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A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:11 pm

7There's no excuse for having Onhua and Bacuna in today's line-up/squad. I'd like to add Hutton to that, but he played really well today so it's hard to single him out.

This is just weak management.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Villa Ranger on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:47 pm

Seems to be some divided opinion on Hutton.

I've only seen the first half, plus the last 10 minutes, but from what I saw he looked decent, however I think he's at fault for their goal. In fact our whole defence needed to shift across as Taylor is marking no one at left back but Hutton has two attackers to mark at the far post.

It's still down to Hutton though, as he looks over his shoulder before well before the cross comes in. He sees clearly that they've got a man over at the back post, but doesn't give his teammates a shout and doesn't shift across to pick Bowen up.

He seems to just gamble that the cross won't be good enough to reach Bowen...but of course it is, and Hutton doesn't have time to spin round and close him down.

At the very least, he should have stepped across and positioned himself between them.

He seems to make at least one these errors per game and on this occasion we were punished.

Overall, I can't believe we weren't out of sight by half-time and that we let them back into the game.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by smetro on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:47 pm

Gutted - sorry can see very few positives from that. It just confirms my fears that last seasons goalscoring issues haven't been addressed - and I wasn't overly impressed with any of the new boys

Terry - no real problems with what he did today. But it wasn't domineering defensive masterclass that I hoped for

Whelan - Adequate - but not as good as jedinak

Elmo - dissapeared for huge chunks of the game

Ironically the one positive was sam johnstone who looked pretty confident throughout

please to hear Bruce say that he recognises we have a problem in front of goal and that he is still active in the transfer market - but personally this was obvious last may - and here we are still farting about in August.

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:03 pm

I think we were a tad unlucky in front of goal today, but I don't think that's our big concern. Don't get me wrong, it could obviously be better and it's a problem for us, but relatively speaking.. the monumental big fucking worry is the fact that the club still is one big choke artist. We play 45 minute football and that simply doesn't work. We could sign Messi and we would still not get three points, cause it isn't about finishing chances it's about not shitting your pants and invite teams back into the match.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by smetro on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:08 pm

Joppe84 wrote:I think we were a tad unlucky in front of goal today, but I don't think that's our big concern. Don't get me wrong, it could obviously be better and it's a problem for us, but relatively speaking.. the monumental big fucking worry is the fact that the club still is one big choke artist. We play 45 minute football and that simply doesn't work. We could sign Messi and we would still not get three points, cause it isn't about finishing chances it's about not shitting your pants and invite teams back into the match.


but we wouldn't be shitting our pants if we had put a few away in the first half and gone in 3-0. Most worryingly hull were diabolical in that first half.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:11 pm

I agree, but I think professional footballers should be able to win 1-0. It's pretty obvious there is a mental issue at the club. Whether we just need some wins going to get confidence I don't know, but I can see any sort of winning run coming to end with ruined confidence and more of the same. They are so fragile it's unreal.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:14 pm

On Hutton he did a lot of good things, but also gave away the ball a lot, all in all I don't think it was that good of a performance, he wasn't the only one though, Bacuna, Taylor and at times Whelan were also sloppy in possesion.

To be honest I just think, it's a case of waiting for the club to realise that Bruce isn't the right man for the job, the longer it takes for them to realise, the harder it will be for us to get promoted.

Hopefully we go and beat Colchester and Cardiff, and the above looks rather premature and silly, but I suspect it won't be long before the pressure is on Bruce in a big way.

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by achilles on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:34 pm

Exactly the same, just another season!

Nothing changes, except personnel!

Say it again but we won't score enough goals... fact!
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Villa Ranger on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:48 pm

Now I've watched it all:

