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THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

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THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by AstonThriller on Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:29 pm

TIM SHERWOOD ON OCTOBER 3RD 2015

“I will use the international break to get my players fitter because they are not fit enough yet to play the way I want them to play. For some of them it will be like a mini pre-season.”
Link



REMI GARDE ON DECEMBER 22ND 2015

Asked whether his new side were not fit enough he said: "Yes, I felt that but I don't want to judge what happened before.

"It was just my feeling that we could improve a little bit more in this area of the game because it's very important in this country.

"You have a lot of duels and the rhythm and the pace is very high and I feel we have improved a lot.

"When I arrived someone told me that the team was last in terms of running on statistics.

"I am not very keen on statistics because they can say one thing and you can find another statistic to prove the opposite so I am very careful with stats.

"But nevertheless you have to look at it and I know that we have improved in this area."
Link



ERIC BLACK ON APRIL 14TH 2016

Black said: “After last week I sat down with Gabby on Monday and we agreed to put in place a fitness regime to get him up to speed. I can only control the elements I can control. I have to try to get the best out of the squad I have got and we agreed he wasn’t in a condition to be involved.

“I can only assess people in training and in matches, I can only control those elements. I can’t do the running, that’ll be up to Gabby, it’s his responsibility. In the last 10 days I have identified various things and that’s one of them.

“When I’m in this position I’m going to treat it the way I want to, if they don’t want to train properly, be part of the group or be ready to perform, that’s the only sanction I’ve got.
Link



STEVE BRUCE ON OCTOBER 15TH 2016

The new boss was careful not to be critical of Roberto Di Matteo's regime, but he is clearly not impressed by the conditioning of some of the players he has inherited.

"We tired badly, which was alarming," said Bruce.

"That's the difficulty when you have to make two substitutions through injury.

"But somebody's just told me there's been a lot of that and the previous manager has had a lot of that to deal with. It obviously causes you a problem."

"I can understand now why they concede late," he said. "It's blatantly obvious. We'll go to work on that.

"It's very difficult in this league as obviously we're playing again on Tuesday.

"We'll do everything we possibly can to make us better equipped to go and play in the Championship.

"Because to play in the Championship now you have to have the intensity about your play, just as much as the big league.

"It didn't used to be the case but it is now. With the statistics and the science we've got we've got all the evidence of that and we can prove that to them with where we need to be."
Link

EDIT

This was in 2010 guys

Aston Villa players aren't happy with the new fitness regime of manager Gerard Houllier.

The Mirror says Houllier has been working his players extremely hard at their Bodymoor Heath HQ after taking over in September.

The squad's usual days off were scrapped as he introduced a tough new regime under French fitness coach Robert Duverne.
Link

Also THIS Link has quotes from Luke Young back then and how they had to do double sessions everyday. The first session was fitness based and the second session was technical stuff. I remember at the time it was rumured that Gabby was one of the players who moaned at the tough fitness sessions.

And finally how could we forget this in 2011?....

Robert Duverne has been named as the man at the centre of Aston Villa's infighting as defensive duo James Collins and Richard Dunne are set to discover the extent of their punishment for being involved in a row with coaching staff during a team bonding day.
The French fitness coach was caught up in the storm of France's bitter 2010 World Cup fallout after his bust-up with Patrice Evra in South Africa last summer.

And it understood the 43-year-old, who arrived at Villa Park when Gerard Houllier took charge earlier this season, came under extraordinary criticism from Dunne over his strict training methods during a alcohol-fuelled rant during a meal at the luxury Champney's Spa resort in Leicestershire.
Link



My thoughts

It's been a full YEAR since Sherwood mentioned fitness and still today it's haunting us. Over this period we've had we've had a number of fitness coaches. Michael Watts was with the club from 2013 to June 2016 as a strength and conditioning coach, Remi Garde brought in Duvern too last year and Di-Matteo brought in Marchesi in August, yet this issue still remains?

And the crazy thing is over the course of these statements being made a LOT of players have come and gone but still having a fully fit team on the park has yet to be achieved.

