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Promotion discussion thread

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by smetro on Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:20 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:At the latest AGM, Round said that the 'Villa Engine' is about hard work, passion and getting the ball into the box to a 'no.9', Wyness also said that if the manager leaves, he wants as many of the coaches to stay as possible, and to bring in another manager 'who fits the existing philosophy'.

So even if Bruce does leave, I'm not hopeful that's it going to herald a new way of doing things, someone with a similar approach to Bruce will be brought in, i.e someone who's less about tactics and more about hard work and getting stuck in, which is what Round's 'Villa engine' appears to be about, why it's being talked about as a new philosphy introduced to the club, I don't know, things like pride, and passion should be a given, and the coaching that we instill in our players from a young age should be about an actual way of playing the game, not tired old British football cliches.

No offence - but hadn't you already realised that ?. Bruce has got us into the play offs so even if we fail to go up, he has come pretty damn close, you could argue he could have done more with available resources - however the hard nosed people who are charged with delivering results will see that Bruce has taken us from the bottom, up to the play offs - should Bruce leave the end of the season - the club isn't going throw away all what Bruce did - and bring in some unknown coach from overseas, they will look for a better version of Steve Bruce.
Albion fans must be distraught tonight as mick mccarthy is now favourite for the wba job- easy to see why.... he builds solid championship sides on very little cash. Its ok for the fans to scream for a progressive manager - but the board have to get results - sure look at Wagner, Pochenito - but then theres a whole host of others who just totally bomb - but just get forgotten.

I remember back in Ron Saunders days, Malcolm Allison, John Bond, Jim Smith took all the plaudits for entertaining football - whilst Ron Saunders managed villa with an Iron fist, and once said 'theres a lot of rubbish talked about entertaining football'
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by De Kuip on Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:55 am

OT I know but I recently read Ron Saunders biography and there's a bit in it when one of the player's wives - can't remember who - approached Saunders at some club function and gushingly said to him "my husband bet me that if I can get more than 3 words out if you, he'll buy me a brand new car!".
Saunders responded "You lose" and walked off.
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:56 am

@smetro wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:At the latest AGM, Round said that the 'Villa Engine' is about hard work, passion and getting the ball into the box to a 'no.9', Wyness also said that if the manager leaves, he wants as many of the coaches to stay as possible, and to bring in another manager 'who fits the existing philosophy'.

So even if Bruce does leave, I'm not hopeful that's it going to herald a new way of doing things, someone with a similar approach to Bruce will be brought in, i.e someone who's less about tactics and more about hard work and getting stuck in, which is what Round's 'Villa engine' appears to be about, why it's being talked about as a new philosphy introduced to the club, I don't know, things like pride, and passion should be a given, and the coaching that we instill in our players from a young age should be about an actual way of playing the game, not tired old British football cliches.

No offence - but hadn't you already realised that ?. Bruce has got us into the play offs so even if we fail to go up,  he has come pretty damn close, you could argue he could have done more with available resources - however the hard nosed people who are charged with delivering results will see that Bruce has taken us from the bottom, up to the play offs - should Bruce leave the end of the season - the club isn't going throw away all what Bruce did - and bring in some unknown coach from overseas, they will look for a better version of Steve Bruce.
Albion fans must be distraught tonight as mick mccarthy is now favourite for the wba job- easy to see why.... he builds solid championship sides on very little cash. Its ok for the fans to scream for a progressive manager - but the board have to get results - sure look at Wagner, Pochenito - but then theres a whole host of others who just totally bomb - but just get forgotten.

I remember back in Ron Saunders days, Malcolm Allison, John Bond, Jim Smith took all the plaudits for entertaining football - whilst Ron Saunders managed villa with an Iron fist, and once said 'theres a lot of rubbish talked about entertaining football'

Coming close isn't good enough, with the resources Bruce has had available, Wyness himself said as much at the start of the season and has hinted the same the other week, this idea that Bruce has taken us from the bottom is a myth as well. A better version of Bruce, is someone with actual tactics, and who gets their team playing football, not another identikit manager from the UK managerial merrygoround who's approach will be identical to all the managers that we've seen fail since over the last eight or so years.

And Mick McCarthy won't get anywhere near the West Brom job, he's only favourite because Wolves fans are putting money on him to wind up the Albion fans; he's more likely to end up here should we fail to get promoted.

