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Match Thread v Fulham away

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:36 pm

Always going to happen. Awful line-up

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by smetro on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:39 pm

Most worrying thing is up front. Hogan seems to have gone back to normal. I can't see where the goals are coming from.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:52 pm

@smetro wrote:Most worrying thing is up front. Hogan seems to have gone back to normal. I can't see where the goals are coming from.

Doesn't help when you lose your two most creative players, and  Bruce replace them with two athletes (and that's being nice to Birkir and loanee's creative ability). 

It was a huge mistake, and this is why O'Hare should have gotten way more playing time. Both the Man Utd and spurs lad will arguably cost us promotion. Stupid stupid signings. Green would also have been a better option imo.

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by De Kuip on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:52 pm

Problem with that team today was that it always looked like if they scored we'd not manage to level things. I had hope at 1-0 but very little now.
Bloody bad luck that the one game we needed full strength for and we go and lose Jack and Albert.
I think quite a few people had us down to lose this and probably best to write it off and concentrate on the games coming up.
Cardiff winning is a pisser- is it me or does it seem like they are always at home? Do they actually play away games!?
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by smetro on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:54 pm

Joppe84 wrote:
@smetro wrote:Most worrying thing is up front. Hogan seems to have gone back to normal. I can't see where the goals are coming from.

Doesn't help when you lose your two most creative players, and  Bruce replace them with two athletes (and that's being nice to Birkir and loanee's creative ability). 

It was a huge mistake, and this is why O'Hare should have gotten way more playing time. Both the Man Utd and spurs lad will arguably cost us promotion. Stupid stupid signings. Green would also have been a better option imo.

Really don't get the love for o'hare - where was he against Peterbrough ?

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Villa_Dan on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:00 pm

Runs always have to come to an end and this was always going to be a tough game even at full strength. Not sure what Bruce could have done differently. Fulham away with the expectations of replacing Grealish was not the game for OHare, Green was the only player with an argument to be involved today.

Need to bounce back on Tuesday and remember that Cardiff are still to come to VP meaning it is still to play for!
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Saunders82 on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:06 pm

It was very even until they scored then we ran out of ideas, and the less said about the free kick by Johnstone the better, as it has been said by others we needed to be a full strength today to get anything, they were, still a long way to go.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by AstonThriller on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:09 pm

@Villa_Dan wrote:He's playing Tuanzebe at RB and Elmo pushed forwards. Snoddy swapping wings for today.

Not that bad really. Not ideal but that's better than what I had expected when I looked at the line up on paper.

And Bruce is playing Thor as a centre midfielder. Does he not know that he is the Icelandic Messi and should be bombing up the wing tearing up their right back? Quick genius, get a message to Brucie that you know better!!!

And that worked out real well for us didn't it DUMMY?!!!..now bore off and go spit your mouthpiece at someone who gives a f#ck about your wailing!!!  Laughing


Last edited by AstonThriller on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:15 pm

The team should have been left exactly as it was with like for like replacements coming in for Grealish and Adomah, and possibly Tuanzebe for Elmohamady, all the changes, and players swapping positions cost us, the line-up showed that we were too scared, something I feared when listening to Bruce's press conference yesterday, I can only imagine how defensive he'd have us lining up if we did somehow manage to go up.

Only real positive is that we have a game in a few days time to get back on track, but Preston are one of the form teams in the division at the moment and that game is now a must win.

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by AstonThriller on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:23 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:The team should have been left exactly as it was with like for like replacements coming in for Grealish and Adomah, and possibly Tuanzebe for Elmohamady, all the changes, and players swapping positions cost us, the line-up showed that we were too scared, something I feared when listening to Bruce's press conference yesterday, I can only imagine how defensive he'd have us lining up if we did somehow manage to go up.

Only real positive is that we have a game in a few days time to get back on track, but Preston are one of the form teams in the division at the moment and that game is now a must win.

There will be many twists and turns between now and the end of the season. Going second with fifteen games to go means nothing. Just like it means nothing with Cardiff claiming the position again. After today we've now played every single side who is in the top eleven away from home. Now our nearest rivals are gonna have to come to VP.

Also, it's these kinds of games that make me question if we should keep Bruce even if we go back up. He had a chance to keep things way more simple but went for mass confusion and the result was failure.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by achilles on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:35 pm

What upsets me the most is the manner of how we lose. Absolutely no positivity in the starting lineup which was reflected in our overall play. We had 37% possession, that is truly shocking! We just look like a rag tag and bob tail sort of side put together by drawing players names out of a bag!

