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Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by FoxyAV on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:27 am

AstonThriller wrote:Thor= He was so vulnerable back there it was ridiculous. Clearly not a defender but to his credit he did try. Although tbh I'm struggling to see what he brings to the table really.

I read this and immediately thought he's the Icelandic Leandro Bacuna. Which sounds like a very disappointing chant.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:58 am

I won't dismiss him yet, but I saw enough of him during preseason to immediately think he is a total flop. Don't think he will cut it.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by FoxyAV on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:15 am

Green hasn't looked as good so far as I'd hoped and Thor isn't a winger. We need a proper left winger as a matter of urgency, hopefully Snodgrass is more than a rumour. I'd play Green in the reserves and in cup matches and have him as backup but I think there is a really good player in there.

It's still early days but O'Hare, Davis and Audrey look like the kind of homegrown players we've been waiting for and like busses three come along at once. Grealish really does have competition in the shape of O'Hare. It would be great to think that there's a chance we could sign Onomah if he and we do well but I have a sinking feeling he's going to be brilliant for us and head straight back to Spurs at the end of the year.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:05 am

mefromhere wrote:
O'Hare is just as good as Grealish

It's hard to say for sure based on a lower league match, but so far I'd say he is better than Grealish.

There are some very important abilities in football like work rate, aggression, tenacity, determination, fight etc. Possibly more important in Scandinavian and English leagues than the southern European ones, but I digress. O'Hare has it in spades or buckets (whatever you prefer). Grealish doesn't. I honestly think I saw O'Hare play with more urgency, directness and fight yesterday than I saw Grealish do for the entire last season.

It doesn't mean O'Hare will maintain it, but so far the signs are promising.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by FoxyAV on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:13 am

Joppe84 wrote:
mefromhere wrote:
O'Hare is just as good as Grealish

It's hard to say for sure based on a lower league match, but so far I'd say he is better than Grealish.

There are some very important abilities in football like work rate, aggression, tenacity, determination, fight etc. Possibly more important in Scandinavian and English leagues than the southern European ones, but I digress.  O'Hare has it in spades or buckets (whatever you prefer). Grealish doesn't. I honestly think I saw O'Hare play with more urgency, directness and fight yesterday than I saw Grealish do for the entire last season.

It doesn't mean O'Hare will maintain it, but so far the signs are promising.

Grealish looked like that when he first hit the first team but had it beaten out of him by constant fouling by opposition. He's now more composed and slightly more bulky and finally Bruce has recognised he's a number 10 and not a winger. So it's not really a fair comparison. What I don't disagree with you about though is how good O'Hare looks and I really do hope he's immediately promoted to the first team. With the 4-4-1-1 we have the luxury of an O'Hare or Grealish and if Gabby isn't going to play up front with Hogan (I wonder if we'll see Gabby on left wing?) and both Hourihane and Lansbury not making a convincing case for themselves, it has to be down to Onomah playing alongside Whelan or in that number 10 role ahead of Whelan and Lansbury.

I wonder if we might even see Onomah on the left wing. He looked good enough last night to play pretty much anywhere in midfield. Didn't notice though if he was much cop in defence.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:19 am

I just can't agree. I've watched Grealish for years now and he hasn't had the energy and fight kicked out of him as he has never had it. Grealish is good on the ball, but the aspects mentioned above isn't his forte at all. If Grealish had that he would be with a premier league side now.

As an example O'Hare was kicked to shit a couple of times last night. He got up and shok it off. Grealish would have rolled on the grass for ages.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by DelboyVilla on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:32 am

Well that was a proper banana skin avoided there?

As everyone else has said it was great to see the kids given a run out and I hope that Bruce does reward good performances with league run outs too. I would hate to see poor performing 'old guard' reinstated when it looks like some of the young ones are good enough. Early days yet though.

Onomah looked the real deal and impressed how he kept the ball under pressure like Barry used to (with more pace obviously). And any of our strikers would love to play with O'Hare.

Onwards and upwards!

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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:35 am

O'Hare looks good and I'd seriously consider playing him in the first eleven at the moment, but I don't think he's as talented as Grealish, when Grealish broke into our team he looked a class above everyone else and that was against premier league opposition, also I haven't looked at the stats but I think it's a bit of a myth that he doesn't work hard, he might not work as hard as some, but he's not lazy either.

