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Summer transfer window 2017/18

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by gaffer85 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:55 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I don't know who the Southampton reserve left-back is, if they're lucky enough to have produced one from their academy good for them. But most teams will have a couple of senior players who can play that position, same with any other position on the pitch.

Just because O'Hare is doing well at the moment doesn't mean to say that we've got a conveyor belt of talented youngsters coming through, meaning we don't need to sign squad players anymore; whilst we've got some talented individuals, our u23 side isn't actually all that great at the moment, hence the club trying to restructure it.

To be honest the only teams with 2 senior pros for most positions would be the top 6 clubs if you don't give the kids a chance we'll never know if there good enough
The reason Cahill left us is because there was to many senior pro's in front of him
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:21 pm

Pretty much every club has more than one senior pro for every position, the alternative would imply that clubs have eleven players that they've brought and the rest of the squad filled with players who've come through the academy, which of course is not true, if you've got four or five players who've come through the youth system in a squad, then you're doing well.

Going by what Wyness has said,I think our goal is eventually to become a club like Ajax or Barcelona, who have conveyor belt of talented youngsters coming through the system, who are ready for the 'Villa way' because they've learnt it from a very young age, but we're a long way from that at the moment, if we ever get there at all.

When Cahill left he was already a senior pro himself, if we had someone as good as him (as he was at the time), I wouldn't advocating us buying another left-back, but as it stands we don't even have a specialist left-back if Taylor gets injured.

All that said Bruce might just decide, to risk it, and use Bree or De Laet as our back up, for that position.




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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:27 pm

Apparently Forestieri as had a 'bust up' at Wednesday and stormed out of training, I think he'd be perfect for us, but unfortunately with FFP, have no chance of signing him.

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by Joppe84 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:43 pm

Are our finances and accounts open source? I'd rather look at numbers than discussing what ifs
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:28 pm

I haven't seen the finances myself and to be honest, even if I did, I wouldn't know what I was looking at. But it does seem surprising to me that we're being handicapped by FFP to the extent that we are; I mean I know we've spent a lot, but it's not as if we haven't also got the parachute payments, and we've brought quite a bit of money in, from selling players.

I'm wondering if maybe there's a bit more to it, than FFP.


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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by gaffer85 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:29 pm

Definitely DeLeat can play there and I agree Borg not the same age as Cahill but we don't want to be stifling the younger lads with to many senior pro's I believe like you most clubs would have senior pro's for the spine of team but everywhere else should be covered by the academy in my opinion
What's the point of an academy otherwise
It was only a few years ago we won the youth version of the champions league they can't all have been that bad
Even if they don't make it with us we should be getting a few quid for these academy players but I think we released most of them
Something wrong there thankfully they are trying to fix this
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by AstonThriller on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:45 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:I haven't seen the finances myself and to be honest, even if I did, I wouldn't know what I was looking at. But it does seem surprising to me that we're being handicapped by FFP to the extent that we are; I mean I know we've spent a lot, but it's not as if we haven't also got the parachute payments, and we've brought quite a bit of money in, from selling players.

I'm wondering if maybe there's a bit more to it, than FFP.

I must admit that I'm also starting to wonder. One could argue that all we spent thus far is the parachute money and nothing else. Or they might be having doubts about Bruce? To only spend 2.5m this summer is shameful tbh. Especially when you consider that we've brought in a decent amount of money this summer.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:54 am

I think they're either, of the opinion that we have a good enough squad as it is, so are holding a bit back until January in case we have a new manager then, and he wants a few signings of his own, or we're holding some money back until next summer, when Wyness has said we've got 'a bigger issue' with FFP, unless we're promoted, in the event of which he's said we can match what Everton have done this summer.

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by Gordonsleftboot on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:29 am

I haven't seen the finances either so this is a guess. But the last accounts under Lerner showed a whacking loss of circa £80m, which looked liked Lerner balancing up all of his years of mismanagement. My guess, and it is a guess, is that it is that, that has caused the problem. No conspiracy theories please!
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by jimbop on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:55 am

@Saunders82 wrote:I think Villa are using the FFP rules as a smokescreen to A, keep the price down on players, B, give us an excuse to ship out players. I have always understood that when a club has just been bought you have a grace period & FFP doesn't apply anyway, time will tell.

exactly what I think

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by Dazzle on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:16 am

