfer, recruitment, wages, and hiring of managers that have gotten us into this mess, but now it's evident that they've failed us, it's up to Xia to do something about that, if he just leaves things as they are, then the blame has to shift to him.

Unfortunately it's looking like things will be left as they are, I can see it being a very depressing summer, with Bruce, Wyness and Round staying and some of our better players leaving... Only thing that will lift the gloom is us winning games when the season starts, as there's nothing to get excited/hopeful about between now and then... Unless we're in for a surprise with these 'changes' that Xia talks about.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Thu May 31, 2018 4:17 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I blame Round and Wyness more than Xia, it's their policies on transfer, recruitment, wages, and hiring of managers that have gotten us into this mess, but now it's evident that they've failed us, it's up to Xia to do something about that, if he just leaves things as they are, then the blame has to shift to him.

Unfortunately it's looking like things will be left as they are, I can see it being a very depressing summer, with Bruce, Wyness and Round staying and some of our better players leaving... Only thing that will lift the gloom is us winning games when the season starts, as there's nothing to get excited/hopeful about between now and then... Unless we're in for a surprise with these 'changes' that Xia talks about.

Well Xia spoke of "big changes", so we're just gonna have to hope that he means what he says. The three bandits simply cannot stay together. Wyness is just as much a dinosaur as Bruce, that's why he fought for Bruce to keep his job when the pressure is on. Keith isn't comfortable dealing with a younger guy or a foreign coach because they aren't part of the "old boys club". Meanwhile Round is just the same. Look at the coaches he worked under? Moyes, Big Sam, Mcclaren etc, and we wonder why they contrived to get rid of RDM so quickly?

Their transfer policy was also Mon personified. Old, experienced British players and no creativity in the market. The strategy failed once and it has come back to haunt us again because Xia hired the same boring, English idiots who don't have a clue about progressive football. Good luck to Xia if he thinks them two, plus a manager who claimed he "doesn't do tactics", is gonna take us forward.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by Dions_Bald_Head on Thu May 31, 2018 4:19 pm

Maybe Dr Xia can't make a comment about Bruce's future because Bruce might've taken some time out to decide what he wants to do - he's had a tough few months & he may be mulling on whether to quit. If Bruce has even hinted at it then it's worth letting him come to a decision rather than jumping to a dismissal.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by bruka on Thu May 31, 2018 4:34 pm

To be fair i would have a lot of respect for Bruce if he came out and said something to the effect of "i've had a tough time of it of late and this team is going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up and it's too much for me to take on, thanks for the opportunity"

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu May 31, 2018 4:55 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I blame Round and Wyness more than Xia, it's their policies on transfer, recruitment, wages, and hiring of managers that have gotten us into this mess, but now it's evident that they've failed us, it's up to Xia to do something about that, if he just leaves things as they are, then the blame has to shift to him.

Unfortunately it's looking like things will be left as they are, I can see it being a very depressing summer, with Bruce, Wyness and Round staying and some of our better players leaving... Only thing that will lift the gloom is us winning games when the season starts, as there's nothing to get excited/hopeful about between now and then... Unless we're in for a surprise with these 'changes' that Xia talks about.

Well Xia spoke of "big changes", so we're just gonna have to hope that he means what he says. The three bandits simply cannot stay together. Wyness is just as much a dinosaur as Bruce, that's why he fought for Bruce to keep his job when the pressure is on. Keith isn't comfortable dealing with a younger guy or a foreign coach because they aren't part of the "old boys club". Meanwhile Round is just the same. Look at the coaches he worked under? Moyes, Big Sam, Mcclaren etc, and we wonder why they contrived to get rid of RDM so quickly?

Their transfer policy was also Mon personified. Old, experienced British players and no creativity in the market. The strategy failed once and it has come back to haunt us again because Xia hired the same boring, English idiots who don't have a clue about progressive football. Good luck to Xia if he thinks them two, plus a manager who claimed he "doesn't do tactics", is gonna take us forward.