O'Hare kind of reminds me Weimann.

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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by jimbop on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:35 am

Joppe84 wrote:I just can't agree. I've watched Grealish for years now and he hasn't had the energy and fight kicked out of him  as he has never had it. Grealish is good on the ball, but the aspects mentioned above isn't his forte at all. If Grealish had that he would be with a premier league side now.

As an example O'Hare was kicked to shit a couple of times last night. He got up and shok it off. Grealish would have rolled on the grass for ages.

I think the emergence of ohare is gonna give grealish a good kick up the arse, for years now its been grealish grealish grealish, now theres a new kid on the block so step it up jacko, now or never.

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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by achilles on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:39 am

Thanks for the team appraisal @AstonThriller.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by FoxyAV on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:43 am

Joppe84 wrote:I just can't agree. I've watched Grealish for years now and he hasn't had the energy and fight kicked out of him  as he has never had it. Grealish is good on the ball, but the aspects mentioned above isn't his forte at all. If Grealish had that he would be with a premier league side now.

As an example O'Hare was kicked to shit a couple of times last night. He got up and shok it off. Grealish would have rolled on the grass for ages.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I see a completely different Grealish to you and have been waiting for him to be played in his correct position and now that's finally happened... he's out for a few months.

I do reckon though that if O'Hare's given a run it could well be very hard for Grealish to get back into the team! On the other hand, I also wonder where Hogan and Kodjia fit in together. Hogan's going to have to start banging in goals. It's a shame he and Kodjia don't seem to be able to play together, it's been a while since we've had two top class strikers available and last time we did, Bent was quickly sidelined in favour of Benteke and a counter-attack system, which also did for Weimann.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by jimbop on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:45 am

FoxyAV wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:I just can't agree. I've watched Grealish for years now and he hasn't had the energy and fight kicked out of him  as he has never had it. Grealish is good on the ball, but the aspects mentioned above isn't his forte at all. If Grealish had that he would be with a premier league side now.

As an example O'Hare was kicked to shit a couple of times last night. He got up and shok it off. Grealish would have rolled on the grass for ages.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I see a completely different Grealish to you and have been waiting for him to be played in his correct position and now that's finally happened... he's out for a few months.

I do reckon though that if O'Hare's given a run it could well be very hard for Grealish to get back into the team! On the other hand, I also wonder where Hogan and Kodjia fit in together. Hogan's going to have to start banging in goals. It's a shame he and Kodjia don't seem to be able to play together, it's been a while since we've had two top class strikers available and last time we did, Bent was quickly sidelined in favour of Benteke and a counter-attack system, which also did for Weimann.

Have Hogan and kodj really played together that much to say they cant play together?? maybe I'm wrong but I don't think they have

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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by achilles on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:52 am

O'Hare could certainly play in the number 10 role until Kodjia comes back and then it it is back to the drawing board as Kodjia plays by himself.

Perhaps Onomah might be able to take over that role?
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:57 am

deadbuzzardalive wrote:
O'Hare kind of reminds me Weimann.

I'd say that's accurate. Weimann had the abilities I mentioned above, but I think O'Hare looks slightly better technical. Even if it's hard to tell after a couple of senior matches.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by FoxyAV on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:57 am

jimbop wrote:
FoxyAV wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:I just can't agree. I've watched Grealish for years now and he hasn't had the energy and fight kicked out of him  as he has never had it. Grealish is good on the ball, but the aspects mentioned above isn't his forte at all. If Grealish had that he would be with a premier league side now.

As an example O'Hare was kicked to shit a couple of times last night. He got up and shok it off. Grealish would have rolled on the grass for ages.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I see a completely different Grealish to you and have been waiting for him to be played in his correct position and now that's finally happened... he's out for a few months.

I do reckon though that if O'Hare's given a run it could well be very hard for Grealish to get back into the team! On the other hand, I also wonder where Hogan and Kodjia fit in together. Hogan's going to have to start banging in goals. It's a shame he and Kodjia don't seem to be able to play together, it's been a while since we've had two top class strikers available and last time we did, Bent was quickly sidelined in favour of Benteke and a counter-attack system, which also did for Weimann.

