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Where to we go from here?

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Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat May 26, 2018 9:18 pm

If we were likely to keep much of the same squad then I could see some sense in the argument for keeping Bruce, but even then I'd be against it, but as Bruce himself has admitted that the squad will look very different next season because of finances it's a moot point anyway. There's going to be something of a rebuild, to what degree we can't be sure, but unfortunately we're going to lose some of our better players.

I think we're going to have to take advantage of the loan market again, only difference being that we won't be able to afford the wages of experienced Premier league players this time around, It might be worth us trying to replicate what Wolves have done to some degree, not necessarily getting an agent on board, but scouring the European leagues for young players who might be willing to come to the Championship to put themselves in the shop window.

The biggest thing is replacing Bruce with someone who can work with young players and get them playing exciting attacking football, we're going to need bring someone in who can utilize the strengths of players like Green, Hepburn-Murphy, Davis.

But I'm fearful that they won't even replace Bruce, personally I wouldn't just be replacing Bruce, but also bringing in someone else in other than Wyness to make the football decisions, as has been said the club really needs bringing into the 21st century.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by FoxyAV on Sat May 26, 2018 9:28 pm

If Bruce can't get some of the best players in the Championship playing decent football what hope would we have with him trying to build a squad? He has to go. Xia would be mad to keep hold of him. Even if we kept this squad I wouldn't want him anywhere near it.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat May 26, 2018 9:56 pm

I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to be willing to give him another chance, their reasoning being seems to be that 'he's given us our club back', for me him putting together a group of players who actually care, whilst a good thing, shouldn't be enough in of itself for him to keep his job, most managers given resources can do that, but it's results that count.

I think the biggest thing we need to look at is that Bruce doesn't really have a track record of bringing through and getting the best out of youngsters, something we're probably going to have to do next season, whether it be with our own, or loan signings.

I thought he might step down, but apparently he's said he's said he'd like to stay if the board allows it.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by UnclePanda on Sat May 26, 2018 10:00 pm

Where do we go from here?
Absolutely nowhere. 10 more years in the Championship and the next generation of fans not knowing us be a Premier League team, ala Leeds.

Ill probably change my answer in a few weeks, but thats how I feel now
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat May 26, 2018 10:48 pm

Well us being stranded in the Championship for years to come is the fear now, now we don't have a financial advantage we could even do what Man City, Leeds, Forest, Wednesday, Wolves, Leicester, Southampton, and Sunderland have all done before us, and that's drop down to league one, that might seem dramatic, but those list of names show that it can happen to the best of clubs once their financial advantage is taken away, we need a plan not only to make sure that that doesn't happen but also one that allows us to still challenge for promotion...

Wyness said at the start of season, that failure to get promoted won't be acceptable and that there will be no excuses for failure as everything is in place for the club to succeed... So now he needs to come out and explain what happened, and tell us straight what kind of mess the club is in, and how we're going go about things going forward, we need something to give us hope that we're we'll be challenging for promotion next season.




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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat May 26, 2018 10:57 pm

Someone needs to challenge FFP it's completely and utterly unfair, and could be the ruin of this club. I'm not holding my breath, but I really do hope the club have worked out some clever ways of working around it, as long as the owner is good for it, he/she/they should be able to spend what he wants.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by Terry Derry on Sat May 26, 2018 11:27 pm

Sorry but Bruce is finished here.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat May 26, 2018 11:55 pm

Well Bruce doesn't seem to think so, he's already talking about trying to convince Grealish to stay, having discussions with Terry about his future, chatting with the board over FFP, and about 'trying again' next season. My fear is that Wyness is going to come out and give us the old stability line, as an excuse for keeping Bruce.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 12:25 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Well Bruce doesn't seem to think so, he's already talking about trying to convince Grealish to stay, having discussions with Terry about his future, chatting with the board over FFP, and about 'trying again' next season. My fear is that Wyness is going to come out and give us the old stability line, as an excuse for keeping Bruce.

He told Rednapp during the season that he would be sacked if he didn't win at Barnsley, and now he's failed to get the job done two seasons in a row then I can see no option but to send him packing. I'm currently writing an email that should find it's way to Tony, and I'll be making a solid argument as to why I believe it's in the club's best interest to dump Wyness, Round and Bruce, because the fact of the matter is they have all failed at their jobs. We need to create our own identity now. Wolves, Fulham and Huddersfield all had their own philosophies of how they played the game and it got them promoted. We need to follow this trend now.