I took those 'big changes' to mean changes to the playing staff, as he went on to say that it's not what anybody wants, unless he thinks we're all going to be disappointed if he fires Wyness, but then I guess it can be read in many ways.

One thing to note is that Wyness hasn't said a thing since the defeat on Saturday, you'd have thought he would have said something through the media, or even on his twitter, he's usually quite vocal on there after games, you'd think that would be even more so the case after a play-off final, even if it was just to say hard luck or to thank the fans. I'm wondering if Xia might be bringing in someone else in to make the football decisions and letting that person decide Bruce's fate.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Thu May 31, 2018 5:04 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:

I took those 'big changes' to mean changes to the playing staff, as he went on to say that it's not what anybody wants, unless he thinks we're all going to be disappointed if he fires Wyness, but then I guess it can be read in many ways.

One thing to note is that Wyness hasn't said a thing since the defeat on Saturday, you'd have thought he would have said something through the media, or even on his twitter, he's usually quite vocal on there after games, you'd think that would be even more so the case after a play-off final, even if it was just to say hard luck or to thank the fans. I'm wondering if Xia might be bringing in someone else in to make the football decisions and letting that person decide Bruce's fate.

Now that would be brilliant. A new CEO would then have the power to get rid of Round and Bruce. And though folks try to ridicule me, I can assure you I communicated with one of Xia's guys and made sure they were fully aware of Nicola Cortese. IF we got him in then boy would things get exciting.

Another name we haven't heard from is Steve Round!!..who was all on the telly giving it the big "look at me" before the cup final.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu May 31, 2018 5:21 pm

Cortese was saying quite recently that he wanted to get back into football, and I suppose we'd be a similar project to what he had at Southampton when he first joined.

I think we could do with an Arsene Wenger type figure at the club whether it be managing the team or as a director of football, he's said that he turned down the Real Madrid job because he wants a bigger challenge, unfortunately I don't think he means quite as big as the challenge he'd have here though.

Another name to possibly think about that's available is Steve Walsh.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu May 31, 2018 5:37 pm

But as with the new manager thread, all these mentioning of names and getting our hopes up, will just make it all the more depressing if it turns out that nothing's going to change, and we're stuck with Bruce, Wyness and Round, which going by the statement seems more likely than not, as has been said we're clinging on to the word 'changes' and hoping it hints at what many of us want.

What I think is more likely to happen is that Bruce quits of his own accord, probably due to personal reasons.

Basically all this wild guessing, illustrates how useless the statement was, as it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know, and made us even more confused as to what the future plans might be.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by The Utterer on Thu May 31, 2018 7:53 pm

Well my interest level in all things AVFC is diminishing by the day i have to say. The feeling last season was that we were a little short of promotion form and although i did have a few pangs of hope going into the final i never truly expected us to come through.

Now though it feels like the club is a bit of a joke tbh. Can't see anything materialising next season other than excuses as to why it didn't happen as we drop several places and could even really struggle. I genuinely don't know if i'm up for that.

no doubt time will tell but (Near) belief has been replaced by severe doubt in our household sadly.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu May 31, 2018 10:03 pm

Can't really blame anyone for having a gloomy outlook at the moment, players having to be sold, no money even after sales to reinvest in the team, in reality looks like Bruce, Wyness are staying, which in turn would beg the question has Xia lost interest already. We're basically in a similar position to how were when Lerner started losing interest only then at least we were a Premier league side, and he attempted to make changes, even if we couldn't spend all that much, then we eventually went down, and if we're not careful it could happen again...