So who do we think are the main culprits where a lack of fitness is concerned? I think one sticks out like a sore thumb and that of course is Jedinak. I also think Mccormack looks a little heavy too, whilst Grealish seems to fade out of games quite a bit. With this in mind it's gonna be very interesting to see how Bruce tries to address this. Personally I think playing a team who has the legs to press and get around the park is one of the first things he'll need to do. I saw a stat today that suggested we were in 15th position when it comes to pressing teams effectively, that needs to drastically improve over the coming weeks I think.

In closing Bruce will also need ask himself whether Marchesi is the man for us where fitness is concerned. If it's not been up to standard, then surely he must take a large portion of the blame here? I hope Bruce has his own coaching staff installed within the next two or three days tbh and a new fitness coach might be just the tonic to get the lads going now.


Last edited by AstonThriller on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Saunders82 on Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:27 pm

Great post sums it up perfectly lol!
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by De Kuip on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:02 pm

As usual mate, excellent post well researched. I think it cannot simply be one element but possibly several. So, to look at a few issues:
Diet. This is probably one of the things that should be in place and working. There's so much evidence regarding what to take and when and it's so embedded in modern sport that I'd be very surprised if this was a problem. It only becomes one when uncontrolled ie players eating and drinking too much of the wrong stuff in their own time.
Basic fitness. I can't believe that the fitness regimes aren't in place that, if followed, would fail to achieve the desired outcomes. As outlined above, this is now the 4th manager in 2 seasons that have directly pointed to this issue and I cannot believe none of them then went on to focus on sorting it. This season especially, the games come thick and fast, and that alone should start to show increased fitness levels - I think Smetro made that point in another thread. If there are still problems throughout the team, then it is very concerning that given all of the above,  allied to the fitness coaches, nutritional experts and team doctors that as a club we still fall short.
Individual's fitness. Right, now I think this is getting closer to the point. Rarely - with the exception of Black re. Gabby,  would a manager - especially one taking over the club,  say that actually, most of our players are fit as,  but the following are fat lazy fuckers.... So I don't think that there's a root and branch issue with fitness or the regime,  I think it's one or two key individuals to blame, and for various reasons. I do think that some will be match rusty due to lack of selection. Some might be carrying a slight knock, but - and I think this is the critical part - I think we have too many ill- disciplined individuals who want an easy ride and to do just enough. I believe that they will not be putting it in at training, possibly boozing, possibly eating crap at times. Any team could carry maybe one player like this, but if we have 3 or 4 and I think we do, then we are in trouble.
I've played in teams where players are bolloxed after an hour and it's fucking hard work putting in the extra to cover them. I wasn't the best player but I reckon I played a couple of divisions higher than my skill level cos I was super fit - in fact I loved the last 30 minutes of games cos it made me look half decent. I'm 53 now and I still ride 200 miles a week on my bike and walk / run another 20 to 30, so there's no excuse for young lads not to be super fit, especially on millions a year ffs.
No, I'm not convinced that it's some deep rooted sinister problem at Villa, I think it's too many big time Charlies coasting on huge salaries. If you've been a teammate of Charles N'Zogbia for a couple of years, or our glorious ex-club captain, why should you feel the need to beast yourself every day in training?
Too many individuals still getting in the team who don't seem to have heard the phrase "train hard, win easy". I do think Bruce will sort them, but again, our paper thin strength in depth means dropping them is more difficult without quality alternatives.
Sorry for the long post, I'm killing time before Poldark comes on!
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Trotters on Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:26 am

Could it be that Remi Garde thought we could play a European tippy-tappy style and that fitness wasn't a huge issue? RDM continued in that vein? The temporary twat that darkened our door should have known better but was obviously spending too much time exchanging paper bags to give a shit so we'll dismiss any input he might have had.

That's the best theory I can come up with to explain why it could be that professional, millionaire athletes aren't particularly athletic.

"Come to Villa", they said. "You'll be paid over the odds", they said. "It's a holiday resort", they said.

No wonder the players were sad to see RDM and his team leave. Hopefully now that Bruce has identified the issue he can fix it. And I'm really hoping that that pick Agbonlahor tries to upset the apple cart again by trying to undermine him. Because I can see SB being very different to all our other soft-cock managers and will quickly sort him out.

