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The next Villa Manager

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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by Villa_Dan on Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:48 pm

@smetro wrote:
@jimbop wrote:
@Villa_Dan wrote:
@Trotters wrote:Isn't the Alex Ferguson First Year thing a bit of a myth?

Massive one.

Took over in November with the team 21st and in freefall - got them up to 11th. Then finished 2nd in his first full season!

its not a myth at all : At the start of 1990, Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson (long before he was made a Knight of the Realm) was in trouble and his side were struggling at the wrong end of the Division One table. A run of eight games without a win saw the once-great Red Devils staring relegation in the face. The accepted story is that Ferguson would have been sacked if they had been knocked out of the FA Cup by Nottingham Forest on January 7. The game proved to be a reprieve from those calling for his head, but - possibly until the recent 6-1 hammering by rivals Man City - the time remains by his own admission his 'darkest period' as a manager.

He joined them in 1986 - and he did well in first season - as Dan says - so the 'first season' was a myth as he actually did quite well. It was a few years later in 1989/90 - when he hit the low point and was reported to be game away from the sack - but survived and the rest is history.

Theres really no comparison to RDM though. Fergie got an initial bounce - and didn't really hit rock bottom until 3 season later. RDM has got no initial bounce - and hasn't been here 3 seasons. Fergie also had a glittering career at Aberdeen as evidence of what is capable of - Whilst RDM has the odd highspot on cv - there is nothing like what fergie acheived at Aberdeen.


Thank you! 

Everyone acts like Fergie came in, did shit but was given time. Lies!!

He saved the team from relegation then took them to 2nd the season after before struggling in his 3rd season.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by Villa Ranger on Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:22 pm

@DelboyVilla wrote:
@jimbop wrote:I cant actually believe there is a thread for this, hope RDM not reading this.  you would think weve lost every game.

I hope he's not reading the Mirror either because they are speculating that he has one more game?

Also the Sun were also speculating that Bruce will be his likely replacement?

This thread has been justified by news reports.

I can understand why there is speculation whether I agree with it or not. Points have been inexcusably thrown away this season a lot of which were down to poor tactical decisions which ultimately falls at RDM's door.

Totally agree Jimbop. This thread is madness. I thought it would have been tempered slightly after Saturday's 2nd half performance against a team most people think are nailed-on to win the League.

All the idiot supporters of other teams who are trolling the Doctor's Twitter feed would absolutely love us to hit the panic button and plunge the club into chaos yet again, instead of quietly getting on with the business of getting the new signings to gel, and start turning draws into wins.

And Delboy, this thread is not justified by news reports.

If anything, in this day and age, the lazier journo's go looking on forums like this to gauge the mood of fans and find stories to make up. I said at the start, this thread should be deleted and I stand by that.

I think RDM's tactics & formation 1st half against Newcastle were a bit conservative / over respectful. Once we dispensed with the back 3 and attacked them, it was a different game.

Conservative tactics are employed by fearful managers. Fear comes from pressure. Pressure comes from, amongst other things, us, the fans.

Its easy for us to throw opinions around on here because we never ever believe they will influence anything that happens on the field of play, but I'm not so sure. Forums and social media give owners and managers a hotline to the mood of the fans, and I just think RDM or any of his staff looking on here, to see a thread entitled "The Next Villa Manager" is over the top, premature and borderline disrespectful.

Nothing personal against you NARLA mate, I like your posts and your contribution to this site. Just my personal feeling.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:49 pm

@smetro wrote:

Actually with a £60m spend. My aspirations were higher than drawing games in the championship. So in that respect we are in a poor predicament (and when we sacked sherwood we were in the rz on goal difference). Yes I would have preferred Pearson over RDM - thats looking a bit a ropey at the moment !!!!. I would agree though it would be a miracle though if RDM gets this team promoted. Maybe I have it wrong again - But IMO hes not the man for us.