Have Hogan and kodj really played together that much to say they cant play together?? maybe I'm wrong but I don't think they have

They played together a few times last season and while Hogan gave it a good shot, Kodja wanted to do it all on his own. There's a good chance Bruce will play Hogan behind Kodjia and while it might work, it might also be better to have Grealish, O'Hare or even Onomah sitting behind him. As Hogan's a Bruce signing and a proven goalscorer you'd have to assume Bruce will be concentrating on finding how to make the two strikers work together, especially now Grealish is out for half the season, O'Hare is untried and Onomah is probably destined to play alongside Whelan.

Watching Bruce bring on Samba against Hull just reminded me of Lambert vs Bradford where we ended up with four (five?) strikers up front and the ball lumped forward every time a defender or the goalie touched it. It's not the answer and nor is playing someone who knows how to score goals out of position instead of a correct player for that position who may well help us score more goals overall. Or to put it another way, I hate it when someone is played out of position.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:00 am

FoxyAV wrote:
AstonThriller wrote:Thor= He was so vulnerable back there it was ridiculous. Clearly not a defender but to his credit he did try. Although tbh I'm struggling to see what he brings to the table really.

I read this and immediately thought he's the Icelandic Leandro Bacuna. Which sounds like a very disappointing chant.

Thor is like a very very shit version of Antonio Valencia.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by jimbop on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:07 am

FoxyAV wrote:
jimbop wrote:
FoxyAV wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:I just can't agree. I've watched Grealish for years now and he hasn't had the energy and fight kicked out of him  as he has never had it. Grealish is good on the ball, but the aspects mentioned above isn't his forte at all. If Grealish had that he would be with a premier league side now.

As an example O'Hare was kicked to shit a couple of times last night. He got up and shok it off. Grealish would have rolled on the grass for ages.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I see a completely different Grealish to you and have been waiting for him to be played in his correct position and now that's finally happened... he's out for a few months.

I do reckon though that if O'Hare's given a run it could well be very hard for Grealish to get back into the team! On the other hand, I also wonder where Hogan and Kodjia fit in together. Hogan's going to have to start banging in goals. It's a shame he and Kodjia don't seem to be able to play together, it's been a while since we've had two top class strikers available and last time we did, Bent was quickly sidelined in favour of Benteke and a counter-attack system, which also did for Weimann.

Have Hogan and kodj really played together that much to say they cant play together?? maybe I'm wrong but I don't think they have

They played together a few times last season and while Hogan gave it a good shot, Kodja wanted to do it all on his own. There's a good chance Bruce will play Hogan behind Kodjia and while it might work, it might also be better to have Grealish, O'Hare or even Onomah sitting behind him. As Hogan's a Bruce signing and a proven goalscorer you'd have to assume Bruce will be concentrating on finding how to make the two strikers work together, especially now Grealish is out for half the season, O'Hare is untried and Onomah is probably destined to play alongside Whelan.

Watching Bruce bring on Samba against Hull just reminded me of Lambert vs Bradford where we ended up with four (five?) strikers up front and the ball lumped forward every time a defender or the goalie touched it. It's not the answer and nor is playing someone who knows how to score goals out of position instead of a correct player for that position who may well help us score more goals overall. Or to put it another way, I hate it when someone is played out of position.

I think putting samba up front in some games for the last 10 or whatever will prove to be a masterstroke come the end of the season, I would bet that he will either score or create some important goals this season, after having played 70, 80 minutes or wehatever what defender on earth would like to have to deal with the beast that is Samba. you will see him thrown up front again this season and he will assist in getting late winners or equalisers.

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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by FoxyAV on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:15 am

jimbop wrote:
FoxyAV wrote:
jimbop wrote:
FoxyAV wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:I just can't agree. I've watched Grealish for years now and he hasn't had the energy and fight kicked out of him  as he has never had it. Grealish is good on the ball, but the aspects mentioned above isn't his forte at all. If Grealish had that he would be with a premier league side now.

As an example O'Hare was kicked to shit a couple of times last night. He got up and shok it off. Grealish would have rolled on the grass for ages.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I see a completely different Grealish to you and have been waiting for him to be played in his correct position and now that's finally happened... he's out for a few months.