Last edited by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 12:44 am

Well I hope they take notice of your email, but I wouldn't hold your breath on Round and Wyness departing, on that side of things I think the best we can hope for is that someone else comes in to take some of the footballing decisions away from Wyness.

I've not been impressed with Round, especially when he talks about his 'Villa Engine', when he goes into details it's not about tactics, but about players getting stuck in and being committed, if we're going to develop a style of play it should be about tactics, movement off the ball and such, not things that should be a given at any club, regardless if you give them a name like 'the Villa engine'.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 2:46 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Well I hope they take notice of your email, but I wouldn't hold your breath on Round and Wyness departing, on that side of things I think the best we can hope for is that someone else comes in to take some of the footballing decisions away from Wyness.

I've not been impressed with Round, especially when he talks about his 'Villa Engine', when he goes into details it's not about tactics, but about players getting stuck in and being committed, if we're going to develop a style of play it should be about tactics, movement off the ball and such, not things that should be a given at any club, regardless if you give them a name like 'the Villa engine'.

I've shared ideas with them before and have gotten positive feedback. Whether they listen to the ideas I've shared remains to be seen, but all I've done is present the facts about Wyness, Round and Bruce, and why the club should seriously consider making drastic changes. We stick with these guys for another year then we should expect the same failure.

Nicola Cortese (to replace Wyness) and the two Brentford technical directors Rasmus Ankersen and Phil Giles, are the guys I suggested they look at. They are proven in the championship and have a philosophy of encouraging good football, getting good managers and buying smartly in the market. Now we're really gonna see if Xia is ambitious or not with his actions because failure should NEVER be rewarded.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 6:14 am

It's hard to gauge where Xia stands with us, he doesn't seem to tweet as much as he used to, or attend as many games, Wyness said recently that we're just a small part of his business empire, so I don't think us failing to reach the Premier league hits him all that much financially, or has a detrimental affect on his other businesses, he said himself that owning us has opened up doors for Recon, despite us not being in the top division.

Hopefully he cares enough to do something though, can't let things keep festering on the way they have been.



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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by FoxyAV on Sun May 27, 2018 7:50 am

@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Well Bruce doesn't seem to think so, he's already talking about trying to convince Grealish to stay, having discussions with Terry about his future, chatting with the board over FFP, and about 'trying again' next season. My fear is that Wyness is going to come out and give us the old stability line, as an excuse for keeping Bruce.

He told Rednapp during the season that he would be sacked if he didn't win at Barnsley, and now he's failed to get the job done two seasons in a row then I can see no option but to send him packing. I'm currently writing an email that should find it's way to Tony, and I'll be making a solid argument as to why I believe it's in the club's best interest to dump Wyness, Round and Bruce, because the fact of the matter is they have all failed at their jobs. We need to create our own identity now. Wolves, Fulham and Huddersfield all had their own philosophies of how they played the game and it got them promoted. We need to follow this trend now.

Bruce's 'The Villa Way' as far as I can tell is to lose disappointingly with silly tactic(s) and the same mistakes again and again. How long ago was Bruce (the manager, the one who is supposed to tell everyone what to do) moaning about the playing too deep and leaving the striker stranded? I think it was in the first Boro match. We didn't play every ball long yesterday but I think Grabban actually held on to one (!). Bruce has singularly failed to involve strikers in our matches, he's played the wrong players at the wrong time (often in the wrong positions) and is so terrified of change of any kind he's been the one who's stopped us going up.

Talk about Terry staying is crazy. What does he offer? The goal yesterday came in on his side, where were his captaincy skills? Where was his leadership when Bruce couldn't get our players further up the pitch in the first half or scoring anything in the second? We need a solid central defender, not a wage drain. I assume, too, that Bruce is going to pay Terry out of his own pocket. Crazy.

