Onomah
+7
Wriggle
AstonThriller
Boldfinger
Jae1411
Villa_Dan
deadbuzzardalive
FoxyAV
11 posters
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Re: Onomah
Maybe it's worth pointing out that none of our players are anywhere near good enough to get in the Tottenham side at the moment, or get on their bench for that matter.
deadbuzzardalive- Posts : 3634
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Join date : 2014-05-19
Re: Onomah
No, probably not, but we don't need them to be. Nor is Onomah. What we need them to be is good enough to play for us in the championship or at least demonstrate real progress towards that goal. If we do get promoted then we'd need to reassess in that context, but for now, pointing out that they wouldn't het in a spuds side isn't really the point.deadbuzzardalive wrote:Maybe it's worth pointing out that none of our players are anywhere near good enough to get in the Tottenham side at the moment, or get on their bench for that matter.
De Kuip- Posts : 2899
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Join date : 2014-05-20
Age : 107
Re: Onomah
Villa_Dan wrote:
A lot of our youth isn't ready or good enough for the Prem so if we do go up to we'd need to sign players, to play over them anyway so loans don't bother me
Which is exactly why Hayes, Suliman, RHM, Green, Grealish, Davis, Borg etc. all should play a LOT more.
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Re: Onomah
Moyes has said he'd like Snodgrass back, but his loan deal is for a season. There are some other issues with loans (other than Joppe's valid point about playing our own players):
Clubs lend out players who need experience or who aren't in the first team (or they're Chelsea, who buy the best players, send them out on loan and let other clubs develop them). If they need experience and it doesn't work out (Tish came back to us apparently with an attitude problem) we've wasted half a season or more where we could have been developing our own. If the player isn't in the first team we might quickly find out why.
I was talking yesterday to a mate who supports Spurs. He reckons Onomah is an excellent DM and no way an AM. So in this case we're wasting time on someone who is by all accounts not interested, in a position he doesn't traditionally play and in which he's not excelling and with Bruce's support is taking the number 10 place away from Grealish while Whelan starts every match where we should have been watching Onomah.
If his heart really isn't in it then surely we should send him back but I still reckon he should be given a couple of matches next to Hourihane before the end of the window (if it works like that). Hourihane has been able to get forward and score goals and help out with assists, it seems odd that he's scored 6 with 2 assists from a compromised mostly defensive position while Onomah has scored 4 with 1 assist as a regularly played attacking midfielder in the Championship.
Clubs lend out players who need experience or who aren't in the first team (or they're Chelsea, who buy the best players, send them out on loan and let other clubs develop them). If they need experience and it doesn't work out (Tish came back to us apparently with an attitude problem) we've wasted half a season or more where we could have been developing our own. If the player isn't in the first team we might quickly find out why.
I was talking yesterday to a mate who supports Spurs. He reckons Onomah is an excellent DM and no way an AM. So in this case we're wasting time on someone who is by all accounts not interested, in a position he doesn't traditionally play and in which he's not excelling and with Bruce's support is taking the number 10 place away from Grealish while Whelan starts every match where we should have been watching Onomah.
If his heart really isn't in it then surely we should send him back but I still reckon he should be given a couple of matches next to Hourihane before the end of the window (if it works like that). Hourihane has been able to get forward and score goals and help out with assists, it seems odd that he's scored 6 with 2 assists from a compromised mostly defensive position while Onomah has scored 4 with 1 assist as a regularly played attacking midfielder in the Championship.
FoxyAV- Posts : 2589
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Join date : 2014-04-21
Location : Winchester
Re: Onomah
As @FoxyAV points out Chelsea just buy up all the potential best players and just loan them out but the Manchester clubs do the same just that Chelsea are the worse! Here is their list for this season.
CHELSEA LOANEES: FULL LIST OF THE 33 PLAYERS THAT ARE AWAY ON TEMPORARY DEALS
Nizaar Kinsella
Chelsea correspondent
Nizaar Kinsella
01/09/2017
The Blues are famed for their extensive loan policy in which they send their youngsters and fringe players out on temporary moves
Chelsea are famed for their controversial loan policy and end the British transfer window with 33 players away from the club across a host of leagues.
