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The Bells Are Ringing


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Onomah

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Post by deadbuzzardalive Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:35 pm

Maybe it's worth pointing out that none of our players are anywhere near good enough to get in the Tottenham side at the moment, or get on their bench for that matter.
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Post by De Kuip Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:13 pm

deadbuzzardalive wrote:Maybe it's worth pointing out that none of our players are anywhere near good enough to get in the Tottenham side at the moment, or get on their bench for that matter.
No, probably not, but we don't need them to be. Nor is Onomah. What we need them to be is good enough to play for us in the championship  or at least demonstrate real progress towards that goal. If we do get promoted then we'd need to reassess in that context, but for now, pointing out that they wouldn't het in a spuds side isn't really the point.
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Post by Guest Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:40 pm

Villa_Dan wrote:
A lot of our youth isn't ready or good enough for the Prem so if we do go up to we'd need to sign players, to play over them anyway so loans don't bother me

Which is exactly why Hayes, Suliman, RHM, Green, Grealish, Davis, Borg etc. all should play a LOT more.
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Post by FoxyAV Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:35 am

Moyes has said he'd like Snodgrass back, but his loan deal is for a season. There are some other issues with loans (other than Joppe's valid point about playing our own players):

Clubs lend out players who need experience or who aren't in the first team (or they're Chelsea, who buy the best players, send them out on loan and let other clubs develop them). If they need experience and it doesn't work out (Tish came back to us apparently with an attitude problem) we've wasted half a season or more where we could have been developing our own. If the player isn't in the first team we might quickly find out why.

I was talking yesterday to a mate who supports Spurs. He reckons Onomah is an excellent DM and no way an AM. So in this case we're wasting time on someone who is by all accounts not interested, in a position he doesn't traditionally play and in which he's not excelling and with Bruce's support is taking the number 10 place away from Grealish while Whelan starts every match where we should have been watching Onomah.

If his heart really isn't in it then surely we should send him back but I still reckon he should be given a couple of matches next to Hourihane before the end of the window (if it works like that). Hourihane has been able to get forward and score goals and help out with assists, it seems odd that he's scored 6 with 2 assists from a compromised mostly defensive position while Onomah has scored 4 with 1 assist as a regularly played attacking midfielder in the Championship.
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Post by achilles Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:59 am

As @FoxyAV points out Chelsea just buy up all the potential best players and just loan them out but the Manchester clubs do the same just that Chelsea are the worse! Here is their list for this season.

CHELSEA LOANEES: FULL LIST OF THE 33 PLAYERS THAT ARE AWAY ON TEMPORARY DEALS
Nizaar Kinsella  
Chelsea correspondent
Nizaar Kinsella
01/09/2017

The Blues are famed for their extensive loan policy in which they send their youngsters and fringe players out on temporary moves
Chelsea are famed for their controversial loan policy and end the British transfer window with 33 players away from the club across a host of leagues.

The Premier League boasts five Chelsea loanees, ranging from Kurt Zouma at Stoke City to Ruben Loftus-Cheek at Crystal Palace.

The Blues' loan army goes down as the sixth tier of English football as the club aims to give their best teenage goalkeepers experience at the youngster age possible.

Chelsea's feeder club in the Netherlands is Vitesse and they have four loanees, while their reach across Europe currently spans five different leagues.

PREMIER LEAGUE
Izzy Brown - Brighton & Hove Albion

Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Crystal Palace

Kasey Palmer - Huddersfield Town

Kurt Zouma - Stoke City

Tammy Abraham - Swansea City

Tammy Abraham Swansea City 26082017

CHAMPIONSHIP
Ike Ugbo - Barnsley

Jeremie Boga - Birmingham City

Lucas Piazon and Tomas Kalas - Fulham

Fikayo Tomori, Michael Hector and Ola Aina - Hull City

Lewis Baker - Middlesbrough

Jamal Blackman - Sheffield United

Jeremie Boga

LEAGUE ONE
Jay Dasilva - Charlton Athletic

Jordan Houghton - Doncaster Rovers

LEAGUE TWO
Bradley Collins - Forest Green Rovers

Charlie Wakefield - Stevenage

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Nathan Baxter - Woking F.C.