Question is, how long will it take to get these cowboys up to match fitness? It won't be a week or two that's for sure.

The next few teams we face will spend 60 mins spraying the ball about getting us to chase it like a dog and then put us to the sword in the last half hour.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Joppe84 on Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:41 am

""Come to Villa", they said. "You'll be paid over the odds", they said. "It's a holiday resort", they said.

No wonder the players were sad to see RDM and his team leave."

Spot on. This and the fact that RDM/Clark brought them in, they were their players and would have been able to continue their holiday with Clarke in charge.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by smetro on Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:44 am

It something nearly all new managers say.....and we have a lot of new managers so it gets heard a lot. Mccormack doesn't look in great shape - Jedinak looks slow. - But thats about it.

Personally I don't think fitness is a big problem - Hell a lot of the players probably spend to much time in the gym outside of training. Many players have personal trainers - and I would imagine are quite into fitness.

Even if it were - Just ramping up the training would be pretty disastrous imo. I do a lot of cycling and the rule of thumb is that you increase your mileage by no more than 10% a week - I ignored this and I got slower on more miles...

few Points from me

1.This a coded message from Brucie "Get you ass into gear in training"

2.IMO part of the problem is we have no system so players run around like headless chickens - thus get tired

3.The idea that the players sit around in training, munch pork scratchings, then slob around watching TV makes great headlines - but I would doubt theres much truth in it.

4.Win a few games and this won't be mentioned.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Barabass on Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:28 am

I seem to recall John Terry pointing out how unfit our players were back in the last season of the MON days. He said that Chelsea were told to let the Villa squad at the time to wear themselves out in the first hour and then up the tempo to finish us off. Since then its always been easy to spot that we only ever play one decent half of a game. We either seem to go easy in the 1st half to conserve energy for the second or go for it in the 1st half, without actually scoring enough goals to see out the match.
During MON's counter attacking days the fitness had less of an adverse effect on the results as their energy was conserved for those bursts of speed against the lesser teams of the time, helped by the fact that we had a solid defence who could break up play and get the ball out to our midfield to begin counter attacking.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:17 am

GUYS I JUST EDITED THE OPENING POST WITH EVEN MORE INFORMATION. IT LOOKS LIKE THIS FITNESS ISSUE HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE HOULLIER DAYS.

At least with Houllier his methods appeared to have worked because we finished that season like a house on fire so maybe double sessions is something Steve should think about?
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:23 am

@smetro wrote:

Personally I don't think fitness is a big problem

The stats last season suggested we were amongst the worst teams in the league where miles run per game was concerned. TWO managers from that season complained about the fitness of the players. This season we are amongst the worst at pressing teams who have the ball and yet another manager has seen deficiencies where fitness is concerned. You might not think it's a problem, but apparently someone who's managed teams for almost twenty years does. I'm more than happy to accept Bruce's opinion on this tbh.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Trotters on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:28 am

@smetro it's not just Mac and Jedinobody. There was a close-up of Chester and he was sucking air hard. He looked properly rooted.

Thing is, the strikers will pick up on it and run him even harder.

Now whilst I only play over45 division 362, there's no way I let the opposition know I'm knackered. When the ball is up the other end and no one is looking, I'll suck air through my ring piece if I have to but when the striker is next to me, I barely fucking breath and will invariably make a comment on how slow the game is.

No way I'm letting some prick know how absolutely totally utterly destroyed I am after 7 minutes Laughing

A lot of it also comes down to the lack of game plan - I mentioned this before. When our players are just chasing the ball like dogs in a park then it's going to hurt after 60 mins. There's a sports psychologist on FB that has said a lot of it comes down to adrenalin especially in those last 30 mins or so: the fans are nervous, the opposition are coming at us and the heart is pumping just standing there.

Not good.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Villa_Dan on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:31 am

Could come down to not having an identity, a philosophy/way of playing. So each time a new manager comes in and asks them to play differently/square pegs round holes, it makes the players look unfit. Soton sign someone and they almost instantly seem to get up to speed, because they fit the style of play
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by smetro on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:47 am

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:

Personally I don't think fitness is a big problem

The stats last season suggested we were amongst the worst teams in the league where miles run per game was concerned. TWO managers from that season complained about the fitness of the players. This season we are amongst the worst at pressing teams who have the ball and yet another manager has seen deficiencies where fitness is concerned. You might not think it's a problem, but apparently someone who's managed teams for almost twenty years does. I'm more than happy to accept Bruce's opinion on this tbh.  