Johnstone: Solid performance. Great piece of business by the Club to get him back for another season.
Hutton: Good overall but culpable for their goal
Chester: Couldn't fault his performance
Terry: Same with JT. His calm passing out of defence stands out. Never looked panicked or hurried.
Taylor: Another solid performance but I wish he would try and beat the last man.
Elmohamady: Better in the first half than the second. Looks promising and can cross a ball. Certainly didn't hide, whether we were in possession or not.
Whelan: I like the look of Whelan. Unlucky to get booked in the first half. Puts his foot in and he's neat and tidy with the ball (mostly). Good signing.
Bacuna: My problem with Bacuna is his work rate when we don't have the ball. He just walks about waiting for a teammate to win it back - then suddenly he's interested. Can't have passengers in the Championship. Get rid.
Agbonlahor: Class finish for the goal. Made it look easy but, as young Andre proved, it ain't. Works hard when the opposition are in possession too. I get why Villa fans are down on him. He's never really grown up but he's ours for the duration it seems, and boy does he score some important goals. There was a time when his stock was high and he could chased the money, like many before him. He didn't, and some might say that's because he's lazy, but we need to start treasuring Gabby. He's our Steven Gerrard. He hasn't scaled the same heights, but he's stayed loyal to his boyhood club and that should be applauded.
Lansbury Played well I thought. Was involved in most of our attacks. Rarely wasted possession. His booking was an absolute joke. Not sure how much that affected his game but if a player makes an honest attempt to block a clearance, it should not be a booking just because the defender gets hurt. From the attackers POV: you make a brave attempt to block a clearance -  you get kicked - you get a yellow card. Disgraceful. Today's Ref was a complete tool.
Hogan: Don't think he could have done much more to score today. One thing's for sure: if he finds himself in Andre Green's position late on - he would have scored and we would have won. Almost scored a brilliant solo goal 1st half.
Green I honestly think we'd have lost the game without his introduction. They were in the ascendancy at the time, and he gave their defence something to occupy them. Was unlucky with his miss (he's clearly not a finisher!) but he's a handful and give's us a threat going forward. Should never be starting Bacuna ahead of Green. Hopefully Bruce now knows this too.
Samba : As has already been said, what a beast! I was confused about his introduction. Thought Bruce was accepting a draw. Then saw him playing Centre Forward! He caused havoc though. Might have set up the winner if anyone had read his late knock-down on the edge of the box
Onomah Wtf? Didn't even know we'd signed him! Thought he did ok. Looks useful, and I don't know why he's had a bit of criticism on this thread. Liked his decision-making to try and play in Lansbury. Was snuffed out by good defending. Can't fault him for his miss (wouldn't have counted anyway). He sees it late and all he can do is stick out a leg.

All in all, I'm frustrated that we didn't turn first half dominance into a win, but I saw plenty of positives in the performance. I think Bruce needs to go back into the transfer/loan market and get a dominant attacking midfield playmaker who can unlock all the striking talent we have. Someone who serves up chances on a plate, instead of half chances.

Otherwise we'll be left with JK, who serves up chances to himself and finishes them off. And players like that attract a lot of interest from other clubs.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by FoxyAV on Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:27 pm

I thought Elmo was poor. He had no urgency about him, didn't attempt to defend, was ok at knocking a few balls in but Hutton was doing all the legwork for him. If you look at Taylor and compare him to Hutton, Taylor just wasn't getting forward at all but Hutton was, and defending too. Green should have started on the left wing, Gabby should have been up front with Hogan and Bacuna should have been in Elmo's position if anywhere (and I'd rather he wasn't on the pitch). I just can't fault Hutton for the goal. Sure he saw he was marking two players but he chose the biggest threat closest to the goal.

I wonder how long before we see Samba, Terry and Chester together in defence?

I thought Hutton for MOTM, and Bruce as the most likely to fuck it up for us. I thought Chester, Terry, Johnstone and Lansbury all played well. I still don't understand though why Hourihane wasn't on the pitch in more of a 4-3-3, with Green, Hogan and Gabby in attack and Lansbury, Whelan and Hourihane in the middle.

Bruce just comes across as someone who sets out a game plan and then leaves everyone to get on with it while he looks annoyed so when we don't win he can blame the players.

I thought we only looked good in the first half because Hull looked so bad. We really need Grealish, Kodjia and Adomah back ASAP.

Incidentally I really want to see Corey Blackett-Taylor on the wing. He's 19 now, older than Grealish when he first played. But he's never going to get in ahead of Elmo. Shame.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:44 pm

Yeah, but we won't see Corey cause we've apparantly signed a spurs youngster on loan. Whom incidentally missplaced passes left right and centre, missed a 100% chance I would have nailed and what not. Todays match just underlined exactly why it was the wrong move to sign this youngster. He's not good enough yet, which is obviously why he's sent out on loan. We should have rotated O'Hare, Blackett or any other of our own products instead. They would have been far more used to our style of play and players as well.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by AstonThriller on Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:34 am

Let's be honest. Last season we had the fourth best defence in the division. And had three spells where we were very hard to beat. Hell, towards the end of last season we kept EIGHT clean sheets in the last fourteen games. But on the flip side, we only scored a whopping forty-seven goals in forty-six games. Which ended being the fourth worst in the division. So bad that even relegated sides scored more than us. So what does old potato head go and do? Yep, he spends the entire summer kissing Terry's backside on the golf course and also contrived to bring in other defensive players like Whelan, Samba and Elmo.

So is it any surprise that the same old story unfolded today?