@jimbop wrote:
@Saunders82 wrote:I think Villa are using the FFP rules as a smokescreen to A, keep the price down on players, B, give us an excuse to ship out players. I have always understood that when a club has just been bought you have a grace period & FFP doesn't apply anyway, time will tell.

exactly what I think

I'm sorry but FFP is not a fecking smokescreen, its a real thing that comes with consequences if not adhered to. The facts are that Aston Villa lost money under Lerner year after year, and we then went and spent a bunch more in the last 12 months, we're clearly not running in positive figures. When that parachute money disappears we are left almost certainly with not enough income to cover the outgoings, i.e. Big player salaries
I'm not sure why some here seem to think we are immune to what has happened to the likes of Leeds, Blackpool, Derby, anyone, who have been relegated previously and suffered financially when not able to get back up within a season or two. It's real and it's not going away just yet, take off the blinkers and get real.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by FoxyAV on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:19 am

Xia has allowed a big chunk of money to be spent on new players and we end up with the likes of McCormack failing completely, Bruce's purchases like Hogan and to a certain extent Lansbury only now getting into their stride after half a season of it not working out and a big squad of expensive players to sort out. I would imagine we still have a wage bill bigger than many Premier League clubs, we're in a league where bearing in mind the quality of academy players coming through we shouldn't have to buy our way to the title (paying over the odds as we go) and we're a big enough club that we can attract the likes of Terry, Johnstone and Onomah for a season apiece - all good players ready to slot straight into the first team. We should be now at the point where the team is taking shape, we have some good players as backup, we have players for different formations and we only need to fine tune what's there (edit: and get rid of the likes of Richards and Bacuna - reserve players who can be replaced with academy players). Somehow though that's not the case and by not buying a dedicated left winger (and letting Sinclair go) we spent last season with Ayew, Kodjia, Grealish, Amavi and whoever else playing there before Green had a brief run at the very end. It's remarkable that hasn't happened yet. My father-in-law supports West Ham and reckons Snodgrass has been poor for them but arrived having been superb for Hull. It might be a Bruce thing, but if we can get him cheaply enough we may have a solution for that left winger side. And then? I think we're looking good. Hogan and Kodjia as main strikers along with Audrey and Davis as backup, and Gabby too (presumably if we play a 4-4-2). The mostly reserves team we played against Chesterfield looked promising and I bet we see some of those players come through to the first team. I'm hoping O'Hare, Hourihane, Audrey and Davis come good, and Blackett-Taylor (right wing, unfortunately for him!). Steer too. Always liked him, always thought he was better than Guzan and then he had that injury that put him out last season. Funny to think he's the same age as Johnstone, both with a lot of years ahead of them. I wonder if all along we've already had that goalie we've been looking for?

So, after all that rambling, I think Xia knows what he's doing, I think the players look really good, I think we have a team capable of winning the title and now it's up to Bruce to make it all work. That's the bit I'm not comfortable with. We do, however, look like we have a lot of good players not on massive wages, and if we can keep the expensive mistakes (see McCormack) to a minimum while bringing in good players on the cheap and up through the academy, the club should be able to support itself without Xia having to invest. At least not until we're in the PL again. On top of which we have a few expensive players at the end of their contracts - Hutton has the rest of this season to go, Gabby and I think Richards are out next season and so on.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by Joppe84 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:58 am

@gaffer85 wrote:Definitely DeLeat can play there and I agree Borg not the same age as Cahill but we don't want to be stifling the younger lads with to many senior pro's I believe like you most clubs would have senior pro's for the spine of team but everywhere else should be covered by the academy in my opinion
What's the point of an academy otherwise
It was only a few years ago we won the youth version of the champions league they can't all have been that bad
Even if they don't make it with us we should be getting a few quid for these academy players but I think we released most of them
Something wrong there thankfully they are trying to fix this

Yeah. For what it's worth, I don't think a club in the championship on the brink of breaching FFP, can except to have 2 solid senior players in all positions. Youths are there and must be used, if not, why do we have an academy? Even if Taylor gets injured for months, we can use Borg, Hutton, De Laet, any CB and Bjarnason to cover. This is more than enough.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:38 am

Bruce has confirmed that Bacuna is set to join Reading, we turned down their first bid of £1.5m, so hopefully this means they've come back with an improved offer. Also suggested that we're still after another striker, after talking about Cantona and Shearer.