NATIONAL LEAGUE SOUTH
Jared Thompson - Chippenham Town

LIGUE 1
Nathan - Amiens

RUSSIAN PREMIER LEAGUE
Josimar Quintero - Rostov

Mario Pasalic - Spartak Moscow

EREDIVISIE
Cristian Cuevas - FC Twente

Todd Kane - Groningen

Marco van Ginkel - PSV

Charlie Colkett, Fankaty Dabo, Mason Mount and Matt Miazga - Vitesse

Matt Miazga

SUPER LIG
Kenneth Omeruo - Kasımpaşa

SERBIAN SUPERLIGA
Danilo Pantić - Partizan

BELGIAN FIRST DIVISION
Victorien Angban - Waasland-Beveren
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Post by deadbuzzardalive Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:40 am

De Kuip wrote:
deadbuzzardalive wrote:Maybe it's worth pointing out that none of our players are anywhere near good enough to get in the Tottenham side at the moment, or get on their bench for that matter.
No, probably not, but we don't need them to be. Nor is Onomah. What we need them to be is good enough to play for us in the championship  or at least demonstrate real progress towards that goal. If we do get promoted then we'd need to reassess in that context, but for now, pointing out that they wouldn't het in a spuds side isn't really the point.

That our players don't need to be good enough to get into the Tottenham squad, is exactly the point I was making, in responce to the idea that it reflects badly on Onomah, he hasn't been called back from his loan, whereas another one of their youngsters has. We need Onomah to be good enough for us, not a team chasing Champions league football. I think the criticism of him is over the top, at times he's been poor, but at other times he's been our best player, I think he'll improve as the season goes on, because with the return of Green and Grealish there will less of a burden on him, and we can give him more of a break.

On loans as whole, I don't mind them myself as we'd be in a much less advantageous position without Johnstone, Snodgrass and Onomah.
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Post by De Kuip Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:26 pm

deadbuzzardalive wrote:
De Kuip wrote:
deadbuzzardalive wrote:Maybe it's worth pointing out that none of our players are anywhere near good enough to get in the Tottenham side at the moment, or get on their bench for that matter.
No, probably not, but we don't need them to be. Nor is Onomah. What we need them to be is good enough to play for us in the championship  or at least demonstrate real progress towards that goal. If we do get promoted then we'd need to reassess in that context, but for now, pointing out that they wouldn't het in a spuds side isn't really the point.

That our players don't need to be good enough to get into the Tottenham squad, is exactly the point I was making, in responce to the idea that it reflects badly on Onomah, he hasn't been called back from his loan, whereas another one of their youngsters has. We need Onomah to be good enough for us, not a team chasing Champions league football. I think the criticism of him is over the top, at times he's been poor, but at other times he's been our best player, I think he'll improve as the season goes on, because with the return of Green and Grealish there will less of a burden on him, and we can give him more of a break.

On loans as whole, I don't mind them myself as we'd be in a much less advantageous position without Johnstone, Snodgrass and Onomah.

Ah, sorry mate, I misunderstood what you were saying about players needing to be good enough for spuds. Thanks for the clarification Onomah - Page 2 3769219917
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Post by FoxyAV Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:00 pm

Interesting piece from a Spurs site. In essence there are two issues with his loan:

1. We're playing him out of position, he's a DM and not an AM.
2. We play hoofball.

Spurs don't play hoofball and want him as a DM, which means loaning him to us isn't of much use to them as we're not developing his game the way they want.

https://playingfor90.com/2018/01/20/tottenham-likely-bring-josh-onomah-back-fold/
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Post by achilles Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:18 pm

Why on earth did Bruce get him on loan then, does he really think he knows better? Onomah - Page 2 1327487109
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