We need a manager who's going to work with the likes of O'Hare, Blackett-Taylor, Green and Grealish and not use loan players and old men with PL experience (anyone please remind me why we need this in the Championship?). We have some great players and presumably we'll have Bruce's legacy of Jedi and Whelan on the books, draining wages. We have Hourihane and Lansbury in the same position - both are proven Championship players, even if Hourihane goes we have one of the best current Championship midfielders ready to go. Unless, of course, you're Bruce. If he stays we'll spunk our money on Terry (to weaken the defence) and more old men on loan from the PL.

We need to keep hold of Kodjia, Grealish and Chester. Hutton, Elmo, Hogan, Jedi, Whelan and a bunch more can go. I genuinely believe had Kodjia started yesterday we'd have seen a different game entirely. Bye bye Bruce. Xia's a businessman, not a playboy spunking his dad's money. If Bruce worked for me I'd sack him for gross inadequacy.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 8:55 am

be very surprised if Bruce is sacked. I am easy either way - sure its easy to say anyone but Bruce. but the likes of Dean Smith fill me with dread.

Nathan Jones would be my choice ...but even that is a massive gamble. Bruce gets to start next season for me.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by AstonThriller on Sun May 27, 2018 9:17 am

@smetro wrote:be very surprised if Bruce is sacked. I am easy either way - sure its easy to say anyone but Bruce. but the likes of Dean Smith fill me with dread.

Nathan Jones would be my choice ...but even that is a massive gamble. Bruce gets to start next season for me.

Why would you be "very surprised" if Bruce is sacked? Are you condoning failure? He was meant to get us promoted last season, he failed, he was meant to get us promoted this season, he failed. How exactly could the owners contrive to keep him now?
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by Jae1411 on Sun May 27, 2018 9:45 am

Still trying to pick myself up this morning. Fearing the worst, the ffp thing really bothers me as surely in any other industry it would be a restriction of trade and until the club come out and actually tell us what's going on we're all going to continue fearing the worst. There are rumours we might have to sell the training ground but surely if that's the case Dr T can buy it for Recon and lease it back somehow.

It's a really tough morning this morning but hopefully the club come out and put us straight very soon and tell us where we are and what is going to have to happen.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by bruka on Sun May 27, 2018 10:21 am

For me Bruce is completely incapable of rebuilding a team in the way that we're going to need to. To be honset i couldn't give you a name at the moment (would love Marcelo Gallardo but no chance). Think we may need to go outside the box with this new appointment like Laursen or Carew, just someone who gives a shit who's not stuck in the dark ages of football.
Think Grealish will get bought given that the lads ultimate goal is England and we probably couldn't turn down an offer of aroud 30 mill. Johnstone won't be coming back next season as he will probably have an eye on England too and Prem football is obviously what's required. I would like to see Hogan, Whelan and Taylor sold for the maximum price we can get (unfortunately the people we have in charge of this are muppets so unless Wyness and Round go too it ain't gonna happen). Unforunately Chester will probably be snapped up by a lower half Prem team and Terry's off too so a whole new central defence will be needed.
So as it is we are going to need someone to come in and get the best from the likes of Siegrist, Bree, O'Hare and Davis while cherry picking the best available talent from the lower leagues (it can be done, look at Vardy). Our next step is massive and it should be giving Bruce the boot.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by DelboyVilla on Sun May 27, 2018 10:45 am

As said earlier up the page Bruce can't get the most expensive squad in the championship to play decent football so where we go from here does not include Bruce! First half yesterday was typical Bruce and where we lost the game!

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by VTID85 on Sun May 27, 2018 12:31 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Well Bruce doesn't seem to think so, he's already talking about trying to convince Grealish to stay, having discussions with Terry about his future, chatting with the board over FFP, and about 'trying again' next season. My fear is that Wyness is going to come out and give us the old stability line, as an excuse for keeping Bruce.

He told Rednapp during the season that he would be sacked if he didn't win at Barnsley, and now he's failed to get the job done two seasons in a row then I can see no option but to send him packing. I'm currently writing an email that should find it's way to Tony, and I'll be making a solid argument as to why I believe it's in the club's best interest to dump Wyness, Round and Bruce, because the fact of the matter is they have all failed at their jobs. We need to create our own identity now. Wolves, Fulham and Huddersfield all had their own philosophies of how they played the game and it got them promoted. We need to follow this trend now.

