Promotion discussion thread
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
I too would love to see Mings at left back eventually as his physical presence defending and attacking would be immense? I think though with his current form at CB he may feel aggrieved if he is pushed out to LB as I am sure he sees himself as a CB?
Hourihane is a disappointment as he should be the creative link in the midfield playing that killer pass but he seems unable to do this apart from at free kicks? Maybe Carroll will be a replacement once fit?
Hourihane is a disappointment as he should be the creative link in the midfield playing that killer pass but he seems unable to do this apart from at free kicks? Maybe Carroll will be a replacement once fit?
DelboyVilla- Posts : 1453
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
DelboyVilla wrote:I too would love to see Mings at left back eventually as his physical presence defending and attacking would be immense? I think though with his current form at CB he may feel aggrieved if he is pushed out to LB as I am sure he sees himself as a CB?
Hourihane is a disappointment as he should be the creative link in the midfield playing that killer pass but he seems unable to do this apart from at free kicks? Maybe Carroll will be a replacement once fit?
Perhaps Hause simply isn't up to the job? It seems a little odd we haven't seen anything of him, surely not another player coming to us injured?
FoxyAV- Posts : 2589
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
Ha use still getting over the shock of playing that first game, he was all over the place, don't think he was match fit might be working on his fitness.lots of walking wounded at the moment.lets see if we can win tonight.UTV
Army villain- Posts : 603
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
Time to close this thread for this season.
big ming- Posts : 497
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
Just looking forward to the summer clear out now. Another game where nobody at stepped up to put a performance in. Abraham won’t get another goal all season with the players behind him.
Dazzle- Posts : 1153
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
If you were just looking at the points situation, you could say that it's far from over. Unfortunately you have to look at how the team are performing as well, and how likely it is that they're capable of going on a run, and we're showing nothing whatsoever to suggest, we can string a couple of wins together, never mind enough to turn our season around.
deadbuzz- Posts : 191
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
FoxyAV wrote:DelboyVilla wrote:I too would love to see Mings at left back eventually as his physical presence defending and attacking would be immense? I think though with his current form at CB he may feel aggrieved if he is pushed out to LB as I am sure he sees himself as a CB?
Hourihane is a disappointment as he should be the creative link in the midfield playing that killer pass but he seems unable to do this apart from at free kicks? Maybe Carroll will be a replacement once fit?
Perhaps Hause simply isn't up to the job? It seems a little odd we haven't seen anything of him, surely not another player coming to us injured?
Tonight I think we got the answer to the Hause question! Unfortunately he was not alone either! Poor midfielders, disinterested wingers and nervy defenders! I cannot see how this team can get a win at the moment never mind a run of wins?
DelboyVilla- Posts : 1453
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
I called Hause out as dogshit after his first cameo which felt slightly harsh but he didn't look like a professional footballer at all. I didn't see last night's game and am waiting to view the highlights but it sounds like I won't see anything to change my mind. The fucking Dogheads have had the last laugh there.
VTID85- Posts : 893
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
We now need to win all our remaining thirteen games just to equal last season's points total. We're still in February with a little under a quarter of the season still to go, and already our promotion chances are dead, which pretty much says it all about how rubbish we've been.
Seeing comments across social media, about looking forward to the summer when Smith can bring in his own players. But we say similar every year, it's always going to be either a new manager, new players, or new owners, who get the fans excited that things are going to turn around for us, but when it comes to the actual football, nothing changes. This summer I don't care what happens, we could sign the Barcelona first eleven, and I won't be getting my hopes up, until they actually show they can win football games on a consistent basis.
Seeing comments across social media, about looking forward to the summer when Smith can bring in his own players. But we say similar every year, it's always going to be either a new manager, new players, or new owners, who get the fans excited that things are going to turn around for us, but when it comes to the actual football, nothing changes. This summer I don't care what happens, we could sign the Barcelona first eleven, and I won't be getting my hopes up, until they actually show they can win football games on a consistent basis.
deadbuzz- Posts : 191
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
deadbuzz wrote:We now need to win all our remaining thirteen games just to equal last season's points total. We're still in February with a little under a quarter of the season still to go, and already our promotion chances are dead, which pretty much says it all about how rubbish we've been.