I do reckon though that if O'Hare's given a run it could well be very hard for Grealish to get back into the team! On the other hand, I also wonder where Hogan and Kodjia fit in together. Hogan's going to have to start banging in goals. It's a shame he and Kodjia don't seem to be able to play together, it's been a while since we've had two top class strikers available and last time we did, Bent was quickly sidelined in favour of Benteke and a counter-attack system, which also did for Weimann.

Have Hogan and kodj really played together that much to say they cant play together?? maybe I'm wrong but I don't think they have

They played together a few times last season and while Hogan gave it a good shot, Kodja wanted to do it all on his own. There's a good chance Bruce will play Hogan behind Kodjia and while it might work, it might also be better to have Grealish, O'Hare or even Onomah sitting behind him. As Hogan's a Bruce signing and a proven goalscorer you'd have to assume Bruce will be concentrating on finding how to make the two strikers work together, especially now Grealish is out for half the season, O'Hare is untried and Onomah is probably destined to play alongside Whelan.

Watching Bruce bring on Samba against Hull just reminded me of Lambert vs Bradford where we ended up with four (five?) strikers up front and the ball lumped forward every time a defender or the goalie touched it. It's not the answer and nor is playing someone who knows how to score goals out of position instead of a correct player for that position who may well help us score more goals overall. Or to put it another way, I hate it when someone is played out of position.

I think putting samba up front in some games for the last 10 or whatever will prove to be a masterstroke come the end of the season, I would bet that he will either score or create some important goals this season, after having played 70, 80 minutes or wehatever what defender on earth would like to have to deal with the beast that is Samba.  you will see him thrown up front again this season and he will assist in getting late winners or equalisers.

I'd rather see the likes of Audrey and at least one fresh winger on to run at defences and give them hell or create corners so Terry and Chester can have a few pops at goal.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by AstonThriller on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:36 am

achilles wrote:Thanks for the team appraisal @AstonThriller.

No problem pal .

Anyway, I see the debate going on about Grealish vs O'Hare. Well to me they are two different players completely. Grealish has a swagger about him where he can guide past a player almost in slow motion. But for me he tends to slow down our play at times because more often than not he stops the ball and then tries to take it past his man. I also don't think he takes up the best positions on the pitch. Too often he'd be outside the box instead of busting a gut to get in there to score. That's why most of his goals have come from long range efforts. O'Hare, on the other hand, has the same type of energy Tevez had imo. He's just at the opposition and always involved in the game in some sort of way. He takes up very intelligent positions also and has vision is better than Grealish's imo. He's also got more pace and I believe once he gets going he will score quite a few goals. I mean just yesterday he helped set up the first goal, set Hogan in with that brilliant flick, had a shot outside the box that just went over and also had that headed chance. That's four goalscoring opportunities that he was involved in. So all in all I probably have more hope for O'Hare than Jack tbh although Jack is capable of magical moments and if he improves his game then he can be a star without question.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by achilles on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:03 pm

One of the things that O'Hare has at the moment is youthful enthusiasm which is not to be under estimated as it is infectious and lifts the whole team especially Hogan as he knows that he will get service and support.
This also applies to Onomah to a lesser degree as he is already established but it is brilliant to see!
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by jimbop on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:04 pm

there were many moans and groans about us brining Onamah in, not too many now

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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:41 pm

jimbop wrote:there were many moans and groans about us brining Onamah in, not too many now

He was rubbish his first match. Great yesterday. It was Colchester. Lets not get ridiculous.

If he performs well in the league, great.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:52 pm

You could apply the above logic to O'Hare as well. Fact of the matter is that Onomah has played Premier league and Champions league football, and is very much under consideration for Tottenham's plans for the future, we're lucky that we managed to get him on loan, Premier league teams wanted him, and Pochettino doesn't like sending out players he likes as he doesn't want them working with other teams coaches. He's going to be one of our best players this season. There's a part of me hoping that if we can get promoted we'll be able to do a deal with Spurs to buy him outright, but he'd cost big money.

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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:53 pm

I do apply the same logic to O'hare, so I'm not sure where your point is here.
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Re: Colchester United vs Aston Villa match thread

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:09 pm

Well you're basically telling someone not to get carried away with Onomah's performance yesterday because it was only against Colchester, yet you're doing exactly the same but with O'Hare.

As things stands Onomah has performed to an higher standard than O'Hare at a much higher level, and that's not taking anything away from O'Hare, as he's obviously a very promising young talent, but it's just the way it is.

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