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Jack Grealish

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Jack Grealish

Post by Wriggle on Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:29 pm

Lot's of negative comments about Jack which i don't fully understand.

Here's a 21 year old kid and already he's being slated by some?? He's still young and learning and he will make mistakes or drift in and out of games. I think the main problem is he doesn't know his true position in the team and that's mainly down to different managers playing him in different positions. He needs a manager that will man manage/coach him and teach him where is best position is and how he should play.

Too want him away from the club at such a young age is one of the dumbest things i've heard in a long time as we haven't had a youngster with this much talent in a long time.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by DelboyVilla on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:45 am

@Wriggle I agree to a certain extent and I don't want to see him leave us yet. He seems far more level headed this year and a little more mature IMO. OK the sending off against Forest was stupid but all players make stupid mistakes and he won't be the last one to do so.

He has had lots of managers over the past few years during the most important period of his development and most have been very poor at their jobs. I am sure Clemence will give him a lot of stick over Saturday and all we can hope is that he learns from this?

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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:32 am

I must say I thought his yellow card for kicking the ball away was slightly harsh. I agree with Bruce, it wasn't as if he booted it, he just passed it to one of the Forest players, still I guess he should have known just to leave it.

I do think people are slightly harsh on their judgement of him as a player. Maybe he was built up too much, and now people are expecting too much of him. If we were to play more on the frontfoot use the ball better rather than just hoofing it, I suspect, we'd be seeing better performances from him.

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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by VTID85 on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:37 am

I think patience is just wearing very thin. All we hear is how much potential he's got, but how often does that translate into something game-changing on the pitch? Red-card fiasco aside, he's still hardly proven himself a dead cert for our starting 11.

Interesting food for thought.... we've talked about the toxic elements in the team being moved on and about the players that were big factors in the team that got relegated - Grealish seems to fly under the radar when these kind of discussions happen but maybe actually he's being let off lightly.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by 4BetLite on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:52 am

VTID85 wrote:I think patience is just wearing very thin. All we hear is how much potential he's got, but how often does that translate into something game-changing on the pitch? Red-card fiasco aside, he's still hardly proven himself a dead cert for our starting 11.

Interesting food for thought.... we've talked about the toxic elements in the team being moved on and about the players that were big factors in the team that got relegated - Grealish seems to fly under the radar when these kind of discussions happen but maybe actually he's being let off lightly.

Totally agree and I bet the barstad shops at asda.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by De Kuip on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:31 pm

....sort of cad who like to sleep in his vest.......
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Boldfinger on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:45 pm

the trouble is that Jack Grealish belives all the hype about Jack Grealish.
he needs to pull his head out of his arse and start playing football, im afraid that if he dont realise this sooner rather than later his career at the top will be over as none of the top teams will want him and he will spend his days like the Moore brothers and others playing in the lower divisions.

time to get back to business Jack, this is the most important time of your career - make or break?
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by De Kuip on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:26 am

time people stopped making excuses for him - the "he's only 21..." card just cannot be played anymore.

Six reasons why I have no patience with Grealish:

1. Josh Onomah, Spurs, 19.
2. Mason Holgate, Everton, 20.
3. Zach Clough, Forest, 21.
4. Andre Green, Villa, 18.
5. George Hirst, Sheff Wed, 17.
6. Callum Camps, Rochdale, 21.

All working their socks off, all coming up with the goods, all have a great attitude.

I've tried to use examples from across the divisions - it would be easy to say "Jesus, man City, 19." but he's such an amazing genius that it wouldn't be fair to use him as a comparator, so I've tried to show a range of young lads going about their business and getting on with their careers.

Nuff said.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Villa_Dan on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:37 am

De Kuip wrote:time people stopped making excuses for him - the "he's only 21..." card just cannot be played anymore.

Six reasons why I have no patience with Grealish:

1. Josh Onomah, Spurs, 19.
2. Mason Holgate, Everton, 20.
3. Zach Clough, Forest, 21.
4. Andre Green, Villa, 18.
5. George Hirst, Sheff Wed, 17.
6. Callum Camps, Rochdale, 21.

All working their socks off, all coming up with the goods, all have a great attitude.

I've tried to use examples from across the divisions - it would be easy to say "Jesus, man City, 19." but he's such an amazing genius that it wouldn't be fair to use him as a comparator, so I've tried to show a range of young lads going about their business and getting on with their careers.

Nuff said.

Agreed.

