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Next Aston Villa manager thread

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed May 30, 2018 11:00 am

I think Bruce would have gone by now, if he was going. Usually when a manager is on the verge of getting the sack journalist pick up on it as well, but we're not really seeing any of that.

Not really sure what's going on with this club at the moment. I don't think it will happen myself, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more speculation that Xia might look sell up.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by FoxyAV on Wed May 30, 2018 11:24 am

They're probably all too busy holding a fire sale to worry about anything else.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by bruka on Wed May 30, 2018 12:43 pm

Just been reading a great article about the paradox surrounding the managerial merry-go-round. Hughes, Pulis, Allardyce, Bruce, etc keep being given jobs because they are "secure" and guarantee you a top flight place or promotion from the Championship. The problem is that no club is going to risk it all on a manager who hasn't been tried and tested when there is so much money at stake so they inevitably end up with one of the "old guard" in charge. How is an ex-player looking to turn his hand to management supposed to get his foot in the door ? It's crazy to think that Mark Hughes was sacked from Stoke for pretty much relegating them and Southampton then take him on to save them from relegation.
Thinking about Villa with this in mind, if we had the money to pay the wages, if Bruce were to leave what's the betting that Allardyce or Pearson or Pardew would be brought in as his replacement. I get the feeling Wyness is very much a "jobs for the boys, kind of guy. Why not take a punt on someone like (and i have no idea if these guys have the relevant coaching badges just using them as an example) Stan, Mellberg or Laursen ? Imagine the feel good factor around the place on Stans first game in charge at Villa Park. They can't all be crap managers. Fair play to the likes of Derby and Rangers for giving Gerrard and Lampard an opportunity and Everton for listening to the fans and dumping Allardyce despite their decent league position in favour of someone who plays good football.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by smetro on Wed May 30, 2018 1:00 pm

@bruka wrote:Just been reading a great article about the paradox surrounding the managerial merry-go-round. Hughes, Pulis, Allardyce, Bruce, etc keep being given jobs because they are "secure" and guarantee you a top flight place or promotion from the Championship. The problem is that no club is going to risk it all on a manager who hasn't been tried and tested when there is so much money at stake so they inevitably end up with one of the "old guard" in charge. How is an ex-player looking to turn his hand to management supposed to get his foot in the door ? It's crazy to think that Mark Hughes was sacked from Stoke for pretty much relegating them and Southampton then take him on to save them from relegation.
Thinking about Villa with this in mind, if we had the money to pay the wages, if Bruce were to leave what's the betting that Allardyce or Pearson or Pardew would be brought in as his replacement. I get the feeling Wyness is very much a "jobs for the boys, kind of guy. Why not take a punt on someone like (and i have no idea if these guys have the relevant coaching badges just using them as an example) Stan, Mellberg or Laursen ? Imagine the feel good factor around the place on Stans first game in charge at Villa Park. They can't all be crap managers. Fair play to the likes of Derby and Rangers for giving Gerrard and Lampard an opportunity and Everton for listening to the fans and dumping Allardyce despite their decent league position in favour of someone who plays good football.

Remi Garde and Sherwood weren't tried and tested.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by big ming on Wed May 30, 2018 1:00 pm

How difficult does it need to be tactically? You keep the ball when you have it through pass and move and you press the ball carrier and potential receivers when you don't. To do this you need fitness and a modicum of skill.
Half our problem last year was that old legs got tired very quickly and recovery rates were slow. One "destroyer" in any team is enough. A much better blend of youth and experience may help next year but it still needs a coach who like to keep it and press.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by bruka on Wed May 30, 2018 1:12 pm

@smetro wrote:
@bruka wrote:Just been reading a great article about the paradox surrounding the managerial merry-go-round. Hughes, Pulis, Allardyce, Bruce, etc keep being given jobs because they are "secure" and guarantee you a top flight place or promotion from the Championship. The problem is that no club is going to risk it all on a manager who hasn't been tried and tested when there is so much money at stake so they inevitably end up with one of the "old guard" in charge. How is an ex-player looking to turn his hand to management supposed to get his foot in the door ? It's crazy to think that Mark Hughes was sacked from Stoke for pretty much relegating them and Southampton then take him on to save them from relegation.
Thinking about Villa with this in mind, if we had the money to pay the wages, if Bruce were to leave what's the betting that Allardyce or Pearson or Pardew would be brought in as his replacement. I get the feeling Wyness is very much a "jobs for the boys, kind of guy. Why not take a punt on someone like (and i have no idea if these guys have the relevant coaching badges just using them as an example) Stan, Mellberg or Laursen ? Imagine the feel good factor around the place on Stans first game in charge at Villa Park. They can't all be crap managers. Fair play to the likes of Derby and Rangers for giving Gerrard and Lampard an opportunity and Everton for listening to the fans and dumping Allardyce despite their decent league position in favour of someone who plays good football.

Remi Garde and Sherwood weren't tried and tested.

