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Pre-season friendlies 2017

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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Wookster on Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:43 pm

dire, slow, and what has Richards been up to pre season hes huge
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:05 pm

No playing style or pattern to our play whatsoever; from keeping Bruce, to our transfer targets and now how we're performing in friendlies, this pre-season isn't offering me any encouragement that we can put up a decent challenge for promotion at all.

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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by LVBrit on Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:20 pm

Having watched the last two games i have a theory. We thought that Kodjia didn't work with a partner. Maybe its just a case of him having very little confidence in Mcormack and Hogan if he passes to them, i sure as hell don't have any.They both look piss poor.

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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Villa_Dan on Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:55 pm

Preseason means nothing. Last year we only lost to recently promoted Boro, and scored about 21 goals. Didn't translate to the league at all.
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by The Utterer on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:05 pm

Hmmn, i am watching these preseason games as a barometer as to whether to buy a season ticket or not this season,

After Telford & K'Minster i was starting to lean towards buying one, after todays crap i am definitely now leaning towards keeping my money!

Awful..... Now i know it was pre season but that was dire! I know we have players missing and all that too but it just was soooo last season all over as in Poor opposition from a lower league, away from home and we didn't turn up!! Even with JT playing, which concerns me greatly as i thought they would want to put on a performance for his first game.
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Boldfinger on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:23 pm

pre season games can be used as a guide for absolutely fuck all.
If you are a villa fan and have the money and time to become a season ticket holder then do it.
If you are looking for a reason to not buy one then simply don't buy one.
I have had a season ticket for 15 years but that don't mean I am a better fan than someone who hasn't it just means my circumstances have meant that I have Been lucky or unlucky enough to be able to get one.
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:31 pm

the results of friendlies mean very little, but you'd hope to see some improvements in general gameplay, something to suggest that Bruce knows where we went wrong last season and knows how to fix it.


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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by FoxyAV on Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Chester and Terry looked good together and both made some very good passes/clearances, and Hutton does seem to be making a case for himself at RB. He and Richards aren't CBs and both goals probably come down to that, I suspect neither would have happened with Chester and Terry playing. Bjarnason isn't a winger, Hogan and McCormack seemed starved of crosses but not able to link with each other/everyone else to play themselves onto goal. Lansbury and Veretout look good to start in midfield. We missed someone linking midfield and strikers (cough... Grealish) and there wasn't really anything much else to say. Pretty much everyone looked hungover. Green did ok but made a few silly mistakes that will probably be ironed out after a few games. Er, that's about it.
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by The Utterer on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:30 am

Boldfinger wrote:pre season games can be used as a guide for absolutely fuck all.
If you are a villa fan and have the money and time to become a season ticket holder then do it.
If you are looking for a reason to not buy one then simply don't buy one.
I have had a season ticket for 15 years but that don't mean I am a better fan than someone who hasn't it just means my circumstances have meant that I have Been lucky or unlucky enough to be able to get one.

That's the thing you see Boldfinger, I am struggling for the time although could just about squeeze MOST of the games if i got a ST so i only want to get one and make some sacrifices time wise if i feel i'm going to be entertained and feel it's worth it. I know we will win some & lose some as always but if it's turgid anti-football i really don't want to feel obliged to watch it i guess. I have been a ST holder many a season but had to give it up due to just being stupidly busy and instead have been going when time permits over the last few seasons. So it's not so much affording it financially as affording to take time out from my busy schedule, i guess i would love to do that but not if it's going to be horrid to watch so i'm a bit torn and hence looking for a reason to buy one really, i need to see a spark of promise or something which thus far i'm not although i am aware friendlies are not an ideal indicator for the season ahead.

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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Boldfinger on Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:29 am

i hear what your saying mate 100% but for me the choice is made easier, if I don't get a season ticket I will get dragged shopping with the Mrs every week - no brainier really isn't it.
We may be bad but week after week of "does my bum look big in this?" - fuck that all of a sudden it's like watching Brazil.
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Joppe84 on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:12 am

Ok I've watched it.

