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January '17 Transfer Window

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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by avfc forever on Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:46 am

I would like to see another midfielder or two come in the next transfer window.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Dazzle on Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:57 pm

Rumour of another GK, possibly Westwood from SW. Not an area that I think we need to concentrate on yet, Gollini seems to be growing into the position with every game and can only improve imo. Westwood would want to be No1 if he came and dropping Gollini wouldn't help him. I'd rather we concentrate on a RB and a couple of CMs. They for me are the immediate concern, anything else a nice bonus.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by jimbop on Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:06 pm

Dazzle wrote:Rumour of another GK, possibly Westwood from SW. Not an area that I think we need to concentrate on yet, Gollini seems to be growing into the position with every game and can only improve imo. Westwood would want to be No1 if he came and dropping Gollini wouldn't help him. I'd rather we concentrate on a RB and a couple of CMs. They for me are the immediate concern, anything else a nice bonus.

waiting for all the comments saying" not another focking westwood"

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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by De Kuip on Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:16 pm

I don't know, my comment would be along the lines of:

"Thank Christ that there will be a Westwood on the teamsheet that doesn't cause my to beat my forehead repeatedly against the seat in front of me, and eat the match day programme as a cry for help".

Yep, that would be my comment......
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by jimbop on Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:27 pm

De Kuip wrote:I don't know, my comment would be along the lines of:

"Thank Christ that there will be a Westwood on the teamsheet that doesn't cause my to beat my forehead repeatedly against the seat in front of me, and eat the match day programme as a cry for help".

Yep, that would be my comment......

the poor focker will get mistakenly booed every game when his names read out

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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Joppe84 on Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:52 pm

According to local Sheffield media it's talk of £ 6 million for Westwood. Can we even do that within FFP?

Whatever money we have must go into central midfield. Gollini is superb anyway. Makes no sense with Westwood.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by VillaBill on Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:26 pm

We don't need to spend £6m on a GK, yes Gollini does flap now & again but I think a young goalkeeper needs backing, I think he is adequate.
RB agreed is a problem area as is central midfield, most fans can see it, im sure Bruce has seen it
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:29 pm

Joppe84 wrote:Digging a hole when you are comparing a midtable championship players to Barcelona, arguably one the best midfields to be assembled, in a different League with an utterly different style of play. Right on. Utter drivel.

Surprise surprise AGAIN you've missed the point!!. Rolling Eyes

We were talking about THE SIZE of midfielders!!..it was nothing to do with the ABILITY of the midfielder. So please fathom that if you wish to continue this debate as you're simply making no sense whatsoever.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:41 pm

Anyway I don't see us spending 6m on a goalkeeper at all. Especially when Gollini looks like he's found some good form now. Maybe we'll get in a keeper on loan like the lad from Man Utd but I'd say that will be it.

I agree a new right-back would be nice and also a central midfielder who can compliment Jedi is desperately needed.

Apart from those areas though I really think adding attacking players is of paramount importance. Grealish, Ayew, Adomah and Kodjia is a mouthwatering prospect but the fact is we've only scored more than one goal in a game four times in seventeen games. That needs to improve as soon as possible if we want to go up this season.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Joppe84 on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:08 pm

AstonThriller wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Digging a hole when you are comparing a midtable championship players to Barcelona, arguably one the best midfields to be assembled, in a different League with an utterly different style of play. Right on. Utter drivel.

Surprise surprise AGAIN you've missed the point!!. Rolling Eyes

We were talking about THE SIZE of midfielders!!..it was nothing to do with the ABILITY of the midfielder. So please fathom that if you wish to continue this debate as you're simply making no sense whatsoever.

You really don't have a point. You claim Bannan and Westwood aren't a liability in midfield due to their size, but anyone that watches English football know they are. You then go on trying to defend your utter bizarre claim by drawing examples from another league, with totally different football culture and style of play and while doing it you pick the worlds best midfielders as examples. It's just absurd. English football still is, just like Scandinavian, a football league where primary attributes like pace, strength, height etc. is more prioritized than technique and passing which are fundamentals of the total football philosophy.