Yes we're drawing and it's frustrating but how many teams get thrown together overnight and just click into gear straight away? Is it a coincidence that most of the teams at the top right now are settled sides? We have to remember that most of our signings weren't with the squad in pre-season so in essence they are learning to play with each other in these championship games. He clearly has to start winning games but to write off a bloke this early is pretty frivolous imo. The truth is he had the best CV of any manager we could have attracted to the Championship and we need to give him a little more time before knives get sharpened.


Last edited by AstonThriller on Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by smetro on Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:36 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:

Actually with a £60m spend. My aspirations were higher than drawing games in the championship. So in that respect we are in a poor predicament (and when we sacked sherwood we were in the rz on goal difference). Yes I would have preferred Pearson over RDM - thats looking a bit a ropey at the moment !!!!. I would agree though it would be a miracle though if RDM gets this team promoted. Maybe I have it wrong again - But IMO hes not the man for us.

Yes we're drawing and it's frustrating but how many teams get thrown together overnight and just click into gear straight away? Is it a coincidence that most of the top at the top right now are settled sides? We have to remember that most of our signings weren't with the squad in pre-season so in essence they are learning to play with each other in these championship games. He clearly has to start winning games but to write off a bloke this early is pretty frivolous imo. The truth is he had the best CV of any manager we could have attracted to the Championship and we need to give him a little more time before knives get sharpened.

The manager at wolves came in 2 days before the season started - has since signed 13 players. he doesn't seem to be floundering as much as RDM.

Also RDM chose to delay a squad overhaul so he could assess the squad in a pre season training camp (his words not mine) - he spoke early on 'getting a difficult dressing room to work together' - then appeared to change his mind ! - so some of not having a full pre season with the players was through his choices.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by smetro on Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:41 pm

Guardian and Telegraph reporting he is on borrowed time now.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by danclare82 on Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:43 pm

Maybe big Sam will be available after this!
https://t.co/a9ArMjtJD5
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:55 pm

@smetro wrote:

The manager at wolves came in 2 days before the season started - has since signed 13 players. he doesn't seem to be floundering as much as RDM.

Also RDM chose to delay a squad overhaul so he could assess the squad in a pre season training camp (his words not mine) - he spoke early on 'getting a difficult dressing room to work together' - then appeared to change his mind ! - so some of not having a full pre season with the players was through his choices.

Aren't several of the Wolves new boys from Benfica- B? So they are used to playing with each other, plus most of the teams he's put out have consisted of players that were already in the squad i.e Bathe, iofra, Doherty, Ikeme, Mason, Coady etc. While Stearman returned to the team too. So they are a little different to having up to seven new players in a team like we have had at times this season.

Right now the top six reads as followed

Norwich= settled side
Huddersfield= settled side
Brighton= settled side
Reading= settled side
Newcastle= Spent big like us but still have Lessells, Dummett, Anita, Shelvey, Perez, Mbemba and Goufran forming the spin of their team.
Birmingham= settled side

So not a single team in the top six have had as much changes to it's first eleven as we have.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by smetro on Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:03 pm

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:

The manager at wolves came in 2 days before the season started - has since signed 13 players. he doesn't seem to be floundering as much as RDM.

Also RDM chose to delay a squad overhaul so he could assess the squad in a pre season training camp (his words not mine) - he spoke early on 'getting a difficult dressing room to work together' - then appeared to change his mind ! - so some of not having a full pre season with the players was through his choices.

Aren't several of the Wolves new boys from Benfica- B? So they are used to playing with each other, plus most of the teams he's put out have consisted of players that were already in the squad i.e Bathe, iofra, Doherty, Ikeme, Mason, Coady etc. While Stearman returned to the team too. So they are a little different to having up to seven new players in a team like we have had at times this season.

Right now the top six reads as followed

Norwich= settled side
Huddersfield= settled side
Brighton= settled side
Reading= settled side
Newcastle= Spent big like us but still have Lessells, Dummett, Anita, Shelvey, Perez, Mbemba and Goufran forming the spin of their team.
Birmingham= settled side

So not a single team in the top six have had as much changes to it's first eleven as we have.

