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A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by FoxyAV on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:41 am

Joppe84 wrote:
FoxyAV wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Yeah, but we won't see Corey cause we've apparantly signed a spurs youngster on loan. Whom incidentally missplaced passes left right and centre, missed a 100% chance I would have nailed and what not. Todays match just underlined exactly why it was the wrong move to sign this youngster. He's not good enough yet, which is obviously why he's sent out on loan. We should have rotated O'Hare, Blackett or any other of our own products instead. They would have been far more used to our style of play and players as well.

Blackett-Taylor plays on the right wing. This kid on loan was thrown straight in at the deep end with players he hasn't trained with, he needs a chance.

I agree, it was bad management as he shouldn't have been in todays squad. Problem is that it was a wrong signing to make in the first place.

I really do believe if we have a player out injured and their space needs to be filled we should use someone from the squad who plays that position and if not, bring in a U23 player, in this case Adomah is first choice and Blackett-Taylor as a reserve from the reserves. Presumably the U23s and reserves play the same formation as the first team players, and train with them from time to time too? Elmo looked tired and unable to run. I only watched it on the TV so couldn't see him off the ball but Hutton seemed to be doing most of the work in both defence and attack and Elmo meandered into an approximate place at a gentle canter while avoiding confrontation of any kind when what we really need is players pressing the opposition, helping out their teammates and getting stuck in. Sure, Elmo managed some crosses but nothing I wouldn't expect from a competent player.

I thought Hogan looked really good BTW and wish the rejuvinated Gabby had started up front with him. They could have caused Hull some serious problems, bearing in mind Hull's defensive frailties. But no, Bruce plays a single striker. How does that work?

Going back to Elmo and Hutton, where was the former for their goal and should he have been helping out? It was very much like our goal, wasn't it? Preoccupied defenders, man free at back post.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:55 am

I'm gonna try and forget this match now, but I just wanna say that move by Hogan (I think) when Gabby scored was ace. It's not easy to be that aware. Secondly Gabby was pretty good wasn't he? You could see it during preseason as well. Looks sharp. Shame we couldn't start O'Hare as well, he deserved it.

Had to laugh at his 1 vs 1 with the goalie though. Classic Gabby. Give him too much time to think about his finish he'll turn into Darius Vassell.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by achilles on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:03 am

Actually if you watch the defensive work that Gabby did when he was on the left wing and compare it to the non existance work defensively that Elmo did!

In fact the team selection was nearly right, Green should have started on the left and Gabby should have played up front with Hogan, with Bacuna resting at home. I would have liked to see how Hull would have coped with that formation at the start of the match when evrybody was fresh and enthusiastic?
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:14 am

Bacuna has to be sold or released or whatever. There's no way we can get promoted with shite like that still in the squad. What a dogshit footballer.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:26 am

I can't understand people saying that £1.5m isn't enough for Bacuna, and that we shouldn't be giving him away. We only paid about that for Hourihane, and not much more for Lansbury and Whelan; even in today's market Bacuna really isn't worth all that much, but seems Bruce likes him, so not even sure if he's for sale at all.

On Elmohamady I think it will be difficult to get him out the team as he's one of Bruce's favourites, and to be fair he's looked better than I expected, but I can't help looking at Adomah's assist stats and think he'd be a more productive selection (albeit I know stats can be misleading). One thing that does annoy me with Elmohamady is the way the keeper hit's it long for him to flick on everytime, Bruce did exactly the same at both Hull and Sunderland, and it's so predictable.

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Saunders82 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:34 pm

Joppe84 wrote:I'm gonna try and forget this match now, but I just wanna say that move by Hogan (I think) when Gabby scored was ace. It's not easy to be that aware. Secondly Gabby was pretty good wasn't he? You could see it during preseason as well. Looks sharp. Shame we couldn't start O'Hare as well, he deserved it.