True, and they were both shocking but that doesn't mean that all managers that aren't tried and tested will be as bad. At Villa we seem to have the reverse Midas effect, everything we touch turns to shit.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed May 30, 2018 1:35 pm

I've stated many times that I think we need get away from appointing the same old managers from the UK managerial merrygoround but I think I'd make an exception for Allardyce, his football isn't as bad as people make out, he's just taken Everton from the relegation zone to eight in the premier league, and does a pretty good job everywhere he goes, I think he'd get us promoted, it all comes back to money though so unlikely to happen.

Although I'd much prefer it we could find someone who could for us as Nuno as done for Wolves, or Jokanović for Fulham.

In terms of ex players, if Bruce does decide to leave, I wouldn't be that surprised to see us give the job to Terry, whether that would be a good move or not I'm not sure.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by bruka on Wed May 30, 2018 1:38 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I've stated many times that I think we need get away from appointing the same old managers from the UK managerial merrygoround but I think I'd make an exception for Allardyce, his football isn't as bad as people make out, he's just taken Everton from the relegation zone to eight in the premier league, and does a pretty good job everywhere he goes, I think he'd get us promoted, it all comes back to money though so unlikely to happen.

Although I'd much prefer it we could find someone who could for us as Nuno as done for Wolves, or Jokanović for Fulham.

In terms of ex players, if Bruce does decide to leave, I wouldn't be that surprised to see us give the job to Terry, whether that would be a good move or not I'm not sure.

I would take Terry over Bruce. His legs may be gone but the guy has played under some of the best managers in football (and Steve Bruce) and must have picked up a trick or two along the way.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by FoxyAV on Wed May 30, 2018 1:45 pm

@smetro wrote:Remi Garde and Sherwood weren't tried and tested.

I haven't a clue what Sherwood tried to do but for me Garde's main error was trying to get us to play a 4-1-4-1 when the only outfield player it suited was Sanchez. I think he would have done a good job for us in the Championship.

One thing Bruce did well was to quickly settle on a starting 11. One thing he didn't do well was to only change that starting 11 when someone was injured.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed May 30, 2018 1:49 pm

I'd definitely take Terry over Bruce, but as I say it's starting to feel like he isn't actually going anywhere, I'm actually surprised at the number of fans who want him to stay, as if having a squad with togetherness is some great achievement, most squads have togetherness and a will to win, but it's no good if they fail.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by FoxyAV on Wed May 30, 2018 2:04 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I'd definitely take Terry over Bruce, but as I say it's starting to feel like he isn't actually going anywhere, I'm actually surprised at the number of fans who want him to stay, as if having a squad with togetherness is some great achievement, most squads have togetherness and a will to win, but it's no good if they fail.

Especially as the togetherness built up over the last couple of seasons is in the process of being ripped apart as the likes of Terry and Snodgrass meander off.

I haven't wanted Bruce for a very long time. Watching 10 men well inside our own half in the first half of the final with only the striker we know can't deal with hoofball being our only outlet when we've established a very long time ago that we're a) not a counter-attacking team and b) it doesn't work for us as a tactic, was for me the final nail in his coffin. And yet here he still is. He's taken some of the best players in the league, brought in a lot of ex-PL players because he wants real men and ones who can take us 'over the line' and blamed them when things don't work out. The press give him a huge hand, even when they can clearly see the team isn't working they provide the excuse for him that he's been promoted to the PL four times so it must be the players. Why doesn't the buck stop with him? He's the manager, he tells them what to do and how to do it, if it's consistently not working then it must be everyone else's fault but his. I don't recall him ever saying it was his fault we lost a match. Aside from a header from Jedi, in over three-and-a-half hours of playoff matches we only looked like scoring from rebounds or pieces of individual skill. We have one of the (then) current in-favour strikers in Kodjia capable of dealing with hoofball and he plays Grabban, who we've already seen can't. If the idea was to get the whole team to defend until we can hoof the ball to the striker to hold it up while the midfield mobilises in force to support him then the manager selected the wrong striker. That's how to scupper your main tactic. The rest of the time most of the players didn't know what to do with the ball and couldn't seem to find themselves space*. What's Bruce been working on these last two seasons? Is our Wembley display all he's done with that selection of top Championship players?

*I'm being a bit unkind here. We did seem to only cross the ball low enough for their defence to deal with or to the back post.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by big ming on Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:41 pm

Bruce needs to go, Im afraid. If you look at just two players.Hourihane and Hogan, you can see why. Hourihane, playing in an advanced midfield role for Barnsley was deadly, banging wonder goals in from 20/30 yards.Dead ball or open play, he was clearly encouraged to have a go everytime he glimpsed the goal. That has obviously been coached out of him in the Bruce system.
Hogan clearly feeds on being slipped through against the last man of in receiveing a cut back from the dead ball line. We have employed him to stand up front and receive the ball, chest high while surrounded by three defenders or watching it sail over his head from "hoofball". Why buy them unless you were going to play to their strengths? Bruce's strategy,Bruce,s tactics. He has to go because he will not change.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by FoxyAV on Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:51 pm