You could argue that some of those teams have a settled side because they don't have the funds to do anything else - Blues for example. Our side may well be more 'settled' if Xia hadn't given us £60m to spend ! . Besides there needs to be a system into which players fit - RDM is still anking about with 3 centre backs, and our new winger at full back - buying a load of attacking players - then setting up defensively....
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:10 pm

John Percy saying Di Matteo has two games to save job

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/09/26/roberto-di-matteo-facing-two-games-to-save-his-job-at-aston-vill/

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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:17 pm

@deadbuzzardalive wrote:John Percy saying Di Matteo has two games to save job

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/09/26/roberto-di-matteo-facing-two-games-to-save-his-job-at-aston-vill/

I was saying four points minimum was needed over these next two games and that seems to be the case. Although I do think Another five games would have been more fair but hey Xia and co don't seem to be in a patient mood right now. I'm sure Wyness, Round and Xia have discussed this because Percy is usually spot on. We saw the same thing with Sherwood and the "two more games" threat after we lost at home to Stoke.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by DelboyVilla on Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:48 am

@Villa Ranger wrote:
@DelboyVilla wrote:
@jimbop wrote:I cant actually believe there is a thread for this, hope RDM not reading this.  you would think weve lost every game.

I hope he's not reading the Mirror either because they are speculating that he has one more game?

Also the Sun were also speculating that Bruce will be his likely replacement?

This thread has been justified by news reports.

I can understand why there is speculation whether I agree with it or not. Points have been inexcusably thrown away this season a lot of which were down to poor tactical decisions which ultimately falls at RDM's door.

Totally agree Jimbop. This thread is madness. I thought it would have been tempered slightly after Saturday's 2nd half performance against a team most people think are nailed-on to win the League.

All the idiot supporters of other teams who are trolling the Doctor's Twitter feed would absolutely love us to hit the panic button and plunge the club into chaos yet again, instead of quietly getting on with the business of getting the new signings to gel, and start turning draws into wins.

And Delboy, this thread is not justified by news reports.

If anything, in this day and age, the lazier journo's go looking on forums like this to gauge the mood of fans and find stories to make up. I said at the start, this thread should be deleted and I stand by that.

I think RDM's tactics & formation 1st half against Newcastle were a bit conservative / over respectful. Once we dispensed with the back 3 and attacked them, it was a different game.

Conservative tactics are employed by fearful managers. Fear comes from pressure. Pressure comes from, amongst other things, us, the fans.

Its easy for us to throw opinions around on here because we never ever believe they will influence anything that happens on the field of play, but I'm not so sure. Forums and social media give owners and managers a hotline to the mood of the fans, and I just think RDM or any of his staff looking on here, to see a thread entitled "The Next Villa Manager" is over the top, premature and borderline disrespectful.

Nothing personal against you NARLA mate, I like your posts and your contribution to this site. Just my personal feeling.

Villa Ranger we will have to just disagree on this point. One of the reasons that I like posting here is that TBAR doesn't have a gang of Nazi style Mods dictating to people how to think and locking threads and banning people if they don't fit into their manifesto? Te whole point of this forum is people can debate and discuss any topic Villa related and if you don't agree a thread is justified then my advice would be don't read it?

Now that people like Percy are reporting 2 more games then I think it adds weight to debate and I think it is a issue to be discussed and as you did in part of your post you are entitled to put your POV as to why he needs more time. To preach to people over what they can discuss is wrong. Also if RDM or his team read this forum and are genuinely affected in performing their job because this thread is here is frankly pathetic!

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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by Trotters on Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:53 am

Guardian are now reporting that he's got 2 games, too.

Could be something in it, could be the media just recycling each other's garbage.

It'll certainly be an interesting week!
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by DelboyVilla on Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:59 am

Percy is usually spot on and very rarely rehashes other journo's stories?

There is some fire with this smoke so it seems?