Had to laugh at his 1 vs 1 with the goalie though. Classic Gabby. Give him too much time to think about his finish he'll turn into Darius Vassell.

Too True BUT you have to give the goalie some credit he made himself large and got lucky, the ball was going through his legs but caught his thigh and rattle up and down taking the pace off so he could grab it.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by VillaBill on Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:31 pm

Gabby should of squared it, Hogan had a tap in.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Villa Ranger on Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:10 am

achilles wrote:
FoxyAV wrote: I just can't fault Hutton for the goal. Sure he saw he was marking two players but he chose the biggest threat closest to the goal.


with the goal conceeded he was marking two men, damned if you do, damned if you don't springs to mind.  

Sorry boys but, with respect, you're talking rubbish. You've got to be kidding me?

A quality defender would move across the back line and take up a position between the two attackers.

That way he can step forward if the cross reaches the first man, and drop back if the cross is aimed at the far post attacker.

To look behind him, and decide to shuffle towards goal, leaving both players behind him, is criminal defending.

It's the reason no one wants to buy him and one of the reasons we continue to concede stupid goals.

We should have relegated him to covering full back two seasons ago but, as usual, some Villa fans are fooled by his lung-bursting, fruitless forays into attacking positions with absolutely zero end-product.

Since when did: 'running about loads' become an attribute to be admired by Villa fans?

That sounds like a quality that's in high regard in Small Heath.

Have we really sunk that low?
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by DelboyVilla on Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:12 am

VR we have sunk so low as to hero worship a player who puts in a bit of effort no matter how poor a player he can be at times. This is because recently due to the awful attitude of our previous owner we have seen far too many players come in and just take the money and put in zero effort and generally disrespect the club!

Bruce didn't think about tactics formations or what the team actually needed? All he did was buy players he thought could handle the pressure of playing for Villa! I mean why would a manager with one of the best defenses in the league go out and buy more defensive players? To me it spells of bullshit from Bruce used as an excuse for last years poor finish?

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by achilles on Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:19 am

Villa Ranger wrote:
achilles wrote:
FoxyAV wrote: I just can't fault Hutton for the goal. Sure he saw he was marking two players but he chose the biggest threat closest to the goal.


with the goal conceeded he was marking two men, damned if you do, damned if you don't springs to mind.  

We should have relegated him to covering full back two seasons ago but, as usual, some Villa fans are fooled by his lung-bursting, fruitless forays into attacking positions with absolutely zero end-product.

I presume you missed him setting up our goal then?

... and I could ask where was Elmo when we were defending for their goal, certainly not helping Hutton out which he didn't do for the entire game!

By the way I was actually at the game so that did help to get a true perspective.


Last edited by achilles on Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : i was there!)
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by FoxyAV on Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:47 am

From what I saw Hutton was doing most of the work the whole match, I thought he was excellent. But I accept what I was watching on TV might not be the same as watching him live. Especially as most of their attacks seemed to come down that flank and Elmo was giving no support whatsoever.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:41 am

Problem with Hutton is that he very often does what he did this match. He is fairly decent, but he always has one big fuck up in him. He wasn't good enough last season, and isn't good enough this season.

I'd like to see some statistics on goals we concede with him in and out of the side.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by FoxyAV on Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:59 am

Here you go, stats from the Hull match:

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24/Show/England-Aston-Villa

Which put Chester top with Elmo second and Hutton third, which proves absolutely nothing!
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by FoxyAV on Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:10 pm

Ok, just watched the highlights up to the Hull goal. Hogan looks even better, his positioning and play look really good.

For their goal I'd say both Elmo and Bacuna are well and truly to blame. Elmo can see what's going on but hangs around up towards the box. It's from the seventh minute here:

https://www.avfc.co.uk/AVTV/2017/08/06/Aston%20Villa%2011%20Hull%20City%20Extended%20highlights

Even Gabby is marking someone (their RB?) and comes into the box to help. Both Whelan and Bacuna are doing nothing on the edge of the box but I'm sure Bacuna looks across, sees Hutton has two to mark and does nothing. Just stands there.