On the left-back situation it would be madness to go into the season, with just Taylor as the specialist there, if he happened to get a bad injury and we were left with having to play makeshift players there, we'd be targeted down that side and exposed, Borg has only played an handful of games for the u23s himself after an injury, so he's got plenty of time. Bruce has said himself that if Amavi leaves he will want to bring in another, so I expect that to happen.

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by Joppe84 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:48 am

It's pretty absurd to go after another striker when we have Gabby, McCormack, Hogan, Kodjia, RHM, O'Hare, Davis.

That strike force is premier league material, nevermind the championship.

Sunderland fans warned me about Bruce signing a ton of players for the sake of it. I hope it isn't what we're witnessing.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by jimbop on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:05 am

@Joppe84 wrote:It's pretty absurd to go after another striker when we have Gabby, McCormack, Hogan, Kodjia, RHM, O'Hare, Davis.

That strike force is premier league material, nevermind the championship.

Sunderland fans warned me about Bruce signing a ton of players for the sake of it. I hope it isn't what we're witnessing.

doesn't every manager do that at sunderland?

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:14 am

The question is are the strikers we already have at the club good enough to get us the goals we need to challenge for automatic promotion? Bruce has been told we need to be aiming to score between 70 and 80 goals this season.

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by jimbop on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:18 am

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:The question is are the strikers we already have at the club good enough to get us the goals we need to challenge for automatic promotion?  Bruce has been told we need to be aiming to score between 70 and 80 goals this season.

I think we have, I think Hogan is gonna be our top scorer, plenty from midfield also and lets not forget that JT will chip in with a few

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:25 pm

He also said that by the end of the transfer window he hopes we're a bit more like a Neil Warnock side, which perhaps implies we're after a few experienced battler types.

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by jimbop on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:00 pm

FFS!! Jonathan Kodjia's Aston Villa comeback will not happen until mid-September - at the earliest.

It was originally hoped Kodjia would be fit enough to kick off the Championship season with Villa last weekend after missing the end of last term with a broken ankle.


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But the quicker-than-expected recovery that looked to be on the cards has suffered a hitch, with the striker still experiencing pain.

Manager Steve Bruce had pencilled Kodjia in for September 9 when Villa play Brentford after the international break, but they are reluctant to put a specific timeframe for his return.

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:30 pm

That's a ready made excuse for Bruce, if things don't go to plan during the first months or so, he's already mentioning Kodjia, Grealish and Jedinak being out in almost every interview he does.

A win needed tomorrow to give us a bit of confidence away from home, and if we could score a few goals that would be handy too, need to start doing the business without Kodjia.

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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by Saunders82 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:33 pm

@Dazzle wrote:
@jimbop wrote:
@Saunders82 wrote:I think Villa are using the FFP rules as a smokescreen to A, keep the price down on players, B, give us an excuse to ship out players. I have always understood that when a club has just been bought you have a grace period & FFP doesn't apply anyway, time will tell.

exactly what I think

I'm sorry but FFP is not a fecking smokescreen, its a real thing that comes with consequences if not adhered to. The facts are that Aston Villa lost money under Lerner year after year, and we then went and spent a bunch more in the last 12 months, we're clearly not running in positive figures. When that parachute money disappears we are left almost certainly with not enough income to cover the outgoings, i.e. Big player salaries
I'm not sure why some here seem to think we are immune to what has happened to the likes of Leeds, Blackpool, Derby, anyone, who have been relegated previously and suffered financially when not able to get back up within a season or two. It's real and it's not going away just yet, take off the blinkers and get real.

I didnt say FFP was was a smokescreen I said Villa are using it as such to gain advantage, have another look at it.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by Gordonsleftboot on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:31 pm

Bacuna has gone to Reading - signed a 4 year contract so clearly they are Champions League bound
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by Boldfinger on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:46 pm

@Gordonsleftboot wrote:Bacuna has gone to Reading - signed a 4 year contract so clearly they are Champions League bound
That's great news. - I'm going out to celebrate. Beers are on me
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Re: Summer transfer window 2017/18

Post by FoxyAV on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:59 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:He also said that by the end of the transfer window he hopes we're a bit more like a Neil Warnock side

I can now see why he said that. Maybe he's already suggested him to Xia as his assistant. (edit - bloody autocorrect, meant 'replacement'!)


Last edited by FoxyAV on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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