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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by FoxyAV on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:03 am

@smetro wrote:
@FoxyAV wrote:A few years ago I used to go to watch Reading with my mother (who's a Villa supporter). We had access to free season tickets and it's fairly local so went to see a few games. The seats were in a really rubbish position, so having watched them lose every time I'd been in the autumn of 2011 I could no longer be bothered after sitting in sub-zero temperature watching them lose again at some point in December. They went on to win the league in 2011/2012 but at this time in the season they were in 14th with nine points from three wins (one at home), two draws and four losses. The top six were Southampton, Derby, Middlesborough, West Ham, Brighton and Hull.
By the 31st December they had 39 points, they'd won five of their previous six matches and had won 11, drawn six and lost seven. The top six consisted of Southampton, Middlesborough, West Ham, Cardiff, Reading and Hull.
Come the end of the season they'd won the league with 89 points from 27 wins, eight draws and 11 losses, after going on a massive winning streak with a bunch of players who really weren't better than a mid-table finish. The teams making up the top six were Southampton, West Ham, Birmingham City, Blackpool and Cardiff.

At the exact same point of the season we have the same number of points as Reading did five years ago, albeit in 17th place rather than 14th. We have considerably better players than Reading did, although what RDM has to play with at the moment couldn't be called a settled team. While Brian McDermott was popular he hasn't set the world alight, going on to manage Leeds and Reading again and being fired from the latter and most probably the former too.

I just thought I'd throw this in here. I don't think it's time to panic, I don't think RDM should go before Christmas, but if he does go then, all hope isn't lost.

Interesting. But you couldn't keep RDM in a job because of what Brian Mcdermot did in 2011/2. Realistically you have to go on what you see - and weve won 1 in 9 - despite having a collection of players that would be the envy of most clubs in this division. Sure the football world is littered with these little anecdotes of a manager on the verge of the sack who suddenley turns things around. However there are probably many more clubs who are 17th after 9 games and finish in round about the same position. The 9 games RDM has managed us are the best pointer we have.

My point wasn't about McDermott but about how fickle the Championship table can be. Reading had a rubbish start but pulled it together to win. The fact they did it with an average manager and an average team is remarkable but not what I was getting at.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by Trotters on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:04 am

If he DOES lose both then he deserves to go. No question in my mind.

If we scrape two draws but look good (as in, deserved to win but luck once again wasn't with us) then he might just survive. But I can't see it.

4 points minimum with some clear steps taken on improving the formation and tactics. That's what he needs.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by smetro on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:05 am

@AstonThriller wrote:
@deadbuzzardalive wrote:John Percy saying Di Matteo has two games to save job

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/09/26/roberto-di-matteo-facing-two-games-to-save-his-job-at-aston-vill/

I was saying four points minimum was needed over these next two games and that seems to be the case. Although I do think Another five games would have been more fair but hey Xia and co don't seem to be in a patient mood right now. I'm sure Wyness, Round and Xia have discussed this because Percy is usually spot on. We saw the same thing with Sherwood and the "two more games" threat after we lost at home to Stoke.

I wonder if he might get a while longer myself. The problem with giving him 2 games is that anything could happen in those. So it could blowing a hurricane tonight and we win 1-0 with the wind blowing the ball in the net ! - does that mean we have turned the corner ?

On our two clubs are reportedly sniffing around Bruce - do we jump the gun on RDM so we don't miss out - or do we stumble on for 5 or 6 games - with the odd win\draw\loss - but never really looking convincing.


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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by DelboyVilla on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:08 am

@Trotters wrote:If he DOES lose both then he deserves to go. No question in my mind.

If we scrape two draws but look good (as in, deserved to win but luck once again wasn't with us) then he might just survive. But I can't see it.

4 points minimum with some clear steps taken on improving the formation and tactics. That's what he needs.

And with our team sheet that is the minimum we should expect?

Would people accept a flukey win? Totally undeserved? Or do people expect a convincing performance?

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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by DelboyVilla on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:10 am

AT if Bruce goes somewhere else I wouldn't consider us to have 'missed out'? Dodged a bullet maybe?