Amavi is also only 22 and is living away from home, I know his performances haven't been great but his attitude is miles from Jack's.
Baker was making Premier League appearances for us aged 20.
Milner was 19 during his loan spell with us before signing.

Grealish just isn't doing it. But he came through the academy so, like Flabby, will be given about 315 2nd chances by the fans who will refuse to accept any criticism of the new golden boy.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Wriggle on Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:05 am

All players come of age at different times in their career and I'm sure if I had the time I could come up with a list just as impressive to prove it.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by De Kuip on Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:59 am

Wriggle wrote:All players come of age at different times in their career and I'm sure if I had the time I could come up with a list just as impressive to prove it.

Go on then.

*Pulls up chair.....
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Villa_Dan on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:06 pm

It isn't just a case of Grealish coming of age in terms of ability. It's mentality - on and off the pitch behaviour and decision making. 

There's dozens of players who only really made the grade "late" in their careers but were they making the news for red cards and partying?
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Con on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:24 am

De Kuip wrote:
Wriggle wrote:All players come of age at different times in their career and I'm sure if I had the time I could come up with a list just as impressive to prove it.

Go on then.

*Pulls up chair.....

Gareth Bale at Spurs. Antonine Griezemann at Real Sociedad hadn't proved anything until he was 22-23.

I don't think criticism of Grealish is unwarranted but it needs to be constructive.

In Grealish's creative position a little more experience is even more important for his development.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by De Kuip on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:17 pm

Con wrote:
De Kuip wrote:
Wriggle wrote:All players come of age at different times in their career and I'm sure if I had the time I could come up with a list just as impressive to prove it.

Go on then.

*Pulls up chair.....

Gareth Bale at Spurs. Antonine Griezemann at Real Sociedad hadn't proved anything until he was 22-23.

I don't think criticism of Grealish is unwarranted but it needs to be constructive.

In Grealish's creative position a little more experience is even more important for his development.

Rubbish examples - Gareth bale was great at Southampton - even when playing as left back, and he linked up fantastically well with Theo walcott. He made his international debut for wales aged 16. He scored 5 goals in his first season playing as a left back! His first 2 seasons at Spurs, he was plagued by injuries (after scoring 3 goals in his first 4 matches).

And Griezemann!! Not having that - he was great for Real Sociedad and he played for them through their youth system since the age of 14 - he broke through at 18 and helped them win promotion. he was then a regular in the la Liga team, scoring regularly until atletico came in for him on the back of his 20 goal season - yes he was 23 years old, but had been putting in good performances and scoring goals for 5 years prior to that.

Listen, I really want Grealish to be an amazing success at Villa - why wouldn't I - it benefits everyone, all I'm saying is that he needs to buck up, and people need to stop being apologists for him acting - at times - like Billy Big Bollocks.

Nope, you'll have to do better than that mate.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:12 pm

Everyone in our squad need to improve, not just Jack Grealish. We could go through all the players in our squad and say we're losing patience with them because they're not as good as a list of players of a comparable age.

Besides on that list above, I'm not sure any of them have achieved much more than Grealish, maybe Clough albeit at a lower level.

Grealish has been unfortunate that he's come through, into one of the worst Villa sides in living memory. None as hyped as Grealish, but there's an host of other players who've come through our system, been deemed not good enough by both club and fans, and are now either playing in the Premier league or teams doing better than us in the Championship. And I'd rate Grealish better than all of them.

It's not just players who've come through our youth to be fair, Sanchez, Veretout and Gil, all doing well this season. I haven't got the answer but there's something fundamentally wrong at the club that's stopping players from performing, unless your name's Kodjia or Benteke.

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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by De Kuip on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:48 pm

I guess there's just some of us that have one view of Grealish and others (probably the vast majority compared to me) that have a more positive or forgiving view.
When all's said and done some of us like certain players and some of us don't.
I just don't rate Grealish and never have - he's in the "Flatters to deceive" category for me.
Please let him prove me wrong and change my mind over the next couple of seasons...please.....I'll be the first to say I was wrong.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by De Kuip on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:52 pm

Oh, and DBA - I didn't choose that list to say they were better than Grealish - as I plainly pointed out - otherwise I'd have started with Jesus, moved on to Delle Alli/Dier/Stones and half a dozen who not only have a better attitude than jack but blitz him in what they provide. I was trying to show that here were a bunch of lads with a great attitude getting on with being professional footballers at all levels - don't remember seeing them lying in the gutter in Spain or inhaling NO2
I'm gonna leave this thread alone now cos I'm wasting my time.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by VillaBill on Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:41 pm

