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The Steve Bruce thread

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:07 pm

We already knew that Bruce wouldn't be going anywhere for the time being, but if we were to continue this bad form, I don't think Agnew's arrival would stop them from making a change; as I said if they were to look towards Karanka, we'd have his assistant from Middlesbrough already here for him. Lets hope he can make a difference though, he was apparently Bruce's assistant when Hull got promoted, so that can only be a good thing.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by Joppe84 on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:59 pm

@FoxyAV wrote:
@Joppe84 wrote:OR how he has largely signed utter shit players.

That's a bit unfair. In January we signed Johnstone on loan, Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan, the last three of whom came to use with excellent stats from their previous clubs. Excluding Johnstone for a minute I still think the other three are excellent players, they're just being played badly by Bruce. I still maintain that either Lansbury or Onomah played next to Hourihane would be a considerable improvement over having Whelan there plus I'd play Grealish and Hogan ahead of them, even with Davis available.

Whelan and Elmo, yes, pointless. We already had three RBs, there wasn't any point adding a winger to play there. His positioning is so bad I wonder what Bruce thought Chester and Johnstone had done to weaken the defence by playing him, especially with Whelan in front. What a perfect invitation to any opposition manager with any nous to exploit.

Ok I'll admit that was poorly worded. I've actually always liked Johnstone so that was a good signing, though I think we should have looked at a permanent signing. Hourihane has worked out.

The rest of his signings, bar Terry (whom I'll admit I got wrong) has been shite. It's not that I claim they are all shite players, but ultimately they are shite Villa players and Bruce has failed in the market. Hogan, Elmo, Lansbury, Samba and Whelan are all fucking awful signings on high wages.
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by DelboyVilla on Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:26 am

So unless Agnew can coach Onomah to be a striker I don't see much need for another one of Potato Heads cronies to join the payroll?

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by achilles on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:08 am

Good question why do we need anybody else on the coaching staff without getting rid of all the current lot because they do naff all!

While you are about it do something different at corners, instead of providing a great opportunity for the opposition to counter attack. I would rather we just gave them a goal kick!
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by AstonThriller on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:14 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:We already knew that Bruce wouldn't be going anywhere for the time being, but if we were to continue this bad form, I don't think Agnew's arrival would stop them from making a change; as I said if they were to look towards Karanka, we'd have his assistant from Middlesbrough already here for him. Lets hope he can make a difference though, he was apparently Bruce's assistant when Hull got promoted, so that can only be a good thing.

Spot on, it all points towards Karanka IF Bruce were to get the chop. I honestly think if we slip out of the top six then Steve is gonna be under massive pressure. Next Saturday's game is massive for him now, especially as we could be out of the top six come kick-off time.
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by Dions_Bald_Head on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:27 am

TBH I think the Agnew arrival is a good thing because it means that people recognise there's a problem. Based on what he tweets, I really think that a managerial sacking is the very last thing Dr X ever wants; if only for the principle of it. And I agree with him - hiring & firing managers is too easily seen as the answer to a problem; I know they have the ultimate responsibility but as we saw with Lambert, coaches have an important role so its worth tinkering with first.

I wasn't a Bruce fan, then I was optimistic, then I wasn't; but if we're going down the "promotion at all costs" route rather than "take the opportunity to rebuild" route, then why not try parachuting in a coach before panic buying players & playing managerial roulette again.
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by Joppe84 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:35 pm

Always good getting in the right backroom staff, but in this case I can't see it making any difference. It's like polishing a turd. But we'll see.

According to wiki Jordan Rhodes is his nephew. McGrath I hope this doesn't mean we end up signing Rhodes. If that happens I will personally travel to Villa Park with a Bruce OUT banner.
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by DelboyVilla on Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:09 pm

I really do think that the addition of another coach will not solve the problems that we have and that all that will happen is a too many cooks situation where the players will be unsure of who to listen to in training? As for the myth of changing managers leads to instability? If the manager is not performing having been given ample time to solve the issues then the only solution is to replace them. Lambert was given too much time when he had clearly lost the dressing room after his assistants were found bullying and should have gone with them! Bruce is the same as I think the players have no confidence in the training, system or team selection? The only way is to change and the secret is to pick the right successor which has not been our strong point for the past few years?