The Premier League boasts five Chelsea loanees, ranging from Kurt Zouma at Stoke City to Ruben Loftus-Cheek at Crystal Palace.
The Blues' loan army goes down as the sixth tier of English football as the club aims to give their best teenage goalkeepers experience at the youngster age possible.
Chelsea's feeder club in the Netherlands is Vitesse and they have four loanees, while their reach across Europe currently spans five different leagues.
PREMIER LEAGUE
Izzy Brown - Brighton & Hove Albion
Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Crystal Palace
Kasey Palmer - Huddersfield Town
Kurt Zouma - Stoke City
Tammy Abraham - Swansea City
Tammy Abraham Swansea City 26082017
CHAMPIONSHIP
Ike Ugbo - Barnsley
Jeremie Boga - Birmingham City
Lucas Piazon and Tomas Kalas - Fulham
Fikayo Tomori, Michael Hector and Ola Aina - Hull City
Lewis Baker - Middlesbrough
Jamal Blackman - Sheffield United
Jeremie Boga
LEAGUE ONE
Jay Dasilva - Charlton Athletic
Jordan Houghton - Doncaster Rovers
LEAGUE TWO
Bradley Collins - Forest Green Rovers
Charlie Wakefield - Stevenage
NATIONAL LEAGUE
Nathan Baxter - Woking F.C.
NATIONAL LEAGUE SOUTH
Jared Thompson - Chippenham Town
LIGUE 1
Nathan - Amiens
RUSSIAN PREMIER LEAGUE
Josimar Quintero - Rostov
Mario Pasalic - Spartak Moscow
EREDIVISIE
Cristian Cuevas - FC Twente
Todd Kane - Groningen
Marco van Ginkel - PSV
Charlie Colkett, Fankaty Dabo, Mason Mount and Matt Miazga - Vitesse
Matt Miazga
SUPER LIG
Kenneth Omeruo - Kasımpaşa
SERBIAN SUPERLIGA
Danilo Pantić - Partizan
BELGIAN FIRST DIVISION
Victorien Angban - Waasland-Beveren
CHELSEA LOANEES: FULL LIST OF THE 33 PLAYERS THAT ARE AWAY ON TEMPORARY DEALS
Nizaar Kinsella
Chelsea correspondent
Nizaar Kinsella
01/09/2017
The Blues are famed for their extensive loan policy in which they send their youngsters and fringe players out on temporary moves
Chelsea are famed for their controversial loan policy and end the British transfer window with 33 players away from the club across a host of leagues.
The Premier League boasts five Chelsea loanees, ranging from Kurt Zouma at Stoke City to Ruben Loftus-Cheek at Crystal Palace.
The Blues' loan army goes down as the sixth tier of English football as the club aims to give their best teenage goalkeepers experience at the youngster age possible.
Chelsea's feeder club in the Netherlands is Vitesse and they have four loanees, while their reach across Europe currently spans five different leagues.
PREMIER LEAGUE
Izzy Brown - Brighton & Hove Albion
Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Crystal Palace
Kasey Palmer - Huddersfield Town
Kurt Zouma - Stoke City
Tammy Abraham - Swansea City
Tammy Abraham Swansea City 26082017
CHAMPIONSHIP
Ike Ugbo - Barnsley
Jeremie Boga - Birmingham City
Lucas Piazon and Tomas Kalas - Fulham
Fikayo Tomori, Michael Hector and Ola Aina - Hull City
Lewis Baker - Middlesbrough
Jamal Blackman - Sheffield United
Jeremie Boga
LEAGUE ONE
Jay Dasilva - Charlton Athletic
Jordan Houghton - Doncaster Rovers
LEAGUE TWO
Bradley Collins - Forest Green Rovers
Charlie Wakefield - Stevenage
NATIONAL LEAGUE
Nathan Baxter - Woking F.C.