1. Go one up
2. Miss more chances
3. Sit back and invite pressure
4. Then either hang on for a narrow win or concede a goal

That's the Bruce way ladies and gents, and I don't expect anything to change tbh. I mean the fact that Bacuna has become his lovechild is just sickening to me. Bruce was blowing out his cheeks in a nervous way as he walked out before the game, he's a nervous man for sure. If he knows what's good for him he'll get an attacking midfielder and a winger ASAP. Otherwise, we WILL be looking for a new manager shortly, I have no doubts whatsoever.


Last edited by AstonThriller on Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:37 am

I think we'll get it right this season, but out of interest. If people could pick a realistic manager for us, what would the preferred pick be?
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:05 am

If Bruce were to leave I think one of three things would happen, we'd either go for another traditional British manager like Moyes, Allardyce or Pearson, or go for a young up and coming manager like Dean Smith, another possibility is John Terry, but I think they'd insist on bringing in someone with experience to work alongside him, maybe the return of Steve Clark, if he's not too bitter about not getting the job the last time.

An outside shout could be the Fulham manager who's apparently unhappy.


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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by FoxyAV on Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:08 am

Joppe84 wrote:Yeah, but we won't see Corey cause we've apparantly signed a spurs youngster on loan. Whom incidentally missplaced passes left right and centre, missed a 100% chance I would have nailed and what not. Todays match just underlined exactly why it was the wrong move to sign this youngster. He's not good enough yet, which is obviously why he's sent out on loan. We should have rotated O'Hare, Blackett or any other of our own products instead. They would have been far more used to our style of play and players as well.

Blackett-Taylor plays on the right wing. This kid on loan was thrown straight in at the deep end with players he hasn't trained with, he needs a chance.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by VillaBill on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:54 am

What exactly did Bruce tell the players at HT ?
What exactly does Bruce see in Bacuna?
How long did he have to study for his coaching badges if his plan B is to stick a 33yr old centre half up front & lump it ?
The new season air of hope soon evaporated after 45mins, already the pressure is on with two tough away games coming up .

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by AstonThriller on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:05 am

deadbuzzardalive wrote:If Bruce were to leave I think one of three things would happen, we'd either go for another traditional British manager like Moyes, Allardyce or Pearson, or go for a young up and coming manager like Dean Smith, another possibility is John Terry, but I think they'd insist on bringing in someone with experience to work alongside him, maybe the return of Steve Clark, if he's not too bitter about not getting the job the last time.

An outside shout could be the Fulham manager who's apparently unhappy.


I think Stam and Jokanovic are easily attainable. Reading's new owners have been very tight with their money this summer and I doubt Stam is best pleased. And Jokanovic is VERY angry with what's going on at Fulham right now. The guy is not even allowed to sign his own players!!!..definitely think we could get both tbh. But if we went down the English route again I think they'd look at Pardew. Another name on the market is Christoph Galtier, who's record at Saint Ettienne was brilliant.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by villajk on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:48 am

Gary Rowett

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by achilles on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:52 am

FoxyAV wrote:I thought Elmo was poor. He had no urgency about him, didn't attempt to defend, was ok at knocking a few balls in but Hutton was doing all the legwork for him. If you look at Taylor and compare him to Hutton, Taylor just wasn't getting forward at all but Hutton was, and defending too. Green should have started on the left wing, Gabby should have been up front with Hogan and Bacuna should have been in Elmo's position if anywhere (and I'd rather he wasn't on the pitch). I just can't fault Hutton for the goal. Sure he saw he was marking two players but he chose the biggest threat closest to the goal.

I wonder how long before we see Samba, Terry and Chester together in defence?

I thought Hutton for MOTM, and Bruce as the most likely to fuck it up for us. I thought Chester, Terry, Johnstone and Lansbury all played well. I still don't understand though why Hourihane wasn't on the pitch in more of a 4-3-3, with Green, Hogan and Gabby in attack and Lansbury, Whelan and Hourihane in the middle.

Bruce just comes across as someone who sets out a game plan and then leaves everyone to get on with it while he looks annoyed so when we don't win he can blame the players.

I thought we only looked good in the first half because Hull looked so bad. We really need Grealish, Kodjia and Adomah back ASAP.