Seeing comments across social media, about looking forward to the summer when Smith can bring in his own players. But we say similar every year, it's always going to be either a new manager, new players, or new owners, who get the fans excited that things are going to turn around for us, but when it comes to the actual football, nothing changes. This summer I don't care what happens, we could sign the Barcelona first eleven, and I won't be getting my hopes up, until they actually show they can win football games on a consistent basis.
With hindsight I don't think the board did the due dilligence of Smith. Brentford finished 5th the season before he took over, they were 11th in the table when Smith took charge he then got them 10th, 10th and 9th - zero improvement - and conceding lots of goals along the way. Sure he didn't have much money, but the Brentford scouting network ensures he has better players than the outlay suggests, Mepham, Maupay....
I think the headline 'Look what Smith did at Brentford' - When you look at it - not really that much.
smetro- Posts : 2831
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
Smith is up against it a bit, relying on Whelan to not really protect the defence or support the attack. If it were me I'd stick Bjarnasson there but since McGinn is banned for two matches I suspect our midfield will be Whelan, Bjarnasson and Hourihane for at least one, if not two, matches. Which doesn't fill me with joy. I'm afraid I've been against Whelan for ages, he shouldn't be starting matches at all. With Jedi out of practice (or too slow) and if Carroll is still injured then we really are screwed. The best of the academy players are out on loan too.
That is, unless we do something really controversial and try a 4-4-2 with Kodji up front with Tammy.
That is, unless we do something really controversial and try a 4-4-2 with Kodji up front with Tammy.
FoxyAV- Posts : 2589
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
FoxyAV wrote:Smith is up against it a bit, relying on Whelan to not really protect the defence or support the attack. If it were me I'd stick Bjarnasson there but since McGinn is banned for two matches I suspect our midfield will be Whelan, Bjarnasson and Hourihane for at least one, if not two, matches. Which doesn't fill me with joy. I'm afraid I've been against Whelan for ages, he shouldn't be starting matches at all. With Jedi out of practice (or too slow) and if Carroll is still injured then we really are screwed. The best of the academy players are out on loan too.
That is, unless we do something really controversial and try a 4-4-2 with Kodji up front with Tammy.
Yes, I think we have realistically run out of midfielders to have it function anything like normal. I think we should give 4-4-2 a go, or perhaps 3-5-2.
...........................Kalinic......................
.........Elphick.........Mings...........Hause.....
Elmo..Ramsey..ElGhazi..Hourihane.Adomah
.................Abraham.........Davis.................
I’m shifting ElGhazi into the advanced midfield role as I think he could do that. Ideally we have Grealish and Lansbury available for selection, or Carrol, but I don’t think we will see them again. I think Davis would work harder than Kodjia alongside Abraham. Line up gets Hutton & Taylor away for a break..........probably until the summer
Dazzle- Posts : 1153
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
smetro wrote:deadbuzz wrote:We now need to win all our remaining thirteen games just to equal last season's points total. We're still in February with a little under a quarter of the season still to go, and already our promotion chances are dead, which pretty much says it all about how rubbish we've been.
Seeing comments across social media, about looking forward to the summer when Smith can bring in his own players. But we say similar every year, it's always going to be either a new manager, new players, or new owners, who get the fans excited that things are going to turn around for us, but when it comes to the actual football, nothing changes. This summer I don't care what happens, we could sign the Barcelona first eleven, and I won't be getting my hopes up, until they actually show they can win football games on a consistent basis.
With hindsight I don't think the board did the due dilligence of Smith. Brentford finished 5th the season before he took over, they were 11th in the table when Smith took charge he then got them 10th, 10th and 9th - zero improvement - and conceding lots of goals along the way. Sure he didn't have much money, but the Brentford scouting network ensures he has better players than the outlay suggests, Mepham, Maupay....
I think the headline 'Look what Smith did at Brentford' - When you look at it - not really that much.