NATIONAL LEAGUE SOUTH
Jared Thompson - Chippenham Town
LIGUE 1
Nathan - Amiens
RUSSIAN PREMIER LEAGUE
Josimar Quintero - Rostov
Mario Pasalic - Spartak Moscow
EREDIVISIE
Cristian Cuevas - FC Twente
Todd Kane - Groningen
Marco van Ginkel - PSV
Charlie Colkett, Fankaty Dabo, Mason Mount and Matt Miazga - Vitesse
Matt Miazga
SUPER LIG
Kenneth Omeruo - Kasımpaşa
SERBIAN SUPERLIGA
Danilo Pantić - Partizan
BELGIAN FIRST DIVISION
Victorien Angban - Waasland-Beveren
achilles- Posts : 2329
Reputation : 1386
Join date : 2014-05-10
Re: Onomah
De Kuip wrote:No, probably not, but we don't need them to be. Nor is Onomah. What we need them to be is good enough to play for us in the championship or at least demonstrate real progress towards that goal. If we do get promoted then we'd need to reassess in that context, but for now, pointing out that they wouldn't het in a spuds side isn't really the point.deadbuzzardalive wrote:Maybe it's worth pointing out that none of our players are anywhere near good enough to get in the Tottenham side at the moment, or get on their bench for that matter.
That our players don't need to be good enough to get into the Tottenham squad, is exactly the point I was making, in responce to the idea that it reflects badly on Onomah, he hasn't been called back from his loan, whereas another one of their youngsters has. We need Onomah to be good enough for us, not a team chasing Champions league football. I think the criticism of him is over the top, at times he's been poor, but at other times he's been our best player, I think he'll improve as the season goes on, because with the return of Green and Grealish there will less of a burden on him, and we can give him more of a break.
On loans as whole, I don't mind them myself as we'd be in a much less advantageous position without Johnstone, Snodgrass and Onomah.
deadbuzzardalive- Posts : 3634
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Join date : 2014-05-19
Re: Onomah
deadbuzzardalive wrote:De Kuip wrote:No, probably not, but we don't need them to be. Nor is Onomah. What we need them to be is good enough to play for us in the championship or at least demonstrate real progress towards that goal. If we do get promoted then we'd need to reassess in that context, but for now, pointing out that they wouldn't het in a spuds side isn't really the point.deadbuzzardalive wrote:Maybe it's worth pointing out that none of our players are anywhere near good enough to get in the Tottenham side at the moment, or get on their bench for that matter.
That our players don't need to be good enough to get into the Tottenham squad, is exactly the point I was making, in responce to the idea that it reflects badly on Onomah, he hasn't been called back from his loan, whereas another one of their youngsters has. We need Onomah to be good enough for us, not a team chasing Champions league football. I think the criticism of him is over the top, at times he's been poor, but at other times he's been our best player, I think he'll improve as the season goes on, because with the return of Green and Grealish there will less of a burden on him, and we can give him more of a break.
On loans as whole, I don't mind them myself as we'd be in a much less advantageous position without Johnstone, Snodgrass and Onomah.
Ah, sorry mate, I misunderstood what you were saying about players needing to be good enough for spuds. Thanks for the clarification
De Kuip- Posts : 2899
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Join date : 2014-05-20
Age : 107
Re: Onomah
Interesting piece from a Spurs site. In essence there are two issues with his loan:
1. We're playing him out of position, he's a DM and not an AM.
2. We play hoofball.
Spurs don't play hoofball and want him as a DM, which means loaning him to us isn't of much use to them as we're not developing his game the way they want.
https://playingfor90.com/2018/01/20/tottenham-likely-bring-josh-onomah-back-fold/
1. We're playing him out of position, he's a DM and not an AM.
2. We play hoofball.
Spurs don't play hoofball and want him as a DM, which means loaning him to us isn't of much use to them as we're not developing his game the way they want.
https://playingfor90.com/2018/01/20/tottenham-likely-bring-josh-onomah-back-fold/
FoxyAV- Posts : 2589
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Join date : 2014-04-21
Location : Winchester
Re: Onomah
Why on earth did Bruce get him on loan then, does he really think he knows better?
achilles- Posts : 2329
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Join date : 2014-05-10
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