Apparently Grealish and Adomah are doubtful for Tuesday, which worries me intensely as the team was a shambles today!

Still we move on, plenty of points still to play for and it starts Tuesday, hopefully with a more balanced and adventurous side.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:46 pm

@smetro wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:
@smetro wrote:Most worrying thing is up front. Hogan seems to have gone back to normal. I can't see where the goals are coming from.

Doesn't help when you lose your two most creative players, and  Bruce replace them with two athletes (and that's being nice to Birkir and loanee's creative ability). 

It was a huge mistake, and this is why O'Hare should have gotten way more playing time. Both the Man Utd and spurs lad will arguably cost us promotion. Stupid stupid signings. Green would also have been a better option imo.

Really don't get the love for o'hare - where was he against Peterbrough ?  

I personally rate him from what I've seen, but my point of including him today (and Green for that matter), was that we needed creativity and directness after losing Adomah and Jack. Fielding players out of position for the sake of including them pisses me off. 

Secondly we don't really know what these lads can do until they are given a fair crack. 

Today we didn't behave like a top team and it cost us three points. This negative rubbish is exactly why I want Bruce gone either way.

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Villa_Dan on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:51 pm

Johnstone dropped an absolute clanger for their 2nd
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Saunders82 on Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:28 pm

Joppe84 wrote:
@smetro wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:
@smetro wrote:Most worrying thing is up front. Hogan seems to have gone back to normal. I can't see where the goals are coming from.

Doesn't help when you lose your two most creative players, and  Bruce replace them with two athletes (and that's being nice to Birkir and loanee's creative ability). 

It was a huge mistake, and this is why O'Hare should have gotten way more playing time. Both the Man Utd and spurs lad will arguably cost us promotion. Stupid stupid signings. Green would also have been a better option imo.

Really don't get the love for o'hare - where was he against Peterbrough ?  

I personally rate him from what I've seen, but my point of including him today (and Green for that matter), was that we needed creativity and directness after losing Adomah and Jack. Fielding players out of position for the sake of including them pisses me off. 

Secondly we don't really know what these lads can do until they are given a fair crack. 

Today we didn't behave like a top team and it cost us three points. This negative rubbish is exactly why I want Bruce gone either way.

Green is injured (hamstring) out for a bit, so lets give it a rest hey. lol!
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by FoxyAV on Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:40 pm

Tuanzebe looked great, a bit gangly like Grealish was when he started playing in the first team. He already looks head and shoulders better than our other two right backs at defending although it will be interesting to see how he does getting forward. Far and away our MOTM.

It looked like a typical Villa match from the first half of the season where we ground out a goalless first half (albeit one where neither team looked that threatening) and then lost it at the start of the second half after the opposition manager has had 15 minutes to bang his players' heads together. The first goal was a shame but I think we could have recovered from it were it not for Johnstone's absolute clanger.

Grabban looked a bit shit really. Johnstone seemed to be getting fed up with Snodgrass and Elmo on the wings in the first half and wasn't fast enough getting the ball out. Once Grabban was on I think he was in space for a good run where the ball never came and then that was that. He started marking his defender - at one point Johnstone was looking for somewhere to send the ball and Grabban was hanging around in central defence making sure his defender didn't try to get away while there was a huge hole waiting for him to run into.

I'm not sure Hourihane did anything, Jedi looked good and picked up what looked like an unfair yellow for a 50-50, Hogan spent the match chasing down back passes to the goalie and almost nothing else, Onomah tried to get past his men and mostly succeeded but is in no way a winger, Snodgrass looked dangerous about twice, no one really shone although Thor worked his arse off and looked quite good and Hutton put in a load of effort and did ok.

Tuanzebe had no competition for MOTM, which was a shame.

It did feel like Snodgrass and Elmo were a waste of time in the first half, I'd rather have seen us minimalise changes by having Thor replace Albert and Lansbury come in alongside Jedi with Hourihane playing ahead of them. And honestly without Grealish playing we should have put Davis on instead.

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:29 am

To be fair the performance of Zebe came at the cost of the team performance. He should never have started. Stupid stupid management.

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by FoxyAV on Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:26 am

Joppe84 wrote:To be fair the performance of Zebe came at the cost of the team performance. He should never have started. Stupid stupid management.