Now I'm expecting another strawman from you, but lets just agree to disagree.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by jimbop on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:35 am

AstonThriller wrote:
Joppe84 wrote:Digging a hole when you are comparing a midtable championship players to Barcelona, arguably one the best midfields to be assembled, in a different League with an utterly different style of play. Right on. Utter drivel.

Surprise surprise AGAIN you've missed the point!!. Rolling Eyes

We were talking about THE SIZE of midfielders!!..it was nothing to do with the ABILITY of the midfielder. So please fathom that if you wish to continue this debate as you're simply making no sense whatsoever.

he doesent EVER miss the point, things are purposely said to get a reaction, remember when Dr T was announced ......

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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by DaveAV1 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:39 am

I think with Steer having a long term injury we are in the market for a back up gk. This is of course a difficult position to fill. Goal keepers rarely get rotated and so you're asking a bloke to sit on the bench unless there's an injury. Ideally you find a good up and coming player who is prepared to bide his time, but the problem is if he's called up on at a crucial part of the season (i.e. Anytime from August to May!), and he's not ready then you have a big problem.

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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Joppe84 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:52 am

DaveAV1 wrote:I think with Steer having a long term injury we are in the market for a back up gk. This is of course a difficult position to fill. Goal keepers rarely get rotated and so you're asking a bloke to sit on the bench unless there's an injury. Ideally you find a good up and coming player who is prepared to bide his time, but the problem is if he's called up on at a crucial part of the season (i.e. Anytime from August to May!), and he's not ready then you have a big problem.

With Gollini, Bunn we're more than set in this division. In case of injury we should just use an academy keeper. Isn't that Sarkic bloke half decent?
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by DaveAV1 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:03 pm

I don't think it's a priority and I suppose Bunn isn't bad as back up. Midfield the priority, closely followed by central defence. Baker has been great, but surely with his injury record we should be a little nervous. Richards is hopefully on his way to Turkey, so that frees up a wage.

We've been linked with an Icelandic guy who's currently at Cardiff. A right back who also plays in central midfield, buy one get one free. It's probably only the press looking to link us with them because of Saturday's game.

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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by AstonThriller on Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:16 pm

Joppe84 wrote:

You really don't have a point. You claim Bannan and Westwood aren't a liability in midfield due to their size, but anyone that watches English football know they are.
LOL the more you yap the worse it gets. Firstly Bannan is currently playing in the midfield of a team who was just in the play-off finals last season and are currently higher than us!!..but you obviously know more than the Sheff Wed manager right?  Laughing  



You then go on trying to defend your utter bizarre claim by drawing examples from another league, with totally different football culture and style of play and while doing it you pick the worlds best midfielders as examples.
Again utter crap. You didn't say "English midfielders"..you said Carroll was a "midget midfielder" and implied that smaller midfielders won't cut it. So I merely pointed out that you're talking absolute crap because Barcelona's midfielders are mostly on the small side. The fact is you belittled a player due to size and now when your theory is proven to be wrong you want to move the goalposts which is quite childish tbh and reveals your desperation.



It's just absurd. English football still is, just like Scandinavian, a football league where primary attributes like pace, strength, height etc. is more prioritized than technique and passing which are fundamentals of the total football philosophy.
Another load of rubbish. Febragas, Denis Wise, Makalele, Scholes etc were not big midfielders but yet flourished in English football!!..but no doubt you'll tell me they were all "six foot five" now because those names don't suit your flawed argument!!!.

Oh and btw according to you Kante wouldn't be good enough for us either because he's short too!!!....


Last edited by AstonThriller on Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by FoxyAV on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:29 pm

We already have De Laet, I assume if we're in for a RB it's going to be on loan to the end of the season. If we get a couple more midfielders we'll have Bacuna as backup for RB. It does seem it's time to wave bye bye to Hutton and Richards.

Alternatively, who plays at RB in the U23s?
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Joppe84 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:04 pm

AT wrote:LOL the more you yap the worse it gets. Firstly Bannan is currently playing in the midfield of a team who was just in the play-off finals last season and are currently higher than us!!..but you obviously know more than the Sheff Wed manager right?  Laughing  

Firstly, just cut out the attitude and smileys. Passive aggressive shite while posting gets you nowhere. Secondly to the claim your're making here. He's in a decent team, no doubt. Would they have done better with a proper midfielder though? That's the question. Even ignoring that question both Bannan and Westwood have been tried and tested in the Premier League. They didn't cut it.