@big ming wrote:Bruce needs to go, Im afraid. If you look at just two players.Hourihane and Hogan, you can see why. Hourihane, playing in an advanced midfield role for Barnsley was deadly, banging wonder goals in from 20/30 yards.Dead ball or open play, he was clearly encouraged to have a go everytime he glimpsed the goal. That has obviously been coached out of him in the Bruce system.
Hogan clearly feeds on being slipped through against the last man of in receiveing a cut back from the dead ball line. We have employed him to stand up front and receive the ball, chest high while surrounded by three defenders or watching it sail over his head from "hoofball". Why buy them unless you were going to play to their strengths?  Bruce's strategy,Bruce,s tactics. He has to go because he will not change.

Yeah, I'd like to like this post too!

It seems to me the striker is there to hold up the ball for the midfield cavalry, Hourihane is there to hover on the edge of the box and score goals from rebounds, miscued clearances etc (which he's actually very good at), the full backs provide the crosses, the wingers cut in to shoot on their favourite feet, the defence is there to provide assists or head the ball home from a corner, the goalie is there to get the ball to the opposition as quickly as possible so they can have another go and Grealish is there to collect loose balls from defence and run up the pitch until someone fouls him. Occasionally something throws a spanner in the works - everyone's defending so hard and hoofing in a panic they forget to try passing and moving forward or the full backs are kept so busy they can't get forward.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:00 pm

According to some reporter/presenter from Sky, Leeds are in contact with Bruce (along with three others) over their manager's job.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by STO67 on Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:18 pm

The question Tony needs to answer for himself, if he keeps the present manager for next season, what will be different to what he saw in the play off final? How can he guarantee a better result from the league campaign with Bruce in charge?
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by VTID85 on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:00 am

Not suggestimg this guy is the answer, but if anyone knows any more about his style or reputation (other than him being a sharp dressed man) then please share:

Paul Tisdale leaves Exeter City, relinquishing his title of longest serving current manager in the football league -
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by Jae1411 on Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Tisdale is going to mk dons I believe. But he has also lost his last 2 play off finals but at a lower level than Bruce so that's a meh from me.

If Leeds get Bielsa though that will be a kick in the nuts.


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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:23 pm

Alex Bruce confirms on twitter that Bruce is staying.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by bruka on Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:10 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Alex Bruce confirms on twitter that Bruce is staying.

And that's me done. See you all when he's gone.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by AstonThriller on Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:09 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Alex Bruce confirms on twitter that Bruce is staying.

Because he owns the club, right? Laughing

He HOPES his dad will be back, but until we hear it from the man who makes the decisions (and Xia didn't even do that in his "statement"), then everything else is irrelevant.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:17 pm

Well we know that he won't be quitting now, and if his job was seriously under review, you'd think the Bruces wouldn't be talking publicly about him returning as if it was given.

The only small crumb of hope now, is that the club were hoping that he'd quit by some faculty of his own will, to save on compo, but now that's obviously not going to happen, they just sack him.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by AstonThriller on Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:24 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Well we know that he won't be quitting now, and if his job was seriously under review, you'd think the Bruces wouldn't be talking publicly about him returning as if it was given.

The only small crumb of hope now, is that the club were hoping that he'd quit by some faculty of his own will, to save on compo, but now that's obviously not going to happen, they just sack him.

Or maybe Xia is gonna leave it up to the next owner to decide Bruce's future? There's more than Bruce's job under question here, it's about whether Xia stays as well. Hopefully next week we will hear something about these two issues.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:03 pm

If Xia moves this summer, then things would have had to happened very fast, as it's hard to imagine he had any intention of selling up up until the Fulham defeat.

If it does happen though, lets hope he sells to to someone mega rich, with big ambitions and most importantly good at making the right appointments, it's about time something good happened to us.

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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by FoxyAV on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:06 pm

You know what, I didn't come up to Villa Park all season. I went to Reading and Fulham away and watched us lose both times with crappy team selection and anti-tactics and just didn't want to spend a load of money and time I don't have getting very annoyed. And this annoys me even more. It isn't that it's a long way from Hampshire or that I can't find the money and time, it's that I dislike Bruce and his reliance on chance that I've not been up to the club in a whole season. If he stays then, well, I don't know. I really don't know if I can cope with the negativity it brings up in me. What's worse is I don't know if my son is going to grow up a Villa fan and that's just weird. We'll see how it turns out but my father-in-law and 10 or 15 family members are West Ham supporters and have a block of season tickets. Southampton's my local club. I strongly suspect I'm going to have a lot of trouble convincing the boy he should be like me and support the Villa.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

Post by Synopsis on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:40 am

I don't think Bruce will go anywhere, the club is in no position financially to be paying people off, nor for compensation payments to other clubs for any incoming management teams. I expect the current coaching set up to remain until their contracts expire and the only thing I can see changing this is us positioning in the relegation zone during next season.
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Re: Next Aston Villa manager thread

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