I think with the style of football he had Brentford playing was seen as the antithesis to the defensive football we'd become used to under Bruce, there was an element of fans believing that with our players, that as long as we got someone in who plays attacking football, then we'd see an immediate improvement. The fact that he's a Villa fan played a big part as well, no doubt if that wasn't the case, then there wouldn't have been anywhere near the same amount of people wanting him as our manager.
Smith's appointment is starting to remind me of Paul Heckingbottom's appointment at Leeds last season, both had small club's beginning with B, from the Yorkshire area with small budgets, playing good football, and punching above their weight, and as a consequence both left to manage bigger, and local teams, Heckingbottom had a disastrous run of results at Leeds, which cost him his job, and now Smith is following in a similar fashion.
What he does between now and the end of the season I'm not sure, it's going to be hard to finish on a high though, just by virtue of the fact that whatever happens, it's going to ultimately be another season of disappointment and failure to achieve the objective of getting promoted.
deadbuzz- Posts : 191
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
But we’ve tried the experienced manager and players route & it didn’t work, Smith has been left with an aging unbalanced squad, we have no choice but to write off this season, clear the decks in the summer & try another way.
Look how long Wolves were in this league (or lower) , Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest , it’s not that long ago Man City dropped even lower, we are now paying for bad decisions made over a number of years, give the new regime a chance, we haven’t a choice anyway, we are all VTID aren’t we ?
Look how long Wolves were in this league (or lower) , Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest , it’s not that long ago Man City dropped even lower, we are now paying for bad decisions made over a number of years, give the new regime a chance, we haven’t a choice anyway, we are all VTID aren’t we ?
VillaBill- Posts : 954
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
14 players out of contract this summer. Fourteen. Of that 14 there are 9 that can be counted as contributors to the 1st team this season. We’re heading for a monumental rebuild this summer, and people cannot underestimate the effect of having so many players playing that will know they’ll not be here beyond May. Abraham, Tuanzebe, ElGhazi, Whelan, Jedinak, Steer, Hutton, Green, Hause, Mings, Elphick, Lydon, Bunn, Richards. All of those could depart. The likelihood is that Hause & Green will remain, but the rest will be gone. And hopefully 1 or 2 more that we might raise a few quid from. Shame about Mings as he’s been useful. Even with that lot going we still have the weight of McCormack & Hogan around our ankles, we might get lucky if Sheffield Utd go up and they take Hogan permanently.
Massive change lies ahead, people need to realise where AVFC is at, and accept it. Remember we were nearly as good as dead in the summer, insolvency but days away. We’re just another championship team at this moment in time.
Massive change lies ahead, people need to realise where AVFC is at, and accept it. Remember we were nearly as good as dead in the summer, insolvency but days away. We’re just another championship team at this moment in time.
Dazzle- Posts : 1153
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
I can see us spending the money on Mings, and if he does well, bringing Hogan back. Remember he thrived under Smith at Brentford, and we are all assuming that's the kind of team he's going to try to build at Villa. Hogan didn't fit in with Bruce's, er, style, and he's not going to fit in with the players we have now or displace Abraham so it's sensible to offload him on loan. Assuming we don't go up and we do lose a lot of our players and rebuild under Smith, I can see Hogan brought back and slotted straight into the starting 11.
Remember how he worked his arse off, always chasing down the goalie, always trying to run into space, being slated for not getting enough touches or not being tall enough to collect and hold up the BruceyBall? There's a very good footballer in there.
Remember how he worked his arse off, always chasing down the goalie, always trying to run into space, being slated for not getting enough touches or not being tall enough to collect and hold up the BruceyBall? There's a very good footballer in there.
FoxyAV- Posts : 2589
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
It seems to me from what I've read and from what little I've been able to see, that a big part of the problem is effort from some of the players - whether that was down to the rumoured dressing room bust-up or the fact that so many players are out of contract soon, or because we're adrift in the table with nothing to play for, they're the ones I'm feeling frustrated with. Yes, I do feel that something's going wrong with the defensive coaching, but tactics don't mean too much if some players aren't playing with commitment & until they do & we find ourselves still losing, I'll reserve judgement on Smith.
Forget all this point-counting until we get to the PL - I know that you can't make changes with PL money, but in an ideal world I don't want us going up until everything is going well enough that we're smashing it all the way to the top two.