AT wrote:Again utter crap. You didn't say "English midfielders"..you said Carroll was a "midget midfielder" and implied that smaller midfielders won't cut it. So I merely pointed out that you're talking absolute crap because Barcelona's midfielders are mostly on the small side. The fact is you belittled a player due to size and now when your theory is proven to be wrong you want to move the goalposts which is quite childish tbh and reveals your desperation.

Once again. Try and discuss the topic. The strawman arguments are just too infantile to bother with.
Yes, short central midfielders are a liability in the English game - as more often than not they demand you to play a certain tactic and 442 is close to impossible unless the player is of unusual high quality.

There will ALWAYS be exceptions, as Fabregas, but these players more often than not are world class in another aspect of the game. We are here talking of Bannan, Westwood and Carroll and they are world class at nothing. Makelele and Kante are actually shorter than Westwood, albeit taller than Bannan. Difference is that they are world class in terms of intencity, ball winning, tackles, strength, balance. All fundamentally physical attributes. These attributes are important in the English game. The fact that Westwood or Bannan can hit a decent pass once every 25 minutes is hugely irrelevant when they get overrun due to being a couple of weak pansies. Thus they are poor options in midfield.

Even championship standard decent player like Bannan has to have a team built around him, to not get overrun. This point was made by Sheffield fans after their match against Hull and we see the same in our seasons where we have to run a 3 man midfield to survive with Westwood. The stature of these players are a massive handicap.

AT wrote:Another load of rubbish. Febragas, Denis Wise, Makalele, Scholes etc were not big midfielders but yet flourished in English football!!..but no doubt you'll tell me there were all "six foot five" now because those names don't suit your flawed argument!!! - Kante bla bla

Covered.

So unless your plan is to buy a small central midfielder that has sufficient quality to hold his own in the English leagues, why even bother doing it. And such a player would never come to us anyway.
Buy a proper physical specimen and be done with it. Fact is that physique and primary physical attributes are essential in "Germanic" leagues. It's just how it is. You may find a player that has the ability to work around it, but most likely you're just gimping yourself.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by AstonThriller on Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:09 pm

Joppe84 wrote:

Firstly, just cut out the attitude and smileys. Passive aggressive shite while posting gets you nowhere. Secondly to the claim your're making here. He's in a decent team, no doubt. Would they have done better with a proper midfielder though? That's the question. Even ignoring that question both Bannan and Westwood have been tried and tested in the Premier League. They didn't cut it.
I'll start by saying I'll post exactly how I want to post as long as it's in accordance with the forum rules thank you very much. If you don't like what you're reading then you're welcome to digress any particular post of mine that you take issue with. As for your point..well you're merely speculating again aren't you? The fact is Bannan is holding down a position in a midfield of a side that is doing very well in the championship, therefore proving your notion about short midfielder wrong. It's as simple as that. Also what has the premiership got to do with Bannan and Westwood? They aren't playing in the premiership right now so that's a futile point.



Once again. Try and discuss the topic. The strawman arguments are just too infantile to bother with.
Yes, short central midfielders are a liability in the English game - as more often than not they demand you to play a certain tactic and 442 is close to impossible unless the player is of unusual high quality.
Er Kante and Drinkwater just won the title whilst playing together in a 442!!!..neither are six foot tall so again your theory just doesn't hold weight.  



There will ALWAYS be exceptions, as Fabregas, but these players more often than not are world class in another aspect of the game. We are here talking of Bannan, Westwood and Carroll and they are world class at nothing. Makelele and Kante are actually shorter than Westwood, albeit taller than Bannan. Difference is that they are world class in terms of intencity, ball winning, tackles, strength, balance. All fundamentally physical attributes. These attributes are important in the English game. The fact that Westwood or Bannan can hit a decent pass once every 25 minutes is hugely irrelevant when they get overrun due to being a couple of weak pansies. Thus they are poor options in midfield.
Well firstly you do understand that Villa are currently IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP right? So a short midfielder doesn't have to be "world class" to prosper as Bannan is proving. What's clear though is you keep moving the goalposts...YOU claimed short midfielders can't cut it in English football and now when presented with several names you say "well they are world class"..but again this was never about a players ability it was about their physical structure. Furthermore how many times have you seen Carroll play then? I've seen him a fair few times and IMO he'd be the best passer of the ball at the club if he came here and he'd add to our threat going forward because he's always looking for a forward pass instead of going sideways all the time like Mr Westwood.