1) sell Bjarnason. Cut our losses. He's not gonna make it.
2) we won't see how good we are until we stop rotating so heavily and nail down a first team for unity. They need to play together as we are ment to. This means no Hutton, Richards, McCormack, etc.
3) preseason matches is exactly that. Sunderland lost yesterday. As did Hull. We are not saying they cant be fighting for promotion because of a lost preseason match?
4) It's Sunday and I can soon take out vacation. In your faces!!!
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by The Utterer on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:48 am

Boldfinger wrote:i hear what your saying mate 100% but for me the choice is made easier, if I don't get a season ticket I will get dragged shopping with the Mrs every week - no brainier really isn't it.
We may be bad but week after week of "does my bum look big in this?" - fuck that all of a sudden it's like watching Brazil.

Yes i hear you loud & clear on that! My wife is normally a size 6 - 8 & is currently 6 months pregnant at the mo and so is now convinced she's fat! (Which she isn't at all she just looks like a snake that ate a large animal (see pic) if you catch my drift ....Ok you win Boldfinger...ST here i come Beer
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Boldfinger on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:57 am

Awesome. Please note that I take no responsibility for the lack of actual football you are about to witness over the forthcoming season, kick and rush is something we seem to be working on and it looks like Bruce has got his tactics from a schoolyard.
Good luck with the pregnancy - another villan on the way.
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by AstonThriller on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:43 pm

The performance was terrible from start to finish tbh. The defence was solid enough but by McGrath  we were utterly useless in the final third. I just don't think we have the players available to be playing 532 or even 442. The midfield just don't seem to have it in them to create chances and the forwards are often isolated. Bruce seems determined to play two upfront but it's just not working and In the end it will cost him his job if he doesn't get the memo. Thor, Mccormack and Hogan just didn't look up to it at all tbh. We need to go back to 433 or 4231 and get the lads playing in a system that garnered most of our wins last season. This experimental stuff will only hurt the start of our season imo.


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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Gordonsleftboot on Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:34 pm

I thought Verretout looked the best of a very average bunch yesterday. I was also puzzled by Hogan and McCormack. Hogan has never looked worth a bean to me when I've seen him other than his one goal last season. So I looked up his goal video this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxXwWINeVBU He is clearly a one touch finisher and don't expect too much else - which is what we've seen. Why have him on the pitch when we hardly ever pressure teams in the box? Strange buy this one.

McCormack? look at his videos and he scores free kicks (so why does Hourihohne take them?) and long range efforts. A very different type of striker. What it lacking in each is any sign that they actually play well with other players and develop partnerships. No wonder that Kodjia goes it alone. Not great signs for the season ahead. Seems to me that the one player who may get Hogan in is Verretout with his passing ability, but if he is still for sale....
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:46 pm

To get the best out of the players we have, we need to change our style of play drastically, but Bruce seems to think it's more about the players' mentality rather than actual tactics.

I'm just hoping that none of the other teams get off to flying starts, so we'll still have a chance of catching them.

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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Joppe84 on Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:58 pm

I like Hogan. Intelligent striker, but we need a functioning midfield. McCormack however...
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by AstonThriller on Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:40 pm

deadbuzzardalive wrote:To get the best out of the players we have, we need to change our style of play drastically, but Bruce seems to think it's more about the players' mentality rather than actual tactics.

I'm just hoping that none of the other teams get off to flying starts, so we'll still have a chance of catching them.

I'm already drawing up a list of alternative managers tbh. I just don't see the man lasting long.
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by DelboyVilla on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:00 am

AstonThriller wrote:
deadbuzzardalive wrote:To get the best out of the players we have, we need to change our style of play drastically, but Bruce seems to think it's more about the players' mentality rather than actual tactics.

I'm just hoping that none of the other teams get off to flying starts, so we'll still have a chance of catching them.

I'm already drawing up a list of alternative managers tbh. I just don't see the man lasting long.

I just cannot understand how Bruce gets a team with our apparent quality to play so poorly? Quite a feat really?


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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Dazzle on Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

DelboyVilla wrote:
AstonThriller wrote:
deadbuzzardalive wrote:To get the best out of the players we have, we need to change our style of play drastically, but Bruce seems to think it's more about the players' mentality rather than actual tactics.