Forget all this point-counting until we get to the PL - I know that you can't make changes with PL money, but in an ideal world I don't want us going up until everything is going well enough that we're smashing it all the way to the top two.
Dions_Bald_Head- Posts : 1052
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
Dions_Bald_Head wrote:It seems to me from what I've read and from what little I've been able to see, that a big part of the problem is effort from some of the players - whether that was down to the rumoured dressing room bust-up or the fact that so many players are out of contract soon, or because we're adrift in the table with nothing to play for, they're the ones I'm feeling frustrated with. Yes, I do feel that something's going wrong with the defensive coaching, but tactics don't mean too much if some players aren't playing with commitment & until they do & we find ourselves still losing, I'll reserve judgement on Smith.
Forget all this point-counting until we get to the PL - I know that you can't make changes with PL money, but in an ideal world I don't want us going up until everything is going well enough that we're smashing it all the way to the top two.
I agree with you about us not being ready for the PL.
I watched some of the Chelsea/ManU match last night, their movement and energy levels were what we need to be watching. You can see all the players constantly moving into space or to cover the opposition, depending on which way the ball is going. I turned it off in the end because it's completely opposite to what we have. That's why I keep going back to Hogan, he was always moving for us, always looking for gaps to run into, for balls the wrong side of the defender he was nearest to, whatever.
There are some positives though for next season. Chester and Mings are going to make a superb defensive partnership, assuming we can keep him. We have a new RB over in France. The search for a LB will be ongoing and the goalie I think is really promising. I don't recall Gollini, Johnstone or Nyeland starting as well and I think he can only improve.
That's where it stops. I'd like us to keep Green, and it would be good to hear that O'Hare and Blackett-Taylor, in particular, are coming back from loan and able to step up. Hogan you all know I would like back. McGinn will do a good job and it will be a miracle if we keep Grealish.
Going back to how we're playing now, Albert worries me. From our top scorer last season to nothing this, he's not happy. I can't see him holding it against us fans, so what's going on? Does he want to play on the left but isn't being allowed to?
FoxyAV- Posts : 2589
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
FoxyAV wrote:Dions_Bald_Head wrote:It seems to me from what I've read and from what little I've been able to see, that a big part of the problem is effort from some of the players - whether that was down to the rumoured dressing room bust-up or the fact that so many players are out of contract soon, or because we're adrift in the table with nothing to play for, they're the ones I'm feeling frustrated with. Yes, I do feel that something's going wrong with the defensive coaching, but tactics don't mean too much if some players aren't playing with commitment & until they do & we find ourselves still losing, I'll reserve judgement on Smith.
Forget all this point-counting until we get to the PL - I know that you can't make changes with PL money, but in an ideal world I don't want us going up until everything is going well enough that we're smashing it all the way to the top two.
I agree with you about us not being ready for the PL.
I watched some of the Chelsea/ManU match last night, their movement and energy levels were what we need to be watching. You can see all the players constantly moving into space or to cover the opposition, depending on which way the ball is going. I turned it off in the end because it's completely opposite to what we have. That's why I keep going back to Hogan, he was always moving for us, always looking for gaps to run into, for balls the wrong side of the defender he was nearest to, whatever.
There are some positives though for next season. Chester and Mings are going to make a superb defensive partnership, assuming we can keep him. We have a new RB over in France. The search for a LB will be ongoing and the goalie I think is really promising. I don't recall Gollini, Johnstone or Nyeland starting as well and I think he can only improve.
That's where it stops. I'd like us to keep Green, and it would be good to hear that O'Hare and Blackett-Taylor, in particular, are coming back from loan and able to step up. Hogan you all know I would like back. McGinn will do a good job and it will be a miracle if we keep Grealish.
Going back to how we're playing now, Albert worries me. From our top scorer last season to nothing this, he's not happy. I can't see him holding it against us fans, so what's going on? Does he want to play on the left but isn't being allowed to?