Even championship standard decent player like Bannan has to have a team built around him, to not get overrun. This point was made by Sheffield fans after their match against Hull and we see the same in our seasons where we have to run a 3 man midfield to survive with Westwood. The stature of these players are a massive handicap.
Can you provide the evidence of what Sheff Wed fans said after their match against Hull? Because it seems to me that you're just making things up to suit your argument. Also Sheff Wed haven't "built" anything around Bannan. Infact it's the opposite as he was used to playing in three-man midfielders and he was forced to adapt to a 442 system.



So unless your plan is to buy a small central midfielder that has sufficient quality to hold his own in the English leagues, why even bother doing it. And such a player would never come to us anyway.
Buy a proper physical specimen and be done with it. Fact is that physique and primary physical attributes are essential in "Germanic" leagues. It's just how it is. You may find a player that has the ability to work around it, but most likely you're just gimping yourself.
Well I do think Carroll would come to us actually and he'd do just fine. I mean do you actually understand what you're saying? He's good enough for Spurs's squad but not good enough for us? I just think that's ridiculous. Kante and Drinkwater blew your theory out of the water last season and I have no doubt we'll continue to see more and more smaller midfielders in the English game do the same thing in the near and distant future.

p.s. btw Jack Colback, who is currently playing for the team running away with the Championship, is only five foot nine too!!..so that's another name added to the list Very Happy .
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Joppe84 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:07 pm

I actually covered Kante's attributes in the post above, but it really doesn't matter as you seem to write your replies before you actually read what's been written.

I'll see if I can find the owlstalk posts when I'm back from this business trip.

Aside from that, lets just agree to disagree.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by AstonThriller on Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:12 pm

Joppe84 wrote:I actually covered Kante's attributes in the post above, but it really doesn't matter as you seem to write your replies before you actually read what's been written.

I'll see if I can find the owlstalk posts when I'm back from this business trip.

Aside from that, lets just agree to disagree.

Actually much of what I said about Kante was about his partnership with Drinkwater that won the title. So I'd suggest you practice reading a few post yourself in the near future .
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Joppe84 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:22 pm

Okay. You are right about it all.

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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Trotters on Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:15 pm

I have to say I would prefer our team be full of taller, physically imposing, athletic players rather than what seems to be a rather short side.

Having said that, I think you can EASILY get away with a short guy in central midfield provided he has the quality and has a central midfield partner that's a bit more imposing and better in the air. Jedinack would be that player so I have no issues with getting in a "midfield dynamo".

My concerns are when we have Grealish, Amavi, Chester, Gabby and Westwood all on the pitch. They're not exactly a scary bunch are they? Gabby has a bit of fight in him as does Chester but we've all seen Westwood pull out of tackles and I'm not sure Grealish knows how to put his foot in. So yes, adding a smaller midfielder to that mix isn't going to make us an intimidating side to play against.

So from my view, you're both right in your arguments. To say a smaller midfielder can't be effective unless he's world class is a bit silly. But you can't have them all over the pitch and I do feel that, as it stands, we are a bit lightweight overall.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Saunders82 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:32 pm

When it comes to talking about diminutive midfielders and whether they are good/strong enough or effective, I can only say Billy Bremner, "Nobby" Styles, Trevor Hockey NOW they put the fear of McGrath into many footballers.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by Saunders82 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:37 pm

When we signed Trevor Hockey I thought Jeeeez, saw his first game at VP, I think it was against Fulham, one of their players raced into our half early on and he stopped him in his tracks came away with the ball, the player went down and never moved they had to carry him off on a stretcher, we had some steel in our midfield from then on.
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Re: January '17 Transfer Window

Post by WendyOz on Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:11 pm

Joppe and Aston Thriller. Banter is banter but ffs cease the preponderance of preposterous prolixities....
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