Meanwhile Leeds are reportedly in talks Marcelo Bielsa, I bet his wages wouldn't even be as much as Bruce's.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by STO67 on Thu May 31, 2018 10:19 pm

It makes sense that, if we have to save money, it won't just be playing staff who are removed from the club. I suspect that Xia is looking far and wide as to how he might save money, but still try to be competitive. Round, Agnew might both be vulnerable and Villa go without this technical Director crap and just let the Manager and the CEO do the business.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by gaffer85 on Thu May 31, 2018 11:04 pm

I've been thinking bout this where do we go from here question
The way I see we have to sack Bruce I know we came close but that was not what he was employed for he has failed and by doing it his way has left us severely up shit creek without a paddle.
Because of him we will probably lose the best prospect we have had in years and what makes it worse he actually wants to be here but might be forced out.
I was looking at the squad we possibly have next year and the players in it will not suit Bruce's style of play we need a ball playing coach.
Who that could be is a mystery personally I would approach Wenger with a low salary wage and a massive bonus if promoted he also said he wasn't finished in football so worth a punt probably unrealistic I know but you'll never know unless you ask.
If Wenger turned us down I would probably take a punt on mellberg after all he is one of our own and is doing very well so far in Sweden with two consecutive promotions to his name.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by bruka on Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 am

I would sack Bruce, Round and Wyness. Then i would keep Agnew as first team coach (rather than manager) with the stipulation he has to take on someone like Mellberg, Laursen or maybe Barry as his number two. Then i would bring in a DoF who knows what they are doing to oversee transfers, contracts, etc.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by FoxyAV on Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:00 am

@bruka wrote:I would sack Bruce, Round and Wyness. Then i would keep Agnew as first team coach (rather than manager) with the stipulation he has to take on someone like Mellberg, Laursen or maybe Barry as his number two. Then i would bring in a DoF who knows what they are doing to oversee transfers, contracts, etc.

I kind of like your line of thinking.

Bruce seems to have been the one bringing in the loans and really, they've been pretty good. With the exception of Onomah who I think would have been significantly better as the DM (with both Hourihane and Lansbury in front of him - both happy to get forward and support the striker/be bodies in and around the box - while Grealish was out injured) I think Snodgrass, Tuanzebe, Grabban and not necessarily on the pitch Terry have done really well for us. Would we have brought them in without Bruce? Tough to tell. We're certainly going to need some decent loans, especially in January if our strikers all break legs or something.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by Wriggle on Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:18 am

Having read the statement again, I think the change he is referring to is no more signing ‘experience’ on a high wage with little to no sell on value. We’ve done that quite often over the past 10years as he alludes to, and now we’ve failed to get the promotion we’re left with very little sell on value as most are old and unwanted on that wage.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:36 am

I personally think the changes he's referring into is the club having to stop spending money, has he says that it's changes that no one wants to see happen, he also says that it's been going on for the last ten years, so there's a clue there as well, basically he just wants the club to spend what it makes.

I'm resigned now to Bruce staying, Wyness will probably come out of the woodwork sometime next week, and give us his usual song and dance about stability and how we'll be a force next season despite cutbacks, and everything's under control, pretty much what he said last season.

There are so many on social media, that have fallen for the stability line, wanting Bruce to stay, that that will give Wyness the easy ride he needs to keep his Bruce in a job.


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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by big ming on Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:16 pm

Following on from my post last week about how the Championship is not a bad place for the Villa just now, I would add something else. There seems to be two schools of thought. One is that Bruce got us close with his "style" - it would be expensive to change and involve more upheaval and therfore, he should stay. The second is that we need to recruit a progressive footballing type instead of more Bruce "eye bleeding" football.
For myself, I think football is there to entertain the fans. I would rather have a manager with an open and expansive style who goes for the win the vast majority of times. OK, so every now and then it will go pear-shaped and we will lose 2-3 or something but, by Christ we will have seen something worth watching. If Bruce could produce a Wolves type performance consistently, I would give him another chance but when he reverts to the regular,dour "hack it out of defence and sod possession" I draw the line. I want to be entertained - end of. Any progressive manager with a reputation for playing the beautiful game, beautifully will do for me.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

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