I wouldn’t bet on Mings being here, unfortunately. I believe the only option we have on him is an equivalence type agreement? So I think he’ll prove to be (a) too expensive (b) too good and will get plucked up by a Premier League outfit. No chance at all of retaining Grealish in the championship for another season, and with Chester entering his final year he will be susceptible to offers, we’re in no position now to have players such as him leave for nothing. The wage bill has to be slashed still further to make us viable for a further season in the championship. I’d estimate around £17m in salary to be disappearing with out of contract players leaving this summer, more if we lose 1 or 2 still under contract. Ideally we get something for elmohamady & taylor (maybe £1-2m for the pair) and we’d get circa £30m for Grealish. Bottom line is that I think everyone has a sale price this summer, and that it’s money we’ll need. That would have been the scenario for Fulham last summer had they not gotten promoted.
Dazzle- Posts : 1153
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
Yes, you're right. We have to match what another club offers. Dammit!
I wonder still what the owners' situation is with regards to money. They clearly have a lot of it but could we see the stadium sponsored or whatever?
I wonder still what the owners' situation is with regards to money. They clearly have a lot of it but could we see the stadium sponsored or whatever?
FoxyAV- Posts : 2589
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
Well according to the BM the owners stuck in another 13m recently?
I feel that any summer rebuild will be funded by selling Super Jack which I have no problem with as he has served his time with us in the lower leagues and deserves a chance at the big league again. The Dr X gamble is still costing us and Smiths buys/loans so far look OK and at least useful for the first team?
I think we have to give Smith more time and a summer to rebuild and instill his style, he deserves at least that?
I feel that any summer rebuild will be funded by selling Super Jack which I have no problem with as he has served his time with us in the lower leagues and deserves a chance at the big league again. The Dr X gamble is still costing us and Smiths buys/loans so far look OK and at least useful for the first team?
I think we have to give Smith more time and a summer to rebuild and instill his style, he deserves at least that?
DelboyVilla- Posts : 1453
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
They've liberated more shares.
Jack's quite literally out of our league. As we've seen of late we need to be able to succeed this league without him (although his absence has just highlighted who is making the effort and who isn't). It would be great if we could win the league with him but I don't think any persuading is going to keep him here for that one last season when he could be going for big boy titles with Spurs and breaking into the England squad (when was the last time a Championship player played for England?).
Jack's quite literally out of our league. As we've seen of late we need to be able to succeed this league without him (although his absence has just highlighted who is making the effort and who isn't). It would be great if we could win the league with him but I don't think any persuading is going to keep him here for that one last season when he could be going for big boy titles with Spurs and breaking into the England squad (when was the last time a Championship player played for England?).
FoxyAV- Posts : 2589
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
How ever much I would love Jack to stay next season and us build a side around him it would be cruel to expect him to do so.
I also think we will need the cash from his sale to rebuild.
I we can hope is the rebuild is done sustainably and sensibly unlike previous years?
I also think we will need the cash from his sale to rebuild.
I we can hope is the rebuild is done sustainably and sensibly unlike previous years?
DelboyVilla- Posts : 1453
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
Not a bad set of results for us this evening, really. The main result being that Bristol City lost again, which in reality is the last playoff spot up for grabs to us. Looking at the table now, you could realistically still look down to Brentford in 16th place as contenders for 6th place. That’s 11 clubs! Somebody in that 11 will put a run of wins together that could steal 6th
Dazzle- Posts : 1153
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Re: Promotion discussion thread
If Bristol City win their game in hand, then we'll be eleven points off sixth place, if they don't, we'll still need Derby to lose their game in hand, because that would mean us being nine points off top six. Then there's the small matter of us needing to win our own games, before we even look at what anyone else is doing, to be fair we've got games coming up against Derby, Small Heath, Forest, and Middlesbrough, if we were to go on a winning run against those teams, then we'd put ourselves back into contention for a late surge.
But it's always the same with us, we say we need to do this and that, or if we do this and that, then we'll be in such and such position, but we never actually do what we need to do, this saturday for example, we'll probably draw with Derby at best.
But it's always the same with us, we say we need to do this and that, or if we do this and that, then we'll be in such and such position, but we never actually do what we need to do, this saturday for example, we'll probably draw with Derby at best.
deadbuzz- Posts : 191
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