I agree with most of this, Hutton was outstanding, he was continually driving forward (the only player who showed any positivity) with the goal conceeded he was marking two men, damned if you do, damned if you don't springs to mind. In comparision Taylor is never a wing back as he gets a nose bleed when he gets over the half way line, defensively pretty sound but awful with the ball going forward. Elmo does nothing defensively but is good going forward is he any better than Adomah, the jury is still out!
Most of the first half was good with Lansbury getting into good positions but his finishing was very weak and I think he faded away pretty badly to be honest, expected much, much more from him and he hasn't delivered. Gabby was good but I stiil feel that he should have tried to square the first chance he had across the box as he was never going to score from that acute angle. Hogan worked his socks off but is that good enough, needs a goal or two for definite. Bacuna was utter rubbish, shouldn't be anywhere need the team. Whelan was okay but not as good as last week, needs time to adjust. JT was class personified, always got time and made everything look so easy. Chester was as always solid. Green definitely made the difference when coming on the pitch as Hull were definitely in the ascendency but the header he missed was utterly dreadful, scoring goals is not a strong point which is a shame as he certainly has talent.

Calmed down from yesterday so I can see a few positives but realistically I can only see midtable for us at this moment in time but we still have 3 weeks of the transfer window left so everything could change for the best. Scarf Waving
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Thinman on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:04 am

Well the result was pretty much as I expected if not the score.

Some good analysis by fellow posters so I won't dwell except to say that criticism of Hogan by some on other sites is out of order IMHO. You can see that he's a quality player, a natural striker and if SB can ever work out how to use him, he'll be a Holte send hero one day.

My overall concern though is the lack of tempo and energy in the second half. The players just looked drained and tired out. Not sure that our pre season prep has been effective.

I'm going to judge once the squad has got itself up to full match fitness and key injured players (I.e. Kodjia and Jedi) are back playing.

I just hope we can keep pace with the top pack (whoever they are) in the meantime.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:06 am

FoxyAV wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Yeah, but we won't see Corey cause we've apparantly signed a spurs youngster on loan. Whom incidentally missplaced passes left right and centre, missed a 100% chance I would have nailed and what not. Todays match just underlined exactly why it was the wrong move to sign this youngster. He's not good enough yet, which is obviously why he's sent out on loan. We should have rotated O'Hare, Blackett or any other of our own products instead. They would have been far more used to our style of play and players as well.

Blackett-Taylor plays on the right wing. This kid on loan was thrown straight in at the deep end with players he hasn't trained with, he needs a chance.

I agree, it was bad management as he shouldn't have been in todays squad. Problem is that it was a wrong signing to make in the first place.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by Joppe84 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:08 am

[quote="achilles"]
FoxyAV wrote:
Calmed down from yesterday so I can see a few positives but realistically I can only see midtable for us at this moment in time but we still have 3 weeks of the transfer window left so everything could change for the best. Scarf Waving

I just can't see any signings make much difference. We have a ton of good players for this division and more than good enough youngsters to fill gaps. The obvious problem is 45 minutes of football, and I can't see that changing if we make more signings.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by DelboyVilla on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:20 am

Another disappointing performance over 90 minutes and rather expected as most teams last years worked us out after 45 minutes and changed tactically which completely bamboozaled Bruce?

As I have said too many times (I am boring myself even) we will draw our way into November and get the shits. Get rid of Bruce and give the next manager no time to be able to change the style of play round and finish a disppointing mid table and next year will be 'our year' for promotion? Hopefully?

Starting the season with Bruce is a mistake we cannot rectify now!

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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by achilles on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:22 am

Joppe84 wrote:
achilles wrote:
FoxyAV wrote:
Calmed down from yesterday so I can see a few positives but realistically I can only see midtable for us at this moment in time but we still have 3 weeks of the transfer window left so everything could change for the best. Scarf Waving

I just can't see any signings make much difference. We have a ton of good players for this division and more than good enough youngsters to fill gaps. The obvious problem is 45 minutes of football, and I can't see that changing if we make more signings.

Just trying to remain positive as I agree the squad should be more than capable for this division but perhaps a new signing just might be the catalyst to gel the side together and get us moving forward again.
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Re: A shiny new, promotion winning match thread - V Hull

Post by AstonThriller on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:30 am

DelboyVilla wrote:Another disappointing performance over 90 minutes and rather expected as most teams last years worked us out after 45 minutes and changed tactically which completely bamboozaled Bruce?

As I have said too many times (I am boring myself even) we will draw our way into November and get the shits. Get rid of Bruce and give the next manager no time to be able to change the style of play round and finish a disppointing mid table and next year will be 'our year' for promotion? Hopefully?

Starting the season with Bruce is a mistake we cannot rectify now!

Personally, I don't think Bruce will get more than the first six league games to get it right. Wyness was adamant in his last interview with the villa view that "we aren't scared to take action if needed". So I think Bruce gets less time than RDM tbh.
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