Whats Bruce actually said though ?

"One or two of them could be in better shape" - or something similar. - Quite different to whats being reported in the press.

Sure you can always work on fitness. But I don't really think that our biggest issue at the moment. I think its drilling the players into a formation - that will help with how the players look on the pitch - if we have a system - the players won't need to sprint 60 yards to put a challenge - because an opposing player would never be given that space in the first place.

IMO - Brucie was sending a message to the players to sharpen up. Hes done it pretty well, because he hasn't lambasted the players in public - but the message has got across.

Quote
I don't like to talk about the past for , only what we saw at the beginning when we did physical tests and that was a difference than the level that we had at Southampton," he said.

Ronald Koeman - Everton

Conte has made similar comments at Chelsea



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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by smetro on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:50 am

@AstonThriller wrote:GUYS I JUST EDITED THE OPENING POST WITH EVEN MORE INFORMATION. IT LOOKS LIKE THIS FITNESS ISSUE HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE HOULLIER DAYS.

At least with Houllier his methods appeared to have worked because we finished that season like a house on fire so maybe double sessions is something Steve should think about?

Not unless we want to replicate all the injuries we got that season.

you can't just whack up the intensity. If I recall correctly Houllier said the double sessions were only done for a very short of time in any case. (he was asked about his training methods and injuries)

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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Barabass on Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:36 am

Double training sessions may be the answer to our troubles as it looks as if they are only training for a couple of hours a day. It's not like they'll be asked to be on the go for 10-12 hours a day.

Anyway, I've decided Jedinak's new name should be Jedinackered to fit in with the theme of this thread.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:58 am

@smetro wrote:

Whats Bruce actually said though ?

"One or two of them could be in better shape"  - or something similar. - Quite different to whats being reported in the press.

Didn't you read the article? He said the way the boys tired in the second half was "alarming" and he could "understand why they've conceded so many goals in the last five minutes". That's what he said so I think his views on the team's fitness levels are quite easy to comprehend from those statements.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:07 pm

@smetro wrote:

Not unless we want to replicate all the injuries we got that season.

you can't just whack up the intensity. If I recall correctly Houllier said the double sessions were only done for a very short of time in any case. (he was asked about his training methods and injuries)


What injuries? Young, Downing, Bent etc all finished the season fine from what I can see.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Dazzle on Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:50 pm

You simply cannot deny that fitness endurance, or lack of it, is and has been an issue for quite some time. I think we can proportion a big chunk of the blame to the way, in general, the club was "run" under Randy Lerner, the malaise runs deep after 5 years of drift. An owner that was half committed (at best) dripped down through the tiers and resulted in most staff being employed at Holiday Camp Villa. For me this is basically the hub of the problem. Aston Villa has been left behind quite significantly by many others over the last few years because of the apathy that flowed from the top and trickled down. Nobody has been really that bothered. Just enough has been just good enough for far too long, it eventually caught up with us and kicked us in the arse.
First of all the oil tanker Villa has to be stopped from the direction it is headed, then the course altered. Stopping an oil tanker and turning it isnt easy and might take some time. Bruce will have to be the best he's ever been to get this Villa squad to January in touch of the play-offs, then we have to hope he can get in some of his players (2-3) that will give us some impetus in the new year.
Fitness and endurance is the easiest thing to fix, it should have been a "given" that players were fit enough to compete for 90mins but we clearly can't. Next easiest thing to correct is formation/formations and a disciplined set of players on the pitch, Bruce should be having them in everyday for a couple of weeks to get this sorted asap.
Fitness is the just the first step, the easiest step to take.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by smetro on Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:45 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:

Not unless we want to replicate all the injuries we got that season.

you can't just whack up the intensity. If I recall correctly Houllier said the double sessions were only done for a very short of time in any case. (he was asked about his training methods and injuries)


What injuries? Young, Downing, Bent etc all finished the season fine from what I can see.