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by smetro on Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:02 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:
@smetro wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:At the latest AGM, Round said that the 'Villa Engine' is about hard work, passion and getting the ball into the box to a 'no.9', Wyness also said that if the manager leaves, he wants as many of the coaches to stay as possible, and to bring in another manager 'who fits the existing philosophy'.

So even if Bruce does leave, I'm not hopeful that's it going to herald a new way of doing things, someone with a similar approach to Bruce will be brought in, i.e someone who's less about tactics and more about hard work and getting stuck in, which is what Round's 'Villa engine' appears to be about, why it's being talked about as a new philosphy introduced to the club, I don't know, things like pride, and passion should be a given, and the coaching that we instill in our players from a young age should be about an actual way of playing the game, not tired old British football cliches.

No offence - but hadn't you already realised that ?. Bruce has got us into the play offs so even if we fail to go up,  he has come pretty damn close, you could argue he could have done more with available resources - however the hard nosed people who are charged with delivering results will see that Bruce has taken us from the bottom, up to the play offs - should Bruce leave the end of the season - the club isn't going throw away all what Bruce did - and bring in some unknown coach from overseas, they will look for a better version of Steve Bruce.
Albion fans must be distraught tonight as mick mccarthy is now favourite for the wba job- easy to see why.... he builds solid championship sides on very little cash. Its ok for the fans to scream for a progressive manager - but the board have to get results - sure look at Wagner, Pochenito - but then theres a whole host of others who just totally bomb - but just get forgotten.

I remember back in Ron Saunders days, Malcolm Allison, John Bond, Jim Smith took all the plaudits for entertaining football - whilst Ron Saunders managed villa with an Iron fist, and once said 'theres a lot of rubbish talked about entertaining football'

Coming close isn't good enough, with the resources Bruce has had available, Wyness himself said as much at the start of the season and has hinted the same the other week, this idea that Bruce has taken us from the bottom is a myth as well. A better version of Bruce, is someone with actual tactics, and who gets their team playing football, not another identikit manager from the UK managerial merrygoround  who's approach will be identical to all the managers that we've seen fail since over the last eight or so years.

And Mick McCarthy won't get anywhere near the West Brom job, he's only favourite because Wolves fans are putting money on him to wind up the Albion fans; he's more likely to end up here should we fail to get promoted.

I know its not good enough. But the question is ...
is it bad enough to recruit a manager the polar opposite of Bruce and shift the club is a completely different direction ?

I don't actually think they will sack Bruce. He might walk due to lack of funds. I think what Wyness is saying is that they would look to build on the work Bruce has done.
If we were 5th bottom they might look at a wholesale change of direction - but with a likely finish of 4th I don't think they will.
The touted 'progressive manager' is a bit of myth IMO - look at what warnock has done in a short space of time, Pullis at Boro, Rowett, wilder, -
Jovanic - who I doubt would come anyway - has amassed a massive 2 points more than us.....




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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:29 pm

I thought Bruce would be here to stay providing we reach the play-offs, but after the AGM with Round and Wyness I'm not so sure now; besides regardless of whether the club want him or not, he might decide to take a break from the game after the upsetting times in his personal life.

Warnock's done well at Cardiff, but this season has been a perfect storm for them, reminds me of Leicester when they won the league, I still wouldn't be surprised if they finished above Wolves. Pullis has done okay, but not amazing, they do okay against average teams, but come unstuck against the better ones. Wilder's doing well, but Sheffield United actually play decent football, so I wouldn't brand him as an old fashioned typical British manager.

If you look at the teams that have done well this season, and in recent seasons, they're all managers with some tactical nous, who've got their teams playing decent football.

Next season I'd be happy with Dean Smith if we're still in this division, and if we get promoted I'd go for Marco Silva. Jokanović has been linked with Chelsea recently, only chance we'd have of getting him is if we go up and Fulham don't, they've only got two more points than us, but at the beginning of December they were ten points behind us, since then they've been comfortably the best team in the league, besides they've had a fraction of our budget.

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:02 pm

We need a weekend where results go our way for once, to give us a glimmer of hope in the darkness.

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:38 pm

Our contract with Under Armour cancelled, sign of things to come if we don't go up, elite brands won't want to be associated with us. Not only will we miss out on the Premier league money, but it will also be a commercial disaster. With the possibility of bouncing straight back up, we still had a chance of attracting big deals, but the more we're established as a Championship club, the less we can do.

