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JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:45 am

I don't want us to sign anyone as they would just be more Bruce style cloggers.

Best we can hope for is getting rid of Richards and Gabby to desperate clubs by taking some of the wages.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Villa_Dan on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:02 am

How bad is our wage bill? It was fairly buggered not long agoago which could be a FFP issue
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by DelboyVilla on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:57 am

@Villa_Dan wrote:How bad is our wage bill? It was fairly buggered not long agoago which could be a FFP issue

Well after signing Terry, Whelan, Snodgrass and Elmo I think they may still be buggered so I would agree with your conclusions @Villa_Dan

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:51 am

Apparently the fee being talked about for Grabban is £10m+, so he won't be coming here. Meanwhile McCormack has scored ten goals in his last thirteen games in the A-League.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Dazzle on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:24 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Apparently the fee being talked about for Grabban is £10m+, so he won't be coming here. Meanwhile McCormack has scored ten goals in his last thirteen games in the A-League.

I think Xia has a role to play here in telling everyone to grow up and operate as professionals. We have in McCormack a proven championship goal scorer who, whatever the reasons, has lost his way a little. He was hung out to dry in a very public way by Bruce, a way that players such as Richards and Agbonlahor have not had to endure no matter their misdemeanours. Or Grealish for that matter. McCormack was an expensive purchase and a continuing expensive employee on a weekly basis. Villa are short up front, short on money. People HAVE to be made to put personal feelings to one side in the pursuit of common success. It’s utterly ridiculous that we haven’t and continue not to utilise a proven championship performer. My opinion is that Bruce is the biggest obstacle in this with his old school dogma. A more measured manager would find a way for McCormack in the squad. And none of this is to excuse McCormack, if he does/did have personal problems it’s also down to him to get things sorted to be the best he can be. But both parties HAVE to work together.
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:35 am

McCormack is done at this level methinks

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by villajk on Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:45 pm

agree

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Villa Ranger on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:06 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:
@Villa Ranger wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I must say I am starting to wonder about the whole FFP thing, I bet if the Man City owners or Roman Abramovich owned a club in this division that was in our position they'd find a way around it, but then again they probably wouldn't be employing Steve Bruce at this point either. Wolves owners are finding a way to spend money, despite not having parachute payments..

Wolves haven't spent anything like what we've spent in the last 3 years (which is the period that counts).
Wolves are just exploiting a loophole in the rules which some people are in favour of, and others think is cheating. Either way it's working for them.

And also, they seem to have a very good manager.

I don't agree with you when you say that other teams would get around the rules. There's no getting around the rules and no club, to my knowledge, has managed to do this.

If you'd care to give an example, where you think a team has been treated favourably with respect to FFP, and you can back it up with facts and figures, then please do.

You say you don't agree me when I say other teams would get around the rules, straight after saying yourself that Wolves are exploiting a loophole, Paris Saint Germain have done similar with the signing of Neymar, and I didn't say that any club has been treated favourably with respect to FFP, so no I don't care to go over club's accounts (not that I'd have a clue what I was looking at) to try and prove a point I didn't make to begin with, although most would argue it's been designed to favour clubs already established in the first place.

Both Bruce and Wyness hinted during the summer that there were moves behind the scenes to try and either get rid of it, or at least to get the rules relaxed, and there's been talk recently that PSG are purposely pushing it to it's limits, so they can take UEFA to court if they try and hit them with any kind of sanction.

I didn't say Wolves are exploiting an FFP loophole. They are using the standard loan system, but in a way that exploits their 'special relationship' with one of the best connected football agents in the Game.

Your point was that Wolves are 'finding a way to spend money', but actually they are avoiding spending money by gaining access to players they couldn't otherwise afford.

I'm taking issue with your suggestion that Sheik Mansour or Roman Abramovich would find a loophole in the FFP rules.

I'm stating that the rules have been in place for years now, and that the kind of loopholes that can be dreamed up by the likes of you (no disrespect) have been closed long ago.

Also why are you talking about PSG and Neymar? FFP is not about what you spend. It's about a club's acceptable losses when considering spend vs income. What is PSG's commercial revenue that they will use to offset the expenditure on Neymar? Do you know?

No.

(Cue lot's of Google searches)  

There is an underlying inference on this forum that any reference by the Manager or Owners to the restrictions of FFP is a smokescreen, to cover up for a lack of funds or willingness to spend further in the transfer market, and I'm calling Bullshit.