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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by AstonThriller on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:27 am

@Trotters wrote:If he DOES lose both then he deserves to go. No question in my mind.

If we scrape two draws but look good (as in, deserved to win but luck once again wasn't with us) then he might just survive. But I can't see it.

4 points minimum with some clear steps taken on improving the formation and tactics. That's what he needs.

If we draw another two, but look good and potentially move up a few places in the table after the Preston game then maybe he might survive but tbh I'm doubtful. Lose tonight and he's on last chance saloon at the weekend methinks. I support the bloke but there's no way I'm gonna defend him if things go from bad to worse over these next two games.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by jimbop on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:32 am

@Villa Ranger wrote:
@DelboyVilla wrote:
@jimbop wrote:I cant actually believe there is a thread for this, hope RDM not reading this.  you would think weve lost every game.

I hope he's not reading the Mirror either because they are speculating that he has one more game?

Also the Sun were also speculating that Bruce will be his likely replacement?

This thread has been justified by news reports.

I can understand why there is speculation whether I agree with it or not. Points have been inexcusably thrown away this season a lot of which were down to poor tactical decisions which ultimately falls at RDM's door.

Totally agree Jimbop. This thread is madness. I thought it would have been tempered slightly after Saturday's 2nd half performance against a team most people think are nailed-on to win the League.

All the idiot supporters of other teams who are trolling the Doctor's Twitter feed would absolutely love us to hit the panic button and plunge the club into chaos yet again, instead of quietly getting on with the business of getting the new signings to gel, and start turning draws into wins.

And Delboy, this thread is not justified by news reports.

If anything, in this day and age, the lazier journo's go looking on forums like this to gauge the mood of fans and find stories to make up. I said at the start, this thread should be deleted and I stand by that.

I think RDM's tactics & formation 1st half against Newcastle were a bit conservative / over respectful. Once we dispensed with the back 3 and attacked them, it was a different game.

Conservative tactics are employed by fearful managers. Fear comes from pressure. Pressure comes from, amongst other things, us, the fans.

Its easy for us to throw opinions around on here because we never ever believe they will influence anything that happens on the field of play, but I'm not so sure. Forums and social media give owners and managers a hotline to the mood of the fans, and I just think RDM or any of his staff looking on here, to see a thread entitled "The Next Villa Manager" is over the top, premature and borderline disrespectful.

Nothing personal against you NARLA mate, I like your posts and your contribution to this site. Just my personal feeling.


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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by jimbop on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:34 am

@DelboyVilla wrote:
@Trotters wrote:If he DOES lose both then he deserves to go. No question in my mind.

If we scrape two draws but look good (as in, deserved to win but luck once again wasn't with us) then he might just survive. But I can't see it.

4 points minimum with some clear steps taken on improving the formation and tactics. That's what he needs.

And with our team sheet that is the minimum we should expect?

Would people accept a flukey win? Totally undeserved? Or do people expect a convincing performance?

if we get a lucky win there will still be the RDM haters saying "it was just luck, pure luck" they will forget the shit luck weve had

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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by jimbop on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:47 am

@AstonThriller wrote:
@smetro wrote:

Actually with a £60m spend. My aspirations were higher than drawing games in the championship. So in that respect we are in a poor predicament (and when we sacked sherwood we were in the rz on goal difference). Yes I would have preferred Pearson over RDM - thats looking a bit a ropey at the moment !!!!. I would agree though it would be a miracle though if RDM gets this team promoted. Maybe I have it wrong again - But IMO hes not the man for us.