Hutton makes the clearance in the first place and then has two to mark. I don't see it being his fault any more than it is Chester's for being dragged across.

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by achilles on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:46 pm

I thought the miss by Green was bad when I watched it live on Saturday but watching it again on the highlights I just realise that it is the worse miss I have ever seen, it is appalling!
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by FoxyAV on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:53 pm

achilles wrote:I thought the miss by Green was bad when I watched it live on Saturday but watching it again on the highlights I just realise that it is the worse miss I have ever seen, it is appalling!

Yeah, one of the reasons I turned off after Hull's goal! Just to put it into context:

http://www.90min.com/posts/3096542-10-of-the-worst-open-goal-misses-in-premier-league-history
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by achilles on Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:12 pm

FoxyAV wrote:
achilles wrote:I thought the miss by Green was bad when I watched it live on Saturday but watching it again on the highlights I just realise that it is the worse miss I have ever seen, it is appalling!

Yeah, one of the reasons I turned off after Hull's goal! Just to put it into context:

http://www.90min.com/posts/3096542-10-of-the-worst-open-goal-misses-in-premier-league-history

Thanks @FoxyAV at least it isn't the worse, those top three take some beating, especially Ronnie Rosenthals as I was actually at that game and I remember watching in utter disbelief at the miss!
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Villa Ranger on Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:35 pm

achilles wrote:
Villa Ranger wrote:
achilles wrote:
FoxyAV wrote: I just can't fault Hutton for the goal. Sure he saw he was marking two players but he chose the biggest threat closest to the goal.


with the goal conceeded he was marking two men, damned if you do, damned if you don't springs to mind.  

We should have relegated him to covering full back two seasons ago but, as usual, some Villa fans are fooled by his lung-bursting, fruitless forays into attacking positions with absolutely zero end-product.

I presume you missed him setting up our goal then?

... and I could ask where was Elmo when we were defending for their goal, certainly not helping Hutton out which he didn't do for the entire game!

By the way I was actually at the game so that did help to get a true perspective.

No I didn't miss the fact that he crossed the ball for our goal, but it was hardly a pinpoint cross was it? He just hits it low into the box and the chance is made possible by a clever dummy by Hogan. I did say in my original post that Hutton 'played well overall', but lets not get carried away.

'Zero end product' is a figure of speech here, but to put it in context he got one assist in 34 appearances last season.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Villa Ranger on Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:48 pm

FoxyAV wrote:For their goal I'd say both Elmo and Bacuna are well and truly to blame. Elmo can see what's going on but hangs around up towards the box. It's from the seventh minute here:

Both Whelan and Bacuna are doing nothing on the edge of the box but I'm sure Bacuna looks across, sees Hutton has two to mark and does nothing. Just stands there.


I'm simply questioning Hutton's decision-making in the moment. You are correct that other players have contributed to them having a man over, not least Bacuna, who just walks about outside the penalty area and does nothing to assist.

I'm also alarmed that our whole defence gets sucked towards the ball in the first phase of the attack, before Hutton toes it back out.

As for Elmo, at least he takes up an advanced position in the hope of starting a counter attack. Bacuna is in no man's land and doing nothing.

As I said: 'get rid'.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Villa Ranger on Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:51 pm

achilles wrote:

Thanks @FoxyAV at least it isn't the worse, those top three take some beating, especially Ronnie Rosenthals as I was actually at that game and I remember watching in utter disbelief at the miss!

I was actually at that game too. It certainly helped to give me a true perspective.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by FoxyAV on Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:55 pm

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Villa Ranger on Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:35 pm


Very interesting.

That Positions & Passing Network is a bit of a headfuck at first but clearly shows that Bacuna's discipline, in terms of field position, was a problem and left us exposed across the middle.
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