We are all agreed I think Grealish does have a certain something that makes him stand out, he seems to glide past people without having an obvious trick, but, and its a big but, he has no end product , IMO, patience is beginning to wear a little thin!
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Trotters on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:09 am

I look at him and think he's a young lad and he does the silly things that yound lads do. But then with senior players at the club like Elphick, with players like Kodjia who (if his twitter feed is anything to go by) is a class gentleman, with a manager like Bruce who's seen it all, you'd think he'd have taken on-board the guidance that has been certainly given to him not only by folks like the abovementioned but also by whatever official department the club have for advising young kids with a shitload of money, a shitload of time and a shitload of dickhead mates.

For some reason, none of this seems to be sinking in with Grealish. Again, yes he's young. But if he really wants to make it big and make the big dollars then he can't have a normal life and he can't have the silly ways that kids his age do. Of course, the compensation for this is huge! More than a fair trade.

But I think a lot of it comes down to his bell-end agent who is constantly in his ear telling him he's the next big thing and, I feel pretty certain, is undoing whatever work the club is putting in.

His potential is massive. Almost unlimited. But I'll be surprised if he achieves any kind of greatness because by the time he finally figures out how privileged he's been, it'll be too late.

I hope he proves me wrong.
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by The Utterer on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:16 am

I just see a naive young guy with good potential but who has attitude issues tbh.

I do think he's slowly improving actually but he still has his uncontrollable moments and he should be largely past them by now with the coaching staff he has working with him who presumably know what they're doing.

As they say "Your attitude determines your altitude" and this is so true. A bad attitude holds you back end of! That is exactly what we are seeing in Jack if you ask me. Maybe someone can give him a copy of "Attitude is Everything" to read?
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Wriggle on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:28 am

apart from his antics a couple of summer ago what has he done terrible off the pitch since then? i can only remember one hotel incident on his birthday??? was there others i've missed or are people going to label him the bad boy for the next 10 years based on this?
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Wriggle on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:33 am

De Kuip wrote:
Wriggle wrote:All players come of age at different times in their career and I'm sure if I had the time I could come up with a list just as impressive to prove it.

Go on then.

*Pulls up chair.....

I''\ll take the lazy option and let google do it for me...

http://www.thesportster.com/soccer/top-15-late-bloomers-in-soccer-history/

Some decent names in there... Drogba, Klose, Wright
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Trotters on Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:03 am

Wriggle wrote:apart from his antics a couple of summer ago what has he done terrible off the pitch since then? i can only remember one hotel incident on his birthday??? was there others i've missed or are people going to label him the bad boy for the next 10 years based on this?

Off the pitch I really couldn't give two fucks about provided he's delivering on the pitch. But he's not. Oh he'll have the odd fleeting moment of decent-ness but that's all undermined by the stupid stuff like his little kick-out against the Wolves player that got him suspended. And the stupidity last week that saw him sent off and us lose the game. Imagine if we did go on some amazing unbeaten run (yeah, I know...LOL) but then missed out on the play-offs by one point???
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by Villa_Dan on Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:55 am

Wriggle wrote:apart from his antics a couple of summer ago what has he done terrible off the pitch since then? i can only remember one hotel incident on his birthday??? was there others i've missed or are people going to label him the bad boy for the next 10 years based on this?

Off the pitch he's been chucked out of a hotel for partying, photo'd doing "hippy crack," photo'd lying on the deck in Spain, caught out on the piss in Liverpool after Villa got a drubbing.

On the pitch is the bigger issue - this season: 6 yellow cards, 1 red, and a 3 game ban for the stamp at Wolves. The return? 3 goals, 2 assists. Last season: 2 yellows, 1 goal. Season before: 1 yellow, 1 red. Before that he was on loan at Notts County: 5 goals, 7 assists, 9 yellow cards.

He's got a serious disciplinary issue. 4 seasons spread across the top 3 leagues in England and he's more cards than goals and assists combined. I could look beyond it if he was a combative, tough tackling midfielder. He isn't, he's a #10
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Re: Jack Grealish

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:28 am

His cause probably isn't helped by the fact that he's meant to be a No.10, and the ball is often hoofed over his head, and we often only have about 30% of possession of the ball.

That and the fact that he's in and out of side and asked to play different positions, as are other players, so it's hard for them to develop understandings on the pitch between each other.

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