What injuries ? - the Houllier Season ? seriously ?

Heres a reminder for you from Nov 2010

A crippling injury crisis has thwarted Villa’s progress of late with the claret and blue side winning just two of the last eight games.

Senior front men Gabby Agbonlahor, John Carew and Emile Heskey have been missing for large chunks of the season, while in midfield the situation has been even worse.

Club captain Stiliyan Petrov and fellow central midfielder Steve Sidwell are both out for the foreseeable future.

Nigel Reo-Coker, who has found his best form under Houllier, is also a few weeks off a return and long-term injury victim Fabian Delph won’t be back until the new year.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:21 pm

@smetro wrote:

What injuries ? - the Houllier Season ? seriously ?

Heres a reminder for you from Nov 2010

A crippling injury crisis has thwarted Villa’s progress of late with the claret and blue side winning just two of the last eight games.

Senior front men Gabby Agbonlahor, John Carew and Emile Heskey have been missing for large chunks of the season, while in midfield the situation has been even worse.

Club captain Stiliyan Petrov and fellow central midfielder Steve Sidwell are both out for the foreseeable future.

Nigel Reo-Coker, who has found his best form under Houllier, is also a few weeks off a return and long-term injury victim Fabian Delph won’t be back until the new year.

How does that prove that it was the double training sessions that caused that though?

Also according to my memory Carew went to Stoke when we signed Bent, so he clearly wasn't in Houllier's plans.

Agbonlahor also played 32 games in all competitions that season, so he was hardly out for most of the season.

Heskey played 25 games that season but was never gonna get into the side ahead of Bent was he?

Petrov played 29 games that season himself, though with us signing Makoun that season was he first choice under Houllier?

Also the likes of Delph and Reo-Coker were always injured back then from what I remember so I'm not sure it had anything to do with double training tbh.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by smetro on Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:21 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:

What injuries ? - the Houllier Season ? seriously ?

Heres a reminder for you from Nov 2010

A crippling injury crisis has thwarted Villa’s progress of late with the claret and blue side winning just two of the last eight games.

Senior front men Gabby Agbonlahor, John Carew and Emile Heskey have been missing for large chunks of the season, while in midfield the situation has been even worse.

Club captain Stiliyan Petrov and fellow central midfielder Steve Sidwell are both out for the foreseeable future.

Nigel Reo-Coker, who has found his best form under Houllier, is also a few weeks off a return and long-term injury victim Fabian Delph won’t be back until the new year.

How does that prove that it was the double training sessions that caused that though?

Also according to my memory Carew went to Stoke when we signed Bent, so he clearly wasn't in Houllier's plans.

Agbonlahor also played 32 games in all competitions that season, so he was hardly out for most of the season.

Heskey played 25 games that season but was never gonna get into the side ahead of Bent was he?

Petrov played 29 games that season himself, though with us signing Makoun that season was he first choice under Houllier?

Also the likes of Delph and Reo-Coker were always injured back then from what I remember so I'm not sure it had anything to do with double training tbh.

Its doesn't. You asked what injuries in 2010'season. I just replied reminding you of them.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:54 pm

@smetro wrote:

Its doesn't. You asked what injuries in 2010'season. I just replied reminding you of them.

Which were grossly exaggerated and doesn't actually prove that they had anything to do with double training sessions, which you inferred that they did.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by smetro on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:07 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:

Its doesn't. You asked what injuries in 2010'season. I just replied reminding you of them.

Which were grossly exaggerated and doesn't actually prove that they had anything to do with double training sessions, which you inferred that they did.

Well no you couldn't prove it - no one could. For the record houllier said it was the worst injury crisis he had ever known in his managerial career.

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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by Trotters on Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:02 am

@AstonThriller....have sent you a PM. You might not have noticed if you're using the mobile version of the site.
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Re: THE FITNESS CHRONICLES!!

Post by AstonThriller on Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:27 pm

@Trotters wrote:@AstonThriller....have sent you a PM. You might not have noticed if you're using the mobile version of the site.

Just saw it and replied Trotters .
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