I was talking to a few people before the match and we couldn't work out how Bruce would set up the starting 11. Which I found a bit odd, that a group of 11 players

He was there to mark Sessegnon and did a very good job. The alternative would have been Elmo so we sacrificed attacking threat for a better defence. Which in itself was a risk and quite a big one bearing in mind the team was a bit screwed without Grealish and Adomah.

There was a plus side though, I said before the match I'd like to see Bruce and his support team try to change things (like substituting a player to go from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2) during the match and that's exactly what happened. Like I said before though Grabban didn't do his job and needs some time on the training pitch with Hogan.

I too would like to see O'Hare play, and have this outlandish idea that the U23s should be trained the same way as the first team (er, defenders look up or not before hoofing, attacking players on the wings do a short run before cutting in and midfielders are there as a shield when the striker turns out to not be tall or close enough to control a ball in the air and to try to score from rebounds) and should be able to slot in to fill places on the first team, wherever we have holes where we don't have direct replacements for positions.

In the first half Elmo and Snodgrass were either completely nullified or just not there. In the second half when Onomah came in on the left wing and Snodgrass returned to the right they didn't produce any crosses I can think of for the strikers, they continued to try to run past players/cut in. The only time we looked properly threatening (aside from a couple of times Snoddy cut in successfully) was when Hogan picked up the ball and Grabban was ahead of him, running towards the goal. It all went pear shaped as Hogan passed to where Grabban wasn't. I'm not sure how Grabban usually plays but can't help think he too plays up front on his own.

Which leads me back to U23s. Fulham are currently the most dangerous team in the Championship and Bruce could well have set up defensively and gone for the draw, hoping for a lucky goal. What we had instead though was a half-hearted attempt to stitch together something from what was available. Plus when the goalie did have the ball the players weren't a) either trying to make space to take a ball rolled out and b) weren't running into space/out wide for him to punt long. Grabban marking his defender was ridiculous.

I'd much rather Bruce had set us up defensively - see my last post: Thor, Hourihane, Jedi, Lansbury, Snodgrass in midfield and (so he could hold up play better) Davis up front than do what he did and not play O'Hare where Hourihane looked a bit lost and Thor on the left (since he plays there for Iceland anyway). The players looked a bit lost and detached from each other. Johnstone had a proper go at Snodgrass at one point in the first half while someone was injured and being treated. I can't help think he wasn't giving him the options when he had the ball. And frankly every time Johnstone did have the ball he was looking to send it somewhere and killed any advantage we might have on the break by holding onto it and waiting for anyone to make themselves available.

What we didn't have throughout the match was the interplay between Hutton and Onomah and Tuanzebe and Snodgrass, it was as if we nullified our own main threat.

Do you know what though, we did fine in the first half and I just knew they'd come out at the start of the second half stronger and we just seemed to be in disarray right up until they backed off a bit and we changed formation. And then no one really seemed to know what to do.

Afterwards someone in the pub said we needed a Gabby on the pitch, someone who played for the shirt. Was our performance just a hangover from the blues match or was it the lack of teeth up front and any individual sparks of brilliance? Whatever, we'd better hope Grealish and Adomah aren't out for long. Sure, I know Fulham are strong and were at home but Preston just drew with Wolves and who wants to bet against Bruce sticking with yesterday's starting 11.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:03 am

Keep the same line-up and we'll lose Tuesday. Guaranteed.

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by De Kuip on Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:57 am

Joppe84 wrote:Keep the same line-up and we'll lose Tuesday. Guaranteed.

Not sure I'd say guaranteed but I'd certainly say there's a real chance of dropping points. They've beaten Bristol city away, Cardiff away and just drawn away with the stand out team in the division whilst having ten men for some of the game.
More and more I'm starting to think it's not about the difficulty or otherwise regarding our rival's fixtures, it's about us treating every game as winnable and going for it, but we need key players fit to do that. I'm not talking gung ho, I'm talking about going out with the attitude that over our dead body will we relinquish points. All this timid bollox won't get us auto promoted and if Cardiff get second I don't want to be playing Fulham for playoff promotion.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by De Kuip on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:03 pm

By the way i do think we will get second and all runs come to an end - it was always likely to be at Fulham who I'd say currently is the toughest away game going and I include wolves in that assessment. Losing Grealish and Adomah was a body blow before a ball was kicked.
Preston will show us whether it's a blip or the start of a slump, for me it's a blip more related to injuries and below par team selections than form, so it's even more vital we have those players back so that silly replacement choices don't hamper us.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by achilles on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:05 pm

@FoxyAV as you were there perhaps you can give me your view as I have only watched the highlights.