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:04 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:We already knew that Bruce wouldn't be going anywhere for the time being, but if we were to continue this bad form, I don't think Agnew's arrival would stop them from making a change; as I said if they were to look towards Karanka, we'd have his assistant from Middlesbrough already here for him. Lets hope he can make a difference though, he was apparently Bruce's assistant when Hull got promoted, so that can only be a good thing.

Spot on, it all points towards Karanka IF Bruce were to get the chop. I honestly think if we slip out of the top six then Steve is gonna be under massive pressure. Next Saturday's game is massive for him now, especially as we could be out of the top six come kick-off time.

If we're outside the top six come Saturday night, I think he'll be dead man walking, especially with two tough away games to follow.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by FoxyAV on Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:42 pm

@Joppe84 wrote:
@FoxyAV wrote:
@Joppe84 wrote:OR how he has largely signed utter shit players.

That's a bit unfair. In January we signed Johnstone on loan, Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan, the last three of whom came to use with excellent stats from their previous clubs. Excluding Johnstone for a minute I still think the other three are excellent players, they're just being played badly by Bruce. I still maintain that either Lansbury or Onomah played next to Hourihane would be a considerable improvement over having Whelan there plus I'd play Grealish and Hogan ahead of them, even with Davis available.

Whelan and Elmo, yes, pointless. We already had three RBs, there wasn't any point adding a winger to play there. His positioning is so bad I wonder what Bruce thought Chester and Johnstone had done to weaken the defence by playing him, especially with Whelan in front. What a perfect invitation to any opposition manager with any nous to exploit.

Ok I'll admit that was poorly worded. I've actually always liked Johnstone so that was a good signing, though I think we should have looked at a permanent signing. Hourihane has worked out.

The rest of his signings, bar Terry (whom I'll admit I got wrong) has been shite. It's not that I claim they are all shite players, but ultimately they are shite Villa players and Bruce has failed in the market. Hogan, Elmo, Lansbury, Samba and Whelan are all fucking awful signings on high wages.

I reckon Hogan is an excellent player but we may as well stick him in goal and call him a crap striker the way Bruce plays him. I don't care about Whelan or Elmo and would much rather see other players in those positions but don't understand how you take players as previously successful as Lansbury, Hogan and Hourihane and make them as ineffective as in the first five months of this year. Training, tactics and who plays around them are key here. Westwood would probably have scored more goals from January to May than either of Hourihane or Lansbury. I don't for a second believe it's playing for such a big club in such a big ground, this lot are all big boys.
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by Joppe84 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:17 am

@FoxyAV wrote:
@Joppe84 wrote:
@FoxyAV wrote:
@Joppe84 wrote:OR how he has largely signed utter shit players.

That's a bit unfair. In January we signed Johnstone on loan, Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan, the last three of whom came to use with excellent stats from their previous clubs. Excluding Johnstone for a minute I still think the other three are excellent players, they're just being played badly by Bruce. I still maintain that either Lansbury or Onomah played next to Hourihane would be a considerable improvement over having Whelan there plus I'd play Grealish and Hogan ahead of them, even with Davis available.

Whelan and Elmo, yes, pointless. We already had three RBs, there wasn't any point adding a winger to play there. His positioning is so bad I wonder what Bruce thought Chester and Johnstone had done to weaken the defence by playing him, especially with Whelan in front. What a perfect invitation to any opposition manager with any nous to exploit.

Ok I'll admit that was poorly worded. I've actually always liked Johnstone so that was a good signing, though I think we should have looked at a permanent signing. Hourihane has worked out.

The rest of his signings, bar Terry (whom I'll admit I got wrong) has been shite. It's not that I claim they are all shite players, but ultimately they are shite Villa players and Bruce has failed in the market. Hogan, Elmo, Lansbury, Samba and Whelan are all fucking awful signings on high wages.

I reckon Hogan is an excellent player  

I don't. I reckon he is bang average, but better than what we've seen so far. Lansbury is definately not an excellent player. Not even close. But it's all opinions I guess.

Major point is that most of these players are capable of better, but that requires a proper manager.
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:49 am

We're only six points better off now than we were at this stage last season, the worst thing about it is that with the exception of Wolves there are no standout teams this season, and Bruce still manages to have us way off the pace, Bristol City, Cardiff and Wolves, could be nine, thirteen and seventeen points ahead of us respectively before we even play Sheffield United.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:32 am

Clement's available, would at least have us attempting to play football, and could salvage our season like he did with Swansea last season.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by AstonThriller on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:38 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:We're only six points better off now than we were at this stage last season, the worst thing about it is that with the exception of Wolves there are no standout teams this season, and Bruce still manages to have us way off the pace, Bristol City, Cardiff and Wolves, could be nine, thirteen and seventeen points ahead of us respectively before we even play Sheffield United.