I've backed it up with facts & figures before on here, but why let facts get in the way of opinions, eh?  
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:17 am

You said Wolves are exploiting a loophole in the rules, in the context of a discussion on FFP, they're using clever ways to work around FFP, just as I pointed out Man City and Chelsea would if they were in our position, and I think it's pretty naive to think otherwise, I didn't say that they'd break the FFP rules and get away with it.

And back on Wolves I think you'll find they've spent a considerable amount of money, they've broke the championship transfer record twice in the last two windows, and before those two signings broke their own transfer record on Cavaleiro, those three signings alone if reported fees are to believed cost in excess of £30m, and that's without them getting parachute payments, again I'm not saying they've broke any rules, just saying that they find clever ways to get around FFP, and as with Chelsea and Man City, having mega rich owners is helping their cause in that respect, for example Fosun own a big stake in Mendes' company.

As for the Neymar to Paris Saint Germain deal, everyone has been questioning it, even Barcelona and Real Madrid asked for PSG's accounts to be scrutinized. I don't need to google their accounts to know that they've come up with some creative way of paying for him and his wages to make the deal happen.

I've remonstrated with people on many occasions that it's not a lack of funds that's stopping us from spending but Financial Fair Play.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by FoxyAV on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:29 am

Xia appears to be a very astute businessman, I wonder if he needs an excuse not to give Bruce money. He will have wanted to know why he's buying all these players and seen what Bruce has done with the last two windows (actually, I'm not convinced Hogan, Hourihane and Lansbury were his idea). Borrowing Terry and Snodgrass (and to a lesser extent Onomah) has been far more successful than buying Whelan and Elmo. Xia will have people advising him direct on what's happening on the pitch and I wonder if he trusts Bruce to spend wisely as much as we do? we can bring in a much higher calibre of player on loan than we can buy, it's a big win all round.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by achilles on Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:13 am

To be honest I don't think we have used the loan market as well as we could have done in previous seasons but we certainly seem to have taken to it more this season perhaps because of FFP.
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Villa Ranger on Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:38 am

@Saunders82 wrote:I don't have the figures to prove anything but yes we have splashed money around like confetti over the last few years BUT correct me if my memory is wrong but haven't we also moved on some of these players for a least what we brought them for and in some cases more, and we have had parachute payments & we have been taken over in the last 3 years too, so how are we this close to the FFP line?? Wolves have been spending 15-20 million on at least 6 players who have made all the difference to their team, and they have none of the benefits I've stated, makes you think.

I need to check these figures but, from memory:

Season 2014/15:  £27M loss
Season 2015/16:  £81M loss
Season 2016/17:  £??????? (haven't seen the accounts but we spent BIG)

Total = £108M + last season loss / profit



Permitted loss over 3 seasons (with maximum optional investment from the Owner):

Season 2014/15:  £39M (Owner Randy Lerner)
Season 2015/16:  £39M (Owner Randy Lerner)
Season 2016/17:  £13M (Owner Tony Xia)

Total = £91M

We obviously did enough (with 2016/17 parachute payments and/or sales) to avoid FFP sanctions. Maybe we showed enough investment in training facilities or womens' football to scrape by.

The point is, next season the £27M loss drops out of the picture (because the period of reckoning is always the last 3 seasons).

HERE's THE BAD NEWS: The £81M in Lerner's final season still figures in the reckoning BUT, the permitted losses now drop because we have spent another year in the Championship.

Assuming that Randy did his bit and Tony continues to do so, our permitted losses drop to:

Season 2015/16:  £39M (Owner Randy Lerner)
Season 2016/17:  £13M (Owner Tony Xia)
Season 2017/18:  £13M (Owner Tony Xia)

Total = £65M

I know you can all see the pattern. This is why 'big' clubs are getting mired in the Championship. The longer you stay in it, the lower your permissible losses drop (under FFP). This is to make it fair for the small teams getting promoted from League 1, who then piss past you on the way to Premier League promotion! lol!

So in all seriousness, the Manager and Owners are not putting up a smokescreen, (and our beloved Howard Hodgson agrees), that if we don't get promoted this season, we're royally fucked.

Because next season, three teams will be relegated from the Premier League with circa £100M each in their 'kitty'.

And we will go from BIG FISH to small fish.

Whereby, we'll receive a casual £30M bid for Jack Grealish, which we'll be in no position to refuse - and so it begins...

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Villa Ranger on Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:49 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:just as I pointed out Man City and Chelsea would if they were in our position, and I think it's pretty naive to think otherwise, I didn't say that they'd break the FFP rules and get away with it

No naivety on my part.