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by FoxyAV on Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:02 pm

I still think Bruce shouldn't be in charge of tactics or team selection and he should be left to do whatever it is the club thinks he's good at. If he doesn't like it, well, he can leave and we'll get in someone else.
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:55 pm

Just when we need them to win, Nuno decideds to experiment with the Wolves attack and play two out and out strikers for the first time this season.

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by De Kuip on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:19 pm

Wolves 1-0 up
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by De Kuip on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:42 pm

And Ruddy saved a pen.
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:43 pm

Cardiff miss two penalties in injury time, if that doesn't give us the motivation win against Norwich I'm not sure what will. Should be a big psychological blow for them as well.


Last edited by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by FoxyAV on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:44 pm

Not just one penalty, Cardiff had two (92 and 94 minutes), first was saved and second was missed! Remarkable.
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by VTID85 on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:44 pm

Fuck me that was a brilliant bit of stoppage time. Heroic performance from Ruddy and a 2nd missed penalty for Cardiff. Totally ridiculous and Warnock's face just about ready to drip of his miserable fucking skull.
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by UnclePanda on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:49 pm

If Cardiff dont go up now... itll be feckin hilarious!
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:14 pm

Win the next three games and we'll be two points ahead of Cardiff this time next week. Only downside are that they'll have two games in hand, and us winning three games in a row isn't very likely, Fulham also have a bunch of easy games coming up as well.

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by De Kuip on Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:01 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:Win the next three games and we'll be two points ahead of Cardiff this time next week. Only downside are that they'll have two games in hand, and us winning three games in a row isn't very likely, Fulham also have a bunch of easy games coming up as well.
That's ok we'll do Cardiff in the play offs!
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by Villa_Dan on Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:23 am

Warnock summing up exactly why I can't stand the witch-faced prick
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by The Utterer on Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:32 pm

What a bunch of bottlers. Nothing else to be said, just a total bunch of bottlers, how do you blow it so many times in the same season? Awful.
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by AstonThriller on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:46 pm

I think the lack of depth In vital positions are coming home to roost now. Who steps In when Adomah, Grealish, Snodgrass etc are either injured or out of form? Maybe Onomah for Grealish, but there is simply not enough competition where creative midfielders/wingers are concerned and these two games a week are taking it's toll by the looks of it. Is it a coincidence that the two shocking defeats against QPR and Norwich came after big wins three or four days earlier?

Now hopefully we secure the play-off spot with two more wins and then we will see where the chips will fall. Bruce has done It twice through the playoffs before and our squad Is packed with experienced players who have won big games this season (Wolves/Blues etc) so we'll see. Whatever happens though I hope this is Bruce's last season at this club. I just don't think the guy is good enough and we'll be eaten alive If we go up and keep him In-charge.

IF we don't go up though I'd be looking at someone foreign or two younger managers In the championship like Alex Neil and Lee Johnson.
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:53 am

Only way I can see us going up now is if we stumble into the play-offs, the other teams have off games against us, and it coincides with Kodjia coming into form, avoiding Cardiff or Fulham in the semis would probably also help, whilst hoping that whoever they do play causes an upset, so we wouldn't have to play them in the final.

Another thing that gives me a bit of hope is that under Bruce we seem to go from good run of results to bad run of results and back again, so hopefully we're due a good run soon.

But it really is hard at the moment seeing us being anything other than a championship team next season, anytime we have a chance to do something we crumble, so I'm not sure how that's going to change in the play-offs (should we qualify).

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by Dazzle on Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:44 am

Things we need to happen for us; (1) We require Birmingham to still be fighting for survival points come the final game of the season at home to Fulham. (2) a Millwall win at home to Fulham would be just the tonic. (3) Win our remaining games. (4) Hope that Cardiff are now unsettled enough to drop another couple of results or three. (5) in the absence of the previous four points coming undone, could we kindly have Fulham to finish 2nd an Cardiff 3rd!
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by The Utterer on Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:53 pm

We're almost in the "still a mathematical possibility" territory really, i'd say about a 5% chance of automatic promotion so am now just pleased we are one win from assuring our place in this years lottery.

Warnock is just a spiteful cock though with his post match digs etc as normal. Vile creature.
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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:54 pm

Derby lose, so looks like we're going to finish at least fourth, which presumably gives us the advantage of playing the second leg in the play-offs at Villa Park, which should be a big advantage.

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Re: Promotion discussion thread

Post by De Kuip on Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:02 am

Yeah that derby loss was a good outcome and I think a few of those around us play each other before season's end.
I'm gearing up for the lottery that is the play offs, as surely that's where it's heading.
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