Tell me to mind my own business, but I am curious as I'm sure others probably are too so please don't read this as an attack just a request for clarification - you mention emailing the Dr and have not been shy about mentioning communications between you and the club previously, what actually is your position? Purely a fan chancing his arm sending a few emails? A fan with a more direct relationship with the club? If the former, why would the club pay attention?

Again, this is pure curiosity and if you don't wish to share then that's fine.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 12:50 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:be very surprised if Bruce is sacked. I am easy either way - sure its easy to say anyone but Bruce. but the likes of Dean Smith fill me with dread.

Nathan Jones would be my choice ...but even that is a massive gamble. Bruce gets to start next season for me.

Why would you be "very surprised" if Bruce is sacked? Are you condoning failure? He was meant to get us promoted last season, he failed, he was meant to get us promoted this season, he failed. How exactly could the owners contrive to keep him now?

I just would. Sure there is case for sacking - for me we don't score enough goals - and that problem has followed Bruce at his various clubs - and the pattern is it gets worse not better.
Hop into the boardroom though and I think they will think differently. Bruce knows the club and has said he wants to stay - he got us a 4th place finish - he has largley wheeled and dealed in the transfer market. Mostly though there is no stand out candidate to replace him. It is also pretty rare for play off final managers to get the sack.

My guess rightly or wrongly is that Bruce starts season
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by big ming on Sun May 27, 2018 12:59 pm

Perhaps we should consider emulating Wolves and finding a super agent with a bunch of Champions League standard players on his books who are prepared to come to Villa (all with-in "fair play", of course). Surprised Xia hasn't thought about it, considering that the Chinese owners at Wolves have just completely out-flanked him this year.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by smetro on Sun May 27, 2018 1:06 pm

@big ming wrote:Perhaps we should consider emulating Wolves and finding a super agent with a bunch of Champions League standard players on his books who are prepared to come to Villa (all with-in "fair play", of course). Surprised Xia hasn't thought about it, considering that the Chinese owners at Wolves have just completely out-flanked him this year.

The wolves owners blow xia out of the water moneywise. They also quite easily appear to have bypassed FFP.
When we briefly moved into 2nd place - Wyness was talking about sensible spending should we get promoted. I honestly don't think the money is there in the sort of quantities some people expect.
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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by big ming on Sun May 27, 2018 1:10 pm

@DelboyVilla wrote:As said earlier up the page Bruce can't get the most expensive squad in the championship to play decent football so where we go from here does not include Bruce! First half yesterday was typical Bruce and where we lost the game!
I said a couple of months back that,even if we got to the play-off's, we would never go up under Bruce. He very nearly proved me wrong but,even if he had, the football for 85% of the time made your eyes bleed. Two good footballing sides and one team of well organised journeymen,playing not unattractively, have gone up. We have not achieved promotion and, being honest, we never deserved to. We have to appoint a First Team Coach who has the ability to coach the skills and apply the appropriate tactics that enable us to become a footballing side as opposed to a dour bunch of stoppers which I would label as "anti-football".

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by big ming on Sun May 27, 2018 1:13 pm

[quote="smetro"]
@big ming wrote:Perhaps we should consider emulating Wolves and finding a super agent with a bunch of Champions League standard players on his books who are prepared to come to Villa (all with-in "fair play", of course). Surprised Xia hasn't thought about it, considering that the Chinese owners at Wolves have just completely out-flanked him this year.

The wolves owners blow xia out of the water moneywise. They also quite easily appear to have bypassed FFP.
When we briefly moved into 2nd place - Wyness was talking about sensible spending should we get promoted. I honestly don't think the money is there in the sort of quantities some people expect. [/quote
I thought, and I may be wrong, that the key players came on loan with the object of getting Wolves promoted. Of course, they will now have the money to make them permanent.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun May 27, 2018 1:14 pm

With Wolves they had an advantage in that their owners Fosun happen to own a big stake in Mendes' agency (Gestifute), so they had a big advantage. If it was as easy as just hooking up with a super agent, and getting players on the cheap I'm sure everyone would be trying to do it.

But we can learn from what Wolves have done this season, and that lesson is that you don't need British players or managers to succeed in this league, with the right scouting there are probably some really good loans to be had from the continent, that would offer us good value for money.

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Re: Where to we go from here?

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