Man City did break FFP rules, and were punished for it.
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:26 am

Well we're being linked by John Percy with Leonardo Ulloa and Daniel Amartey, I know a lot of people have been calling for Ulloa, but looking at his goal-scoring record it isn't that impressive, only eighteen goals in total for Leicester and none in the last two seasons. Amartey is another defensive midfielder who can also play right-back, two positions which we seem well covered in, unless one of Jedinak or Whelan are leaving.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Wriggle on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:53 am

@Villa Ranger wrote:
So in all seriousness, the Manager and Owners are not putting up a smokescreen, (and our beloved Howard Hodgson agrees), that if we don't get promoted this season, we're royally fucked.

Because next season, three teams will be relegated from the Premier League with circa £100M each in their 'kitty'.

And we will go from BIG FISH to small fish.

Whereby, we'll receive a casual £30M bid for Jack Grealish, which we'll be in no position to refuse - and so it begins...


i can't agree with this summary. The likes of Brighton, Huddersfield and now Wolves, Derby etc. have been in this division much longer and with smaller budget and worse starting positions to us and they've managed to do ok. plus 3 teams came down last season and we're doing better than all of them. So i don't buy into the this year or never theory. We just need to be smarter about our purchases and strategy than buying proven, costly championship players... a bit like all those clubs mentioned have.
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:28 am

^this.

Edit: ok gonna try and word this a little better. My English becomes shite when I'm stressed at work.

My big issue with AVFC the last 7-8 years, maybe since MON left, or maybe since Lerner took over, is that we keep trying to be reactive to create success. There's been a culture of trying to get success by big buys that worked out at other clubs and hasty decisions which ultimately come back to haunt us, instead of calmly building for the future by establishing a Villa way of modern football, which is ingrained in the academy and senior side. The huge amounts of cash we had, should have been spent at buying solid players at low wages while flipping them for more money and carefully solidified the club in it's position, which was one of the bigger clubs in the EPL. Instead we made every turn wrong. I can't actually think of anything we did right.
We gotta hit reset now and make this a proper football club again with a modern manager that carefully and intelligently makes buys based on their own philosophy, and not how their standing is in the league or with other clubs. Our transfer policy so far in this division has been the text book example of how not to do it.
Get in the right manager, the right crew, modern football. Utilize youths, even if people feel they aren't ready. Get rid of the wages bit by bit and slowly rebuild. There's no quick fix here IMO, but unfortunately people still haven't smelled the coffee IMO.

And I don't think for a second we will get promoted with Steve Bruce. Obviously if that happens things will change, but ultimately we at some point have to take the step mentioned above, and I honestly think it will be easier to make in the championship than in the EPL.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:08 pm

Seems like we're losing Bjarnasson to 'Società Polisportiva Ars et Labor 2013' or 'SPAL' as they're better known. Should free up some space on the bench.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:14 pm

Excellent. Could see he was shit and a useless signing after ten minutes with this club

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Gordonsleftboot on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:31 pm

With thanks to Villa Ranger for spelling out FFP and its impact. I had heard that if we do not get promotion, more cuts are likely and now I understand why.
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Gordonsleftboot on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:34 pm

Joppe84 wrote:Excellent. Could see he was shit and a useless signing after ten minutes with this club

Personally I don't believe he was every played in the middle, his best position, for long enough to make a difference. Giving a player 10 minutes to make am impression says a lot.

I see some are already writing off O'Hare & Doyle hayes as over rated. Amazing. With supporters like these who needs any opposition?
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:12 am

He wasn't given 10 minutes to make an impression. I saw after 10 minutes he was shit, which I stated this in the match thread / Bjarnason thread.

He was given 12 months at this club, to make an impression, and he was nothing but shit.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by achilles on Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:38 am

Hopefully we can get them in sooner rather than later, to have a greater impact!
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:55 am

Sorry deleted whilst checking for accuracy on what Bruce actually said, but yes seems like we're close to two signings with one particularly close, Someone on twitter seems to think that the one that's close is Axel Tuanzebe who's a defender from Manchester United.

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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by achilles on Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:38 pm

Personally I would like to see someone with pace to mix up the midfield/attacking options.

If the above is true it is a shame that Bruce does not see any options in our many defenders either fringe players or the U23's!
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Re: JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW THREAD!!

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:49 pm

Another nail in his coffin for my part. Another story where we develop youths for other clubs, when we got our own, and the ones we loan are shit to boot, that would be  inexusable.

Still makes my blood boil to see that wortless sack of shit Onomah run around on the pitch.


Last edited by Joppe84 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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