I'm just hoping that none of the other teams get off to flying starts, so we'll still have a chance of catching them.

I'm already drawing up a list of alternative managers tbh. I just don't see the man lasting long.

I just cannot understand how Bruce gets a team with our apparent quality to play so poorly? Quite a feat really?


It's all rather concerning, isn't it? I've been concerned since the turn of the year when it's become plain to see that there is no style to us other than the old "roll your sleeves up, sort your attitude" style. I'm just waiting for the next set of excuses as to why things aren't going as they ought to be by now, excuses such as outgoing transfers dragging on and interrupting pre-season etc etc. It's my opinion that we're no closer to knowing remotely what starting 11 might be managements preference, or the formation and style they might be asked to play in. The better looking players from the friendlys so far have been players who want out and will go, Green being the exception. The players we're linked with are uninspiring and most of us are scratching our heads as to the need for said players. I keep hearing about the need for characters and leaders on the field when most successful sides get that from management on the sidelines, how many more other teams captains are we to buy to create this leadership utopia? I hope I'm wrong but I'm not confident that in the next four weeks things will change that much, and we'll go into the season still looking like a pained dog with constipation
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by FoxyAV on Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:35 pm

I think there is a pattern to what we've seen so far. It looked like the first choice midfield played at Telford (Green, Veretout, Lansbury, Adomah), with probably the preferred strike partnership while Kodjia is away of Hogan and McCormack at Kidderminster, along with our reserve midfield, and a combination of defenders at both. Presumably Grealish and Jedi are injured since they don't appear to be up for sale. By the Shrewsbury match, with Adomah injured, Bruce had a look at what he had available for a 4-4-2 and stuck Green on the right wing and put Bjarnason on left wing, where he was tried out last season to no great success. Three important things came out of this match:

1. Green looks superb on either wing, and plays well on his own or with those around him.
2. Bjarnason is not a winger and we have better players for any other position Bruce might like to try him in at any random point of the coming season. He's at best third choice cover in midfield or on the wing, whatever he did for Iceland.
3. Richards's Villa career is over and Hutton is no central defender. Neither is the answer and nor is Elphick, Samba is. It doesn't matter that we lost the last match, we wouldn't have done so with Chester and Terry at the back.

What's most worrying is Joppe and I seem to agree on these

I really like Veretout but I wonder if he's going to start ahead of Hourihane. Bearing in mind Bruce seems to be serving up defensive football concentrating on not losing, we're probably going to be stuck with Jedi starting every match, which means we're unlikely to see Veretout, Lansbury and Hourihane in the middle while we play a 4-4-2. Last season we barely saw Lansbury and Hourihane play together, and when we did (Brighton) once Jedi was injured we actually saw some real promise and a more fluid midfield, not so pegged back to defend, and midfielders in the box and having shots on goal (14 shots in total for that match from everyone, 10 on target).

I'd say so far we have this lot confirmed to start the season and all other places up for grabs:

          Johnstone
       Chester Terry
Green Lansbury Veretout
   Hogan

McCormack over Gabby? Who knows. Green on the right since we have no cover there, and a choice of Grealish, Amavi, Bjornason and Gabby on the left, none of whom fills me with excitement although Gabby at least adds strength and some excellent retribution enforcement (!) and Grealish can score the occasional goal and get in some tasty crosses.

I suspect we'll see this lot start the Watford match, and we'll find out if Veretout is off and Hourihane comes in, or if we're in for more of the same from last season with Jedi next to Lansbury. Hutton or Bree? Taylor or Amavi? There are lots of choices to be made and combinations to try out. I think we can only play three at the back if Samba signs, so we might see that tried at Watford. If not, we can't do it with Richards, Hutton, Elphick or Baker as the first three aren't good enough and Baker has to be kept back in case either Terry or Chester is injured.