To be fair to potato head we have had a lot of injuries whilst the other teams haven't. There is still half a season to go and a lot can happen in that time. Getting back to winning ways on Saturday will of course be crucial and if we can just keep pace with the others until January then we should be fine. Ultimately though as long as we're in and around that top six I guess the board will be happy because aspirations of promotion will still be realistic.
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:58 am

Yes against my better judgement, there's still a part of me that's thinking if we can have a good Christmas period, and close the gap on top two to about six or seven points, with a decent amount of games still to go, we still might yet have a chance, it's just having that 'good Christmas period' that's the problem. Just our luck that as we have our difficult run, all of Cardiff, Bristol City and Wolves have a run of relatively easy games.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by achilles on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:02 am

@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:We're only six points better off now than we were at this stage last season, the worst thing about it is that with the exception of Wolves there are no standout teams this season, and Bruce still manages to have us way off the pace, Bristol City, Cardiff and Wolves, could be nine, thirteen and seventeen points ahead of us respectively before we even play Sheffield United.

To be fair to potato head we have had a lot of injuries whilst the other teams haven't. There is still half a season to go and a lot can happen in that time. Getting back to winning ways on Saturday will of course be crucial and if we can just keep pace with the others until January then we should be fine. Ultimately though as long as we're in and around that top six I guess the board will be happy because aspirations of promotion will still be realistic.

Interesting this because this is our great 'cop out' because I heard last weekend that Cardiff has had a load of injuries and they are just coming back so they should get better when they have all their players back.
To be honest I can't be bothered to check but I would imagine to a certain degree it is probably right, you could always question whether your injured players are more important than the other teams injured players but it is because we don't support the other teams we don't hear about them so much.

I suppose my point is that all teams have injuries, it is how they cope with them that decides if they are going to be successful and with our impressive squad we should cope better than most of the teams in the championship but currently we aren't as Bruce said last weekend it was a blow to lose Davis (this is a 19 year old kid that we are now relying on, it beggars belief)!
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by jimbop on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:20 am

@achilles wrote:
@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:We're only six points better off now than we were at this stage last season, the worst thing about it is that with the exception of Wolves there are no standout teams this season, and Bruce still manages to have us way off the pace, Bristol City, Cardiff and Wolves, could be nine, thirteen and seventeen points ahead of us respectively before we even play Sheffield United.

To be fair to potato head we have had a lot of injuries whilst the other teams haven't. There is still half a season to go and a lot can happen in that time. Getting back to winning ways on Saturday will of course be crucial and if we can just keep pace with the others until January then we should be fine. Ultimately though as long as we're in and around that top six I guess the board will be happy because aspirations of promotion will still be realistic.

Interesting this because this is our great 'cop out' because I heard last weekend that Cardiff has had a load of injuries and they are just coming back so they should get better when they have all their players back.
To be honest I can't be bothered to check but I would imagine to a certain degree it is probably right, you could always question whether your injured players are more important than the other teams injured players but it is because we don't support the other teams we don't hear about them so much.

I suppose my point is that all teams have injuries, it is how they cope with them that decides if they are going to be successful and with our impressive squad we should cope better than most of the teams in the championship but currently we aren't as Bruce said last weekend it was a blow to lose Davis (this is a 19 year old kid that we are now relying on, it beggars belief)!

bollox, NO TEAM in the top 6 has had injurys like us, not even close mate.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:43 am

Even with the injuries Bruce has still had one of the best selection of players in the Championship to choose from, as has been said previously, that' why we've spent all the money that we have done, to give us a squad. Pick any of our staring elevens going through all the season, and you'd struggle to find any stronger, in terms of personnel throughout the division.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by AstonThriller on Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:26 am

I mean, just think about it, IF we had Terry and Kodjia last Saturday does anyone think we would have been that lackluster? No chance imo. This is the list of longterm injuries we've had this season.