Yes we're drawing and it's frustrating but how many teams get thrown together overnight and just click into gear straight away? Is it a coincidence that most of the teams at the top right now are settled sides? We have to remember that most of our signings weren't with the squad in pre-season so in essence they are learning to play with each other in these championship games. He clearly has to start winning games but to write off a bloke this early is pretty frivolous imo. The truth is he had the best CV of any manager we could have attracted to the Championship and we need to give him a little more time before knives get sharpened.

couldn't have put it better myself matey.  i think its like now that Dr T is obviously not a skint fraud, people turn to RDM and start to call for his head after loosing only twice in 9, lost less games than the team tipped to win the championship.  anyone who has watched this league over the last few years knows it switches and changes every couple of weeks, a run of 2/3 wins puts you back in the race.  like ive said on here before some (not all) posters on here just look for anything to dig at. RDM has gone into a club that has been in bits for years, before he even thought about his formation he has had to try and get rid of the loosing mentality, that in itself is a mountain to climb, especially after only 9 games FFS.

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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by Trotters on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:56 am

I don't know about the term "haters". RDM seems a nice enough bloke. Quiet as hell (maybe this is the problem??) but there's certainly nothing to hate about him.

I'll call myself an RDM Frustrator. And I suspect that's the camp may people might be in. He's got none of the traits of pig-nose, the poison-dwarf, the Mumbler or Jack-the-lad Sherwood that tended to piss fans off. He just seems lost in a job that, for all the money in the world, should be the easiest job in football at the moment.

We can look at the two teams we played twice last season that made us actually look like a real football team and they're both well ahead of us. One is more "settled" with experience in this league and the other has had a revamp under a new manager. We really have to stop waiting for the "gel" to happen and stop making excuses that it's largely a new team. We should be top. Had games ended on 85 minutes I think we probably would be Laughing But the table doesn't lie and we are down the bottom end for a reason. And that reason is, we're kind of clueless. We might be unlucky one week and lucky the next. But when do we start looking professional, slick, clever and ruthless?
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by NARLA24 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:10 am

@Villa Ranger wrote:
@DelboyVilla wrote:
@jimbop wrote:I cant actually believe there is a thread for this, hope RDM not reading this.  you would think weve lost every game.

I hope he's not reading the Mirror either because they are speculating that he has one more game?

Also the Sun were also speculating that Bruce will be his likely replacement?

This thread has been justified by news reports.

I can understand why there is speculation whether I agree with it or not. Points have been inexcusably thrown away this season a lot of which were down to poor tactical decisions which ultimately falls at RDM's door.

Totally agree Jimbop. This thread is madness. I thought it would have been tempered slightly after Saturday's 2nd half performance against a team most people think are nailed-on to win the League.

All the idiot supporters of other teams who are trolling the Doctor's Twitter feed would absolutely love us to hit the panic button and plunge the club into chaos yet again, instead of quietly getting on with the business of getting the new signings to gel, and start turning draws into wins.

And Delboy, this thread is not justified by news reports.

If anything, in this day and age, the lazier journo's go looking on forums like this to gauge the mood of fans and find stories to make up. I said at the start, this thread should be deleted and I stand by that.

I think RDM's tactics & formation 1st half against Newcastle were a bit conservative / over respectful. Once we dispensed with the back 3 and attacked them, it was a different game.

Conservative tactics are employed by fearful managers. Fear comes from pressure. Pressure comes from, amongst other things, us, the fans.

Its easy for us to throw opinions around on here because we never ever believe they will influence anything that happens on the field of play, but I'm not so sure. Forums and social media give owners and managers a hotline to the mood of the fans, and I just think RDM or any of his staff looking on here, to see a thread entitled "The Next Villa Manager" is over the top, premature and borderline disrespectful.

Nothing personal against you NARLA mate, I like your posts and your contribution to this site. Just my personal feeling.
No offence taken my friend, non at all.
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Re: The next Villa Manager

Post by jimbop on Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:30 am

even cock breath Holloway has faith" He told Sky: "Aston Villa may have turned the corner with that second-half equaliser against Newcastle on Saturday, where they finished the game on top.

"If Newcastle had got another goal they would have been struggling, but the crowd came together, they seemed to lift each other and Roberto Di Matteo's side were impressive in that second half.

"I think Villa will forge on from here and it will be tough for Barnsley.

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