What is worrying though is that Kodjia isn't getting a pre-season, and Grealish, Audrey and Jedi need to get started soon if Bruce intends to play them. Unless Hogan, McCormack and Gabby suddenly find form, we're looking at Davis for goals. Maybe we do need to sign Crouch!
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Dazzle on Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:35 pm

FoxyAV wrote:I think there is a pattern to what we've seen so far. It looked like the first choice midfield played at Telford (Green, Veretout, Lansbury, Adomah), with probably the preferred strike partnership while Kodjia is away of Hogan and McCormack at Kidderminster, along with our reserve midfield, and a combination of defenders at both. Presumably Grealish and Jedi are injured since they don't appear to be up for sale. By the Shrewsbury match, with Adomah injured, Bruce had a look at what he had available for a 4-4-2 and stuck Green on the right wing and put Bjarnason on left wing, where he was tried out last season to no great success. Three important things came out of this match:

1. Green looks superb on either wing, and plays well on his own or with those around him.
2. Bjarnason is not a winger and we have better players for any other position Bruce might like to try him in at any random point of the coming season. He's at best third choice cover in midfield or on the wing, whatever he did for Iceland.
3. Richards's Villa career is over and Hutton is no central defender. Neither is the answer and nor is Elphick, Samba is. It doesn't matter that we lost the last match, we wouldn't have done so with Chester and Terry at the back.

What's most worrying is Joppe and I seem to agree on these

I really like Veretout but I wonder if he's going to start ahead of Hourihane. Bearing in mind Bruce seems to be serving up defensive football concentrating on not losing, we're probably going to be stuck with Jedi starting every match, which means we're unlikely to see Veretout, Lansbury and Hourihane in the middle while we play a 4-4-2. Last season we barely saw Lansbury and Hourihane play together, and when we did (Brighton) once Jedi was injured we actually saw some real promise and a more fluid midfield, not so pegged back to defend, and midfielders in the box and having shots on goal (14 shots in total for that match from everyone, 10 on target).

I'd say so far we have this lot confirmed to start the season and all other places up for grabs:

          Johnstone
       Chester Terry
Green Lansbury Veretout
   Hogan

McCormack over Gabby? Who knows. Green on the right since we have no cover there, and a choice of Grealish, Amavi, Bjornason and Gabby on the left, none of whom fills me with excitement although Gabby at least adds strength and some excellent retribution enforcement (!) and Grealish can score the occasional goal and get in some tasty crosses.

I suspect we'll see this lot start the Watford match, and we'll find out if Veretout is off and Hourihane comes in, or if we're in for more of the same from last season with Jedi next to Lansbury. Hutton or Bree? Taylor or Amavi? There are lots of choices to be made and combinations to try out. I think we can only play three at the back if Samba signs, so we might see that tried at Watford. If not, we can't do it with Richards, Hutton, Elphick or Baker as the first three aren't good enough and Baker has to be kept back in case either Terry or Chester is injured.

What is worrying though is that Kodjia isn't getting a pre-season, and Grealish, Audrey and Jedi need to get started soon if Bruce intends to play them. Unless Hogan, McCormack and Gabby suddenly find form, we're looking at Davis for goals. Maybe we do need to sign Crouch!

You seem to be including Veretout, and I think it's clear he ain't going to be around
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by Saunders82 on Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:45 pm

I just have a sneaky feeling Veretout could stop with us, he looks very happy playing & is looking our best player at times
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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:56 pm

At the moment in terms of central midfielders we have Lyden, Gardner, Tshibola, Bacuna, Jedinak, Lansbury, Hourihane, Bjarnasson, Veretout and it looks like Whelan is signing in the next few days.

Not sure if many clubs are going to come in for Bacuna or Gardner, so we might have not much choice but to let Veretout go, which would be a shame.

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Re: Pre-season friendlies 2017

Post by FoxyAV on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:27 am

Do we have to sell Veretout to comply with the financial rules or do we only have to do it to cover the incoming cost of Elmo and Wheelan? Cos surely that's a false economy that's going to come back to bite us on the arse? Sure, we have Hourihane, who I think really will come good if he's allowed to play, but Veretout is exactly the kind of player we've been calling for for years - a young, successful (before he came to Villa) midfielder who can provide assists and score goals. If we're trying to pull ourselves out of the Championship and build the foundations now for a Premier League team, surely he's exactly the kind of player we want?
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