This may be controversial but I think the partnership of Chester and Terry are struggling especially Terry.
I have noticed in the last few games errors creeping in especially positional wise and their lack of pace is desperately being exposed. The first goal Terry was out of position and didn't really know where he was. In the second half Fulham had a great break which totally exposed us, with Terry totally out of position near the half way line marking nobody, Chester was presumably marking someone nearby near the half way line and the ball was played down the inside right channel. Tuanzebe had to come across leaving Sessegnon free to close down the player which he did and Johnstone comfortable saved the shot. When Terry eventually comes back into shot Tuanzebe had a right go at him, which was fantastic to see, in complete contrast to Onomah, a loan player who actually gives a damn, with a attitude like that he has a great future. Basically Chester and Terry are not mobile enough and are easily exposed, they rely on their experience to get themselves out of trouble which is not enough against the better sides.

Tend to agree with @Joppe84 if we keep the same side I am not optimistic for Tuesday.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by achilles on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:15 pm

@De Kuip wrote:By the way i do think we will get second and all runs come to an end - it was always likely to be at Fulham who I'd say currently is the toughest away game going and I include wolves in that assessment. Losing Grealish and Adomah was a body blow before a ball was kicked.
Preston will show us whether it's a blip or the start of a slump, for me it's a blip more related to injuries and below par team selections than form, so it's even more vital we have those players back so that silly replacement choices don't hamper us.

In that assessment you have to assume that Bruce has taken the poor team selection on board but judged on past experiences that will not be the case.
Stop messing players about, slot players in like for like if possible. Thor had to replace Adomah (not ideal but the only option with Green still injured) and I would have had Lansbury replace Grealish or even Axel (play alongside Jedinak) and push Hourihane further forward (I am not even going to mention O'Hare who I am beginning to think is a figment of my imagination).
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:51 pm

1. I'd prefer us to switch up as little as possible. 

2. If Grealish still is out or whenever he is out, I'd prefer to see a direct replacefor him, whether that's O'Hare or someone else.

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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by FoxyAV on Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:10 pm

@achilles wrote:@FoxyAV as you were there perhaps you can give me your view as I have only watched the highlights.

This may be controversial but I think the partnership of Chester and Terry are struggling especially Terry.
I have noticed in the last few games errors creeping in especially positional wise and their lack of pace is desperately being exposed. The first goal Terry was out of position and didn't really know where he was. In the second half Fulham had a great break which totally exposed us, with Terry totally out of position near the half way line marking nobody, Chester was presumably marking someone nearby near the half way line and the ball was played down the inside right channel. Tuanzebe had to come across leaving Sessegnon free to close down the player which he did and Johnstone comfortable saved the shot. When Terry eventually comes back into shot Tuanzebe had a right go at him, which was fantastic to see, in complete contrast to Onomah, a loan player who actually gives a damn, with a attitude like that he has a great future. Basically Chester and Terry are not mobile enough and are easily exposed, they rely on their experience to get themselves out of trouble which is not enough against the better sides.

Tend to agree with @Joppe84 if we keep the same side I am not optimistic for Tuesday.    

I didn't really notice, I think they just came out after half time with more desire to win the match than us and it was just one of those goals. They're strong down the wings, we normally are but were pretty hopeless at it yesterday.

Bruce tends to stick to the same team until someone gets injured. I really hope he doesn't stick with the same lot again (he said in the interviews both goals were errors) but have a feeling he will. He'll have the same players to choose from and we have to assume what he sent out at Fulham is what he thinks is the best side.
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Re: Match Thread v Fulham away

Post by FoxyAV on Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:12 pm

Joppe84 wrote:1. I'd prefer us to switch up as little as possible. 

2. If Grealish still is out or whenever he is out, I'd prefer to see a direct replacefor him, whether that's O'Hare or someone else.

Me too. Unfortunately there doesn't be any rhyme or reason to selection. We ended up with the recent starting 11 purely by chance (due to injuries) so why should we think there's any plan to the selection when the players in to replace the injured are injured?
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