Grealish
Green
Terry
Kodjia
Jedinak
Lansbury
Samba
Hogan
De Laet (injured his wrist early in the season)

That's LOT to cope with imo and that's why I'm trying to not be too harsh on the club right now. But, if we get to January and we're still within striking distance whilst also bringing in a few new faces, then there are no excuses, we SHOULD be well in the race.
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by achilles on Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:20 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:I mean, just think about it, IF we had Terry and Kodjia last Saturday does anyone think we would have been that lackluster? No chance imo. This is the list of longterm injuries we've had this season.

Grealish - First start last Saturday after being fit since the 4th November and Bruce says that he doesn't know were Grealish fits in!
Green - No real loss as he wouldn't get in ahead of Adomah and Snodgrass
Terry - Big loss as he brings composure to our defence and we do miss him
Kodjia - Another big loss, although he wasn't right when he came back and looked out of sorts
Jedinak - Basically won't play except as cover for Terry while Whelan is playing, who hasn't missed a game so far
Lansbury - Bruce accepts that Hourihane should have played the other week instead of him, another who is just cover
Samba - Played okay with Chester but no big loss really. Elphick has to be as good as Samba?
Hogan - Bruce doesn't even play him when fit as he just doesn't fit into our style of football
De Laet (injured his wrist early in the season) - Another player who isn't going to really figure except as a squad player

That's LOT to cope with imo and that's why I'm trying to not be too harsh on the club right now. But, if we get to January and we're still within striking distance whilst also bringing in a few new faces, then there are no excuses, we SHOULD be well in the race.

It seems that everybody makes excuses, that is how the world operates without anybody accepting responsibility!
It is how you cope in adversity that makes the man!
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by achilles on Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:26 pm

@jimbop wrote:
@achilles wrote:
@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:We're only six points better off now than we were at this stage last season, the worst thing about it is that with the exception of Wolves there are no standout teams this season, and Bruce still manages to have us way off the pace, Bristol City, Cardiff and Wolves, could be nine, thirteen and seventeen points ahead of us respectively before we even play Sheffield United.

To be fair to potato head we have had a lot of injuries whilst the other teams haven't. There is still half a season to go and a lot can happen in that time. Getting back to winning ways on Saturday will of course be crucial and if we can just keep pace with the others until January then we should be fine. Ultimately though as long as we're in and around that top six I guess the board will be happy because aspirations of promotion will still be realistic.

Interesting this because this is our great 'cop out' because I heard last weekend that Cardiff has had a load of injuries and they are just coming back so they should get better when they have all their players back.
To be honest I can't be bothered to check but I would imagine to a certain degree it is probably right, you could always question whether your injured players are more important than the other teams injured players but it is because we don't support the other teams we don't hear about them so much.

I suppose my point is that all teams have injuries, it is how they cope with them that decides if they are going to be successful and with our impressive squad we should cope better than most of the teams in the championship but currently we aren't as Bruce said last weekend it was a blow to lose Davis (this is a 19 year old kid that we are now relying on, it beggars belief)!

bollox, NO TEAM in the top 6 has had injurys like us, not even close mate.

Basically you say that but you have absolutely no idea, just as I haven't!
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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:42 pm

You are both avoiding the big fucking elephant in that injury discussion. We've had injuries which is correct, but even when we've fielded our best players we've looked shit. We could probably field two first teams and an academy side who could be competitive in this division. Injuries is such a poor excuse. Our shit football is simply due to clueless coaching. Nothing more.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by jimbop on Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:55 pm

@Joppe84 wrote:You are both avoiding the big fucking elephant in that injury discussion. We've had injuries which is correct, but even when we've fielded our best players we've looked shit. We could probably field two first teams and an academy side who could be competitive in this division. Injuries is such a poor excuse. Our shit football is simply due to clueless coaching. Nothing more.


ok Fergie, what manager would you bring in then?

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:21 pm

Literally any manager with some guts would have done a better job than Bruce, all it would have taken is a manager not to treat every game as we're the underdog. I really hope Saturday is his last chance.

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Re: The Steve Bruce thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:48 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Literally any manager with some guts would have done a better job than Bruce, all it would have taken is a manager not to treat every game as we're the underdog. I really hope Saturday is his last chance.
Indeed. And it really isn't your job to find the right candidate either? It's possible to be critical of a professionals work and not have a fucking notebook on who would have done it better, faster or cheaper.

I can point out that a carpenter did a shit job without some fuckwit claiming I need to a) give alternatives to a carpenter that would have done a better job

Steve Bruce has done a fucking shit job with us and you don't need a phd to realize that.
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